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[TheVoidDragon]

Yeah, these days it's easy to get confused over how to even write a list properly - I mean, it's not just a simple force org chart any more, right out of the gate you're looking at unbound, bound, battleforged, primary detachments, combined arms detachments, allied detachments, codex detachments, battlefield roles, formations, dataslates etc, what is and isn't a legal combination, and what the requirements and special rules are. That's already enough to make newcomers go cross-eyed, without even playing yet.

The game is currently collapsing in on itself due to the sheer amount of rules - too many rules brings unnecessary complexity, drags out games making them less fun, and adds extra barriers of entry for newcomers. They need to get back to having a solid, straightforward core set of rules.

On the lore side of things, it's already expanding, but I doubt they'll blow up the universe and build a new setting with some old faces like they did with Fantasy. Instead, I think they'll push a bit closer to complete doom, and I think it'll be fun - I'm pretty excited about the rumours of loyalist primarchs returning for instance.

I really, really hope none of the loyalist primarchs make a return. I think that would be a terrible choice that would let down the whole setting in some ways.

The Primarchs are great characters, and they obviously would have a huge impact on the setting, but that is why bringing them back would be bad. At the moment, the Primarchs are interesting to 40k because you don't know where they are, what happened to them, or even if they're still alive. Once you decide what actually happened, that mystery to them is lost and it becomes just another storyline. Whatever ideas and theories players have come up about the primarchs and what would happen if they returned would be rendered obsolete and that aspect of the setting would be gone entirely. Imagine if Roboute was suddenly perfectly fine and woke up. Maybe he'd lead the Imperium into greatness again, maybe he wouldn't. From an in-universe perspective he would be likely 'better' than pretty much any other character, but to us, he becomes just another plot-forwarding device, now with the mystery to him taken away. Their return would be fun to see for a while, but then eventually it won't be enough and people will just keep wanting more. They eventually become just a typical part of the setting, no different from any of the other characters to us.

The "Things are really bad and look like they're going to get worse" thing is the point of the 40k setting. It's not a story, there is no need to advance things You don't know what's going to happen to the Imperium, or Tyranids, or the Tau, or the Emperor, or the Primarchs or any of these other things, there's a constant dark, grim, hopelessness to it all and keeping that there is what makes the setting interesting. Telling new stories or something like a new campaign is fine, but this whole "they should advance the timeline" (especially with ludicrous things like bringing back the Emperor i've seen some suggest) some people seem to want goes against the whole thing and the reason for it in the first place.

 

[SillyEskimo]

If a Primarch came back, it would not be a good thing. It would actually signal the beginning of the end of days IMO. If a few Primarchs showed up around the same time and a few eldar Phoenix Lords make an appearance, it's all over except for the crying. Well, and a shitload of amazingly epic battles and storytelling. That's what I want. The mystery has been around for 20+ years. I'm ready to see how this plays out.

We already know the order of death of the Phoenix Lords in the eldar's End Time battle, which I always thought was cool in a morbid kind of way.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

If a Primarch came back, it would not be a good thing. It would actually signal the beginning of the end of days IMO. If a few Primarchs showed up around the same time and a few eldar Phoenix Lords make an appearance, it's all over except for the crying. Well, and a shitload of amazingly epic battles and storytelling. That's what I want. The mystery has been around for 20+ years. I'm ready to see how this plays out.

We already know the order of death of the Phoenix Lords in the eldar's End Time battle, which I always thought was cool in a morbid kind of way.

Why? 40K is a setting, the Primarchs being missing and there being no answers or hope for them is part of that setting. It's not a story that's meant to be resolved, the point of it is the mystery. Progressing things that much makes no sense.

It's like with the ending to LOST, once answered it's no longer as interesting and whatever the real answer to the mystery is, it'll never live up to all the theories and ideas fans have came up with.

Hints at the Primarchs returning (E.g., the giant in Trazyn's collection, or the rumours of Khan being forced to fight by the Dark Eldar) are awesome. Actually bringing them would be going too far.

 

[SillyEskimo]

The setting is there to give a narrative to playing the game and as a vehicle to releasing miniatures, books, factions, scenery, scenarios, ect. I want all that stuff. Advancing the overall plot will give me that stuff.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

The setting is there to give a narrative to playing the game and as a vehicle to releasing miniatures, books, factions, scenery, scenarios, ect. I want all that stuff. Advancing the overall plot will give me that stuff.

In what way is advancing the timeline needed for that? The timeline hasn't advanced much in about 30 years yet there been been constant new books, stories, game editions, miniatures and everything else released despite the setting being static. It's not as if the setting has been exhausted as it is and there's no room for improvement.

I'm not against slight advances such as the new chaos Fenris campaign or the Tau expanding more or something like that, but 'solving' the big mysteries like the Primarchs, or what's on Titan, or if the Golden Throne fails would push things too far.

 

[Tacitus_]

I just want them to resolve the battle for Cadia. Beat Abaddon back or have him conquer it - I don't care that much for the details. Just do something with it.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

The setting is there to give a narrative to playing the game and as a vehicle to releasing miniatures, books, factions, scenery, scenarios, ect. I want all that stuff. Advancing the overall plot will give me that stuff.

Well, and a shitload of amazingly epic battles and storytelling. That's what I want. The mystery has been around for 20+ years. I'm ready to see how this plays out.

Exactly. If the new stuff isn't to their taste people can still play at specific times in the 40K universe anyway (30K, 32K, current 40K etc). Some of us older fans would love to see the story progress - I don't buy the argument that it's automatically a bad idea, and knowing GW I'm sure there'll still be plenty of mystery and unanswered questions. Bring it on!

 

[Olengie]

If the End of Times starts, time for another reboot like Age of Sigmar. LOL.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

Exactly. If the new stuff isn't to their taste people can still play at specific times in the 40K universe anyway (30K, 32K, current 40K etc). Some of us older fans would love to see the story progress - I don't buy the argument that it's automatically a bad idea, and knowing GW I'm sure there'll still be plenty of mystery and unanswered questions. Bring it on!

There's a difference between wanting the story (or stories within the setting) to progress and wanting the setting itself to progress, though.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

There's a difference between wanting the story (or stories within the setting) to progress and wanting the setting itself to progress, though.

I want both, and a rules shake-up too.

 

[SillyEskimo]

I want both, and a rules shake-up too.

Me too. And they can also continue to keep expanding on 30k, 40k, and explore every little side story. I want it all.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

Me too. And they can also continue to keep expanding on 30k, 40k, and explore every little side story. I want it all.

If they go beyond 40k to a new era, that would affect 40k in a negative way.

 

[Tacitus_]

If they go beyond 40k to a new era, that would affect 40k in a negative way.

Could, not would. Going from M41 to M42 is not inherently negative.

 

[SillyEskimo]

If they go beyond 40k to a new era, that would affect 40k in a negative way.

But 40k will always exisit even if it was in a historical context ala 30k. For all we know, 40k is already told that way.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

Could, not would. Going from M41 to M42 is not inherently negative.

That isn't what i really meant by era, though. I meant making big changes such as bringing back the primarchs or advancing it by a few thousand years for example, enough of a difference so it's more like a new setting than 40k as we know it. Besides, we've already seen stuff from M42 and nothing seems to have really changed.

But 40k will always exisit even if it was in a historical context ala 30k. For all we know, 40k is already told that way.

Again though, the point of 40k as it is is the whole "things are bad, and look like they are going to get worse" theme. It's always the equivalent of the "end times" in 40k, there's all sorts of problems that could impact the Imperium or rest of the galaxy in a massive way. It's a grim, dark, hopeless setting, with no indication of what's going to happen in the future and how things are going to change, other than whatever it is is probably bad. Advance things, and that aspect of it is gone.

If you make it so 40k becomes a historical setting, you then know if the Tyranids ate everything, if the Necrons reclaimed their Empire, if the Golden Throne Failed, if the Tau were wiped out etc and by telling players if these things are right or wrong, they lose all appeal. Just something like going from M41 to M42 for example wouldn't be big a problem as long as it didn't go very far, but if it was like the difference between 30k and 40k, then 40k loses one of the huge draws to its setting.

 

[Tacitus_]

That isn't what i really meant by era, though. I meant making big changes such as bringing back the primarchs or advancing it by a few thousand years for example, enough of a difference so it's more like a new setting than 40k as we know it. Besides, we've already seen stuff from M42 and nothing seems to have really changed.

Then we are in agreement. I don't want the grimdark to lessen, I just want them to get out of 999.M41. Resolve Cadia. Move the Nids a bit closer to Terra, maybe wake up a few more Necrons. See what sort of impact Ghazghkull had on Octarius.
That sort of thing.

 

[TheSadRanger]

I'm just waiting until June 6th for Master of Mankind.........

Gonna be a long wait ;_;........

 

[Karakand]

Bringing back a primarch was one of the highlights of The Beast Arises. Go watch TWD or something if you want staid, lifeless worlds that have the superficial trappings of grimdark.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

Bringing back a primarch was one of the highlights of The Beast Arises. Go watch TWD or something if you want staid, lifeless worlds that have the superficial trappings of grimdark.

Again, Warhammer 40k is a setting, not a story. The setting should not change. Changing or expanding upon the past doesn't direct affect the W40K setting as we know it, that's nowhere near along the same lines as what moving things forward (As in, with some sort of big lore-changing event) would do.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

One of the major things that I liked about The Beast Aries are the High Lords of Terra. We always get them mention here and there but never have a story in Black Library that directly involves them.

 

[EYEL1NER]

I'm almost through with Eisenhorn. I was slow to get into it but I've been sitting around the hospital for the past two days while my son was born and plowed through several hundred pages. It has gotten pretty good and I'm already bummed about the ending coming. I'm already eyeing the Ravenor Trilogy though as my next read; The Emperor's Gift my need to wait. If I don't get my hands on Ravenor soon though then I'll start the GG series and read a book or two from that, read some more Abnett.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

Developers Phil Kelly and Simon Grant discuss Wrath of Magnus:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvuVWJszF_A

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

I just read Master of Mankind today and I would consider this to be ADB best Horus Heresy novel so far.

 

[Fou-Lu]

What are your favourite Warhammer podcasts/youtube channels/blogs? I mostly just hang out on Dakka and watched Tabletop Minions and Guerrilla Miniature Games.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

For podcast:
Independent Characters
After Ullanor
The Imperial Truth
Mob Rules

 

[Cosmic Schwung]

Does anyone here read Regimental Standard? From the few bits and pieces I saw posted I'd assumed it was a fan thing so I was more than a bit surprised to learn it's GW's. It's like an update to the Infantryman's Uplifting Primer.

 

[EYEL1NER]

Does anyone here read Regimental Standard? From the few bits and pieces I saw posted I'd assumed it was a fan thing so I was more than a bit surprised to learn it's GW's. It's like an update to the Infantryman's Uplifting Primer.

Never heard of it. Looks like good reading though. It would be nice if it came out in a collected hardback or something one of these days.


I finished the Eisenhorn trilogy last night and it was damn good. It suffered from what I've complained of already once in this thread: 40K books wrap up too quickly. The hero doesn't meet and fight the book's villain until the final chapter and then the book is wrapped up in a few pages leaving you with a feeling of "That's it?" The final chapter (or maybe two if I'm lucky) of most 40K books that I have read all look the same: Hero and his retinue reach the location of the villain, they assault the cathedral/planet/underhive/whatever, most of the side characters die, the main fight starts, and the villain dies after a couple paragraphs.
It was really good though. I was so disappointed when I got to the second book's epilogue and read what Gregor did (

Spoiler

summoned Cherubael

) and it seemed like he had become a radical out of nowhere. I didn't remember reading a hung previously that made me think he would do that, it seemed like such a leap. But when I got around to Gregor's talk with Maxilla aboard the Essene in the third book and he is explaining the things he has done that prevents him from asking the Inquisition for assistance, I realized that he truly was a radical from almost the very beginning of the book.
I'd like to track down a copy of the Ravenor trilogy now. After that comes the Bequin trilogy that kicked off with Pariah: Ravenor vs Eisenhorn but who knows when Abnett will get around to writing more of that.

I think I will start the Gaunt's Ghosts book next though and read through a few of those. I wanted to read "The Emporer's Gift next but I read about one of the big characters in that book being a character from the Ravenor books (

Spoiler

the GK Hyperion having been a 14-year old boy in the service of Ravenor

, so I might hold off a bit.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

Up for advance order this weekend:

Hngh!

 

[Browny]

What what what what what?

Itshappening.gif

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Up for advance order this weekend (limited run):



Hngh!

That is pretty good model.

 

[Fou-Lu]

The skull boobs are a bit much for me, but still pretty cool!

 

[SillyEskimo]

Too bad she's the only new mini releasing with the Imperial Agents codex. Myself and others would loved to have seen a revamped Sisters line.

 

[Tizoc]

Pardon my question bt i recently got books 1 and 2 of abbnet's eisenhorn series and want to get more warhammer 40k books but ones centered on space marines

 

[SillyEskimo]

Pardon my question bt i recently got books 1 and 2 of abbnet's eisenhorn series and want to get more warhammer 40k books but ones centered on space marines

Is there a particular chapter you are interested in?

 

[Tizoc]

Is there a particular chapter you are interested in?

Ultramarines i would say but any good stories ft space marines is tine.
Mind u my main exposure tomthe series is the thq game ^^;

 

[Tacitus_]

Ultramarines i would say but any good stories ft space marines is tine.
Mind u my main exposure tomthe series is the thq game ^^;

The Ultramarines omnibus is alright, if you want to keep with the smurfs. If you want more from Dan Abnett, the Iron Snakes novel is excellent. There's also the Space Marine Battles series which is exactly what it says on the tin. They aren't related to each other outside of the theme of Space Marines battling things.

 

[Enosh]

Ultramarines i would say but any good stories ft space marines is tine.
Mind u my main exposure tomthe series is the thq game ^^;

Know No Fear from the Horus Heresy is pretty good, it's basically an action movie in book form, it is like the 20th book in the HH series but it doesn't require too much knowledge of the previous book, except for like one or two minor characters

in general the whole HH series has some good stuff if you like marines

 

[Tizoc]

Thanks gonna wishlist those for now

 

[TheSadRanger]

Angel Exterminatus is also great for having one of the best bad asses in 30k.

He beat the shit out of the best swordsman in the galaxy and it was nothing more to him than a Tuesday.

 

[Tizoc]

The Ultramarines omnibus is alright, if you want to keep with the smurfs. If you want more from Dan Abnett, the Iron Snakes novel is excellent. There's also the Space Marine Battles series which is exactly what it says on the tin. They aren't related to each other outside of the theme of Space Marines battling things.

Which Iron Snakes novels did Abnett write? Can't seem to find the proper book ^^;
EDIT: Is it Brothers of the Snake?

 

[Jinaar]

Angel Exterminatus is also great for having one of the best bad asses in 30k.

He beat the shit out of the best swordsman in the galaxy and it was nothing more to him than a Tuesday.

That is one hell of a custom mini.

Spoiler

Nykona Sharrowkyn

for those that would like to know.

 

[EYEL1NER]

I ended up starting Emporer's Gift, since I'm not sure how I want to go about acquiring a copy of Ravenor (get an overpriced omnibus now, wait for a new printing of the paperback omnibus in the spring, or buy the three books individually now). This is my first Aaron Dembski-Bowden book and I definitely do like his writing. It's nice to read about Grey Knights again too.

 

[Tacitus_]

Which Iron Snakes novels did Abnett write? Can't seem to find the proper book ^^;
EDIT: Is it Brothers of the Snake?

Yes, Brothers of the Snake. I really like the book, it's one of the few I've read multiple times.

 

[Tizoc]

Yes, Brothers of the Snake. I really like the book, it's one of the few I've read multiple times.

Seems that book is out of print sadly, but I'll keep looking.

 

[EYEL1NER]

Seems that book is out of print sadly, but I'll keep looking.

That is an unfortunate thing about getting into Black Library books this late in the game. I began reading about 40K and reading Black Library books last year and it has been incredibly frustrating finding out about some of the cool books out there and then seeing that they are long-OOP and going for like $50+ for decent condition copies. I guess that isn't too bad of a price compared to a BRB or codex but it is still more than I like to spend on a paperback book in most cases. It happened with the Eisenhorn Trilogy, it happened with The Emporer's Gift, and it has happened with a couple others. Luckily they sometimes come back in-print or you can luck out and find someone selling something for cheap, but it is a pain in the ass when you discover something and want to read it right then.
Be lucky you haven't decided that you want to read any of the Imperial Guard manuals yet like the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer or Imperial Munitorum Manual yet. I got incredibly lucky early this year and got both of those along with some of my other most sought-after books from a guy selling his collection on BGG but I'll probably never get my hands on the Imperial Infantryman's Handbook (two listed on eBay right now, one for $700 and the other for $400) or the Damocles Gulf Edition of the Uplifting Primer (there is one listed on eBay for $100 right now).

 

[Saiyar]

As unlikely as this sounds Games Workshop now have a twitch channel. They streaming 40k games on Fridays, just about to show Space Wolves vs Thousand Sons.

 

[Tacitus_]

Seems that book is out of print sadly, but I'll keep looking.

That is an unfortunate thing about getting into Black Library books this late in the game.

Ebooks boys, directly from the Black Library.

 

[Saiyar]

The production value on this is way better than what I was expecting.

 

[EYEL1NER]

Ebooks boys, directly from the Black Library.

I don't read eBooks though. I mean, I've downloaded some at various times. I got a bunch recently from Amazon for free, as well as Audible eBooks. But I can't ever get myself to read or listen to one, not as easy as it is for me to pull out a book and read it. I feel pretty comfortable lounging around reading a book. So I just can't get into eBooks.

Plus paperbacks from the Black Library retail at only slightly above their eBook price, and the paperbacks can be found other places for eBook prices or better, so I wouldn't ever switch full-time to eBook for all books. eBooks are tempting for the rare, OOP books, but there are still a ton of Black Library books that I own and have yet to read anyway, so I can wait for new printings or editions (or wait for a great deal on a second hand copy if a new printing never happens).

Not saying eBooks are bad but they aren't for me.

 

[manfestival]

Alright friends so I finally caved in and bought my first mini army but I went second hand market from a player at a local store that stopped playing his tau a couple years ago. So here is my new army:
1 Commander Farsight (painted very well)
2 Broadsides
14 Stealth battlesuits
18 Crisis Suits
38 Fire Warriors
2 Devilfish
2 Codexes(kauyon and regular tau)
1 Rulebook
6 battlepod things
30 dice(die)
1 Case with foam inserts
All for 200 dollars. How did I do and do I need to spend anything else in order to make my army viable? Was initially considering playing only Kill Team with a start collecting box but I went all in instead