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We are now officially entering Earth's Sixth Mass Extinction Event
- Thread starter Amir0x
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aGuyInaBearSuit
Member
Soon...
Jackbooted
Member
While I appreciate the update on how we are totally screwed unless we do something (nothing new there), what are we actively doing to prevent this extinction? You say we need to do something, which is good, but talk is just that talk. Is posting on NeoGAF doing something? Engaging in console warz on Gaming side?
Humans are great at pointing out flaws but not always so great at doing something to fix them before it smacks them in the face. I expect the exact same to happen here. I can easily foresee a large portion of the world's population dying off but there will be segments of humanity that will survive either through convenient geographical location or due to a concentration of technology that will effectively counteract the extinction event.
Humans are great at pointing out flaws but not always so great at doing something to fix them before it smacks them in the face. I expect the exact same to happen here. I can easily foresee a large portion of the world's population dying off but there will be segments of humanity that will survive either through convenient geographical location or due to a concentration of technology that will effectively counteract the extinction event.
If I may chime in here, Spatula and Amir0x, it seems you two are actually on a similar page. Trends lead to results - good or bad. Neither of you are suggesting we cannot change that if we try. I will also again add, it is all onto our individual selves. We can attempt to change others minds, but it is our own conviction that will lead to real salvation (to put things dramatically). What we exude through that is what will really change others.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
I don't disagree with the first paragraph: it's a study to further illuminate the problem.
Government, corporations, and people have slowly been getting closer every day (awareness and cooperation wise). The increased scrutiny on wealth disparity will pay a part in relations. The problem with "too little" is that these scientists aren't amazeballs at every field: a marine biologist will not know electrical engineering, and this plays part in the prediction. Change will be gradual and won't happen over night or in the decade but we can see being actively done through legislation, renewable energy, energy usage (not as in global usage), etc..
I am confused. Are you declaring the world is doomed or are you trying to make people more aware of the issues we're facing? The doom part has always been a way to invoke change.
On an individual level, you can live a more sustainable lifestyle, recycle, vote for politicians who support legislation on major environmental standards and scientific research for green living and try to inform others as to the reality we will all soon be dealing with.
But if we don't continually remind people over the next two centuries about just how much it is every year, we really have no chance of survival because any change we will need to do will need the support of governments who will need the support of the people. And if the people aren't ready to get on board with accepting their responsibility for the current status quo and realizing they have to change it, our odds go down significantly.
Subpar Spatula said:
The problem isn't that some countries aren't improving. It's that there are huge portions of the world who aren't even developed/significantly industrialized, who will be joining the malaise in the next century. If we for example take a few major countries and see they are starting to reduce emissions but then 80 countries come up over the next century and begin to pump a huge amount more into the atmosphere, what progress have we made? And with the population increases expected, it gets even more dire.
Cow Mengde
Banned
I'm investing in solar energy, I don't own a car (at least until they're eco-friendly), and eating less meat. I'm also looking into investing in future technology like in door farming. In door farming is as you'd expect from the name. The advantage is that in door farming using 1% of the water of a regular farm, and no need for pesticide. It also uses solar energy and grows plants with LED lighting. That said, I don't know how to invest in this tech yet since it's out, I am keeping an eye on it, and trying to be aware of other eco-friendly technology that may spring up in the future.
And_Gignac
Member
Industrialization was a necessary event to happen in order for humanity to develop cleaner technologies. We should push for their inplementation and fight against reactionaries who want to keep the now useless, out dated industries that pollute.
And you cannot bully under developed countries to not industrialize. First world countries had their chance.
And you cannot bully under developed countries to not industrialize. First world countries had their chance.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Big offenders like China are reducing or have legislation in place to reduce. Developing countries will have issues, that's true. Trade, treaties, corporations are building great frame work for countries to be get more involved. Humans won't die out due to global warming, this will get bad but they will get better.
He'd eat you though if it came down to it. Survival of the fittest.
Well it's a good thing you know better than the scientific consensus. What did you have a PHD in again?
I'm being sarcastic, because you're claiming I'm being pessimistic without merit whilst I have scientific consensus on my side that it really is this dire, and yet you're making proclamations about how we're definitely going to survive the global warming, despite all the warning signs that things are on average getting worse, not better.
Jackbooted
Member
This is great and I applaud you for taking action on individual level. I honestly don't think your approach will work for everyone and as mentioned before, especially not the developing countries have absolutely no interest in limiting themselves. When you step back and think about it, the only thing that will get humanity to change on a scale large enough to actually make an impact is a catastrophic event. Do we think that a small number of people in "first world" countries taking extreme actions by themselves will have a significant impact or should we accelerate the process to force change quickly? Is it a case of pulling the bandaid off slowly or quickly? Maybe I'm being over pessimistic.
Oh, I absolutely agree. All acts blossom internally and then become expressed externally. The problem is even internally, people are poisoned by the various social ideas their ego-image latches on to. If one looks at the world with duality - let's ignore the problem of doing this internally for now - one promotes conflict, of ingroups against outgroups, and the problems continue from there.
When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.
― Jiddu Krishnamurti
I have repeated that quote many a times here, but it's true. In the words of Bruce Lee (who was influenced by Krishnamurti): "styles separate man". So long as we divide people, or even the image of ourselves, we make a mess. And we have. It's why we value money the way we do, why we live with a total lack of giving a shit about anybody beyond our nest, failing to realize it all goes together. Religion, society, and almost all social impositions infer a clear duality, and as a result promote insoluble conflict. Where is the solution, other than rejection of almost all social structures?
And_Gignac
Member
The irony of you asking this question.
And he is right. Humanity won't die of global warming, we will adapt. Civilization may be hurt, though. Of course the better solution is to avoid global warming to expand altogether.
It's not ironic, because I never said I know better than the scientific consensus, I'm literally agreeing with it. Therefore, I am conceding my knowledge to their clearly superior knowledge base, which is based on the facts.
He is coming up with a certain prediction that is distinct from the scientific consensus, and therefore he must have some expert qualifications and studies in order to make such a certain claim.
Thus the sarcasm. Are we on the same page?
Again, exact same sarcasm to you. You're claiming certain things, whereas we have no evidence that this is going to happen, and tons of evidence that things are only getting worse and that governments continue to on average be apathetic to the sort of large scale changes that are going to be required to change the problem in time.
So, I'm asking where your scientific evidence is for this prediction, since mine has been presented.
So you know how, at some time in your life, you felt really really hungry. So you checked your wallet, and old dusty diesel wallet that you bought out of vanity but now its falling apart after years of use, but you don´t want to admit something that costed a pretty penny is not for life, so you are never going to throw it away, and in that wallet all you have is some expired pizza coupons, an old school photo of you that you hoped to give to a girlfriend someday but you never remembered, an old crumbled stamp of Jesus your mom made you carry with you, a paper with a crude drawing of your dog with a mustache, some (useless) cards and about 6 bucks and some change.
So you look around and there is a McDonalds there, your mind tries to remind you is an awful idea to go there, but the noise of your stomach deafens the sound. You go in, wait in line behind a frisky lady with a 1 gallon Diet coke under her arm and look at the menu behind the counter. By this point everything looks glorious, so you get so distracted that you don´t realize its your turn to orden and the hobo behind you sticks his finger in your back. You react, and quite ashamed go to the register to order.
You choose a classic combo, since its what you can afford. The girl at the register takes your order without looking you at the eyes, but you don´t really mind. You think to yourself that your time is important, even if its not, and order it to-go. You wait a few steps from the register for your order to be fulfilled and nervously look around, desperately trying to find something to distract yourself from the horrible hunger. You then remember you have now no money left for the bus fare home, so you will have to walk. Oh well, something to do while eating. The order is ready and given to you.
So now you are walking down the street sipping at your orange-lemon-apple-lemonade tea with ice that you made for yourself at the soda dispenser, and you try to convince yourself it was a good idea to make that mix. You can feel your stomach clearly struggling to comprehend what you inserted in it, since it was expecting food and all you gave it was a carbonated tropical hose down. Your burger and fries are still waiting at the bag, so you awkwardly try to put the soda in your armpit to free your burger. Miraculously you are able to do so without spilling your drink. So know you bite away at your BigMac while walking 40 blocks in the noisy, dusty streets of the community you live in.
The first bite is glorious. The second is good. By the third one, you feel something is wrong. But you are not going to admit your mistake. You just spend the rest of your money in sweet sweet nourishment and you are going to fucking savor every tissue of it.
You knew. You always knew. You could have waited to be home to eat something healthy. But you didn´t. You always get upset stomach while eating fast food. But you did anyway. By the time you are home, the hunger is gone but now a feeling of heaviness has taken over your body. You could have prevented this. You could have done better. You had the power to save yourself if you only had a little bit of self-control.
But you didn´t. You took the easy way out, the fast pass, the me first route. And now, when is too late, there is nothing to do about it.
You feel like crying. But you won´t. You feel like puking. But you can´t. You feel like going to the restroom. That you do.
It all went to shit. All you can do know is sit there and wait for the sweet sweet release.
It all went to shit.
So you look around and there is a McDonalds there, your mind tries to remind you is an awful idea to go there, but the noise of your stomach deafens the sound. You go in, wait in line behind a frisky lady with a 1 gallon Diet coke under her arm and look at the menu behind the counter. By this point everything looks glorious, so you get so distracted that you don´t realize its your turn to orden and the hobo behind you sticks his finger in your back. You react, and quite ashamed go to the register to order.
You choose a classic combo, since its what you can afford. The girl at the register takes your order without looking you at the eyes, but you don´t really mind. You think to yourself that your time is important, even if its not, and order it to-go. You wait a few steps from the register for your order to be fulfilled and nervously look around, desperately trying to find something to distract yourself from the horrible hunger. You then remember you have now no money left for the bus fare home, so you will have to walk. Oh well, something to do while eating. The order is ready and given to you.
So now you are walking down the street sipping at your orange-lemon-apple-lemonade tea with ice that you made for yourself at the soda dispenser, and you try to convince yourself it was a good idea to make that mix. You can feel your stomach clearly struggling to comprehend what you inserted in it, since it was expecting food and all you gave it was a carbonated tropical hose down. Your burger and fries are still waiting at the bag, so you awkwardly try to put the soda in your armpit to free your burger. Miraculously you are able to do so without spilling your drink. So know you bite away at your BigMac while walking 40 blocks in the noisy, dusty streets of the community you live in.
The first bite is glorious. The second is good. By the third one, you feel something is wrong. But you are not going to admit your mistake. You just spend the rest of your money in sweet sweet nourishment and you are going to fucking savor every tissue of it.
You knew. You always knew. You could have waited to be home to eat something healthy. But you didn´t. You always get upset stomach while eating fast food. But you did anyway. By the time you are home, the hunger is gone but now a feeling of heaviness has taken over your body. You could have prevented this. You could have done better. You had the power to save yourself if you only had a little bit of self-control.
But you didn´t. You took the easy way out, the fast pass, the me first route. And now, when is too late, there is nothing to do about it.
You feel like crying. But you won´t. You feel like puking. But you can´t. You feel like going to the restroom. That you do.
It all went to shit. All you can do know is sit there and wait for the sweet sweet release.
It all went to shit.
And_Gignac
Member
You are using scientific consensus to be patronizing and "demolish" arguments against "your" opinion which is just an absolutist repetition of what SC says.
But there's actually no scientific consensus on global warming causing humanity go extinct. It may cause billions of death and a civilization reset in the most extreme takes on the situation, but there's really not an apocalyptic fear monguering from the scientific community related to global warming, in the sense of "it will cause the end of us all". That doesn't mean it isn't pivotal to act on it and reverse it as much and as soon as possible.
Prototype Viktor
Member
The scientists had to wait for HBO to go without a cable package to determine it
The only arguments that have merit in discussions of science is actual science backed by data. There's nothing patronizing about that. If you want to base your argument on such a serious topic on something other than science, you are necessarily not going to have those arguments taken as seriously. That's how science works. The fact that you believe this is about "demolishing arguments" rather than trying to figure out if there is in fact any evidence that things aren't as dire as the scientific community believes says that you are not in fact approaching this discussion from a rational point of view.
I have also said time and time again that it is NOT too late. We have a not insignificant chance of survival statistically. But we really are fast approaching the point of no return. And so far humanity's behavior does not suggest at all we are guaranteed survival. In fact, the opposite seems to be true.
There is no scientific consensus on global warming causing humanity to go extinct; there is broad scientific consensus that if we don't do something very soon it absolutely will be too late to change the trajectory for the planet. And if a runaway greenhouse effect starts, which is the end result of that trajectory... we will either die, have to create insufferable artificial environments we will all need to huddle within until we can get the planet back up to safe levels, or we will have to evacuate the planet. Those are the big options available to us if we let it go too far.
These are not 'doomsday' scenarios, they are the actual undeniable end result of the trajectory we are on and we are currently not fixing. You and him keep absolutely stating we will survive, but the only way we are going to do that is if we actually put in the work to fix the problem. We are not currently doing that. Every year we don't currently do that is a year our statistical likelihood of extinction increases, and that is a scientific fact.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Its also discounting the fact that again, humanity is actively making sure they live. If we didnt, we wouldve nuked ourselves long ago.
Cow Mengde
Banned
You can just sit here and wait for extinction then. I know the problem exists for 3rd world countries. That's why I talk about investing in future technology. Investing in the technology can help reduce cost and increase efficiency. My family's not rich at all. Part of the reason we don't have a car is also because we can't afford it. Well, we can afford a inexpensive car, but I think it's a waste of money. I'm saving money to have solar panels installed in our house. If we continue to invest in these technologies, pretty soon it'll get even cheaper and more affordable. That's why I pointed out investing.
You see, you're also forgetting 3rd world countries tend to not have such a big population. Think about North Korea. How much do you think they contribute to carbon emission compared to something like China? Or even South Korea? How many rain forests can their tiny population devastate? How many people in North Korea are buying ivory and driving animals to extinction?
afternoon delight
Member
Try and stop us!
If you believe in yourself and love yourself, you override these issues. Receptive others gravitate towards you, like planets around the sun, or the circle of gum you often see around street-rubbish bins - because you feed yourself until you are satisfied, and by that nature you have something of worth to others - yourself.
You - Foffy, the person - you are seeking negativity, and you are finding it in quotes that agree with the concepts you are exploring and solidifying. Negativity is drawing you with its very gravity, because people are either one or the other - positive or negative - that's the nature of our perception - that's the nature of pack instinct - that is human nature.
Humans have intellect. Humans have a level of will somewhere on the spectrum between free-will and fate - and the more aware and accepting you are, the more capable you are of travelling towards the positive side of the spectrum - which one would that be, to you? Once an individual is aware, they are capable of making a choice.
Division is a unit of measurement - a binary duality that humans can more easily perceive and use - but the nature of reality is that it is constantly flowing. It's a pristine, beautiful constant, not separated by frames per second, or centimetres, or any measurement. It is infinite, basically. Our ability to exude our belief is such.
A moment lasts as long as you give it credence.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
I don't disagree with the current assesment, but it's doom theory if it ends with humanities decline. That is an outcome but it has a low chance given current trajectories. Scientists may be smart but they're not cross field so they're doing guess work for other fields.
Pessimistic in days of change is weird, that's why.
hydragonwarrior
Member
Awareness is a good thing, no matter what forum you're on.
It's true, actions speak louder than words. But the first step is spreading the word on what is happening and coming up with what can be done.
hydragonwarrior
Member
Yeah there is no link between global warming and humanity extinction.
But the fall of any animal species is always a big deal. This will accelerate the most when arctic and antarctic ice is nearly gone in 10 years - the unique life which exists within or relies on the cold climate will likely fail to adapt and die out quickly.
Bigger fear is expanding deadzones in the ocean once more carbon builds up. Dead zones are areas where no life exists in the water - it's just decaying matter because there is zero oxygen.
Hopefully the bolded increases awareness on animal extinction, since you know the Last Guardian is probably the last one alive lol
Ironically we probably will be, it's our sons, daughters and grandchildren that are going to get it rough.
InsanerBrainer
Member
Maybe next gen will have better graphics.
Warm Machine
Member
Heh. My dad has driven cab for the last 25 years. Pretty much the entire fleet of cabs are now Prius where he lives. Same goes for Vancouver, where I live. He says that instead of filling the tank twice a day for a regular car (which were propane then back to gas as price equalized) they fill it ever 1.5 days. So the cars actually cost 1/3rd what they did in the past to operate in fuel costs and the price of trips remained the same or higher.
Imagine if they were still using regular cars.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
The most profound change any of us can do as a species is to simply die off.
UltimaPooh
Member
Did you watch the Matrix this week or something?
O.DOGG
Member
I read The Sixth Extinction earlier this year. A very sobering read. I wish there were more people doing something to reverse this extinction trend but I don't see much hope.
JJDinomite
Banned
We will be okay.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
no you see the best goal possible is if humanity performs seppeku, that way nature can flourish again
You don't hate the world, do you?
You're seemingly basing all of your beliefs partially off scientific consensus but more so on the idea that humanity will never make an attempt to solve the problem and openly embrace its own demise.
sick burn
AstroNut325
Member
You're assuming we will act with sufficient time to solve the problem. And you're assuming that scientific consensus is insufficient to determine the trajectory of our planet's ecosystems.
ZeezbruhTV
Member
This. Also solar/wind/geothermal/hydro/fusion will continue to get cheaper and cheaper plus more efficient. IMO electric cars will be the norm in 20 years and we will be getting close to colonizing mars. Yeah we are killing wildlife and some of the environment but we should be fine.
Also complete wildcards such as massive genetic engineering and making crazy AI that will govern us etc.
UltimaPooh
Member
I mean MAYBE it's the best answer... but I just find it hilarious all these self hating humans, as if they are the only ones to realize that humans can be shitty at times. We can be great too.
OuterLimits
Member
Just curious about what people think. We are currently in an interglacial period. The last glacial period saw glaciers far south into the current United States. Obviously that would be catastrophic and many would not survive if that were the case today. Let's say humans somehow get a fucking clue and we miraculously slow or even stop human made global warming. Several hundred or thousands of years later the interglacial period ends and glaciers start rushing south again. Do we release greenhouse gases in a desperate attempt to stop the rapid cooling?
In 2001 I read a huge Arthur C Clarke collection of stories. One short story I believe called The Forgotten Enemy was about the last man trying to survive a new ice age in Britain. He keeps hearing a sound from the North which grows a bit louder each day. His last day alive he looks out his window and sees the glaciers approaching which were causing the growing noise. Arthur wrote introductions for each story in the collection. For this one he wrote that perhaps fossil fuels which are harmful and contribute to greenhouse gases warming the planet now could one day be our salvation if the planet gets colder and a severe glacial period starts again. If of course we don't deplete them.
Obviously humans suck and polluting the planet is fucking ridiculous. As is destroying many ecosystems and causing extinctions. The current climate is ideal for humanity. Humans started to thrive once the recent interglacial period started and the Earth grew warmer. Even the Little Ice age from the 14th to the 19th century caused massive problems especially in Europe and that only saw a small decrease in average global temps.
Hopefully we can stop the madness and be better caretakers of the planet. We need to try our best to stop or at least slow our current impacts on the environment and climate. Though perhaps one day we will also need to try and fight Mother Nature when she tries to change the climate.
In 2001 I read a huge Arthur C Clarke collection of stories. One short story I believe called The Forgotten Enemy was about the last man trying to survive a new ice age in Britain. He keeps hearing a sound from the North which grows a bit louder each day. His last day alive he looks out his window and sees the glaciers approaching which were causing the growing noise. Arthur wrote introductions for each story in the collection. For this one he wrote that perhaps fossil fuels which are harmful and contribute to greenhouse gases warming the planet now could one day be our salvation if the planet gets colder and a severe glacial period starts again. If of course we don't deplete them.
Obviously humans suck and polluting the planet is fucking ridiculous. As is destroying many ecosystems and causing extinctions. The current climate is ideal for humanity. Humans started to thrive once the recent interglacial period started and the Earth grew warmer. Even the Little Ice age from the 14th to the 19th century caused massive problems especially in Europe and that only saw a small decrease in average global temps.
Hopefully we can stop the madness and be better caretakers of the planet. We need to try our best to stop or at least slow our current impacts on the environment and climate. Though perhaps one day we will also need to try and fight Mother Nature when she tries to change the climate.
Haha, what in the hell? Stray cats are not causing a mass extinction.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
Well for starters, these scientists and research facilities are out doing the work and putting together data that will hopefully get coverage and further inform the public at large. Sometimes all we can really do is be more conscious of our own personal impact and let others be aware about the current crisis (in a informative, non pretension/authoritative way), sadly a lot of people won't give a shit. But the hope is that these studies get more support and attention to affect policies/public awareness.
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