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[Einbroch]

I'm just starting to throw in some harder muscle training into my workout, but my chest and arms are REALLY sore. I worked out pretty hardcore on Thursday, and I can't work out Friday/Saturday/Sunday because I pull 10+ hour shifts on these days and it's just not realistic.

So should I be working out on days when my muscles are sore? I've heard it can really help but then I've heard it can be detrimental. Also, any hints to get rid of these sore muscles? Lifting stuff at work, even something as light as 15 pounds, is killing me.

 

[NomarTyme]

Got to let your body adapt to your new workout, so you're better off resting. Also are you getting enough sleep? If you don't get enough sleep it'll be harder for you to recover.

 

[LocoMrPollock]

I'm just starting to throw in some harder muscle training into my workout, but my chest and arms are REALLY sore. I worked out pretty hardcore on Thursday, and I can't work out Friday/Saturday/Sunday because I pull 10+ hour shifts on these days and it's just not realistic.

So should I be working out on days when my muscles are sore? I've heard it can really help but then I've heard it can be detrimental. Also, any hints to get rid of these sore muscles? Lifting stuff at work, even something as light as 15 pounds, is killing me.

You better just start out with the Monday/Wednesday/Friday routine. And let your body rest on the weekend.

After you get into better shape you can add in some different routines (work different muscle groups) for Tuesday and Thursday.

The soreness will go away and even feel good once you get into shape.

 

[teh_pwn]

I'm just starting to throw in some harder muscle training into my workout, but my chest and arms are REALLY sore. I worked out pretty hardcore on Thursday, and I can't work out Friday/Saturday/Sunday because I pull 10+ hour shifts on these days and it's just not realistic.

So should I be working out on days when my muscles are sore? I've heard it can really help but then I've heard it can be detrimental. Also, any hints to get rid of these sore muscles? Lifting stuff at work, even something as light as 15 pounds, is killing me.

Rest. You may get some short term gains by overtraining, but long term you'll probably get into a nasty catabolic state and lose both fat and muscle without correcting the insulin and leptin resistance that got you fat in the first place.

I think exercise and body composition has more to do with the hormonal response to the exercise. When it comes down to it, 300 calories from a workout is trivial compared to the 2000+ burned when sedentary. The real benefit is from increasing anabolic hormones...you increase the flow of calories from body fat to lean tissue & increase metabolism.

I myself am mixing HIIT, 30 minute moderate cardio, carb resistriction (with emphasis on fructose & grains), and I may start counting calories to cap myself at 1500. I don't think it's necessary, but I only have 15 more lbs of fat to lose, and I want to speed things up a bit.

After I've reached my goal (probably September), I'm probably just going to do HIIT, weights, and fructose/grain restriction and let my appetite guide my eating.

Got to let your body adapt to your new workout, so you're better off resting. Also are you getting enough sleep? If you don't get enough sleep it'll be harder for you to recover.

If I recall correctly, sleep also releases growth hormone, which makes losing fat easier.

 

[teh_pwn]

Be more worried about the sodium.

Yeah, way too much sodium all of the time probably isn't good for you. But on a low carb diet, you have less insulin on average, and so your kidneys let go of salt faster. That's the reason why the ketogenic diet can have a very quick 5 lbs of water weight loss...less salt=>less water retention.

You may actually want to slightly increase sodium intake on a low carb diet. Also be sure you're getting potassium, magnesium, and calcium. Most people don't get enough of potassium & magnesium.

 

[Chinner]

I'm just starting to throw in some harder muscle training into my workout, but my chest and arms are REALLY sore. I worked out pretty hardcore on Thursday, and I can't work out Friday/Saturday/Sunday because I pull 10+ hour shifts on these days and it's just not realistic.

So should I be working out on days when my muscles are sore? I've heard it can really help but then I've heard it can be detrimental. Also, any hints to get rid of these sore muscles? Lifting stuff at work, even something as light as 15 pounds, is killing me.

Recovery and sleep is really important. You got to work up to regular work out sessions. Don't push yourself and if you don't feel up to it then just skip a day.

 

[Domino Theory]

Be more worried about the sodium.

200mg less than your typical Subway footlong that I used to have 6 days a week for the past year so I'm not worried.

 

[Einbroch]

Thanks for the advice. You guys are the bestest.

 

[Karak]

Concerning carb levels to get into Keto.

It is insanely sensitive. But it is also different for different people. My level has to drop to 30 or below to actually get into Keto. However, I feel AMAZING the entire time, unlike many others who seem to get fatigue. Basically I end up feeling like I am always in my second wind. Its amazing.

 

[Corky]

Concerning carb levels to get into Keto.

It is insanely sensitive. But it is also different for different people. My level has to drop to 30 or below to actually get into Keto. However, I feel AMAZING the entire time, unlike many others who seem to get fatigue. Basically I end up feeling like I am always in my second wind. Its amazing.

I hate you

my bench has gone from personal best of 340lbs to 245 ffs.....this weightloss better be ending up raining pussy all over my head or else I'm doing this for nothing :I....well... healthy something something lifestyle

 

[JCX]

Has anyone here been overweight and gotten into shape through lifting and cardio? I'm not sure if I should reduce my resistance training and focus on cardio and weight loss until I reach a good weight, then start resistance training, or if I should just keep mixing the two now.

 

[talisayNon]

I'm starting to lend a little more credence to the theory that links gut flora to obesity (teh_pwn's post on prebiotics) .

http://thehealthyskeptic.org/podcasts/THSpodcast_episode1.mp3

I've been working mushrooms/onions/garlic more into my diet and I'm finding myself less and less hungry. The fibers in almonds/other veggies get me hungry after a certain point...but something about the mushrooms/onions/garlic just stops the hunger trigger.

According to that podcast it's prebiotics, specifically inulin that lowers leptin resistance and satiates. Interesting stuff.

Probably going to try and find a way to work radicchio into my diet.

 

[Domino Theory]

Concerning carb levels to get into Keto.

It is insanely sensitive. But it is also different for different people. My level has to drop to 30 or below to actually get into Keto. However, I feel AMAZING the entire time, unlike many others who seem to get fatigue. Basically I end up feeling like I am always in my second wind. Its amazing.

How can you tell when you go into Ketosis and how much you need?

 

[Chinner]

How can you tell when you go into Ketosis and how much you need?

to be 100% sure, you'll need to use piss sticks.

 

[teh_pwn]

Has anyone here been overweight and gotten into shape through lifting and cardio? I'm not sure if I should reduce my resistance training and focus on cardio and weight loss until I reach a good weight, then start resistance training, or if I should just keep mixing the two now.

Yes, I did in 2005. But I was also on a low glycemic index diet, which is in some ways moderate carb restriction (but with whole grain bread). I also recall limiting *most* sugar (edit: I recall BBQ chicken sandwiches on whole grain).

I was in summer semester of college, campus was empty, and a palace sized gym was within a tenth of a mile of my apartment. For one month I only had a couple of classes per week, so I went to the gym for 3 hours. Moderate weights, and then I did 3 hours of cardio. I'd cycle through elliptical, walking/jogging, cycling in about 30 minute sessions.

I went from 160 lbs at 5' 8.5" to 135 lbs. I lost mostly fat, but lost quite a bit of muscle too.

A couple of months ago I was 184, now I'm 174. I think my target weight is 160 as I only have 2" left on my waist to lose to get to the same size as in 2005 @ 134 lbs. I have a lot more muscle now because of P90X.

While I admit that chronic cardio works short term, I'm not a fan long term. Something went wrong in 2008 with my patella (knee cap) causing inflammation. Simply walking up stairs with induce pain/inflammation. Tried doctors, icing, anti-inflammatory pills, knee braces, cortisone injections, 1.5 years of rest/ankle weights to build up muscles/foam rollers on my IT band.

About a month ago it suddenly got better. My best guess is that I'm allergic to something I was eating, as I went on a low carb diet 2 months ago, but it could have been something else. It could have been injury induced by over-training (injury showed up when I was doing excessive cardio again). I probably need to go to a non-quack food allergist/nutritionist to find out what's going on to be sure.

Maybe I just have weak legs or something, but I'm more of a fan of limiting sugar/fructose/wheat/soy to lose fat, and exercise for other health benefits. Seems likely that stuff like HIIT & weights can speed up fat loss under the right conditions of rest/nutrition.

 

[Price Dalton]

I'm starting to lend a little more credence to the theory that links gut flora to obesity (teh_pwn's post on prebiotics) .

http://thehealthyskeptic.org/podcasts/THSpodcast_episode1.mp3

I've been working mushrooms/onions/garlic more into my diet and I'm finding myself less and less hungry. The fibers in almonds/other veggies get me hungry after a certain point...but something about the mushrooms/onions/garlic just stops the hunger trigger.

According to that podcast it's prebiotics, specifically inulin that lowers leptin resistance and satiates. Interesting stuff.

Probably going to try and find a way to work radicchio into my diet.

Jicama is a fantastic, cheap source of inulin. Buy a couple each week, cut em up, stick the pieces in tupperware, and snack throughout the week with lime and chili.

Some other links of interest:

Paleobiotics lab
Cooling Inflammation, a biochem researcher's blog on inflammation, gut flora, obesity, and how it all relates to disease and diet.
The Whole Health Source post on butyric acid, a beneficial short chain fatty acid produced by gut flora in response to inulin.

 

[DarkKyo]

Me a few years ago(max 250 lbs) vs. me today(this morning 149 lbs)... It's been a long few years with lots of working out!

 

[acksman]

Anyone have any experience losing weight with hypoglycemia? Usually when my blood sugar drops my Dr. tells me to eat carbs or sugar. I do not do the sugar, but usually try to counteract my LBS drop with a piece of protein first or a few carbs.

The odd thing, I found out I had hypoglycemia about 4 yrs ago. I stopped drinking any carbonated drinks immediately, and cut my sugars down by 80 to 90 percent. I rarely eat any sweets.

Now I do travel quite a bit and usually have to hit the restaurants, which I can take only so much. The only fast food I do anymore is chick-fil-a and I only do the charbroiled or the wrap without any sauce.

I am around 320lbs and have tons of energy, walk when I can, but damn my body just will not kick in with losing this fat.

Lately I have tried to increase my fiber drastically with oatmeal and a bar I found at Walgreen's called Extend, which contains uncooked cornstarch that converts to blood sugar very slowly to control my dips.

If anyone has some good reading material or guidance to point me in the right way I would appreciate it. I have to just been very careful to get the foods I know that work now in my body, or I get very dizzy, headaches, and just can't think straight until I get a hit of protein.

 

[teh_pwn]

Jicama is a fantastic, cheap source of inulin. Buy a couple each week, cut em up, stick the pieces in tupperware, and snack throughout the week with lime and chili.

Some other links of interest:

Paleobiotics lab
Cooling Inflammation, a biochem researcher's blog on inflammation, gut flora, obesity, and how it all relates to disease and diet.
The Whole Health Source post on butyric acid, a beneficial short chain fatty acid produced by gut flora in response to inulin.

Thanks for the links. That cooling inflammation blog looks very interesting. Don't know how I missed Stephan's post on butyrate. Looks like I need to up the raw veggies and non-sweetened yogurt.

Always good to be a skeptic, but if that data holds up in humans it's huge. As big as the wheat flour correlation in the china study, and resveratrol in rats. I had almost written off fiber.

 

[ShinNL]

Hey everyone,

I've been restricting myself to a low carb diet for the first time in my life and the results so far are amazing (about 6 days in). I used to be very calorie-centric and just focused on low calorie. No hunger and delicious meals. It's sooo much better than always being hungry and always having to worry about calories and fat intake. But the best of all: the results are amazing. With a low-cal diet I had problems losing the right weight: maintain muscles and lose fat. I can already clearly tell in the mirror that eating low carb kills the fat! I really don't care about my weight since I've been into the right BMI for years, but always still felt fat underneath my clothes (even during periods of heavy fitness/cardio).

I've read every page in this thread and it feels like a lot of things I've learned were lies. I used to have a full basket of fruit and eat it whenever I was hungry. I thought whole grain bread is simply just healthy to eat. I guess those things are healthy... but not when my goal is fat loss.

It feels elevating to finally know what I was doing wrong all this time.

Now I do worry about getting out of ketosis. I don't have any real problems with symptoms but what do I do after this phase? Atkins suggests multiple phases, eventually ending in staying a low carb diet forever. I've tried googling for information on switching from a low carb diet to a low cal diet only to realize that it definitely won't work. So everything I've learned in my life about calories is useless and there's no point in going back to that.

In this thread on another forum someone suggests switching to a Paleo diet. I'm not an athlete so I'm not sure if this is the right choice. But the variety in meals seems to be healthier (because I don't want to keep relying on vitamin pills as I'm doing now). I'm not even sure if that will work for me since fruits do have lots of carbs and right now I'm a bit scared of getting back to that.

Anyone with experience that can help me out with some suggestions?
Thanks in advance.

 

[talisayNon]

Jicama is a fantastic, cheap source of inulin. Buy a couple each week, cut em up, stick the pieces in tupperware, and snack throughout the week with lime and chili.

Some other links of interest:

Paleobiotics lab
Cooling Inflammation, a biochem researcher's blog on inflammation, gut flora, obesity, and how it all relates to disease and diet.
The Whole Health Source post on butyric acid, a beneficial short chain fatty acid produced by gut flora in response to inulin.

Thanks for that.. this really is interesting stuff. Makes a load of sense too. Just hate how I'm now forced to buy grass fed beef. :lol That stuff about animals getting fed antibiotics is scary.

 

[Corky]

Guys, halp-time

I've been in ketosis for 10 days or so now
gone from 195 lbs to 185 lbs
waist has gone from 39" to 37"
very little ( or so I presume judging by inevitable performance dip ) muscle loss.

My aim is to hit 165 lbs within 3 months ( I passed all my classes and my job is flexible so I'm going to put 100% of my focus on this ).

Should I stick with it? That might sound like a dumb question but I have no idea what the effects are, I'm sure theres a plethora of debates stating this or that regarding low carb diets. But I need to know from the proponents of low-carb diets, am I in any kind risk-zone?

- I feel good even though I'm ketosis ( the first days were hell but now its smooth sailing)
- I feel vigorous, I've gone from sitting still in my room all day to biking atleast 15 miles everyday
- Again, I've gotten weaker but from the looks of it I Havent really lost muscles, trying to stay on 1g of protein per pound



So. Should I keep going with this and run this stretch between 185 and 165? I.e should I stay with my diet until I hit my desired weight?

 

[infiniteloop]

someone suggests switching to a Paleo diet. I'm not an athlete so I'm not sure if this is the right choice.

Doesn't have anything to do with being an athlete or not.

 

[Entropia]

I'm absolutely baffled at how you guys are doing this. I've been working 4 KM(sometimes 8) Monday to Friday for the past month and I don't see or feel a change. My diet is pretty good, but a lot of you guys seem to be getting the best results from Ketosis.

 

[teh_pwn]

I've read every page in this thread and it feels like a lot of things I've learned were lies. I used to have a full basket of fruit and eat it whenever I was hungry. I thought whole grain bread is simply just healthy to eat. I guess those things are healthy... but not when my goal is fat loss.

It feels elevating to finally know what I was doing wrong all this time.

I wouldn't say that the entire nutritional field has lied to us. I seems like a dozen of pseudo-scientists that put ego in front of the scientific method over the 1950s-1970s selectively picked data that supported their hypothesis. They wrote a lot of the medical text books in the 1970s, so even well intentioned MDs with the little exposure they get to nutrition aren't shown all of the data.

"Good Calories, Bad Calories" spends over a hundred pages going through the history. There were a lot of scientists in the 1920s-1970s that pretty much got it, but were crowded out. A great example is John Yudkin. He accurately predicted what sugar would do to people over time.

Now I do worry about getting out of ketosis. I don't have any real problems with symptoms but what do I do after this phase? Atkins suggests multiple phases, eventually ending in staying a low carb diet forever. I've tried googling for information on switching from a low carb diet to a low cal diet only to realize that it definitely won't work. So everything I've learned in my life about calories is useless and there's no point in going back to that.

In this thread on another forum someone suggests switching to a Paleo diet. I'm not an athlete so I'm not sure if this is the right choice. But the variety in meals seems to be healthier (because I don't want to keep relying on vitamin pills as I'm doing now). I'm not even sure if that will work for me since fruits do have lots of carbs and right now I'm a bit scared of getting back to that.

Anyone with experience that can help me out with some suggestions?
Thanks in advance.

Atkins and Paleo overlap a lot, especially if you stick with Paleo food choices when on Atkins.

I've briefly read over Atkins, and it seems very flexible. So if you have very little fat to lose, sometimes people skip the Induction phase/Ketosis. For faster results or heavier people, it recommends extended ketosis. I'd say experiment and find what works best with you. You don't have to do ketosis to lose fat.

 

[Door2Dawn]

I just ate a double cheeseburger and a large fry. I'm so fucking weak.

But this was my first meal for Mcdonalds, so thats okay right?

 

[teh_pwn]

Guys, halp-time

I've been in ketosis for 10 days or so now
gone from 195 lbs to 185 lbs
waist has gone from 39" to 37"
very little ( or so I presume judging by inevitable performance dip ) muscle loss.

My aim is to hit 165 lbs within 3 months ( I passed all my classes and my job is flexible so I'm going to put 100% of my focus on this ).

Should I stick with it? That might sound like a dumb question but I have no idea what the effects are, I'm sure theres a plethora of debates stating this or that regarding low carb diets. But I need to know from the proponents of low-carb diets, am I in any kind risk-zone?

- I feel good even though I'm ketosis ( the first days were hell but now its smooth sailing)
- I feel vigorous, I've gone from sitting still in my room all day to biking atleast 15 miles everyday
- Again, I've gotten weaker but from the looks of it I Havent really lost muscles, trying to stay on 1g of protein per pound



So. Should I keep going with this and run this stretch between 185 and 165? I.e should I stay with my diet until I hit my desired weight?

I don't think ketosis would be unhealthy, as it's likely humans before the agricultural revolution went for months without carbs during the winter.

Get some empirical data showing that you're healthier.

1. Get blood work, and look at:
A. LDL -may go up a bit, but it's large & bouyant on low carb, I don't think doctors have the labs to tell the difference
B. HDL - Should have gone up, which is typically good
C. Fasting blood glucose - should be way down
D. Triglycerides - also way down

2. Blood pressure. Should be down at least 5 points. This is because lot of people get high blood pressure from fructose metabolism, or salt retention due to hyperinsulinemia.

3. Get ketosis strips. If you're in the max ketones area, drink more water. If you're still in the max area, I'd consult a doctor and probably up the carbs a bit from vegetables, sweet potatoes, berries, and nuts.

I just ate a double cheeseburger and a large fry. I'm so fucking weak.

But this was my first meal for Mcdonalds, so thats okay right?

Your mistake was mostly the fries, and the bun. If you need a cheat meal at McDonalds, get the double quarter pounder, remove the bun, remove the corn syrup tomato-like paste, and add some sliced real cheese on it, and eat away.

 

[teh_pwn]

I'm absolutely baffled at how you guys are doing this. I've been working 4 KM(sometimes 8) Monday to Friday for the past month and I don't see or feel a change. My diet is pretty good, but a lot of you guys seem to be getting the best results from Ketosis.

Some ideas:
1. Create a food log & estimate caloric intake.
-May expose calories from eating out of habit rather than hunger.

2. Compare caloric intake between cardio days and non-cardio days.
-May show that cardio isn't fixing your metabolism, just making you hungrier
-May show that you've been subconsciously treating yourself to too much food after exercising.

3. If you do find too many calories, and your hunger is too hard to fight to reach your desired caloric intake, try reducing sugar/grains. Replace them with eggs, meat, vegetables. Then compare to results prior to the change.

4. Try replacing every other 4-8 km jog/run with 1 km of HIIT.

 

[Domino Theory]

Before I started my low-carb diet a week ago:

Weight: 265
Average Blood Pressure: 133/89

One week after my low-carb diet (started last Monday, July 5th):

Weight: 260
Blood Pressure (recorded today): 116/66

I feel fucking fantastic.

 

[teh_pwn]

Yeah, isn't it ironic how quick and strong the cardiovascular benefits are? I mean for all of the crap Atkins got about his diet being bad for the heart, it really does quite the opposite.

My blood pressure was about 135-140/85 when I started 2.5 months ago. It was one of the reasons why I started rethinking nutrition because I was eating "healthy". Now I'm 110/75, which is what I was in college. And the change is pretty quick.

I had this annoying twitch around my right eye for over a year, and just before I started my diet, I started getting them in other places in my body. I haven't had a single occurrence after several days into it.

Two reasons that I know of are:
1. Insulin causes the kidneys to retain more salt, which causes the body to retain more water, which increases blood pressure.
2. Fructose (from sucrose/HFCS) increases uric acid in the blood, which increases blood pressure.

 

[grumble]

Good Calories, Bad Calories was such a load of crap, and I say this as someone who prefers a moderately low-carb diet with reduced grains and sugar.

Weight loss has been and will continue to be a caloric issue dramatically more than anything else.

 

[ch0mp]

You've convinced me.

 

[Price Dalton]

Everyone focuses on Taubes' carbohydrate hypothesis, but the real beauty of GCBC, for me, was his destruction of the lipid hypothesis.

Besides, I don't think anyone's suggesting calories don't figure into weight loss, or that people are gaining weight while eating fewer calories. We need to understand what's making people hungrier - why the hell are they eating so much food? It's not like people just up and started eating more food for the hell of it during the 70s. Something changed to make them hungrier. Something is fucking with people's hormones.

 

[Corky]

snipz.

Thanks for the input buddy. I'll stick with this for another 20 pounds then

Thats also very interesting about ketostix that which you wrote, I was always wondering why I was only in the middle of the scale. I reckon being full dark purple ketosis isnt desirable

Anywho

my total weightloss has been

last summer 115kg / 255lbs
today 85kg / 183lbs

I'm not sure how I'll look at 75kg but if I'm not happy I'll shed another 5 to hit that 70kg spot.

 

[Chinner]

thinking of adapting my low carb diet.....seems kind of pointless seeing as i'm already skinny and trying to put on muscle :lol . still, this last month + of low/no carb eating has left me with pretty much no desire to eat carbs at all and i'm pretty happy with what i eat. luckily SA delivers again:

Cyclical Ketogenic Diets: Low carb for bodybuilding,endurance,etc

1.) The Standard Ketogenic Diet (SKD), generally the best for fat loss until you reach lower levels of bodyfat (12-15% for men, 18-22% for women). Please go here: http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...11&pagenumber=1

thats what most of us were on.

but thinking of changing to either:

2.) The Cyclical Ketogenic Diet (CKD), generally the best for endurance, strength gains, or those looking to go below normal bodyfat levels. There are many different forms of this diet (The Anabolic Diet, Dave Palumbo's Diet, The Metabolic Diet). The specific reference diet for information in this post is Lyle McDonald's Ultimate Diet 2.0. The basis is a long period of low carb, a depletion workout followed by a short period of high carb/high protein/low fat/low sugar/low fructose to fill muscles with glycogen, upregulate metabolic function (including the hormone leptin). This thread will mostly focus on the CKD, as the TKD is very simple and similar to the SKD. See below.

or

3.) The Targeted Ketogenic Diet (TKD), generally for those that cannot or do not want to include carb up days, but want some of the benefit of carbs during/after training. From Lyle McDonald's The Ketogenic Diet:

The TKD is a compromise approach between the SKD and the CKD. The TKD will allow individuals on a ketogenic diet to perform high intensity activity (or aerobic exercise for long periods of time) without having to interrupt ketosis for long periods of time.
Weight training is not generally limited by the availability of blood glucose. Studies giving carbs prior to resistance training have not found an increase in performance (1). However, almost without exception, individuals on a SKD who consume pre-workout carbs report improved strength and endurance and an ability to maintain a higher intensity of training during their workout. Anyone following a ketogenic diet who wishes to perform high intensity training can benefit from the TKD approach.

i'm thinking of changing to TKD. Looks easier and fits in more with the fact that I don't really want cards. CKB looks to be most effective, but also seems to require a shit load of organizing and time slotting.

 

[industrian]

When I left Korea in May I was 15 stone. When I left Japan last Monday I was around 14 stone.

Hell yeah son, within a few weeks I'll be 13 stone n' shit. With my height (6'7" or some shit) I should lose my gut and most visible body fat entirely. Feels good man.

Next month I go to the doctor to see if I can work out again. Fucking can't wait. I miss my deadlifts n' shit. I miss eating 3000+ calories n' shit too.

Spoiler

Yeah motherfucker, I used stones. Deal with it.

 

[Chinner]

you're 6'7? jesus christ. you should be put in a zoo.

 

[Draft]

I just ate a double cheeseburger and a large fry. I'm so fucking weak.

But this was my first meal for Mcdonalds, so thats okay right?

If you'd only not eaten the fries, all you'd have to feel guilty for would be the massive does of sodium.

 

[teh_pwn]

Everyone focuses on Taubes' carbohydrate hypothesis, but the real beauty of GCBC, for me, was his destruction of the lipid hypothesis.

Besides, I don't think anyone's suggesting calories don't figure into weight loss, or that people are gaining weight while eating fewer calories. We need to understand what's making people hungrier - why the hell are they eating so much food? It's not like people just up and started eating more food for the hell of it during the 70s. Something changed to make them hungrier. Something is fucking with people's hormones.

Agreed that it isn't that Taubes thinks that calories isn't important, but that he thinks it doesn't show causality. Taubes focuses on insulin resistance causing excessive hunger and insulin's biological behavior to store fat.

If there is a criticism I have of "Good Calories, Bad Calories" is that it kind of simplifies insulin too much. He doesn't talk too much about leptin, and possible causes of insulin resistance (I think, I read the book so fast and read other health stuff at the same time).

Part of the reason why he doesn't talk about leptin is that the book covers scientific literature from 1850-2007. I think leptin was discovered in the late 1990s.

Thanks for the input buddy. I'll stick with this for another 20 pounds then

Thats also very interesting about ketostix that which you wrote, I was always wondering why I was only in the middle of the scale. I reckon being full dark purple ketosis isnt desirable

Anywho

my total weightloss has been

last summer 115kg / 255lbs
today 85kg / 183lbs

I'm not sure how I'll look at 75kg but if I'm not happy I'll shed another 5 to hit that 70kg spot.

Middle range is good. Basically you're in ketosis or you're not. If you're not drinking enough liquid, you get a higher density of ketones. If I recall correctly, there are multiple types of ketones created. The ones the body cannot use are what the strips are detecting. Probably not a good idea to have the high end of the reading, because I think that's intended for diabetics that have some sort of disorder involving too many ketones.

 

[Price Dalton]

Agreed that it isn't that Taubes thinks that calories isn't important, but that he thinks it doesn't show causality. Taubes focuses on insulin resistance causing excessive hunger and insulin's biological behavior to store fat.

If there is a criticism I have of "Good Calories, Bad Calories" is that it kind of simplifies insulin too much. He doesn't talk too much about leptin, and possible causes of insulin resistance (I think, I read the book so fast and read other health stuff at the same time).

Well said.

Yeah, leptin kinda flew under everyone's radar, but it's really getting a lot of attention these days. It was only discovered in the last decade or two, I think.

 

[industrian]

you're 6'7? jesus christ. you should be put in a zoo.

Give or take. I think I've shrunk due to not working out and/or my caloric deficit but that may be psychosomatic or something.

And no u.

 

[Korey]

Can anyone recommend a good no/low carb frozen dinner line?

 

[rSpooky]

Well started a runningday, cycling or eliptical day,rest/recovery day cycle , plus better food habits and I have lost 9 lbs in the past 3,5 weeks. I am not doing a no-carb, since I need fibers to lower my cholesterol and up my good cholesterol etc.
But there is a downward trend, body is tightning a bit and my size 38 pants are now falling of while using the last notch on the belt so I am on a good path.

It is also great to first not bing able to run for 30 seconds without gasping for air to runnign 2 miles (including inclines etc) When i passed the mark I turned around and flipped off the road that had been breaking me all this time on to the 3 miles.


I

 

[Chinner]

Can anyone recommend a good no/low carb frozen dinner line?

in the uk? not that i know off. try your local diet shops. to be frank, no carb meals require planning and unless you keep it simple then you're probably going to be making most meals.

seems a bit of a turn off, but once you get into it its really satisfying and boosts your confidence in your cooking skills.

 

[Yaweee]

The scale was down to ~174.6 this morning, meaning I've lost over 20 lbs in the last 2 months. I think I'll easily hit my goal of 170 soon, and will probably end up dropping to around ~165.

 

[teh_pwn]

Well started a runningday, cycling or eliptical day,rest/recovery day cycle , plus better food habits and I have lost 9 lbs in the past 3,5 weeks. I am not doing a no-carb, since I need fibers to lower my cholesterol and up my good cholesterol etc.
I

There is no such thing as good cholesterol and bad cholesterol. LDL and HDL aren't cholesterol. They are lipoproteins.

LDL becomes problematic when it's small and dense, and that happens when triglycerides are high. Triglycerides are high when you eat lots of sugar and flour, or anything that increases blood glucose significantly. Too much blood sugar is toxic, and so the body converts it into triglycerides.

You don't have to go low carb to avoid this, but in general any good diet should avoid sugar and high glycemic index carbohydrates.

Some references, and they have dozens of references within them:

http://www.jpands.org/vol10no3/colpo.pdf
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/67/3/573S.pdf

 

[grumble]

Agreed that it isn't that Taubes thinks that calories isn't important, but that he thinks it doesn't show causality. Taubes focuses on insulin resistance causing excessive hunger and insulin's biological behavior to store fat.

If there is a criticism I have of "Good Calories, Bad Calories" is that it kind of simplifies insulin too much. He doesn't talk too much about leptin, and possible causes of insulin resistance (I think, I read the book so fast and read other health stuff at the same time).

Part of the reason why he doesn't talk about leptin is that the book covers scientific literature from 1850-2007. I think leptin was discovered in the late 1990s.

I have a few other criticisms of Good Calories, Bad Calories.

1. He ignores ASP, which cripples his premise. ASP is to fat what insulin is to protein and carbs.
2. He uses self-reported caloric intake for overweight people. It has been shown repeatedly that overweight people tend to significantly under-report their calories. When this adjustment has been put in place, it shows that it's the calories, not the macros that overwhelmingly determine obesity incidence. This also cripples, if not totally kills his premise.
3. Ketosis diets, when calories are kept identical, do not offer a rate of fat loss (after the initial whoosh of water weight) higher than those on a standard diet. One theory is that due to the food limitations under keto diets people end up eating fewer calories, which is the reason why they are so lauded.

As for some other things (specifically other 'diseases of civilization'), my opinion so far is mixed. I'm not a huge fan of processed foods and sugars in general, and on a personal basis I agree with this, but (aside from trans fats, which are caught cold) we need more research on their effect on these issues.

As for leptin resistance, that affects people differently. Satiety levels in studies where protein was kept constant didn't report any significant difference in feeling of satiety between high-fat and high-carb meals, indicating that protein is the number one determinant of satiety. Longer-term, I can't say. I'll need to do some more reading of the research available. From what I can see the response is individual.

I just found the whole premise of his book to be off and subject to selection bias and a definite agenda (much like Ancel Keys, ironically).

 

[teh_pwn]

I have a few other criticisms of Good Calories, Bad Calories.

1. He ignores ASP, which cripples his premise. ASP is to fat what insulin is to protein and carbs.

You posted about ASP before. I'm having trouble finding information about it. But if I recall correctly it's like a weaker hormone that insulin that secreted by fat tissue that weakly stores fat? Something that would keep the body clinging on 20 lbs of fat or so?

So what would the strategy be to lower ASP? Reduce dietary fat intake? Would combining this concept with insulin & leptin infer something like 40 Protein/30 Fat/30 Carb, with the carbs primarily from vegetables, sweet potatoes, nuts and some fruits?

 

[Vague]

I only eat around 1500-2000 calories which is about right for a girl my height and weight but my fiance eats like 3000+ every single day and has been losing weight faster than me the entire time (yeah I know guys lose it faster blah blah), even when he stopped going to the gym for two months because of StarCraft 2 beta. :lol

He went from 286 to 220 at 6'1 and eats literally like 4 pounds of various meats a day and is doing zero carb now that we're back to our regular 3x/week lifting: http://forum.zeroinginonhealth.com/

I am really convinced calories mean absolutely nothing if you're eating a ketogenic diet.

 

[~Kinggi~]

So i weighed 210 in late May, and now i weigh 188! i have gotten there by basically doing the following.

-I eat plain, no fat yogurt in the morning, with a glass of this berry juice i like.
-Sometimes in the mornings i have a cup of coffee from DD.
-For lunch i have a half-foot sub fro subway with wheat grain bread, turkey, onions, green peppers, tomato and honey mustard.
-For dinner i have been having Steak and sometimes chicken. I use a bunch of different spices all over the place to give it more flavor.
-I only really drink carbonated water with lemon juice sprinkled in. Sometimes i have diet soda for lunch.
-And then 4-5 days a week i do about 35-40 minutes on a standing elliptical machine at a gym.

I also occasionally have a glass of red wine some nights. I have only had 1 dessert in the last 2 months, and that was when i went out to dinner one time. Its okay to cheat every now and then.

Im gonna try to go down to 180 or so this month. I am 5'11. Thought i would just give a detailed rundown for the hell of it, since it seems to be working for me.