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[DForce]

I got a 2 week ban at resetera for pointing out that Dan Reed edited the film after the US airing. He deleted some scènes that could be proven false.
Glad neogaf still has freedom of speech.

I watched LN, while I found it well produced, I'm convinced those two guys are frauds.

I think people shouldn't be so arrogant and 100% convinced that these two were molested. Since there's no proof, there's that shred of doubt that it could have happened, but right now, I believe it's VERY unlikely that anything happened.

People have to remember that the MJ Estate are currently looking into these claims of allegations and they're going to have their people do their own investigation. It's possible that we're going to see a lot more evidence that these two accusers are liars.

 

[mckmas8808]

It goes with their narrative that Michel Jackson and James Safechuck were in love with each other. I'm sure many people listened to it and were disturbed by the phone call without knowing the context of the full audio.

I think the full context is equally odd as the edited version.

 

[DForce]

I think the full context is equally odd as the edited version.

I think if it was that odd, then they wouldn't brother editing the clip.

They have made several edits and remove parts from the documentary. The documentary is very deceiving. They don't even bother to state that the maid told multiple versions of her story and lied under oath.

 

[VulcanRaven]

Here is great interview with Brandi Jackson. She is Michael's niece and she dated Wade Robson more than 7 years:



It starts around 9:00. They met in 1991 and got closer few year later. Michael actually set Wade up with her because Wade had a crush on her. She doesn't believe the accusations and thinks that Wade is after money.

 

[Winter John]

He slept in the same bed with Corey Feldman, Macaulay Culkin and Brett Barnes slept int he same bed as MJ and they claim he didn't molest them.

Only people who accused him of molestation are known liars.

First accuser couldn't describe his genitalia and there were alleged witnesses who claim they admitted to them that he lied. His father started bringing allegations against MJ when he wouldn't fun his movie and allegedly tried to drug him to make up a false accusations against MJ.


I'm waiting for proof, not assumptions.

Prove he didn't fuck em

 

[DForce]

Prove he didn't fuck em

Maybe you should take the time to do some research and actually try reading this thread. I said NO ONE has proof of what happened , but you're the one saying it's a fact that he molested those children when you have ZERO proof.

Saying he slept in the same bed is NOT proof. Any judge or lawyer is going to laugh at you.

I DARE you to talk to any credible lawyer or anyone with pure common sense that they will tell you that sleeping in the same bed with a child does NOT prove they were molested.


These accusers are lying about events and changing their stories over and over again. This does not PROVE they're lying about the molestation but it hurts their credibility, which means they are capable of lying about the molestation.

The simple fact that you didn't know that Micheal Jackson did not pay hush money to the accusers and that the evidence from the 1993 case was used against him only shows how completely ignorant you are.

So if you don't have evidence to prove he molested these children, then don't go around telling people that it's obvious that he did it.

 

[LMJ]

Prove he didn't fuck em

No, no, no, no ,no no NO, NO NO!

It is up to the accuser to provide proof, not the accused!

You are innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around, you're entitled to your opinions but this is the way our courts work regardless of how many people want to change it!

Oh and to mckmas8808 , Since I didn't reply earlier, You're correct the court of public opinion does not require this, they are totally allowed to make rash stupid completely asinine decisions fueled by feelings...
However I would point out that's how we ended up with many lynchings in the past...

 

[Jubenhimer]

Recently I have been wondering about MJ and noticing that people are ready to condemn R. Kelly and basically boycott his music (deservedly so) but people seem to willingly ignore/forget the child molestation accusations against MJ. Is it because there’s less public evidence against MJ?

Well for one, MJ is dead, so it's harder to condemn someone who is no longer with us. Another, is that his music is just so good and iconic. Thing is, it's important to separate the art from the artist. Even though people have been well aware of MJ's accusations for years, they're willing to look past that because the music he made was so good.

 

[Voost Kain]

Simpsons episodes removed from future DVDs and digital releases of season 3, radios in Canada, UK, Autralia, and S.Korea removing his music for an indefinite amount of time, people are believing this even without proof.

 

[mckmas8808]

Simpsons episodes removed from future DVDs and digital releases of season 3, radios in Canada, UK, Autralia, and S.Korea removing his music for an indefinite amount of time, people are believing this even without proof.

It's getting serious when the music gets removed from radio stations.

 

[Rock And Roll]

Prove he didn't fuck em

Prove he did, Poirot. You've been repeatedly stating he "fucked kids" this entire thread. Tell me this, if an adult male was inserting himself into children, don't you think there would be injuries consistent with rape? Wouldn't be too hard to prove if he was fucking kids as you so eloquently put it. Yet he proven innocent time and time again.

Could it be because he was innocent? No couldn't be that, it must be (insert you're flawed argument here).

There has been plenty of evidence provided to the contrary in this thread MJ did not molest children, yet you and a few others continue to stick your fingers in your ear, bleat incessantly and refuse to back up your claims other than "he was weird so he must be a pedo".

Yeah, MJ was weird and did some highly questionable things. If there was solid evidence he molested kids, I would believe. At this point and time (just like decades prior) there has yet to be a shred of credible evidence against the guy, so innocent until proven guilty. A crazy concept, I know.

 

[LMJ]

It's getting serious when the music gets removed from radio stations.

I think the term you're looking for is "ridiculous", not serious

 

[Rock And Roll]

It's getting serious when the music gets removed from radio stations.

You must believe Baby It's Cold Outside is about rape.

Just because the radio is pulling music doesn't mean MJ is guilty. It means the media doesn't want anything to do with it and are being reactionary as usual, lest they want to face the social media lynch mob. They've had 25 years to pull his music (regardless if these claims are true or not) and have only decided to do so in the post metoo bullshit Internet wasteland.

 

[Chandler55]

Recently I have been wondering about MJ and noticing that people are ready to condemn R. Kelly and basically boycott his music (deservedly so) but people seem to willingly ignore/forget the child molestation accusations against MJ. Is it because there’s less public evidence against MJ?

yeah rkelly had childporn on his pc and a couple videos where he's peeing on a minor. also all the accusations against MJ have issues.

 

[highrider]

Aaron Carter pretty much sums it up for me off all people.

 

[Winter John]

Prove he did, Poirot. You've been repeatedly stating he "fucked kids" this entire thread. Tell me this, if an adult male was inserting himself into children, don't you think there would be injuries consistent with rape? Wouldn't be too hard to prove if he was fucking kids as you so eloquently put it. Yet he proven innocent time and time again.

Could it be because he was innocent? No couldn't be that, it must be (insert you're flawed argument here).

There has been plenty of evidence provided to the contrary in this thread MJ did not molest children, yet you and a few others continue to stick your fingers in your ear, bleat incessantly and refuse to back up your claims other than "he was weird so he must be a pedo".

Yeah, MJ was weird and did some highly questionable things. If there was solid evidence he molested kids, I would believe. At this point and time (just like decades prior) there has yet to be a shred of credible evidence against the guy, so innocent until proven guilty. A crazy concept, I know.

Weird? He wasn't just weird. He was sending strangers on holiday so he could sleep with their kids. You and a few others on here might think there's nothing wrong with a man paying to have kids share his bed, but here in the real world that kind of behavior isn't excusable.

 

[Rock And Roll]

Weird? He wasn't just weird. He was sending strangers on holiday so he could sleep with their kids. You and a few others on here might think there's nothing wrong with a man paying to have kids share his bed, but here in the real world that kind of behavior isn't excusable.

No one here has claimed that a man sharing his bed with kids isn't wrong or excusing his behaviour. It's inappropriate, creepy and cause for reasonable suspicion. Upon investigation, there was no evidence that MJ molested kids. You're out here claiming he sexually abused them. You have no proof, the courts had no proof and there has yet to be a credible allegation against him. Yet here you are asking for evidence he didn't molest kids. I guess being acquitted multiple times in the court of law isn't enough.

EDIT: I shouldn't say no one is defending sleeping in the same bed as kids as I haven't read every post in this thread, and if they are defending that behaviour, that's on them. Meanwhile, you said that I excused that behaviour, which nowhere in my original post did I even insinuate anything close to that. Please do not twist my/others posts to fit your narrative.

 

[Winter John]

No one here has claimed that a man sharing his bed with kids isn't wrong or excusing his behaviour. It's inappropriate, creepy and cause for reasonable suspicion. Upon investigation, there was no evidence that MJ molested kids. You're out here claiming he sexually abused them. You have no proof, the courts had no proof and there has yet to be a credible allegation against him. Yet here you are asking for evidence he didn't molest kids. I guess being acquitted multiple times in the court of law isn't enough.

EDIT: I shouldn't say no one is defending sleeping in the same bed as kids as I haven't read every post in this thread, and if they are defending that behaviour, that's on them. Meanwhile, you said that I excused that behaviour, which nowhere in my original post did I even insinuate anything close to that. Please do not twist my/others posts to fit your narrative.

What the hell do you think he was doing in bed with them? Playing damn Scrabble? I'm tired of going round and round with this garbage. You can all keep handwaving and downplaying the shit he was doing as much as you like but it won't change the facts. No normal guy would ever think of sleeping with a bunch of kids. The dude himself came straight out and said he was sleeping in bed with them kids; but you people are going to ignore that and spout a bunch of dumb shit about how just cos he was paying off the parents so he could sleep with their kids don't mean he was fuckin them. Bullshit.

 

[Rock And Roll]

What the hell do you think he was doing in bed with them? Playing damn Scrabble? I'm tired of going round and round with this garbage. You can all keep handwaving and downplaying the shit he was doing as much as you like but it won't change the facts. No normal guy would ever think of sleeping with a bunch of kids. The dude himself came straight out and said he was sleeping in bed with them kids; but you people are going to ignore that and spout a bunch of dumb shit about how just cos he was paying off the parents so he could sleep with their kids don't mean he was fuckin them. Bullshit.

And you still have no proof or any evidence to back up your claim. Interesting.

 

[Winter John]

And you still have no proof or any evidence to back up your claim. Interesting.

And still you continue to ignore the fact that the man himself said he slept with kids. Interesting.

 

[Rock And Roll]

And still you continue to ignore the fact that the man himself said he slept with kids. Interesting.

Yes he did say that. And as it has been said, it was found out nothing was going on except some dude with arrested development thinking it was perfectly normal for an adult to have sleepovers with kids were acceptable. It wasn't, he continued to do it anyway and brought scrutiny upon himself. MJ was an idiot.

Sleeping does not equal having sex, despite what you tell yourself. An adult male inserting himself into young children would have left marks. There weren't any.

Nothing I say is going to change your mind and until credible accusations come forward I'm not going to believe MJ was anything but an extremely reckless and gullible man being extorted by people he tried to help. Might as well call it here instead of going in circles

 

[Winter John]

Yes he did say that. And as it has been said, it was found out nothing was going on except some dude with arrested development thinking it was perfectly normal for an adult to have sleepovers with kids were acceptable. It wasn't, he continued to do it anyway and brought scrutiny upon himself. MJ was an idiot.

Sleeping does not equal having sex, despite what you tell yourself. An adult male inserting himself into young children would have left marks. There weren't any.

Nothing I say is going to change your mind and until credible accusations come forward I'm not going to believe MJ was anything but an extremely reckless and gullible man being extorted by people he tried to help. Might as well call it here instead of going in circles

"it was found out nothing was going on except some dude with arrested development thinking it was perfectly normal for an adult to have sleepovers with kids were acceptable."

Bullshit. Michael Jackson didn't have arrested development.

"Sleeping does not equal having sex, despite what you tell yourself."

A man paying to sleep with kids has no other reason to do it except to fuck them. If you actually believe he wasn't, I got a bridge to sell you.

"An adult male inserting himself into young children would have left marks. There weren't any."

When were the kids examined? How long after the time he was sleeping with them was a police examination carried out?

How was it one of them was able to describe his dick which had some weird marking on it?

"I'm not going to believe MJ was anything but an extremely reckless and gullible man."

That's fine. Until credible witnesses come forward I'm not going to believe MJ was anything but a dangerous pedophile who used his money and power to prey on children.

 

[DForce]

"it was found out nothing was going on except some dude with arrested development thinking it was perfectly normal for an adult to have sleepovers with kids were acceptable."

Bullshit. Michael Jackson didn't have arrested development.

"Sleeping does not equal having sex, despite what you tell yourself."

A man paying to sleep with kids has no other reason to do it except to fuck them. If you actually believe he wasn't, I got a bridge to sell you.

"An adult male inserting himself into young children would have left marks. There weren't any."

When were the kids examined? How long after the time he was sleeping with them was a police examination carried out?

How was it one of them was able to describe his dick which had some weird marking on it?

"I'm not going to believe MJ was anything but an extremely reckless and gullible man."

That's fine. Until credible witnesses come forward I'm not going to believe MJ was anything but a dangerous pedophile who used his money and power to prey on children.

Paying to sleep with kids? Where's your proof?

How was it one of them was able to describe his dick which had some weird marking on it?

Now it's clear that you don't bother looking up facts but instead you're going off pure emotion.

Jordan chandler did not describe his dick, that's what people continue to falsely state,

 

[Winter John]

Paying to sleep with kids? Where's your proof?



Now it's clear that you don't bother looking up facts but instead you're going off pure emotion.

Jordan chandler did not describe his dick, that's what people continue to falsely state,

He paid to send their parents on holiday while he slept with them.

As for facts. You don't have any facts. Or even any proof he didn't fuck kids.

 

[mckmas8808]

You must believe Baby It's Cold Outside is about rape.

Just because the radio is pulling music doesn't mean MJ is guilty. It means the media doesn't want anything to do with it and are being reactionary as usual, lest they want to face the social media lynch mob. They've had 25 years to pull his music (regardless if these claims are true or not) and have only decided to do so in the post metoo bullshit Internet wasteland.

I doubt it has anything to do with facing a social media lynch mob.

Aaron Carter pretty much sums it up for me off all people.

This Aaron dude is insane. You want to protect the name of a potential child rapist? Like really dude?

 

[Rock And Roll]

I doubt it has anything to do with facing a social media lynch mob.

You don't find it odd that they've had 25 years to stop playing his music after multiple allegations but they've only chosen to do so now in the age of #cancelculture. This is 100% reactionary. And his music will be back on the radio when all of this blows over and the accusers/film makers are exposed for being liars in the court.

 

[JimmyJones]

I'm 95% sure MJ is guilty, but those boys had their chance in court to send him away and both defended him.

 

[DForce]

He paid to send their parents on holiday while he slept with them.

As for facts. You don't have any facts. Or even any proof he didn't fuck kids.

So you don't have any proof that he did this?

Again, you're making up claims with no proof. Thanks.

 

[mckmas8808]

You don't find it odd that they've had 25 years to stop playing his music after multiple allegations but they've only chosen to do so now in the age of #cancelculture. This is 100% reactionary. And his music will be back on the radio when all of this blows over and the accusers/film makers are exposed for being liars in the court.

I think it has alot to do with exposure to more information. And the fact that MJ is dead. Anytime that dude talked, most of us believed him 100%. I used to be one of those people.

 

[Redneckerz]

A man paying to sleep with kids has no other reason to do it except to fuck them. If you actually believe he wasn't, I got a bridge to sell you.

Your assumptions mean diddly doo nothing. Your line of thinking is: ''He slept with them, so he must be fucking them''

Which is an assumption and not verifiable. It does not matter what you think happens when someone says: ''I sleep with kids.'' This is indeed profoundly weird (Nobody is denying this, yet you consistently bring this up as an argument which is odd aswell) but it is not a confirmation of possible rape and sex. That's where your line of argument goes south and why people bring up that such won't hold up in court.

He paid to send their parents on holiday while he slept with them.

As for facts. You don't have any facts. Or even any proof he didn't fuck kids.

Just as like you have zero proof that he did fuck kids. On the opposite scale of things, MJ was acquitted in 2005 so in front of a legal system, he is clean.*

*That does not mean that his antics aren't flatout strange and morally wrong for most people.

 

[mcjmetroid]

Everything I see this shit on Jackson I think of this clip.

 

[Winter John]

Your assumptions mean diddly doo nothing. Your line of thinking is: ''He slept with them, so he must be fucking them''

Which is an assumption and not verifiable. It does not matter what you think happens when someone says: ''I sleep with kids.'' This is indeed profoundly weird (Nobody is denying this, yet you consistently bring this up as an argument which is odd aswell) but it is not a confirmation of possible rape and sex. That's where your line of argument goes south and why people bring up that such won't hold up in court.


Just as like you have zero proof that he did fuck kids. On the opposite scale of things, MJ was acquitted in 2005 so in front of a legal system, he is clean.*

*That does not mean that his antics aren't flatout strange and morally wrong for most people.

Your assumptions mean diddly doo nothing too buddy. Your line of thinking is: "Oh sure. He slept with them, but he's my idol so he couldn't have been fucking them."

The entire trial was based around nothing but he said, she said. There ain't no "facts" or "proof" except one - He was a grown man who paid parents to let him sleep with their children

I'll tell you what's odd buddy. You and the rest of the Jackson defence force constantly trying to downplay and excuse a grown man paying to sleep with kids.

 

[lil puff]

Your assumptions mean diddly doo nothing too buddy. Your line of thinking is: "Oh sure. He slept with them, but he's my idol so he couldn't have been fucking them."

The entire trial was based around nothing but he said, she said. There ain't no "facts" or "proof" except one - He was a grown man who paid parents to let him sleep with their children

I'll tell you what's odd buddy. You and the rest of the Jackson defence force constantly trying to downplay and excuse a grown man paying to sleep with kids.

You seem to keep conflating "sleep with" with "have sex with"

Cmon, this one is easy. No one has proof.

I mean, unless were you in the room or something?

No one excusing him for having children in his bed, as had been said multiple times here. Have some nuance and see that others see what he did as disgusting, but not proof. People are merely not jumping to the extreme conclusion.

 

[mckmas8808]

You seem to keep conflating "sleep with" with "have sex with"

Cmon, this one is easy. No one has proof.

I mean, unless were you in the room or something?

No one excusing him for having children in his bed, as had been said multiple times here. Have some nuance and see that others see what he did as disgusting, but not proof. People are merely not jumping to the extreme conclusion.

Is it an extreme conclusion though? I mean it's a 35 year old man with a 8 year old child.

 

[Shodan09]

Is it an extreme conclusion though? I mean it's a 35 year old man with a 8 year old child.

It's based just as much on emotion as any other conclusion.

 

[DForce]

There could have been another accuser years ago. The police found this boy credible because he gave a detailed description of Michael Jackson's house, schedule etc.

If this man was better at covering his tracks, I'm sure he would go down in history as another victim of MJ and people would've believed his story.

 

[LMJ]

Winter John Once again it is on the accuser to provide proof, not the accused...

Michael Jackson was a Wak a doodle...the old documentary on him proved this when he was followed around...his spending habits,lifestyle etc

The dude grew up in a very traumatic way always on the road with a very awkward childhood. The dude named his kid Blanket, there was clearly crazy to go with his genius in the musical profession

On top of that yes he has admitted when he was still alive that he "slept"...slept as in sleeping in the same bed with children which again is the actions of a wack a doodle, regardless there is no proof he ever sexually assaulted any children and that my friend is what is necessary proof.

 

[highrider]

I


This Aaron dude is insane. You want to protect the name of a potential child rapist? Like really dude?

You have evidence of that? Yet to see anything credible myself, but I’m open to being wrong.

 

[Winter John]

You seem to keep conflating "sleep with" with "have sex with"

Cmon, this one is easy. No one has proof.

I mean, unless were you in the room or something?

No one excusing him for having children in his bed, as had been said multiple times here. Have some nuance and see that others see what he did as disgusting, but not proof. People are merely not jumping to the extreme conclusion.

Extreme conclusion, are you kidding me? The guy admits to sleeping with kids then paid out $23 million to avoid his day in court. No innocent guy would ever do that, especially not one with access to the best lawyers on the planet.

 

[mckmas8808]

You have evidence of that? Yet to see anything credible myself, but I’m open to being wrong.

Well I did say "potential". To me he's about 95% guilty.

 

[highrider]

Well I did say "potential". To me he's about 95% guilty.

Yeah but that’s just another opinion. Anyone could be a potential evil doer, there’s been huge efforts spent towards building a case on the guy, now he’s dead and former supporters are trying to extend the gravy train imo.

 

[lil puff]

Extreme conclusion, are you kidding me? The guy admits to sleeping with kids then paid out $23 million to avoid his day in court. No innocent guy would ever do that, especially not one with access to the best lawyers on the planet.

Yes, extreme. You went to the most extreme conclusion without proof.

Do you understand "proof" in the legal sense?

And do you actually personally know every innocent man on the planet?
We don't know what or why people make the decisions they do. Especially the rationale of Jackson.

I'm not saying I know what he did or didn't do.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yeah but that’s just another opinion. Anyone could be a potential evil doer, there’s been huge efforts spent towards building a case on the guy, now he’s dead and former supporters are trying to extend the gravy train imo.

I disagree that "anyone" can be a potential evil doer. There are acres of smoke there.

 

[Redneckerz]

Your assumptions mean diddly doo nothing too buddy. Your line of thinking is: "Oh sure. He slept with them, but he's my idol so he couldn't have been fucking them."

He isn't my idol. What you aren't grasping (as are many others telling you) is that sleeping with kids does not equal actually fucking kids.

The entire trial was based around nothing but he said, she said. There ain't no "facts" or "proof" except one - He was a grown man who paid parents to let him sleep with their children

And i am not denying that. But that does not mean that having sex with children is proven.

The fact that you post this proves that you have no evidence of MJ actually fucking those kids.

I'll tell you what's odd buddy. You and the rest of the Jackson defence force constantly trying to downplay and excuse a grown man paying to sleep with kids.

Admitting that sleeping with kids is strange = downplaying and excusing a grown man. Where is the accusation that doing this also means fucking the kids again already? You seem to alternate between two points:

• ''You guys downplay or excuse a grown man sleeping with kids and paying people off.''
• ''Sleeping with kids, come on now, don't you think he didn't fuck them?''

Non-verbatim ofcourse. Point 1 is disingenous because nobody is excusing that weird behavior. Point 2 requires evidence that MJ fucked the kids when sleeping with them which so far you haven't done.

I am not sure what the problem is.

Extreme conclusion, are you kidding me? The guy admits to sleeping with kids then paid out $23 million to avoid his day in court. No innocent guy would ever do that, especially not one with access to the best lawyers on the planet.

Guess what? That's strange, weird, odd, suspicious.

Its not proof that he fucked kids.

 

[DForce]

Winter John doesn't care about facts, he's going to keep repeating the same lies over and over again.

It's been stated multiple times that the $20 million dollar settlement was not hush money and Jordan Chandler was still able to testify against Michael Jackson if they brought criminal charges against Michael Jackson.

It doesn't matter how many times anyone says this, he's still going to say Michael Jackson paid the Jordan Chandler $25 million to keep quiet.

 

[Rock And Roll]

Pretty much why I stopped arguing with the guy. It's going to be "he fucked kids dur hur Where's your proof him being found innocent in a court after an extensive criminal investigation isn't proof hurrr durrr"

Dude has all his facts from a national enquirer in 1993 and refuses to ignore all the evidence that supported an innocent verdict.

 

[highrider]

I disagree that "anyone" can be a potential evil doer. There are acres of smoke there.

Well I’m glad you aren’t sitting in judgment of me.

 

[gohepcat]

There will never....ever be any evidence. You are going to have to rely on your experience as a human being interacting with other human beings to make a decision about who you believe.

In my experience, the victims are obviously telling the truth. Their behavior and complex emotions about this are perfectly in line with what I would expect (child sexual abuse victim's relationships with their abusers is often very complex)

I have no doubt in my mind that he did this.

 

[mckmas8808]

There will never....ever be any evidence. You are going to have to rely on your experience as a human being interacting with other human beings to make a decision about who you believe.

In my experience, the victims are obviously telling the truth. Their behavior and complex emotions about this are perfectly in line with what I would expect (child sexual abuse victim's relationships with their abusers is often very complex)

I have no doubt in my mind that he did this.

This is pretty much how I feel too.

 

[DForce]

There will never....ever be any evidence. You are going to have to rely on your experience as a human being interacting with other human beings to make a decision about who you believe.

In my experience, the victims are obviously telling the truth. Their behavior and complex emotions about this are perfectly in line with what I would expect (child sexual abuse victim's relationships with their abusers is often very complex)

I have no doubt in my mind that he did this.

It's easy to lie and fake emotions when it's not live and you can do plenty of outtakes.

It's odd that people think they're obviously telling the truth knowing they lied so many times.