I don't see how anyone could argue Korra isn't flawed lol. People were complaining about those flaws all throughout the show airing.
But should discuss that when OP has actually seen the show.
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Way too LTTP: Avatar The Last Airbender (Unmarked spoilers)
- Thread starter More_Badass
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But should discuss that when OP has actually seen the show.
I think that aside for the last battle, the best moment from Azula is when she starts seeing her mother. I was totally taken by surprise with that scene and her reaction:
I remember watching the scene was Katara and Zuko defeats her, then seeing Azula going crazy spitting and being amazed how incredible that scene was.
Funny thing, i remember not liking the show until that episode when Sokka gets trapped in a hole lol When Aang is learning Earth-bending.
Always nice to see one of these threads pop up, even after all this time. It's been years since I revisited the series, but reading reactions made me dig out some old pieces that I penned exploring its various facets:
It always astounds me how the show gelled into a cohesive and compelling whole that works on so many levels. I feel lucky to have stumbled across it.
It always astounds me how the show gelled into a cohesive and compelling whole that works on so many levels. I feel lucky to have stumbled across it.
The show holds up incredibly well on rewatches too. I watched it as it aired when I was like 13 or 14, but to this day I rewatch it at least once a year. It might be my favorite show, animated or otherwise.
The back half of season two, from about the library episode on, is like the most consistently amazing stretch of episodes from any show ever.
My personal favorite episode is the Desert. Not only do you get Sokka and Momo tripping on cactus juice, you also get one of my favorite moments in the series:
The back half of season two, from about the library episode on, is like the most consistently amazing stretch of episodes from any show ever.
My personal favorite episode is the Desert. Not only do you get Sokka and Momo tripping on cactus juice, you also get one of my favorite moments in the series:
Admiral Woofington
Member
My favorite comedic moment in the whole show was when they try to make it seem like Katara or someone else is Airbending and instead the guards think it was momo lol
Edit: how could I forget the moment of
*throws guard overboard*
"quickly get me the captain"
"sir that was the captain you just threw overboard"
Edit: how could I forget the moment of
*throws guard overboard*
"quickly get me the captain"
"sir that was the captain you just threw overboard"
I need to rewatch the series, as it's been a few years since I last saw it. I remember greatly appreciating the patience the show had with its long form narrative; some things are set up, built to, and paid off seasons apart. But those moments hit so incredibly hard as a result.
I remember Aang going into his Avatar state (IIRC, in his search for the then-missing Appa) and being brought down to earth by the mother of all hugs from Katara. I cried at that scene.
I remember Zuko deflecting his father's lightning back at him in the throne room, gracefully and with a confidence that he'd spent the last season building up to, in one of the great moments of catharsis I've ever felt watching a show.
It's a show where nuanced characters make hard decisions in the heat of the moment that sometimes surprise themselves. When Azula's friends spontaneously betray her (I think it was Ty Lee), doing the right thing and surprising everyone, themselves included, in that moment, and having the consequences set Azula on a totally different trajectory for the rest of the show. That moment and the fall out were purely, 100% character driven.
Zuku's arc was covered in the OP, but my god what an arc it is. I've never rooted so hard for a character to turn the direction he did, and felt so good when it happened. The show had a patience to it that I just love.
Toph is awesome, of course, but I can't help but feel she didn't get the character arc her character deserved. The pieces were there with her background and family, but it didn't come together. Still, she was a delight.
Well shit, someone is cutting onions or something...
I remember Aang going into his Avatar state (IIRC, in his search for the then-missing Appa) and being brought down to earth by the mother of all hugs from Katara. I cried at that scene.
I remember Zuko deflecting his father's lightning back at him in the throne room, gracefully and with a confidence that he'd spent the last season building up to, in one of the great moments of catharsis I've ever felt watching a show.
It's a show where nuanced characters make hard decisions in the heat of the moment that sometimes surprise themselves. When Azula's friends spontaneously betray her (I think it was Ty Lee), doing the right thing and surprising everyone, themselves included, in that moment, and having the consequences set Azula on a totally different trajectory for the rest of the show. That moment and the fall out were purely, 100% character driven.
Zuku's arc was covered in the OP, but my god what an arc it is. I've never rooted so hard for a character to turn the direction he did, and felt so good when it happened. The show had a patience to it that I just love.
Toph is awesome, of course, but I can't help but feel she didn't get the character arc her character deserved. The pieces were there with her background and family, but it didn't come together. Still, she was a delight.
Is that the hug I was talking about? It's my single favorite moment in the show. Just incredibly powerful, and IIRC done wordlessly. (Edit: yup, this one.)The show holds up incredibly well on rewatches too. I watched it as it aired when I was like 13 or 14, but to this day I rewatch it at least once a year. It might be my favorite show, animated or otherwise.
The back half of season two, from about the library episode on, is like the most consistently amazing stretch of episodes from any show ever.
My personal favorite episode is the Desert. Not only do you get Sokka and Momo tripping on cactus juice, you also get one of my favorite moments in the series:
Well shit, someone is cutting onions or something...
Admiral Woofington
Member
Toph also had the best "I'm blind" jokes in any medium
My favorite TV show of all time. Everything just comes together so beautifully and it has my favorite tone for storytelling.
I can never hate Aang for sticking to his no kill rule. I think a lot of people wanted the show to be something else when they gave him an alternative. But the show at it's core very optimistic. (The method in which they did it is another issue entirely.)
I cry every time Zuko finally admits that what his father did to him was abuse.
I cry for this scene too. Along with whenever I hear the music. Aang is my favorite character. He's such a good protagonist. He might not have as complex or drastic of an arc as Zuko at first glance, but I think there's interesting stuff going on about enlightenment, happiness, and survival.
I can never hate Aang for sticking to his no kill rule. I think a lot of people wanted the show to be something else when they gave him an alternative. But the show at it's core very optimistic. (The method in which they did it is another issue entirely.)
I think the problem was not having Aaron Eshaz as the head writer to iron out their more cliche or uninteresting ideas and execution.
m_shortpants
Member
I have no idea how they accomplished it.
The series is just so good on all levels. Writing, animation, art, story, themes.
When you see how Korra flubs all of these it almost seems like The Last Airbender was the perfect accident.
The series is just so good on all levels. Writing, animation, art, story, themes.
When you see how Korra flubs all of these it almost seems like The Last Airbender was the perfect accident.
SomeRandomWeirdGuy
Member
If you do watch Korra, keep your expectations extremely low. People always say "Oh season 3 is great" but even then, it's a shadow of AtLA. The much vaunted Wan Arc in Season 2 of Korra, while great in isolation, is completely at odds with the rest of the lore of Avatar, and I personally consider it noncanon.
There are great fights all throughout Korra, but without the attachment to the characters and conflicts that you get in AtLA, they just don't have the same impact.
I do recommend watching it if only to form your own opinion, but I really didn't enjoy it much.
There are great fights all throughout Korra, but without the attachment to the characters and conflicts that you get in AtLA, they just don't have the same impact.
I do recommend watching it if only to form your own opinion, but I really didn't enjoy it much.
"Admiral Woofington
Member
The scene of him freaking out over appa is super sad man. Thats his best friend, and his only living reminder of his past life.
Avatar may be one of the greatest experiences I had. It was my favorite animated show for a long long time, but it's still in the top three nowadays.
My favorite characters are Zuko, Iroh and Sokka.
As for kids shows being surprisingly adult, I would recommend watching the following video from channel awesome(it includes a shout-out to Avatar):
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fXzmUfoKCqQ
It certainly put Adventure Time and Steven Universe on my radar for shows I'm interested in.
My favorite characters are Zuko, Iroh and Sokka.
As for kids shows being surprisingly adult, I would recommend watching the following video from channel awesome(it includes a shout-out to Avatar):
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fXzmUfoKCqQ
It certainly put Adventure Time and Steven Universe on my radar for shows I'm interested in.
That scene is also the strongest single example of the special relationship between Aang and Katara.
Such a fantastic show and it still holds up so well. Glad you liked it op. I still adore how well the character treatment/growth of zuko is done throughout the show. Such a fantastic character arc.
The avatar comics are worth a look into as they continue on from where the show finished and answer some unresolved plot points
. They're solid enough but nothing too amazing. Just nice to be back in the avatar world again.
Korra is also a pretty great followup if pretty flawed at times.
The avatar comics are worth a look into as they continue on from where the show finished and answer some unresolved plot points
cough zuko's mum
Korra is also a pretty great followup if pretty flawed at times.
Huh
"Oh, no! What a nightmare!"
More_Badass
Member
Yup, it's really a testament to how strong the character development and storytelling is that it can deliver such emotional moments
Feels: The Show.
Like seeing Zuko and Iroh in the first and final episodes, the journey they've gone on makes that hug so satisfying
Zuko's mom's fate is explained in one of the continuation comics that are set between Avatar and Korra, but it was a really terrible explanation (IMO obviously) and I don't recommend reading the comics (not just because of the Zuko's mom thing).
I complained about Legend of Korra doing pretty much the opposite thing (not exactly). Some Korra fans called it a bold creative decision (let's see if it pays off for them Cotton... nope, it doesn't), and said it would have been boring if Mike and Bryan merely stuck to ideas that worked.
Use that as a hint for the kind of experience you need to brace for with Korra.
That hug breaks me into tears every time.
My favorite TV show. I still rewatch it every now and then. I can't think of anything wrong with it; the characters, setting, bending, animation, story, everything is just awesome.
I'd recommend not listening to the frequent arguments here about Korra, they get toxic pretty quickly. I'd say just watch it and form your own opinions.
but you got the right vibe about the live action movie. it's kind of fun to hate on, but that's it's only redeeming quality.
I'd recommend not listening to the frequent arguments here about Korra, they get toxic pretty quickly. I'd say just watch it and form your own opinions.
but you got the right vibe about the live action movie. it's kind of fun to hate on, but that's it's only redeeming quality.
SoulUnison
Banned
There's a crazed laugh that Azula does while charging the "camera" during the finale that is absolutely the gold standard for "vicious and insane."
Also make sure to give Avatar Spirits a watch to get some great insight into the making of Avatar
It's a pretty good show. Not flawless, the first season was lacking in a lot of the themes that season 2 would eventually develop, and I think the third season was trying to do too much in too few episodes, but it's still incredible what the show managed to accomplish. I will say one good thing watching Korra did for me was that it made me appreciate ATLA much better.
Theanine3D
Member
Shreds ATLA's legacy at every turn, there are times I wish I hadn't bothered with it.
I feel the same way about Korra. It's got some awesome fight scenes with really stellar animation and a nice soundtrack, but the story was so damn terrible. I wish it was non-canon.
I won't tell anyone to not watch it though, because it's probably the last show in the Avatar universe we'll ever get. Not really any other options if you're hungry for more after finishing A:TLA. It's sad.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Yep; that's why it works so much better than most other shows - you can tell they mapped out where the plot was going across all three seasons and nary an episode was wasted. I adore Zuko's arc, and that conversation he has with his father in the Day of the Black Sun episode is so amazing; he'd grown so much as a character. I love all the characters really, and the ending is just so perfect (the entire four-parter Sozin's Comet is just fantastic all around and possibly the greatest climax and ending to a TV show I've ever seen). A lot of American TV shows run on and on way past their best, but Avatar very smartly had it all planned out in advance and ended on a high - and this is one regard it far excels above (the still enjoyable) Korra, as that show feels like four separate seasons with not a great deal linking them - although 3 & 4 tie in pretty nicely.
Anyone who likes this should also watch Voltron on Netflix, as I believe it's by many of the same creative team and it has a similar mix of good action, humour and really likeable characters.
Triggerhappytel
Member
I remember watching the scene was Katara defeat her and seeing Azula going crazy spitting fire and being amazed how incredible that scene was.
Funny thing, i remember not liking the show until that episode when Sokka gets trapped in a hole lol When Aang is learning Earth-bending.
It's great. The entire agni-kai (sp?) battle between Zuko and Azula is fantastic, and Grey DeLisle does a fantastic job with the voice acting and sells the shit out of her fragile mental state.
Royal_Flush
Member
I really need to rewatch this show. I loved it as a kid.
But I recently watched Korra. I think the big problem with that one is that it has no patience (Just like Korra herself, if you think of it). Only season 3 bothers to be more quiet, to build up to something and to explore the characters instead of just slamming plotpoint after plotpoint into your phase. What a shame.
But I recently watched Korra. I think the big problem with that one is that it has no patience (Just like Korra herself, if you think of it). Only season 3 bothers to be more quiet, to build up to something and to explore the characters instead of just slamming plotpoint after plotpoint into your phase. What a shame.
Triggerhappytel
Member
The bit when Zuko finds Iroh and apologises never fails to make me well up. Again, the voice acting is amazing and the character had just grown so much.
The show is fantastic and I really wasn't expecting to like it until I saw it a little over a year ago.
I like to refer to it as the Star Wars of cartoons:
And yes, after binging the first series I'm still only up to Season 2 of Korra.
I like to refer to it as the Star Wars of cartoons:
- A story launched into motion due to genocide, following the story of what we believe is the last of his kind, a last hope.
- Three acts.
- First ends with the villains being beaten followed by a giant celebration.
- Second ends with the hero leaving his training prematurely only to end in a great loss.
- Third ends with the villain being beaten.
- The scarred villain of the first act who is menacing is actually torn with being good, finally turning face at the end, with a connection to the hero.
- The true villain, who isn't really shown until the very end, is just a one dimensional character which is necessary for the story - absolute evil in juxtaposition to a hodgepodge of colorful characters.
- Then the followup is weak in comparison and debunks the mystique. Just finished the Korra episode where it flashes back to the first Avatar and that is some straight up midichlorians.
And yes, after binging the first series I'm still only up to Season 2 of Korra.
They had some great fights in Korra, all were several tiers below Aang v Ozai and Zuko v Azula
Fucking Hell m8, just wait.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Yeah, I've been trying to get lots of friends to watch this, and always describe it as basically an ancient Chinese/Asia Star Wars with monks and magic instead of Jedi. Currently with a friend at the moment actually - I will have to see if he's watched it yet.
I think
Suyin vs. Kuvira
the Beifong family.
Kotetsu534
Member
One episode that has an emotional subtlety that's almost unheard of in animation, and isn't mentioned all too often, is the one where Katara and Zuko hunt down the man who killed Sokka and Katara's mother. It's shot in muted, dark colours, and Katara is merciless in seeking him out. In the end she chooses not to kill him, not out of forgiveness as such, but because he's became such a pathetic, withered excuse of a man that she can't bring herself to. The animation of that sequence in the rain is as impressive as almost anything I've ever seen.
the last airbender is just wonderful. there's so much effort put into it at every turn - the voice acting, the music, the designs - the research just put into the look of the world and the movements of bending is astounding. it would have been easy to make everything look vaguely 'asian' and have a dumb wannabe anime thing going on (which is what i thought the show actually was for a really long time), but they put in the work and give a sense of history and meaning to just about everything.
and the show is funny, with strong dramatic moments, and great characters, and it's well-written. it's almost staggering to believe that something like this could get made. the last airbender is goddamn magic.
the legend of korra on the other hand is really divisive. i don't like book 2, but i can give huge passes to a lot of the other seasons. it really comes down to whether or not you can see where the main character is coming from. unlike atla, the supporting cast isn't very strong, the writing isn't nearly as sharp, and the show wasn't planned from start to finish: only 3 and 4 were ever meant to connect with each other. i do like korra though, both the show and the character. i just wouldn't consider it to be 'more avatar'.
and the show is funny, with strong dramatic moments, and great characters, and it's well-written. it's almost staggering to believe that something like this could get made. the last airbender is goddamn magic.
the legend of korra on the other hand is really divisive. i don't like book 2, but i can give huge passes to a lot of the other seasons. it really comes down to whether or not you can see where the main character is coming from. unlike atla, the supporting cast isn't very strong, the writing isn't nearly as sharp, and the show wasn't planned from start to finish: only 3 and 4 were ever meant to connect with each other. i do like korra though, both the show and the character. i just wouldn't consider it to be 'more avatar'.
Wolf Akela
Member
Absolute worst point of the entire series. I think I quit watching for a long while because of this season. I couldn't handle seeing Korra doing the same dumb things she did and SUPPOSEDLY learned not to do in season 1.
atla was planned as a three-part series.
korra was planned as a 12-episode miniseries. but then they got another season (which was supposed to be the end). then 3 and 4 were renewed at the same time.
that was probably the biggest issue with korra. season 1 had to wrap up the way it did because of how it was planned. season 2 was probably a surprise to everyone, which could explain why the animation was handled by two teams. season 3 is a return to form for all parties involved, and season 4 is harmless.
my head canon for korra season 2 is
she basically got all her powers back without learning a damn thing at the end of season 1. in season 1 she's 'the avatar' and has a high opinion of herself. this gets reinforced when she finally airbends, defeats amon, and gets her powers back due to aang shenanigans. from that, she could have essentially learned nothing from what had happened with amon, thinking it was more of an isolated incident and that she was right, and still awesome, the entire time.
it's only season 3 when she starts to change, and in season 4 she finally matures.
it's only season 3 when she starts to change, and in season 4 she finally matures.
season 2 is really really dumb though, and fully of stupid things, so i'm not giving it a pass, but her characterization within all of korra didn't bug me much.
GordonHalfman
Member
I keep wanting to get this on DVD but there's a lot of reviews for the UK release that complain about the quality and there's apparently no bluray release at all.
Theanine3D
Member
I don't disagree. Those two fights are probably my most favorite fights in any animated show ever.
The Last Airbender was brilliant, and I don't know of any other an animated show that has ever come close to it.
obijkenobi
Member
The Zuko face-turn was DONE perfectly. People wanted him to change at the end of season 2, but Zuko really needed to experience how his honor wasn't restored to him by "killing the Avatar". Both he and his sister got what they thought they wanted, and find out after the fact that it wasn't really what they needed. Having Zuko be related to Roku and Sozin was such a perfect metaphor for that character.
UnnecessaryTodd
Member
Shreds ATLA's legacy at every turn, there are times I wish I hadn't bothered with it.
Season 3 was pretty decent though.
Echoing these. Legend of Korra has huge problems with pacing, almost non-existent character growth (at least, character growth that matters and lasts more than a couple episodes) and it also completely retcons or changes things that are established in ATLA.
Particularly in regards to the Spirit World.
In my opinion season 1 makes for a good mini-series since that was its original intention, but everything after that is an absolute mess.
Season 2 is universally considered to be terrible on all fronts with a botched story and completely undoing and/or ignoring everything from Season 1.
Season 3 is highly regarded but it still has issues in terms of developing the villains, and Korra's character and her friends at this point are completely inconsequential and simply serve as vehicles for the plot.
Season 4.... Mechs. Why on earth are there mechs. It completely shits on what made ATLA so great. Kuvira is not a good villain, not even slightly. And the fact that it's solved by a speech at the end and she just becomes convinced? She either had absolutely zero conviction or it was bad writing and I think we can all admit it's the latter.
In my opinion season 1 makes for a good mini-series since that was its original intention, but everything after that is an absolute mess.
Season 2 is universally considered to be terrible on all fronts with a botched story and completely undoing and/or ignoring everything from Season 1.
Season 3 is highly regarded but it still has issues in terms of developing the villains, and Korra's character and her friends at this point are completely inconsequential and simply serve as vehicles for the plot.
Season 4.... Mechs. Why on earth are there mechs. It completely shits on what made ATLA so great. Kuvira is not a good villain, not even slightly. And the fact that it's solved by a speech at the end and she just becomes convinced? She either had absolutely zero conviction or it was bad writing and I think we can all admit it's the latter.
One of the biggest disappointments that isn't related to the poorly written narrative is the action/fights. They just aren't as good. All finesse is removed from the fights and they are completely devolved into FIRE PUNCH, WIND PUNCH etc. It makes all the fights feel cut and paste.
Honestly OP, I would at least take a break between ATLA and Korra if you end up watching it at all. I would recommend against it but many people would disagree so... if nothing else let this temper your expectations because Korra is in every way an inferior product.
I would however, wholeheartedly recommend Steven Universe. It succeeds in all the ways that ATLA does and more. It does take about 26 episodes to hit its stride with the deeper plot, but the episodes are only 11 minutes so it's about the same as ATLA. The character development is on par if not better than ATLA (as the series has a much greater focus on personal development and character growth). The first 6 or so episodes are rough and the characters can seem very flat initially but you will quickly see the layers of depth that are there and it's pretty much a non-stop rollercoaster ride once the ball starts rolling.
It's really great, even though it's obvious Fire Nation is largely Imperial Japan + bits of China, Earth Kingdom is China + Korea, Water Tribes are Inuit-ish cultures and Air Nomads are Tibetian/Nepalese there's still this wonderful sense of each of the great nations with their own history and culture. There's no straight up direct "We wholesale took this culture and slapped a fantasy skin on it" thing going on.
obijkenobi
Member
Can we also talk about how HYPE the season 3 trailers were at the time? Goddamn
Aang with hair? Who is the bad ass looking dude with the sword? Aang flying into the capital of the FIRE NATION!??! WUTUTUTUTUTT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IprN2CynxNI
ZUKO AND AANG TRAINING TOGETHER!?! DRAGONS!?!??! Ozai facing off against Aang with Sozin's comet rising right behind Aang?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5avd9_8rXH0
Aang with hair? Who is the bad ass looking dude with the sword? Aang flying into the capital of the FIRE NATION!??! WUTUTUTUTUTT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IprN2CynxNI
ZUKO AND AANG TRAINING TOGETHER!?! DRAGONS!?!??! Ozai facing off against Aang with Sozin's comet rising right behind Aang?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5avd9_8rXH0
Triggerhappytel
Member
That episode is fantastic, and it's there where we find out just how OP Katara is. I love how vengeful she became, but even so she couldn't commit to murdering someone. The episodes where everyone has their little outing with Zuko are all great - I love the one where he and Aang visit the ancient dragons, or where he and Zuko go to the Boiling Rock prison (which was where I fell in love with Suki).
WrenchNinja
Member
I always link to your Aang article when people say he doesn't develop
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