No, you're excusing all their lies and inconsistencies by saying they were just traumatized kids who have a hard time remembering. So, no matter how many times they lied, you're just going to come up with the same excuse for and over again. That's not thinking rationally, you're just unable to admit that it puts doubts into their story.
What is extremely irrational is to rely upon testimonies and inconsistencies, claiming them “
proof” and “
facts” that’ve arisen out of such an absolute clusterfuck of psychology, pressure, stardom, idolization, naïveté, immaturity, abuse, growth, acceptance….you name it. Because of that, I don’t care how many lies or inconsistencies come out of such a cesspit of volatile human dynamics borne over a very long period of time, both in favor of MJ’s innocence, or in favor of his guilt. I’m ambivalent to both.
What I am
not ambivalent about, however, is proper conduct and boundaries that should be adhered to in the interactions between adults and minors. My pedo radar rings off the scale in observing MJ’s behavior around them. Is my intuition proof of anything? Of course not. But I can tell you one thing: I can recognize when an adult has crossed a line with a child, and it’s not going to win him the benefit of the doubt in my view no matter how many technicalities you throw my way.…..only earn my suspicions.
You can't bring up specifics of the case because you admit that you don't know them. You're winging it. lol. You can't even bring their testimonies because the ones who really brought testimonies are Gavin, Wade, and James, two of which are adults and all of them have constantly lied. Sure, bring up Wade and James stories, two of which tried to sue the MJ Estate and lied repeatedly. Bring up Gavin's testimonies in which he gave his story, lied on the witness stand during cross-examination and then tried to change his story immediately.
Tell me something: how are you determining what is the truth and what is a lie in this case?
You brushed aside Evan Chandler being caught on tape coming up with his plan to bring up false allegations against Michael Jackson. You ignored the fact this was before the alleged "confession." Evan Chandler was barely in contact with his son and Evan somehow became suspicious that something was happening while he visited Michael with Jordan and his ex wife June.
Please (re)read what I have written, I’ve already addressed this.
Again, you're ignoring mere facts. You said you saw fear but didn't realize that MJ barely knew the kid prior to that interview. He literally only saw Gavin a handful of times. You thought these had a close inappropriate relationship when that clearly wasn't the case. You're not going to form some bond with someone in such a short period of time, which goes against your entire argument.
Maybe it’s just me, but holding the hand of a young boy, letting him lean his head lovingly against my shoulder while I profess how sharing my bed with him and others is the
“ultimate expression of love” or some such shit probably isn’t the best course of action if I’m trying to convince the world I’m not closely (and very inappropriately) having an intimate relationship with this person.
Aside, the establishment of a previously held relationship isn’t necessary for such conduct to be (and remain) extremely inappropriate, so no, it in no way goes against my argument. It is inappropriate had he pulled Gavin right off the street a day prior, and it is inappropriate had he built such a degree of intimacy over weeks/months/years as the footage appeared to suggest. If MJ got so close and spoke like borderline lovers about a child he (as you’re arguing) barely knew in front of millions, then you’ll have to forgive me for wondering how close he was getting and “
loving” the children he
did know in private without an audience. You think those expressions of intimacy with a relatively strange child to him gives me comfort of his behavior with others that he was actually intimate with?
It doesn’t. There is NO excuse for that at any stage of relations. If I saw a
father and daughter in such a situation it would raise an eyebrow. It was, and is, disgusting, a trespassing of boundaries with children, and shouldn’t be defended or justified.
Which, btw, you’ve still not answered my (and another user’s) question, for the third time now, as to whether you find this behavior acceptable? This shouldn’t be difficult to answer, why are you continually dodging this?
Gavin was at Neverland a lot while Jackson was away. Gavin even admits he was there while him and his family were free to roam Neverland. Gavin complained that Jackson wouldn't return his phone calls. Remember, Neverland was open to a lot of people and his friends. There were paid employees. His family was with Gavin and staying with him.
I don’t care. I don’t care.
I. DON’T. CARE.
Perhaps Gavin wasn’t molested? Perhaps him and his family
were trying to extort Jackson under such premise? And? My suspicion of MJ’s guilt isn’t contingent upon any one individual; the man surrounded himself with children for many, many years and there were plenty of opportunities for exploitation and abuse aside those we know of or have testimony on. I’ve no doubt that there are tons of kids who were never touched by Michael. What we have seen, and jurisprudence has ruled upon, I can pretty much assure you is the tip of a much larger iceberg of activity…..innocuous or otherwise.
You told me you're not interested in the specifics of the case and now you want me to believe you know the facts.
You barely know anything.
The only thing you're doing is explaining to me how abuse victims are. This is no different than the MeToo movement where no matter how many times a woman has lied, they should still be considered victims.
You know barely anything either, you’re just pretending that you do.
You take testimony and treat it as gospel, but curiously, only testimony that favors your chosen belief without any explanation as to why I should believe those that you do any more over the ones you proclaim to be dishonest. You think those who’ve vouched for MJ didn’t have their reasons? Haven’t lied ever in their lives? Would that not invalidate their testimonies in your view? If not, why, because that’s exactly the grounds you’re predicating your dismissals upon.
That is why I don’t concern myself with the intricacies. Which, btw, I am not ignorant of, I just don’t lend all that much credence to. BUT, place these claims, both equally plausible, into the context of Michael’s creepy behavior around children, and the needle begins to point in a certain direction. Jackson laid in the bed he made, and I don’t feel an ounce of sympathy for the man even if he was innocent. It would have been incredibly irresponsible and dangerous to not investigate him.
Sorry, but if people keep lying about their story then that's only going to be doubt in people's minds. If a person told 50 lies, you're going to have an excuse for all 50. This is nothing but denial. lol
Yeah, sorry, I do not believe it is me who is in denial here.
The thing is, I don’t want MJ to be guilty. He was a formative force in my youth and I adore his works. I probably still would consume his craft even were he found guilty beyond all doubt of these charges, that’s how much.
But I’m not going to let the goggles of nostalgia and a deep-rooted childhood affinity in my psych blind me to some very suspicious and questionable conduct with minors. Despite what you believe, MJ’s guilt remains unknown and debated, it’s not just a matter of knowing the specifics and facts that ultimately legally exonerated him. And you can continue to hide behind those things in the attempt to exculpate him of these accusations, but it’s nothing but appealing to technicalities while ignoring the human dynamics they’ve arisen from.
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