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[DeepBreath87]

I disagree.

Stevie Wonder has been blind pretty much all his life, yet a lot of his lyrics are full of vivid imagery.

While this is true, if Stevie started trying to give me his personal, original thoughts on Van Gogh’s work, I would’ve been curious about where he was getting that from. Hell, if he started talking about his favorite color, you’d have to take it with a pretty big grain of salt.

Likewise when a person whose entire concept of existence comes almost exclusively second hand, I am not going to take their original political or societal opinions all that seriously. She goes on about the plight of labour and has all these opinions about difficult societal problems, but she has experience none of them. She doesn’t really even have the frame of reference to imagine them herself. Her entire world was based on whatever her handlers exposed her to and nothing else. She was the most easily manipulated person there could possibly be.

 

[DeafTourette]

While this is true, if Stevie started trying to give me his personal, original thoughts on Van Gogh’s work, I would’ve been curious about where he was getting that from. Hell, if he started talking about his favorite color, you’d have to take it with a pretty big grain of salt.

Likewise when a person whose entire concept of existence comes almost exclusively second hand, I am not going to take their original political or societal opinions all that seriously. She goes on about the plight of labour and has all these opinions about difficult societal problems, but she has experience none of them. She doesn’t really even have the frame of reference to imagine them herself. Her entire world was based on whatever her handlers exposed her to and nothing else. She was the most easily manipulated person there could possibly be.

All she has to do is read (braille) and listen (hand contact ASL) about these things. Your eyes don't tell the whole picture, neither do your ears. I have read about things I still haven't experienced (Quantum Entanglement) yet I can explain it in a 4 page paper ... there were, and are, multiple things typed in braille and sign language has been around for a LONG time.

You say she can't possibly know these things because she is deaf-blind but I counter that she was in a unique position to understand better than most.

"She was led and therefore is a puppet" is almost EXACTLY saying she wasn't smart enough to be her own person. Her family members could have also learned hand contact ASL to communicate with her. Just like many families out there that learn for their deaf, hard of hearing and deaf-blind family.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I'm curious. If someone is born deaf and blind and can solely only go on hand contact, braille, and let's say the latest news in the world everyone is talking about is there's a war in Iraq involving oilfields. And there's burning rigs and soliders fighting.

If you were born not being able to see or hear what exactly is war, soldier, fighting, oil rigs or that Iraq is in the mid east etc.... how would someone like Helen Keller even know how to understand a situation like this?

I'm trying to get at what Deepbreath is getting at. I quickly skimmed something online that Helen Keller wrote "Our Great Responsibility" and it talks about war treaties and such. How would she even understand the concept of a treaty? How can someone in this situation even grasp the concept of "protocols", "foundation", and the majority of this speech?

Helen Keller's speech "Our Great Responsibility" advocating for world peace over war 1931

Helen Keller Archive

www.afb.org

Our Great responsibility.

Dear Friends^ I have chosen for my talk this morning our Great Responsibility --- choosing between' warl peace and. another world war. Upon our choice in this momentous issue depends the future of America and of all countries. In the broadest sense, it is in the power of the peoples to bring about permanent peace and universal good-will. It is for us to fix our minds on this tremendous fact and refuse to be turned aside by the argument that men have always fought, and will always fight. It is true that in 1815 the Holy Alliance was established to put an end to militarism, but Instead of disappearing armies and navies have grown more formidable that is because there has not been a consistent and intelligent education for peace. The time to achieve peace is now. The way to succeed is to forget the past of fear and hate, to build up a powerful public opinion against war and prepare ourselves with all our might to live peaceably among the peoples of the earth. We have had thirteen years of peace talk. A war-weary world has listened to endless promises, prophecies and great expectations, and what has come of it all? Pacts and protocols have been signed, and the governments are still increasing their armies and navies, piling debts upon debts in a mad effort to be secure against attack. Thirteen years ago millions of young men gave their lives for liberty and world security, and what have the nations to show for that appalling sacrifice? The Great War ended disastrously for both victor and vanquished. The peace treaty at Versailles did not bring true.peace, but laid the foundation for other wars. There are a million more soldiers in Europe today than at the beginning of 1914, and what security has Europe? The governments continue to increase their armaments, to line their frontiers with underground fortifications, to build ever larger air-fleets and to store up unimaginable quantities of deadly gases. They hold conferences that add to the confusion* It seems to me, the time has come to insist that the peace talk shall bear fruit in constructive action. If we are to accomplish permanent

 

[DeepBreath87]

All she has to do is read (braille) and listen (hand contact ASL) about these things. Your eyes don't tell the whole picture, neither do your ears. I have read about things I still haven't experienced (Quantum Entanglement) yet I can explain it in a 4 page paper ... there were, and are, multiple things typed in braille and sign language has been around for a LONG time.

You say she can't possibly know these things because she is deaf-blind but I counter that she was in a unique position to understand better than most.

"She was led and therefore is a puppet" is almost EXACTLY saying she wasn't smart enough to be her own person. Her family members could have also learned hand contact ASL to communicate with her. Just like many families out there that learn for their deaf, hard of hearing and deaf-blind family.

She was entirely at the mercy of these people. They literally controlled the lens by which she experienced the world. She wasn’t in a unique position to know anything except what things smell like or taste like or feel like. Her world was SIGNIFICANTLY more filtered and restrained than the rest of us in that she relied entirely on the description of events by other people to form her opinions. And her ability be exposed to these descriptions was controlled by the people around her. She couldn’t experience anything without them. They got to filter and shape her entire world.

 

[DeepBreath87]

I'm curious. If someone is born deaf and blind and can solely only go on hand contact, braille, and let's say the latest news in the world everyone is talking about is there's a war in Iraq involving oilfields. And there's burning rigs and soliders fighting.

If you were born not being able to see or hear what exactly is war, soldier, fighting, oil rigs or that Iraq is in the mid east etc.... how would someone like Helen Keller even know how to understand a situation like this?

I'm trying to get at what Deepbreath is getting at. I quickly skimmed something online that Helen Keller wrote "Our Great Responsibility" and it talks about war treaties and such. How would she even understand the concept of a treaty? How can someone in this situation even grasp the concept of "protocols", "foundation", and the majority of this speech?

Helen Keller's speech "Our Great Responsibility" advocating for world peace over war 1931

Helen Keller Archive

www.afb.org

Our Great responsibility.

Dear Friends^ I have chosen for my talk this morning our Great Responsibility --- choosing between' warl peace and. another world war. Upon our choice in this momentous issue depends the future of America and of all countries. In the broadest sense, it is in the power of the peoples to bring about permanent peace and universal good-will. It is for us to fix our minds on this tremendous fact and refuse to be turned aside by the argument that men have always fought, and will always fight. It is true that in 1815 the Holy Alliance was established to put an end to militarism, but Instead of disappearing armies and navies have grown more formidable that is because there has not been a consistent and intelligent education for peace. The time to achieve peace is now. The way to succeed is to forget the past of fear and hate, to build up a powerful public opinion against war and prepare ourselves with all our might to live peaceably among the peoples of the earth. We have had thirteen years of peace talk. A war-weary world has listened to endless promises, prophecies and great expectations, and what has come of it all? Pacts and protocols have been signed, and the governments are still increasing their armies and navies, piling debts upon debts in a mad effort to be secure against attack. Thirteen years ago millions of young men gave their lives for liberty and world security, and what have the nations to show for that appalling sacrifice? The Great War ended disastrously for both victor and vanquished. The peace treaty at Versailles did not bring true.peace, but laid the foundation for other wars. There are a million more soldiers in Europe today than at the beginning of 1914, and what security has Europe? The governments continue to increase their armaments, to line their frontiers with underground fortifications, to build ever larger air-fleets and to store up unimaginable quantities of deadly gases. They hold conferences that add to the confusion* It seems to me, the time has come to insist that the peace talk shall bear fruit in constructive action. If we are to accomplish permanent

Not to mention, whatever experience she drew from to form her opinions was second or third hand, chosen by her handlers. She couldn’t experience anything related to the topics at hand without their help. It would be like if I locked you in a sensory deprivation chamber from the time you were 2, but I hand selected audiobooks to be piped in. I would be willing to bet I could make you believe whatever I wanted.

 

[lethial]

Ya know, I was looking at her Wikipedia page a couple of weeks ago and it all seemed kinda fishy.

Whats really fishy is a dead person having a Wikipedia page. Who the hell is updating it!?!

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Not to mention, whatever experience she drew from to form her opinions was second or third hand, chosen by her handlers. She couldn’t experience anything related to the topics at hand without their help. It would be like if I locked you in a sensory deprivation chamber from the time you were 2, but I hand selected audiobooks to be piped in. I would be willing to bet I could make you believe whatever I wanted.

Now someone might say Hellen Keller requested random braille newspapers and magazines etc.... so she can read them and form her own opinion on the subject matter.

But that would assume there's enough content out there at the time for someone to do their own research and someone like Keller being able to understand everything written in it and have the time to digest it all and form an opinion about it.

 

[DeepBreath87]

Now someone might say Hellen Keller requested random braille newspapers and magazines etc.... so she can read them and form her own opinion on the subject matter.

But that would assume there's enough content out there at the time for someone to do their own research and someone like Keller being able to understand everything written in it and have the time to digest it all and form an opinion about it.

Not to mention her awareness of what was available was dependent on those same people. It’s not like she could stroll down to the library and start going through the stacks.

 

[EviLore]

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Not to mention her awareness of what was available was dependent on those same people. It’s not like she could stroll down to the library and start going through the stacks.

I don't know if you did but read the cut/paste I did above. I think it's Page 1 of a multi page speech.

Who knows. Maybe Helen Keller is simply a genius who could do anything with braille and hand contact, but aside from some spelling mistakes the verbiage doesn't sound like it comes from someone born deaf and blind. As DeafTourette said, proper english grammar isn't even done at that level, but her writing skills with proper grammar is surprisingly good and her understanding or words, placement and knowledge of wars seem good too.

 

[TheMan]

Was she ever in a romantic relationship? Did she die a virgin?

 

[DeafTourette]

StreetsofBeige DeepBreath87

I GAVE y'all an example of a deaf-blind person (one I personally knew) who had understanding of complex issues. I knew the ASL interpreters and could UNDERSTAND his own signs... He understood the things happening in the world. When you rely on your sight and hearing so much to experience the world around you, you become blind to how others experience the world. It's alien to y'all because you can't appreciate that people like my late friend Mark, or even me, can experience the world accurately... Or just differently and still come to accurate conclusions.

 

[DeafTourette]

I don't know if you did but read the cut/paste I did above. I think it's Page 1 of a multi page speech.

Who knows. Maybe Helen Keller is simply a genius who could do anything with braille and hand contact, but aside from some spelling mistakes the verbiage doesn't sound like it comes from someone born deaf and blind. As DeafTourette said, proper english grammar isn't even done at that level, but her writing skills with proper grammar is surprisingly good and her understanding or words, placement and knowledge of wars seem good too.

Let me amend something.. plenty of deaf people read and write in English... Very well, in fact. I have a few friends who were born deaf and are quite adept in written English.

It's just that the vast majority of deaf people in the US use ASL and not English.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Just caught up to the thread and I am am right there with you lol


Thank god for the weekend. *takes drink*

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Let me amend something.. plenty of deaf people read and write in English... Very well, in fact. I have a few friends who were born deaf and are quite adept in written English.

It's just that the vast majority of deaf people in the US use ASL and not English.

I never said I doubted people who are solely deaf or solely blind.

But explain to me and Deepbreath how someone deaf and blind from birth can understand the world so in depth regarding war treaties with excellent grammar, and write scholarly speeches without someone feeding them info?

You even said to me standard English is different than ASL or language blind/deaf people may use. So how would she be able to write a speech like that in my post above?

 

[Nobody_Important]

Was she ever in a romantic relationship? Did she die a virgin?

"Was Helen Keller a virgin?" was not on my "Entire Life" bingo card, but here we are.

 

[Mistake]

Denial is my favorite in terms of conspiracy theories.
-COVID? Fake
-Earth? Not round
-Holocaust? Didn’t happen
-Atom Bomb? Nope
-Moon landing? Never went
-Helen Keller? Paid actor

 

[Nobody_Important]

Denial is my favorite in terms of conspiracy theories.
-COVID? Fake
-Earth? Not round
-Holocaust? Didn’t happen
-Atom Bomb? Nope
-Moon landing? Never went
-Helen Keller? Paid actor

Don't forget that Jets run on compressed air, the governments of the world want a one world government, and that the world is actually controlled by a cabal of capitalist Jewish overlords.



And do not even get me started on the lizard men making the price of gas go up.

 

[DeafTourette]

I never said I doubted people who are solely deaf or solely blind.

But explain to me and Deepbreath how someone deaf and blind from birth can understand the world so in depth regarding war treaties with excellent grammar, and write scholarly speeches without someone feeding them info?

You even said to me standard English is different than ASL or language blind/deaf people may use. So how would she be able to write a speech like that in my post above?

OMG... You realize she wasn't and ISN'T the only deaf blind person to ever exist, right? And I gave you an example of a deaf-blind person who was well respected in the deaf community, right?

How is this so hard to understand, dude?

 

[Dr. Claus]

I never said I doubted people who are solely deaf or solely blind.

But explain to me and Deepbreath how someone deaf and blind from birth can understand the world so in depth regarding war treaties with excellent grammar, and write scholarly speeches without someone feeding them info?

You even said to me standard English is different than ASL or language blind/deaf people may use. So how would she be able to write a speech like that in my post above?

 

[Mistake]

OMG... You realize she wasn't and ISN'T the only deaf blind person to ever exist, right? And I gave you an example of a deaf-blind person who was well respected in the deaf community, right?

How is this so hard to understand, dude?

I’m sure in 10 years, you could show a picture of Stephen Hawking to some people and they wouldn’t believe he was an author. This is what museums are for

 

[funkygunther]

But explain to me and Deepbreath how someone deaf and blind from birth can understand the world so in depth regarding war treaties with excellent grammar, and write scholarly speeches without someone feeding them info?

Because she was born with a functioning brain, which she knew how to use

 

[Javthusiast]

Now hold the fucking phone.


Who is Helen Keller?

 

[Boss Mog]

Yeah no, comparing conspiracy youtubers, flat-earthers, moon hoaxers and anti-vaxxers to genius level astronomers is f*cking dumb. The general public having trouble coping with heliocentrism doesn't automatically validate modern day conspiracy theories. If you thinkg toherwise, tell me one single conspiracy theory that even holds any shred of scientific merit.

Also, simply being contrarian is not the same as "questioning things". Critical thinking is not synonymous with merely saying "no" or adopting a minority position.

Apparently my response to you was deleted for being "antagonistic" even though I find your response to me to be completely out of line and a strong personal attack against me because it has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. So let me try to rephrase things in a non-antagonistic way. At what point in my post did I equate flat-earthers and anti-vaxxers to genius level astronomers? At what point did I say that taking a contrarian view should always be seen as critical thinking? At what point in my post did I say that I agreed with the guys in the video about Helen Keller as your post seems to imply? My post was merely responding to a generalization to say that not all people who question "the word" should automatically be branded "conspiracy theorists" and that questioning things throughout history has exposed many untruths. So next time please don't just make things up that I never said if you want to reply to one of my posts. Thank you and I hope you have a good weekend.

 

[DeepBreath87]

StreetsofBeige DeepBreath87

I GAVE y'all an example of a deaf-blind person (one I personally knew) who had understanding of complex issues. I knew the ASL interpreters and could UNDERSTAND his own signs... He understood the things happening in the world. When you rely on your sight and hearing so much to experience the world around you, you become blind to how others experience the world. It's alien to y'all because you can't appreciate that people like my late friend Mark, or even me, can experience the world accurately... Or just differently and still come to accurate conclusions.

Again. She was the among the most easily manipulated people ever to exist. Her ability to experience the world was entirely dependent upon what she was allowed to be exposed to by her handlers and her ability to imagine a world she could only personally interact with via touch, taste, and smell.

It’s no coincidence that Keller’s opinions mirror those of Anne Sullivan. That doesn’t mean Keller was unable to form opinions. But let’s not pretend Hellen Keller had some uniquely valuable insight into the world because she had to imagine what everything looked and sounded like. And let’s not pretend it isn’t pretty obvious why she ended up mirroring the opinions of the only person she could communicate with directly for most of her life.

 

[DeafTourette]

Again. She was the among the most easily manipulated people ever to exist. Her ability to experience the world was entirely dependent upon what she was allowed to be exposed to by her handlers and her ability to imagine a world she could only personally interact with via touch, taste, and smell.

It’s no coincidence that Keller’s opinions mirror those of Anne Sullivan. That doesn’t mean Keller was unable to form opinions. But let’s not pretend Hellen Keller had some uniquely valuable insight into the world because she had to imagine what everything looked and sounded like. And let’s not pretend it isn’t pretty obvious why she ended up mirroring the opinions of the only person she could communicate with directly for most of her life.

Know what? I'm done. Believe what you want. I don't know what Sullivan HERSELF believed or what her political opinions were, NOR those of Keller... But every time I see posts like this I see "deaf-blind person is a puppet and can't think for themselves" ... Nevermind that MULTIPLE people had access to Keller to help her, not only be able to communicate but also to speak. Her parents were wealthy and clearly had their daughter's best interest at heart since she had all that help which led her further than most hearing people.

But yeah. I'm done. Enjoy! Peace!

 

[DeepBreath87]

Know what? I'm done. Believe what you want. I don't know what Sullivan HERSELF believed or what her political opinions were, NOR those of Keller... But every time I see posts like this I see "deaf-blind person is a puppet and can't think for themselves" ... Nevermind that MULTIPLE people had access to Keller to help her, not only be able to communicate but also to speak. Her parents were wealthy and clearly had their daughter's best interest at heart since she had all that help which led her further than most hearing people.

But yeah. I'm done. Enjoy! Peace!

I can elucidate that for you:

Politics

www.afb.org

Anne's letters from Puerto Rico provide a rare glimpse into her political and social opinions. She was opposed to capitalism and the war, but her own hard, working-class background left her skeptical about the possibilities for real change. Helen held similar political views. She was an avowed socialist and pacifist.

I mean, the article even understates just how “similar” their views are. Sullivan and Keller have identical views. Which isn’t surprising.

I disagree with the guy in the video. It’s clear she wasn’t retarded. And her struggling to overcome her disabilities was admirable and inspiring. But I have stated my contention that she was easily manipulated by those around her, even if that manipulation was not malevolent and was relatively unconscious. Just based on the fact that her experience in and communication with the world was so limited.

So it’s only natural that she would be significantly shaped and molded by the few people she could communicate with and the information that they would expose her to. That doesn’t make them bad people and it doesn’t make her some kind of puppet. It’s makes her a product of the experiences to which she was exposed. And while that is true for all of us, her experiences were particularly limited and curated, so her worldview was similarly effected.

 

[FunkMiller]

Very much enjoying the people trying to deafsplain to an actual deaf person.

Peak fucking conspiracy internet stupidity.