‘Geraldo’
February 21, 1994
Episode: "La Toya Jackson Strikes Back"
…
Geraldo: The outspoken, often outrageous, independent, sometimes sad,
sometimes shocking, definitely defiant, always unpredictable,
undoubtedly interesting--ladies and gentlemen, welcome La Toya Jackson.
Geraldo: Hi.
La Toya Jackson: Hi.
Geraldo: Sounds like they're going to give you a fair shake today.
La Toya: We'll wait and see, huh?
Geraldo: We'll wait and see.
La Toya: Yeah.
Geraldo: So why? Why? Why? Blood is thicker than water. Why? Why would
you...
La Toya: Yes, it is.
Geraldo: Why would you come public and say things that were so damning
to your brother?
La Toya: You know, Geraldo, this has been going on for several months
now. And I've been asked repeatedly about the situation with Michael.
And, of course, he's my brother and I love him a great deal--more than
anything else. But when they ask me questions about him, I always say,
No comment, no comment, no comment,' because I was torn. And when you're
torn like that, and you know what's really going on, you don't know what
to say or what to do because you don't want to hurt him. However, at the
same time, you don't want to see these victims hurt either. And you have
to remember that I come from a family that's very dysfunctional. And I
was sexually abused--mentally, physically, when I was a child. And that...
Geraldo: By your father.
La Toya: By my father, yes.
La Toya: (Voiceover) And I know what it feels like to be a victim and to
be abused. And it's a scar that's left on you for a lifetime, and it's
something that you cannot help and that you cannot control. And it's
very damaging, especially to young children. And it happened to me when
I was a little girl. And I don't want to see that happen to anyone else.
And I'm not saying this to hurt Michael in any way, so I don't want the
people to get the wrong impression, but when the press asks me a
question, eventually I had to answer them. And I said, I refuse to be a
silent collaborator in his crimes.' And that was my answer.
Geraldo: In his crimes'--so inflammatory. Aside from the fact that it
sounds like you think he is guilty, and--and we'll get to that--was
there a specific catalyst, a specific reason for speaking out as you did
in early December from Tel Aviv in Israel?
La Toya: Yes, there was. They repeatedly asked me questions about him,
which I avoided.
La Toya: (Voiceover) I didn't want to answer them. Of course, you don't
want to.
But it comes to a point where they're just bombarding you with
questions, and you eventually say OK.' And that's when I did it. And
just before I had gone there--the night prior to that--I had seen the--I
don't know if they're familiar with it, but the priest who had actually
abused all these children, and they were very young.
Geraldo: The case in Massachusetts. Yes.
La Toya: In Massachusetts. And now they're adults. They're grown human
beings. They have no identity. They don't know who they are. They're all
confused. Some of them are drug addicts. They're just totally confused.
Their lives are totally destroyed. They don't know. And that's what
happens when you're abused as a child. And now these people are grown men.
Geraldo: OK.
La Toya: They're nearly 40 or more.
Geraldo: So is it--let me stand by your side for a minute--is this a
case of La Toya, the victim of child molestation, speaking out on behalf
of victims of molestation everywhere?
La Toya: Absolutely. Because it's important to let them know that if
you've been touched or hurt or anything, speak out and let someone know.
Geraldo: OK. Now you know that that sounds like you believe Michael to
be guilty of the allegations that he molested...
La Toya: I would say that for anyone, even if Michael wasn't my brother.
(Photo of Michael Jackson)
La Toya: (Voiceover) I would say that to anyone because it's so
important. They have no idea.
I think people who have been abused would understand it more clearly
than those who haven't been.
Geraldo: OK. Let's...
La Toya: You don't live a normal life. You can't function normally.
Geraldo: OK. We--we accept that, and we understand and feel it very
deeply. We've done more shows on victims rights on this program...
La Toya: Mm-hmm.
Geraldo: ...than any other talk show...
La Toya: Mm-hmm.
Geraldo: ...more programs about molestation and the perpetrators, et
cetera. What evidence is there, in your mind, La Toya, to lead you to
believe that Michael Jackson, your brother, is guilty of the allegations
that he molested this 13-year-old youngster? Let me take it
step-by-step. During the years that you lived with the family, did
Michael bring young boys to the house more often than would seem normal
to you?
La Toya: Repeatedly, yes. Definitely.
Geraldo: OK. What exactly did you see? Explain it, if you would.
La Toya: Constantly, there were always young boys at the house. And when
I say young boys, I don't mean groups of boys together. There was always
one. And he would spend time with them--and when I say time, he would
spend perhaps maybe a week, a month or longer, until they reach a
certain age. And when I say spend time with them, they would stay in his
room. You have to remember, to anybody out there, we're speaking about a
guy who's 35 years old. And these little boys--well, this...
La Toya: ...at a time, not in a group. But these little boys are
sleeping in his room with him. And sometimes they don't leave the room,
Geraldo, in three days. They stay in the room for three days. What could
they possibly be doing in a room for three days, sometimes a week? And
when they did ask for food or anything, the cooks would bring the food
to the door, and he would reach out and grab it, and he would close the
door. And you begin to wonder and think, What's going on?'
I have seen so many kids come to the house, and they're just overwhelmed
by what we had. They were overwhelmed by just the toy store, the candy
store, the game machines, and all these different things, and just the
rides and things of that sort. They were overwhelmed by these things.
And they were taken in by these things. And he would watch them play,
and he would single out certain ones, and he would have that look on his
face, that glazed look. And I stopped and asked him one time, Why are
you looking at them that way? What is it?' And he just laughed, and
said, Well, I'm just looking. I'm looking at them play. I enjoy it.'
Which, in fact, I'm sure he does enjoy it sometimes--them playing. But
when you single out one guy like that, and that's the guy that you see
that stays over, and he's there for the next several months or
whatever--until he reaches a certain age or whatever, that's the guy
that you see. And that's that kind of--you know, it puzzles you. What's
going on? What's happening here?'
Geraldo: Describe that glazed look.
La Toya: And you see this guy playing, and all of a sudden when you
knock on Michael's bedroom door, and you walk in the room...
Geraldo: Mm-hmm.
La Toya: ...the child is entirely different. He's not the same little child.
Geraldo: He's not the same innocent child?
La Toya: No. He's not the same little child anymore.
Geraldo: Was the glazed look a predatory look? What is a look of, I am
attracted to that one? I want that one?'
La Toya: I hate to sit here and say yes, but that's the impression I
got. That's the impression I would always get. And that's the impression
I didn't like. And that's what I didn't like seeing. And if you must
remember, I wrote a book a couple of years ago...
La Toya: (Voiceover) ...because I wanted to put a stop to this. Because
I knew it would come to this. And I didn't want to see Michael hurt.
I thought, eventually, perhaps he would stop this. But when you're
raised like we were in a dysfunctional family, perhaps he couldn't stop.
He had nowhere to turn. He was confused.
Geraldo: So in your heart of hearts, you believe...
La Toya: But this boy totally changed. You have to remember he was just
playful and just--whatever, and you come in the room and he's like this,
all of a sudden. I go, What's wrong ...(bleeped out). What's wrong with
you?' Nothing.' The same little boy that was jumping up and down on the
bed and bouncing around and having fun, Oh, let's go to the candy store.
Let's do this and let's do that,' was entirely different. You would see
him sneaking there, and looking around, and running to the store after a
while. That was part of the property when I say store, so they won't get
the wrong impression.
Geraldo: Right. The private stock of candy and other goodies.
La Toya: It was just a big store that had everything you ever wanted, as
far as candies for kids.
Geraldo: OK. You say that at the age of 13, he then rejected the children?
La Toya: That was basically the--the oldest.
Geraldo: And the youngest?
La Toya: As far as nine years old--eight or nine years old. From
what--from what I've--I've seen at home.
Geraldo: OK. From what--your own eyes--you are now saying, testifying in
a way, that you saw your brother with eight- and nine-year-olds in his
bedroom, staying over night after night after night. You saw that?
La Toya: Yes. And not coming out of the room. Yes.
Geraldo: Did you ever see Michael behave--other than the glazed look,
the predatory look that you described--did you ever see him behave in an
untoward or improper manner? Did he, for instance, fondle the children
in your eyes?
La Toya: No, I've never seen him do that. No. No.
Geraldo: So you'd have to say you've never actually seen him molest a child?
La Toya: No. I've never seen him do any of that. Absolutely not.
Geraldo: Why then are you so convinced in your heart that he's guilty?
La Toya: Because of what I've seen. Because of what I know. Because of
what my mother has done. Because of what she showed me.
La Toya: (Voiceover) Because of the things that she said to me about
Michael, that I refused to believe at the time.
I would--I refused to believe my mother. My mother actually was
screaming at me one day, and I ran to the room. I--frantically--I
thought something was wrong, something had happened. And she was showing
me this check and I said, Yeah, so. What about it?' And she says, Well
look at it.' And the check, of course, was a one and lots of zeroes
behind it. And she says, La Toya, this is $1 million.' I said, So?' And
she goes, But look who it's written to.' And, of course, at that
particular time it was...written to, the last name of the little boy
that he was with all that time. But it was written to the father, and
not the little boy. It was in the father's name. And she called him a
very bad name after that--Michael. She called him a very bad name. There
was another check behind that. And I said, Mother, please. Let's leave.'
I said, We shouldn't be in here. I don't want this.'
Geraldo: You were in Michael's room?
La Toya: Yes, she was in his--actually, his closet. It was his closet.
Geraldo: And the two of you were in Michael's room and you--and she
removed a canceled check and showed it to you?
La Toya: She was in his closet, that--which is in his room, yes.
Geraldo: And you recognized the name?
La Toya: Yes.
Geraldo: All right. Don't tell us the name, but describe the person to
whom it was written--the father.
La Toya: I don't know the father.
Geraldo: Was he a show business person?
La Toya: No. The father, supposedly, is a garbage collector--or, was a
garbage collector, I should say, at that particular time.
