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[Makariel]

Most of the stuff I agree with, the CPs, characters, coherency, morale all need a bit of work.

I'm not playing custodes or grey knights, so I'm not sure if custodes are really so strapped for CPs. But yeah the character screening by a not visible unit on the other side of the map is a bit silly. I had completely forgotten morale is still in the game tbh, my tyranids are effectively immune to any morale effects unless my enemy shoots away all my synapse creatures. And at that point I might as well concede, so it's never really came up. And with the sisters I typically field minimum sized units, so by the time they lose enough models to potentially fail morale they are pretty much toast already.

I honestly don't have a problem with re-rolls myself.

Re-rolls in isolation are fine. My real issue is the number of steps between deciding which unit shoots until damage resolution. Random number of shots and random damage are another piece of the puzzle. I'm not certain why a flamer can't just have 3 auto hits, a heavy flamer 5, or something like that. Would really be so much lost if every d3 damage weapon just would do flat 2 damage instead?

His idea of just adding a +1 could work on some units for sure but then again if you would give +1 to hit to all units that can currently re-roll you would end up with a 2+ hit for most of them. At that point you would need to completely rework the shooting phase, which I would personally like.

I can't see them completely reworking the Tau phase in the next iteration, unless they would completely re-do some other fundamental systems of the game.

Actually I would like the whole turn system to get a re-work with activation tokens rather than turns. That way 1st turn advantage is no longer a deciding factor and both players stay engaged during the entire length of the game, as opposed to now where one player went to get his lunch while the other moved and shot.

I fully agree with that, and I don't see why they wouldn't be able to have alternative activation like they already do in kill team. Ok you need a token per unit to indicate what they are doing, but indeed both players would be more engaged the whole turn. Systems like Battletech go even one step further, where all damage is allocated at the very end of the turn.

 

[mcz117chief]

Systems like Battletech go even one step further, where all damage is allocated at the very end of the turn.

Other games do that too, I remember it from Axis and Allies. A very interesting and fun system, only some special usually close combat weapons did instant damage.

 

[Stilton Disco]

Looking through the various editions of the game, I've also got an issue with the amount of wounds everything has now.

Characters have gone from 2, maybe 3 for the more pricey units, to 3 for even basic HQ and some Elites a d 6 or even 7 for some.

Worse, the number of normal units that are 2 wounds has exploded. Given Primaris are the new basic unit, thats the majority of peoples armies now that need an additional variable counter to keep track of odd numbers of wounds.

I really think instead of 2 wounds and attacks they should have just made them strength and toughness 5.

 

[Makariel]

Other games do that too, I remember it from Axis and Allies. A very interesting and fun system, only some special usually close combat weapons did instant damage.

Don'r remind me of Axis and Allies! I never quite managed to halt that industrial miltary complex even if my surprise attack on Pearl Harbour worked out well enough. I blame it on the Germans though, my ally always threw away too many troops in Karelia and didn't do enough to pressure the West.

Looking through the various editions of the game, I've also got an issue with the amount of wounds everything has now.

Characters have gone from 2, maybe 3 for the more pricey units, to 3 for even basic HQ and some Elites a d 6 or even 7 for some.

Worse, the number of normal units that are 2 wounds has exploded. Given Primaris are the new basic unit, thats the majority of peoples armies now that need an additional variable counter to keep track of odd numbers of wounds.

I've just looked at some of my old 2nd Ed Codex and very rarely had a HQ there more than 4 wounds. That said, the Eldar Exarch were really getting shafted after 2nd Ed. Back then they were elite fighters who could demolish a small army all by themselves, now they are just glorified Sergeants.

There are other troops with multiple wounds (Tyranid warriors for example), so it's not as if Primaris were the first. But yeah, having higher toughness would serve the same purpose as having the extra wound without adding the need to track the extra wound. Except that it would make it pointless to overcharge the plasma weapons of hellblasters. All in all I don't have too many issues with the number of wounds models have, as long as the vast majority would still stay at 1 wound and if weapons would just get rid of damage rolls and rather have flat 1, 2 or 3 damage.

 

[mcz117chief]

Don'r remind me of Axis and Allies! I never quite managed to halt that industrial miltary complex even if my surprise attack on Pearl Harbour worked out well enough. I blame it on the Germans though, my ally always threw away too many troops in Karelia and didn't do enough to pressure the West.

I meant the miniatures game

I even have the aerial combat game models in my stash. Angels 20.

Worse, the number of normal units that are 2 wounds has exploded. Given Primaris are the new basic unit, thats the majority of peoples armies now that need an additional variable counter to keep track of odd numbers of wounds.

You don't need special counters since you can't spread damage among individual models in a unit. So at worst one of your marines will have 1 wound but everyone will still be at 2.

I really think instead of 2 wounds and attacks they should have just made them strength and toughness 5.

That just promotes power creep. Increasing stats like that is very dangerous. W stat is the easiest to increase since it doesn't really make the unit stronger, just slightly more durable. They need to keep Space Marines relatively week so that they need to field large armies just like anybody else. If they made them lore accurate they would cost 500 points a model and have enormous stats, but that is besides the point. My point is that GW is trying to keep models generally weak so they cost a small amount of points so you need to buy a ton of them for bigger battles. It just makes more business sense.

 

[Stilton Disco]

I meant the miniatures game

I even have the aerial combat game models in my stash. Angels 20.



You don't need special counters since you can't spread damage among individual models in a unit. So at worst one of your marines will have 1 wound but everyone will still be at 2.


That just promotes power creep. Increasing stats like that is very dangerous. W stat is the easiest to increase since it doesn't really make the unit stronger, just slightly more durable. They need to keep Space Marines relatively week so that they need to field large armies just like anybody else. If they made them lore accurate they would cost 500 points a model and have enormous stats, but that is besides the point. My point is that GW is trying to keep models generally weak so they cost a small amount of points so you need to buy a ton of them for bigger battles. It just makes more business sense.

I know how it works with distributing wounds, but if you're fielding an all Primaris army (something that's becoming increasingly common) then after a couple of turns there's a good chance half you're units require a counter to keep track of the odd number wound those units took.

Toughness 5 would work out with roughly the same number of lost units when taking into account bolters, the default weapon in the game, while still showing a clear suprioty over Space Marines but also increasing the viability of a lot of other armies that pack lower strength weaponry.

All of which would mean both a slight streamlining of gameplay, a relatively minor change for most battles given probably 90% of players are fielding marines, but also a way to make other factions more competitive and give GW an excuse to slightly reduce Primaris points cost, which, as you said would boost sales.

Also I don't buy the power creep arguement on bumping Strength and Toughness. There has already been a massive and far more complicated creep in both wounds and attacks, which has led to a overly large number of dice rolls and more variables to track.

Like you say, overcharging plasma is necessary because of the multiple wounds, but so are all the extra attacks everything has.

Reduce the wounds, and you can reduce the attacks, and with it the dice rolling bloat.

 

[mcz117chief]

Reduce the wounds, and you can reduce the attacks, and with it the dice rolling bloat.

Perhaps, we will have to see how it progresses from here. I'm not against it personally, just as long as the game keeps up its current pace at least I'll be happy.

 

[Makariel]

Perhaps, we will have to see how it progresses from here. I'm not against it personally, just as long as the game keeps up its current pace at least I'll be happy.

I think we're all just arguing about the precise path to keep the game fast to play but also interesting I don't think anyone wants to get back to tabletop wargames taking 8 hours and a bit for a medium sized engagement.

 

[mcz117chief]

Would you guys like to see some kind of duel system? I just played Warhammer Mark of Chaos again and I love how each hero has three skill trees: one for commanding troops (buffs), one for special skills (powerful sweeping attacks, long range blasts etc.) and dueling skills which can only be used when two heroes meet face to face, create a fire circle around them and duke it out man to man. I would love something like that to appear in tabletop. Have the option to buy heroes going from lvl 1 all the way to like lvl 20 or 100 or whatever with each lvl up costing some points and giving the character one point to spend on abilities.

 

[Stilton Disco]

So I went down the rabbit hole of alternate 40K scenarios (Brighthammer, the Dornian Heresy, the Lorgar Letdown) the other night, and that got me thinking of points in 40K where a small change could have had huge knock-on effects.

For instance, what if Ferrus Manus and Fulgrim got flipped. The Iron Hands are assigned to deal with the Laer, while the Emperor's Children the Diasperex.

Ferrus would be no more aware of the dangers of Chaos than Fulgrim, and his own pride and curiosity would likely allow the Keeper of Secrets to worm its way in too.

Which leads to the thought of what a Slaaneshi Iron Hands would look like, and it hit me: H R Geiger!

Biomechanical, psychosexual, black armoured, transhuman, murderous fuckboys! If anything they'd make Noisemarines seem quaint.

Also I then thought of something way worse than just getting possessed by the Laer Blade: Ferrus makes it a biomechanical body that looks like a hermaphraditic Fulgrim to inhabit. And then they'd bang.

I think I might need to pick up some Xenomorph miniatures and Chaos Marines and make some of these abominations.

So, anyone else got any ideas for small changes that would have huge consequences? Nothing that would have anyone acting out of character, but just putting different people in the unwinable situations others found themselves in?

 

[Makariel]

I've been thinking about how a mirror heresy would work (not familiar with the Dornian Heresy), but I always find it difficult to get Magnus on the right side, he does everything wrong. What if instead of Horus, Chaos would have turned any of the other Primarchs. The easiest to explain would be the Lion, since Caliban is already swamped in warp-fuckery so it's less of a stretch that he got a bug there. Istvaan would be effectely be reversed, with Iron Hands, Salamanders and Raven Guard stabbing the poor Night Lords, Iron Warriors and Word Bearers in the back. A lot of it would be mirrored, e.g. the Night Lords swapping places with the Raven Guard, Wolves and Thousand Sons still tearing itself apart but with loyalties swapped.

The "Dark (Angels) Heresy"

Traitors:
Lion El'Johson (chaos undivided, killed by the Emperor), Sanguinius (Demon Prince of Khorne), Ferrus Manus (Giger-esque Demon Prince of Slaneesh), Rouboute Guilliman (Over-ambitious Demon Prince of Tzeentch), Vulkan (regenerating Demon Prince of Nurgle), Jagathai Khan, Leman Russ, Rogal Dorn (Demon Prince of Chaos Undivided), Corvus Corax (killed by Imperial Assassin)

Loyalists:
Horus (dies saving the Emperor), Lorgar (killed on Istvaan, in 40k saint second only to the Emperor), Perturabo (decimated on Istvaan), Konrad Curze (nearly killed on Istvaan, goes full Batman after most his legion gets slaughtered), Angron, Fulgrim, Mortarion, Magnus, Alpharius (always loyal killed by Dorn)

 

[Stilton Disco]

I've been thinking about how a mirror heresy would work (not familiar with the Dornian Heresy), but I always find it difficult to get Magnus on the right side, he does everything wrong. What if instead of Horus, Chaos would have turned any of the other Primarchs. The easiest to explain would be the Lion, since Caliban is already swamped in warp-fuckery so it's less of a stretch that he got a bug there. Istvaan would be effectely be reversed, with Iron Hands, Salamanders and Raven Guard stabbing the poor Night Lords, Iron Warriors and Word Bearers in the back. A lot of it would be mirrored, e.g. the Night Lords swapping places with the Raven Guard, Wolves and Thousand Sons still tearing itself apart but with loyalties swapped.

The "Dark (Angels) Heresy"

Traitors:
Lion El'Johson (chaos undivided, killed by the Emperor), Sanguinius (Demon Prince of Khorne), Ferrus Manus (Giger-esque Demon Prince of Slaneesh), Rouboute Guilliman (Over-ambitious Demon Prince of Tzeentch), Vulkan (regenerating Demon Prince of Nurgle), Jagathai Khan, Leman Russ, Rogal Dorn (Demon Prince of Chaos Undivided), Corvus Corax (killed by Imperial Assassin)

Loyalists:
Horus (dies saving the Emperor), Lorgar (killed on Istvaan, in 40k saint second only to the Emperor), Perturabo (decimated on Istvaan), Konrad Curze (nearly killed on Istvaan, goes full Batman after most his legion gets slaughtered), Angron, Fulgrim, Mortarion, Magnus, Alpharius (always loyal killed by Dorn)

There's both the Dornian and Roboutian Heresies that flip Traitor and Loyalists.

The thing is the way the Primarch's are written it's hard to make some turning or staying loyal be believable.

The Lion was tempted by chaos as an infant and rejected it, and the Emperor was never in doubt of his first son falling to the ruinous powers. The same with Leman Russ. Sure, he was savage and hit tempered, but he considered himself a true son of the Emperor, and accepted his role as the savage executioner despite his hidden depths.

Conversly, Angron and Mortarian despised the Emperor, and were the first to turn on him without any kind of corruption or manipulation by chaos.

Then there's Fulgrim and Magnus, both of which were entirely loyal, but either tricked or forced to turn traitor by outside manipulation. Even Lorgar wasn't inherently evil. Take away Erubus and Kor Feron and, as vulnerable and hurt as he was after Monarchia, I doubt he'd have started worshipping chaos.

Amongst the loyalists, it's interesting as to which Primarch's the Emperor didn't trust. As much as hindsight paints the Khan as honour bound to the Emperor, no one was able to predict where his loyalties would fall. With manipulation, he could well have ended up at the side of Horus, at least before the corruption truly set in.

More surprising given his status in 40K currently, is the fact that the Emperor didn't trust Guilliman at all, and expected him to be using his hypothetical logic exercises to excuse his creating his own secessionist kingdom beyond the ruinstorm, which od course was entirely accurate.

Without the Lion and Sanguinius, Guilliman probably would have just let the Imperium burn and then assured himself afterwards that there was nothing he could do and took the right course of action, that he wasn't being selfish or ambitious, just practical.

 

[Makariel]

I've been putting together some Warcry models. I'm really looking forward to paint some fantasy stuff in between, I've done enough power armour for now and can do with something different!

 

[Makariel]

Warhammer 40k 9th Edition announced!

 

[Greedings]

I've been avoiding this topic for a while, mainly because I've gotten over my warhammer addition and don't want to relapse.

However, I'm pretty excited that a goblin/ork update for Warhammer II Total War is out now. Pretty excited to play!

Would love to see a 40K game, since in my opinion, there isn't a single good one.

 

[Makariel]

Space Marines & Necron starter box?

 

[Stilton Disco]

The reveal was almost 2 hours with barely 4 points of information, but there's been some bloody awesome leaks rhat have included a huge number up new Prumaris that don't look like tacticool generic sci fi dudes:

Shame the new Assualt Marines don't seem to have Jump Packs, but that's an easy enough thing to fix.

If Primaris had looked like these feim the get go I'd have had far less of a problem with them, although it still looks like they're limited in terms of load out choices and are likely a different unit, with slightly different rules for each weapon variant.

 

[Makariel]

The primaris bikers were kind of leaked some time ago, so no surprise but nice to see them in high definition and not as blurry screengrab. I do like the sergeant(?) with the volkite pistol, which hopefully means some more options for primaris marines in general. I guess the assault primaris don't necessarily need jump packs if you pack them into an impulsor. Would be nice to have the option though. Also wonder if we will see primaris grey knights with 9th, and I guess chaos will get their twisted version of 2-wound marines as well at some point.

Since the old Codex remains valid until the new version comes along, together with all the psychic awakening stuff, I guess the 9th Ed. is shaping up to be more of a 8.5 than a real new edition. Also nice to see some new Necron models.

For hyping this "biggest reveal EVARRRR" so much the past few days I'd have expected a bit more though.

 

[Stilton Disco]

It reminded me of the shitty E3 conferences and game pressers of the past few years. Barely any content, then 20 minutes of inane discussion mostly by people no one cares about.

They should have just revealed a model, shown it from different angles, shown variants with different poses/equipment in different paint schemes, then discussed the rules for it and its intended battlefield role, niche and synergies, all for no more than 5 minutes before moving on to the next one.

They also should have built up to the new 9th edition boxed game reveal, teaser shots of the included armies and paraphernalia, then had a proper reveal of the Silent King as the one more thing.

What we got felt sloppy, overly long and all bark with no bite.

 

[mcz117chief]

The primaris bikers were kind of leaked some time ago, so no surprise but nice to see them in high definition and not as blurry screengrab. I do like the sergeant(?) with the volkite pistol, which hopefully means some more options for primaris marines in general. I guess the assault primaris don't necessarily need jump packs if you pack them into an impulsor. Would be nice to have the option though. Also wonder if we will see primaris grey knights with 9th, and I guess chaos will get their twisted version of 2-wound marines as well at some point.

Since the old Codex remains valid until the new version comes along, together with all the psychic awakening stuff, I guess the 9th Ed. is shaping up to be more of a 8.5 than a real new edition. Also nice to see some new Necron models.

For hyping this "biggest reveal EVARRRR" so much the past few days I'd have expected a bit more though.

It was pretty obvious from the get go that 8th edition would effectively be the start of a "modular" rule-set with just smaller or larger "updates" either via new books or erratas. I don't expect any major changes for 9th edition, just fix some of the dumb stuff from 8th like character targeting.

I am looking forward to updates for explosive weapons. In 8th edition some weapons saw a really odd usage, for example Basilisk being used primarily as an anti-tank weapon as its anti-infantry potential was very weak (mostly, it was definitely weak against big armies but awesome against knights and such). Perhaps now it will have 1d6 shots against vehicles or squad below the size of 6 and 2d6 against larger squads or something. Some weapons already do that.

 

[Helios]

Would love to see a 40K game, since in my opinion, there isn't a single good one.

Space Marine is okay but it gets boring fast.

 

[Makariel]

A picture of the new Necron on the horizon via Reddit. Between this guy and the rest of the new Necron line I'm inclined to get a bunch of them for fun...

So most of the current Necron models were from 3rd, before that we got new lines of GSC and Sisters, which didn't really have much new models since RT respectively 2nd Edition times. So if they go in that sequence Guard, Tyranids, Tau and Eldar are all good candidates for being next up after Necron. All of them have quite a significant chunk of their current lines originating from 3rd Edition. While Space Marines and Chaos will likely just continue to get a more or less constant string of updates.

Also, the Primaris Judicar (Chaplain?) painted:

 

[mcz117chief]

Those Necron tri-pods though (they are quad-pods but that sounds silly so whatever)

 

[Stilton Disco]

Bit bummed that the Silent King is another big diorama figure. I really don't like when they pad out the price with unnecessary scenery.

Still, I do like the look of the new Necrons. Kind of want to paint them up in sandstone colours with gold, blues and reds like Egyptian statues come to life.

The Judiciar looks cool too. Cross between a Chaplain and 8th company captain by the look and sound of it. Really does look a lot like a Stormcast Eternal though...

 

[Mr Nash]

I'm curious who the Necrons will clash with first lore-wise now that the Silent King is back. There's a lot of options, which I'm sure is something GW thought about. Fight everyone at once? Stop the Tyranids from gobbling up all that bio matter that could be flesh hosts for Necron souls? Decide that Chaos is a priority target? I'm sure the Aeldari have a bone to pick with the Necrons too. In any case, it'll be fun to watch.

 

[Stilton Disco]

I'm curious who the Necrons will clash with first lore-wise now that the Silent King is back. There's a lot of options, which I'm sure is something GW thought about. Fight everyone at once? Stop the Tyranids from gobbling up all that bio matter that could be flesh hosts for Necron souls? Decide that Chaos is a priority target? I'm sure the Aeldari have a bone to pick with the Necrons too. In any case, it'll be fun to watch.

My guess: The Lion returns in the northern side of the Imperium and allies with the Necrons against Chaos and the Tyranids, while the Southern Imperium allies further with the Eldar under Guilliman against the Necrons, eventually leading to Civil War 2.0.

 

[Makariel]

Been spending the weekend building a bunch of models, so put together 3 Warcry warbands (Untamed Beasts, Stormcast, Nighthaunt), warcry beasts of chaos, a squad of Celestians, and a squad of Eldar Banshees. Also base coated the latter two, I guess a few painting sessions are in order. For the Nighthaunt I'm thinking of giving zenithal highlights a try:

 

[Makariel]

Goonhammer wrote up a transcript of the 9th Ed Q&A:

9th Edition Q&A Transcript

Transcript Courtesy of Goonhammer.com. A summary can be found here. Q1: What can fans of horde armies look forward to in this edition? Pete - Lots of things to help assault and horde armies. Terrain will be more meaningful. Terrain will block LOS "a lot more". No longer able to shoot through t...

docs.google.com

Some points:
Overwatch is changing (to help CC armies, what you hear now is the cries of all Tau players) as well as falling back (New core Stratagems to give melee armies a boost and make it worth going across the board)
Anything that Tanks can do, Monsters can do just as well "if not better". Monsters will be fighting you in the fighting phase and shoot in the shooting phase. Good time to magnetise my Carnifexes!
Terrain can block LOS "No longer able to shoot through three windows and a postbox and clip the wing of a Carnifex. "
Blast should help randomness of larger weapons, but random shots are still a thing (meh)
Everyone starts with same number of CP, depending on army size, there will be different CP generation during game
-> how armies are put together will change quite a bit
It will cost CP to soup armies, example given: you can pay CP to have a knight in your army
4 Army Sizes: Combat Patrol, Onslaught, Strike Force, Incursion
Can spend CP to put units in reserve
Reserves can come from different table edges in later turns.
Old Codexes will remain valid until new ones come, which will also include Crusade rules.
Morale phase has been reworked

 

[Honey Bunny]

I really hoped they'd move necrons further towards the best necron art, where they're proportioned more like a human and have less of that silly hunchback. Oh well. Happy they're moving away from tacticool marines.

 

[Makariel]

I really hoped they'd move necrons further towards the best necron art, where they're proportioned more like a human and have less of that silly hunchback. Oh well. Happy they're moving away from tacticool marines.

What are are you refering to? For me the classic "Necron" look is the 3rd edition Codex art, where they first time showed up in force:

Spoiler: NECRON

In other news, I'm currently building a total of 4 Carnifex(es) for my Tyranids. My nids are now almost 2,5k worth in 8th Edition points, so I guess it's time to consolidate and paint the rest before getting any more models. I'm building one of my Carnifex as old one eye, because he is a monster (figuratively and literaly) and the three others will be magnetised such that they can be any kind of fex, from Dakkafex to Scremer killers or Thornbacks.

What I'm now wondering is how I should paint them. So far I have been painting every type of unit differently, hence my tyranids look FABULOUS, and not like the typical monotonic wave crashing against enemy guns.

For my other nids I've so far looked at inspiration in older colour schemes (most notably the garish 2nd Ed) and/or nature. In terms of older colour schemes, the Carnifex wasn't too crazy back then in GW material.

That's old old one eye:

And the old Fexes. Not certain how well that would translate on the current models.

So any suggestions on old-timey colour schemes or alternatively bugs, crabs, lobsters or other creatures with cool colour schemes I could borrow? I've so far looked at various turtles:

Spoiler: Turtles, not the teenage mutant type

The Mary River turtle looks funky:

 

[Makariel]

Been busy this weekend magnetising my Carnifexes...

Not in view is Old One Eye, which will not be magnetised since he's having a fixed loadout. And Old One Eye deserves a bit more permanent treatment. So what's here is parts of three Carnifexes, which will be fully magnetised, that will eventually includes 3 sets of each type of head-biomorph option, carapace, monstrous bio-weapons and tail-weapon options, and 6 sets of each regular weapon option. I also modified the devourers, effectively making them "twin-linked", since the Carnifex devourer should in my view more menacing than the regular Gaunt devourer.

Of course, I managed to get the magnets the wrong way round in the left-arm ranged bioweapons at first. Yay. Don't magnetise late at night. The Carnifex and various Carnifex varieties are the most customisable kit in the Tyranids arsenal, and I just ran out of magnets. Need to order more to complete all the weapons options.

edit: trying to magnetise the heads with smaller magnets did not work. At all. Moving on to plan B.

Some dry fitting, the Dakkafex:

The more conventional crab-claw and stabby-fex:

Some others....

Spoiler: more variations

 

[ScarletSpider]

.

 

[Makariel]

There have been snippets of the new rules over the past week and so far most of it sounds alright. As expected an evolution of 8th rather than a revolution. The change to terrain was well overdue, but some odd issues have already shown up from the previews: a tau broadside will apparently be able to hide behind terrain, the triumph of St Katherine, as T3 model with loads of wounds, will not be able to

The content of the box looks OK, I guess no one is really surprised that it's Necron versus space marines. They haven't announced the price yet I think, but I expect the biggest ever starting price along with the biggest ever box.

If I get the box or just get the rulebook will be decided when the price is announced.

 

[mcz117chief]

This is going to sell truck loads. My (quite small) club already has like 20 pre-orders with multiple people ordering multiple boxes. This thing is just insane, man.

 

[ScarletSpider]

.

 

[mcz117chief]

Hell yeah, I can’t wait! Hoping this gets more folks into the hobby where I live.

I hope we get "end-times" soon and restart the setting, the bloat is getting ridiculous. A clean new slate would be amazing at this point.

 

[Makariel]

I hope we get "end-times" soon and restart the setting, the bloat is getting ridiculous. A clean new slate would be amazing at this point.

I don't think that's going to happen, 40k still makes loads of money for them. Fantasy was just end-timed because they wanted to relaunch the whole thing because it didn't make them money.

 

[mcz117chief]

I don't think that's going to happen, 40k still makes loads of money for them. Fantasy was just end-timed because they wanted to relaunch the whole thing because it didn't make them money.

I never said I want 40k to end, but I would like a new start. Keep the setting, but start from the beginning again and change the story a bit. I think it would be cool if they did this every generation with one faction winning every 10 or so years. That way, we would have plenty of different stories and universes with different twists to them.

 

[Makariel]

I'm seeing 40k more as a setting to tell your own stories anway, rather than a story to follow. The universe of 40k is enormous, there is more than enough unexplored space to put any number of stories, without intersecting with any already established lore, with perhaps the exception of the cicatrix maledictum. But even then you can set any story within a thousand years prior and again no problem. So if they "reset" the Indomitus Crusade, but without big changes to the setting, I don't see how that would have any relevant effect on the game? In none of my games did Rowboat Girlyman ever have any direct impact, or any named character. Even if I get special characters, I usually convert them and while they might still "count as", I typically make up my own lore. My sisters of battle army doesn't have "Celestine" for example, but my army has a living saint called "Anastasia", who uses the rules for Celestine, but has a different background and lore, which fits into my custom order. So do I care what Celestine did and does on the other side of the galaxy, or that she got murdered my Kharn? Not really.

Fantasy had a much more rigid storyline and iirc way more named characters, and by virtue of being "kinda medieval Europe but not really" a much smaller scope. So here it made more sense to break it up to have room for completely new armies and races. 40k doesn't have that problem, since there are untold numbers of worlds the imperium doesn't even look at, in which any number of new xenos species could turn up. I mean that's what happened with the Tau.

 

[TheSadRanger]

I hope we get "end-times" soon and restart the setting, the bloat is getting ridiculous. A clean new slate would be amazing at this point.

Looking back it's kind of funny. I think Warhammer Fantasy would do really well these days since I would argue it's more popular then 40k nowadays in videogames. The Vermintide and Total War series were huge commercial and critical hits while 40k has kind of lost some of it's popularity in video games.

Warhammer Fantasy had so much room to move forward and evolve over time where 40k is just kinda stuck without something major happening to push it forward. I never liked the concept of the indomitus marines anyways /shrug.

 

[Makariel]

Looking back it's kind of funny. I think Warhammer Fantasy would do really well these days since I would argue it's more popular then 40k nowadays in videogames. The Vermintide and Total War series were huge commercial and critical hits while 40k has kind of lost some of it's popularity in video games.

Fair thing to say that GW has noticed:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/06/cartography-in-the-old-worldgw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-1/

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/23/the-old-world-ice-guard-of-kislevgw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-2/

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/11/old-world-update-bearsgw-homepage-post-4/

Once the old world is out we'll see if it really sells like hot cupcakes, or if people realise that they had forgotten to take off the rose-tinted glasses. I've been playing the WHFB RPG back in the day, which was great, but the tabletop game was a bit shit imo. I was happy to find a buyer for my old Empire army. That said, I still have my old steam tank somewhere...

 

[Mr Nash]

I don't know if we'll see an end times in 40K. That universe has quite a lot going on lore-wise that folks are eating up, and I think GW recognizes that they mostly need to revamp old models, which they have been slowly working on, first with the Sisters of Battle, and now the Necrons. There are too many exciting possibilities with the story to just force a reset. My guess is 9th edition will see the Necrons really press the Imperium hard, possibly culminating with Dante finally dying (which he does kind of want after living for so long). I could see him fighting the Silent King one-on-one in an epic battle but losing, then the scene shifts to The Rock where Dark Angels are going over status reports of the battle and we hear the voice of the Lion saying, "Assemble the legion." Enter 10th edition.

 

[Makariel]

Did you ever hear the tragedy of Asdrubael Vect?

Not a story a Space Marine would tell you...

 

[Makariel]

Never drink and browse online shops people... today came a box that I drunk-bought a few days ago. I'm now proud(?) owner of a start-collecting Tau Empire box plus a box of stealth suits. For the greater good?

Now I just realise I know nothing about Tau lol. I have read one of the Farsight books recently, and that was actually pretty cool, so I guess I can blame that for my drunken antics. I think I'll make lemonade, ehrm, a kill team out of this, actually enough models in there to fill an entire KT roster. Just pondering how I should paint them. Was thinking of having the infantry (fire warriors, breachers) in camo, while the crisis suits should be more elaborate, kind of mirroring the space marines of the imperium.

In other news, I had the story behind my Battle Sisters army sent to the Lorehammer podcast some time ago (almost a year ago?) and now they read it out on their show (there is only one sisters' order in this episode, so should be easy to spot):

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lorehammer.podbean.com

 

[Greedings]

I was really considering getting back into 40k recently as I’m planning On moving home to the UK in a year or so.
But holy shit things have changed.
The rules. There’s endless supplements, all which cost a lot of money too. When I played from 3rd to 6th edition I knew practically every rule. Except for dark eldar because so few people played them.

How the hell are new players supposed to get involved? The number of rules and details and command point and allies and buffs and Codices and supplements are all completely overwhelming.

 

[Makariel]

How the hell are new players supposed to get involved? The number of rules and details and command point and allies and buffs and Codices and supplements are all completely overwhelming.

The core rules, which are available for free, are just a handful of pages, and then you're just "supposed to" learn your own army first, before pondering about what other armies can do, based on the codex. The big problem in 8th is that they threw out some of the codex way too quick and have altered points values with many FAQs so that I would not recommend to start playing RIGHT NOW, but rather wait for 9th Edition when everyone starts with a clean slate. The new core rulebook is supposed to come out in September, and all Codex will still remain valid so you can already pick up a codex of an army you'd be interested in and read through the basic 8th Ed rules, but expect that 9th will start with a big list of revised points values for everything. Until then I'd rather recommend playing Kill Team, which is the skirmish 40k game which has everything you need in effectively two books: core rules and elites (ignore commanders, nobody plays that). If you get into competitive play you can also consider arena. I personally pretty much stopped "normal" 40k and only play kill team right now, so maybe I'm biased. But KT is just more balanced (that the meta is shifting pretty much every tournament shows that every kill team has a shot at winning), can be played much faster and you only need a box of miniatures of your favourite army to get started.

 

[Greedings]

From when I played as a youngster, I found that most people only wanted to play classic 40K, not any of the spin-offs. Does anyone actually play Kill Team?

 

[Makariel]

From when I played as a youngster, I found that most people only wanted to play classic 40K, not any of the spin-offs. Does anyone actually play Kill Team?

Depends on Region I guess, but around my location it's easy to find KT games. In not-covid-times our local GW has open longer on thursdays and there's often a KT game going on for example. Also, based on recent interviews and streams from GW, they seem to see Kill Team as the 'starter' game for 'big' 40k and seems they plan to support it further.

 

[Mr Nash]

Looks like someone else is making a 40K CG movie thing, The Exodite. Possibly Eldar focused judging by the teaser.

 

[Makariel]

Definitely Eldar, just based on the title!

A shame that GW didn't do anything with Exodites since 2nd Edition. I'm currently putting together a small exodite army for my wife, who heard "space elves on dinosaurs" and said:

Currently working on the "counts as shining spears" and "counts as Nightshade Interceptor", the former is based on smaller dragons like this:

... the latter on this one:

Just looking for the right minis to use as riders. The new Lumineth guys are an interesting option.