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[Darkmakaimura]

Everyone on both sides agree that Anakin Skywalker is the most powerful force user at that time.

However, Palpatine seems to be way more powerful than even Skywalker when he becomes Vader.

Everything Palpatine does exceeds Anakin. Not only that but he's capable of feeds that Anakin is not including transferring his soul to other bodies and possibly even calling upon past souls of Sith and empowering himself with them.

It makes me curious why even when Vader is in his prime, people still see him as the most powerful force user but Darth Sidious seems to outdo him at every will. Even in canon comics, Darth Sidious was able to overpower Vader easily enough.

I've always considered the real threat to be Darth Sidious. Whether it's his power with the force or his ability to manipulate, Darth Sidious is better at every thing else.

 

[AJUMP23]

Palpatine was the master....the master of evil. But in the end Vader killed the Palp, and saved his son.

 

[ClosBSAS]

Palpatine was the master....the master of evil. But in the end Vader killed the Palp, and saved his son.

So...how does this answer ops question? That's it? So because he killed old ass palp he's better?

 

[Slicker than your average]

Everyone on both sides agree that Anakin Skywalker is the most powerful force user at that time.

However, Palpatine seems to be way more powerful than even Skywalker when he becomes Vader.

Everything Palpatine does exceeds Anakin. Not only that but he's capable of feeds that Anakin is not including transferring his soul to other bodies and possibly even calling upon past souls of Sith and empowering himself with them.

It makes me curious why even when Vader is in his prime, people still see him as the most powerful force user but Darth Sidious seems to outdo him at every will. Even in canon comics, Darth Sidious was able to overpower Vader easily enough.

I've always considered the real threat to be Darth Sidious. Whether it's his power with the force or his ability to manipulate, Darth Sidious is better at every thing else.

Vader lost most of his power when he became a robot.

 

[AJUMP23]

So...how does this answer ops question? That's it? So because he killed old ass palp he's better?

I left it open ended on purpose. Palp is stronger but Vader won. Is that what you want. CLOSE THREAD! I SOLVED IT!

 

[Gp1]

Vader with both legs and arms = probably more midclorians than anyone at that era time.

Bionic Vader = broken puppet where he is (besides the emperor and some inquisitors, etc.) one of the only force users that the galaxy saw in a long time. And even that way he's a notch above almost anyone else.

Imho the coolest scenes in Obi Wan is Vader manhandling Reva in a duel without a saber. Just after ripping a frickin ship out of the sky.

 

[DetectiveBananas]

The way I view the two of them after all the movies, tv shows, comics, etc…
Sidious spent his entire life learning the dark side and using it to his advantage. Very Powerful force user but only has the dark side to draw from.
Anakin was born with the potential to be the strongest force user in that era. Unfortunately, he wasn’t raised from birth to be a Jedi. Started later then his peers and wasn’t allowed to use the dark side to become more balanced in the force. If Anakin was trained by Qui Gon then perhaps he could’ve hit his full potential but we’ll never know.
Once he lost to Obi Wan he was never gonna hit full potential. Too emotionally damaged and torn between revenge and regret. Sidious being over confident, took his eye off the prize, and blew a “3-0 Lead to the Rebel Alliance in the Finals!” .

 

[FullMetalx117]

Vader/Anakin had the most potential out of any force user ever. Vader, while having powers from the dark side, unfortunately never reach true potential due to injuries/loss of limbs. But even in this state, he’s at least equal to Palpatine.

Palpatine himself claimed Anakin/Vader is more powerful (before he offed windu)

 

[pramod]

It seems like we will never know exactly how strong Sidious was. Even though he "lost" the fight to Mace it could just have been losing on purpose as part of his plan.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

I don't know much about the comics but I heard one of the canon comics implies that Palpatine created Anakin.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

Vader lost most of his power when he became a robot.

That’s how I always understood it. Anakin’s potential was always going to be beyond anything else, but when he was sliced and diced he lost that potential.

Luke was the next potential GOAT until Riann Johnson subverted those expectations

 

[Fbh]

I mean Palpatine is ALL THE SITH so him I guess?
Before the sequels I always understood Vader to be more powerful. Sidious is more about manipulation than straight up confrontation and he has always seemed like a one trick pony with his lightning.

 

[Kilau]

Anakin/Vader lost to Obi-Wan so while he may have had the most power, it wasn't focused or trained to the fullest yet.

 

[GMCamaro]

Hey you guys, didn't ya know Rey is the most powerful? She beat Palpatine and didn't even have to throw him down a shaft or die by electricity to do it either.

Spoiler: Spoiler

 

[West Texas CEO]

Darth Sidious and it's not even close.
Did Vader have potential? maybe.

But Sid outclasses Vaper in very area including:

• Overall Power
• Force Lightning
• Telekinesis
• Telepathy
• Force Sense/Precognition/Farsight
• Combat Skill
• Force Augmentation
• Knowledge/Alchemy
• Midi-chlorian Manipulation

 

[MagiusNecros]

Sidious is more powerful then Vader in the Force after Vader becomes Cyborg. But not physical strength. Sidious only miscalculated Vader on caring about his son.

Sidious was always more the Mastermind while Vader became the Enforcer with presence and pure physical strength.

Darth Bane could probably kick Vader's ass tho.

To this day I still think overall the likes of Vitiate/Valkorion and Abeloth are more powerful then either.

 

[kunonabi]

Sidious states that Vader will become more powerful, which may or not be true, but his defeat at Mustafar ends up preventing him from realizing his potential whether that is due to his injuries or Padme's death crushing his spirit.

At least he did manage to bring balance to the force which he... Oh wait, never mind a Palpatine did that.

 

[EviLore]

Anakin was the most naturally gifted, but gifts aren’t everything in life.

 

[Doom85]

Once he lost to Obi Wan he was never gonna hit full potential. Too emotionally damaged and torn between revenge and regret.

Not just that, but because the Force is connected to living things only, the loss of so much of his physical body limited his Force usage. IIRC Lucas said Anakin ended up 20% weaker in Force usage after Episode 3.

 

[JonSnowball]

Darth Vader was aligned with the dark side, a real evil piece of work! Darth Sidious? That mother fucker was just insidious in every regard.

 

[Mattdaddy]

I always thought it was while Vader had the potential to be the most powerful ever, it was never fully realized because of his inner conflict around how his life got fucked up. Sidious was full blown 100% evil which let him draw more power from the dark side. Vader for sure had lots of evil in him and did some nasty shit, but some tiny part of him still held on to his humanity as evidenced when he saves Luke and kills the emperor. But ultimately he's never able to fully commit to light or dark which kinda caps him.

And then I guess its possible getting his arms and legs chopped off reduced his midichlorian count... lol I dont know is that cannon? They kind lost me with all that weirdness. Im sticking with the above. If more mass = potential force power then Yoda should be trash not goat. I dont think they thought that one through.

 

[Doom85]

If more mass = potential force power then Yoda should be trash not goat. I dont think they thought that one through.

It‘s less about more mass and more about how much of your body is living. Yoda’s entire body is alive thus he connects fully to the Force.

It adds another layer to Obi-Wan’s line of “he’s more machine than man now” regarding Vader.

 

[Fbh]

Anakin/Vader lost to Obi-Wan so while he may have had the most power, it wasn't focused or trained to the fullest yet.

But do we know if Palpatine can win against prime Obi Wan + the high ground?

 

[March Climber]

Mace Windu was stronger than Sidious. Anakin had higher power potential than Mace. Anakin is stronger than Sidious.

 

[Mattdaddy]

It‘s less about more mass and more about how much of your body is living. Yoda’s entire body is alive thus he connects fully to the Force.

It adds another layer to Obi-Wan’s line of “he’s more machine than man now” regarding Vader.

Gotcha, makes sense I guess. I preferred it more as just "some people are just more attuned than others". Cause with the whole midichlorians and living tissue and all that, makes it tougher to be consistent. Even in the new ones theyve got Sidious still powerful as fuck but he's like a half dead clone or whatever being moved around by a mechanical arm and needs to sap Kylo and Rey to survive. But hes still uber powerful somehow.

Ugh I dont even know why I care the new movies sucked so bad lol. I just need to play Fallen Order, wait for Andor S2, and move on.

 

[Kilau]

But do we know if Palpatine can win against prime Obi Wan + the high ground?

Probably not, that worked because Anakin was so easily baited and emotional. Palp would fight smarter.

 

[InterMusketeer]

That part never made any sense. Probably best not to think about it too much. Why would Sidious (or any Sith for that matter) need an apprentice anyway? He's evil and only cares about having everything for himself. Vader is just a lackey to him that he can send on missions he finds too bothersome himself.

 

[T4keD0wN]

Anakin/Vader lost to Obi-Wan so while he may have had the most power, it wasn't focused or trained to the fullest yet.

Palpatine was the master....the master of evil. But in the end Vader killed the Palp, and saved his son.

Mace Windu was stronger than Sidious.

Ok, so far my takeaway from this thread is that both Anakin and the senate are losers

 

[March Climber]

My takeaway from this thread is that both Anakin and the senate are losers

It's because the Sith(aside from adult Vader) were written badly... and arguably continued to be until both Clone Wars TV shows came out(2D and 3D ones).

 

[T4keD0wN]

It's because the Sith(aside from adult Vader) were written badly... and arguably continued to be until both Clone Wars TV shows came out(2D and 3D ones).

And now my takeaway is shifting to thinking that its just up to whoever happens to be the writer at the moment deciding which one is the more powerful one, but thats a boring answer.

I always assumed it was the emperor when i was watching the movies since Vader just obeys him, therefore: Sidiouses power = Vaders power + Sidiouses personal power)

 

[Darkmakaimura]

I always assumed it was the emperor when i was watching the movies since Vader just obeys him, therefore: Sidiouses power = Vaders power + Sidiouses personal power)

Funny enough, in canon the Emperor was trying to create a Force Dyad with Vader.

 

[Bragr]

It‘s less about more mass and more about how much of your body is living. Yoda’s entire body is alive thus he connects fully to the Force.

It adds another layer to Obi-Wan’s line of “he’s more machine than man now” regarding Vader.

I thought Yoda's race worked better with the force?

 

[TheInfamousKira]

I don't read the Thong Trilogy or watch Mondoleering but as a strictly films guy, it's explained away as Vader looking cooler but being weaker than Palpatine for having Hayden Christensen under the cool armor. It's a retcon after the fact, but George Lucas, m I rite

 

[Trunx81]

Sidious designed the armor to keep Vader in constraints. The suit hurts Anakin, so he has to use some force powers to lower his pain. Sidious also did this to keep Vaders hate and anger on a high level.

The suit is also made out of old tech, it’s heavy and hard to walk/move in it. Again, something Sidious did to keep Anakina real power at bay.

If Sidious was more powerful, he wouldn’t have to do this. So yes, Anakin (and also Vader) is a more powerful force user.

But, as knowledge is also power, Sidious is stronger in other aspects.

 

[March Climber]

And now my takeaway is shifting to thinking that its just up to whoever happens to be the writer at the moment deciding which one is the more powerful one, but thats a boring answer.

I always assumed it was the emperor when i was watching the movies since Vader just obeys him, therefore: Sidiouses power = Vaders power + Sidiouses personal power)

I used to think so until the prequels. Then it seemed like Sidious was looking for an apprentice who would not only succeed him but also exceed him. No one more perfect for that than the chosen one himself, Anakin.

 

[GeekyDad]

So...how does this answer ops question? That's it? So because he killed old ass palp he's better?

The question was about "most powerful," not "better." And you answered your own question. Yes, he overpowers Palpatine. Calling Palpatine old changes nothing.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

I used to think so until the prequels. Then it seemed like Sidious was looking for an apprentice who would not only succeed him but also exceed him. No one more perfect for that than the chosen one himself, Anakin.

Sidious was trying to create a Force Dyad with Vader to boost his power. It didn't succeed.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

Cannon Vader was a broken husk of the potential Sidious originally saw in Anakin Skywalker, hence his desire to turn Luke. Disney fanfiction is irrelevant.

 

[Marvel14]

Vader was seduced by the Dark side of the force and was its servant.

Sidious mastered the dark side of the force and made it do his bidding.

 

[March Climber]

Vader was seduced by the Dark side of the force and was its servant.

Sidious mastered the dark side of the force and made it do his bidding.

It’s a shame that Sidious still acted way too irrationally and cartoonish. Count Dooku and Mace Windu felt like the only two dark side force users who acted like actual people with class and stature, instead of a cackling villain or a cold detached killer.

I’d expect a Sith of the highest order like Sidious to be more like the above two, or maybe Revan. Anything better than what he was.

 

[GymWolf]

He can throw force thunders, from distance he is probably stronger, lightsaber skill wise maybe vader is stronger.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

Sidious was afraid and seemingly inferior to his master in all areas. He got him by subterfuge. And his master was still afraid of the Jedi Order. So there is a clear limit to Sidious ability. Anakin Skywalker had the highest potential ever seen in the force. Vader was not that potential realised but still good enough to kill all the people that he wanted to kill, including someone in another ship. For me Vader was the superior one, but still learning what he could from Sidious. If Luke had accepted his offer in Endor they would have probably easily taken care of Sidious. The lightning bit is the only bonus he had, but it had been "retconned" as a normal sith ability so I consider that it is not that special. Vader wins. But Sidious had control of the Empire from the moffs. So he had way more political power. That is the clear difference between the two.

 

[BlackTron]

Anakin had the greatest Force potential, but it was never truly realized. Had he been trained properly and remained a Jedi he could have been top of all time. When he lost to Obi-Wan and got the suit the day he became Darth Vader, he became a shell of his former self.

Palpatine wanted an enforcer and a tool, not a real friend to share the mysteries of Sith secrets with. He had no intention of revealing or learning anything special with Darth Vader that would increase his power TOO much; Vader was on a leash. Vader's life support suit itself was weak to force lightning which both prevented him from trying to attack Sidious or from attempting to use lighting himself. The pain and aggravation of being in the suit was itself empowering of the dark side. Vader was a great candidate for channeling raw power like this, without actually showing or teaching him any new techniques or secrets. Sidious had the experience and knowledge and kept it all for himself.

Anakin was fenced in and manipulated and as a result, never got anywhere close to full power either as Jedi or Sith.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Sidious designed the armor to keep Vader in constraints. The suit hurts Anakin, so he has to use some force powers to lower his pain. Sidious also did this to keep Vaders hate and anger on a high level.

The suit is also made out of old tech, it’s heavy and hard to walk/move in it. Again, something Sidious did to keep Anakina real power at bay.

If Sidious was more powerful, he wouldn’t have to do this. So yes, Anakin (and also Vader) is a more powerful force user.

But, as knowledge is also power, Sidious is stronger in other aspects.

Hold up, pretty sure I once heard the Star Wars Theory dude say that wearing the suit or being in the bacta tank are the only times Vader's not in pain.

 

[GymWolf]

I mean Palpatine is ALL THE SITH so him I guess?
Before the sequels I always understood Vader to be more powerful. Sidious is more about manipulation than straight up confrontation and he has always seemed like a one trick pony with his lightning.

He fucks up 4 jedi master like nothing before "losing" against windu, he was also skilled with the light saber.

 

[BlackTron]

Hold up, pretty sure I once heard the Star Wars Theory dude say that wearing the suit or being in the bacta tank are the only times Vader's not in pain.

It depends on what timeline/canon you are going with. There are sources that Vader's suit was cumbersome and painful (even intentionally so), but there are new Disney canon sources that show Palpatine even let Vader modify and improve his suit (comics I think).

I like the former explanation better because it fits better with Palpatine's personality and Sith utility. It also provides a reason for Vader's stilted Frankenstein suit. And SW is such a mess now who cares about "official canon" lol.

 

[FunkMiller]

Palpatine was the master....the master of evil. But in the end Vader killed the Palp, and saved his son.

No he didn’t. Palatine survived being blown up on the Death Star.

Rey killed Palpatine.

That’s official Star Wars canon.

 

[The Cockatrice]

In my head Palapatine in his prime vs Vader in his prime, Palapatine would still win but not by raw force. Vader has stronger force power but Palpatine is like the warlock of all force users. He has so many tricks up his sleeve, he would always outmaneuver Vader.

 

[AJUMP23]

No he didn’t. Palatine survived being blown up on the Death Star.

Rey killed Palpatine.

That’s official Star Wars canon.

SOMEHOW HE SURVIVED!

 

[Ulysses 31]

SOMEHOW HE SURVIVED!

I think there was a book describing that he "force transferred" into a clone body or something, his body was destroyed with the death star.