If Crimson holds the power for a number of days, maybe this will be more important. There's not much to take from it at this time.
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Werewolf |OT| Was it all just a Dream?
- Thread starter Palmer_v1
- Start date
If Crimson holds the power for a number of days, maybe this will be more important. There's not much to take from it at this time.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
Why would the wolves even target the double voter if another player gets the mantle directly anyway? Seems like a setup to let Crimson get the power.
Drop was confirmed Town. That's far more powerful than a double vote at this stage of the game. Killing him removes an element of certainty and puts suspicion on his deputy. The wolves don't need control of the role to use it to their advantage.
I suggest we largely ignore the sheriff until such a time comes that we need to stop ignoring it. Focusing too much on that aspect of the game instead of hunting scum is playing right into the enemy's hands.
Drop being killed makes me strongly suspect there is a scum switcher. A doctor is pretty much expected, watchers etc are also a possibility. The fact that scum were willing to target Drop so early despite all this suggests they have a way to bypass it (switcher being the most likely option).
Actually, this reminds me of a post Zipped made recently
Actually, this reminds me of a post Zipped made recently
Zippedpinhead
Member
And lose the game in 3 days? Gee let me think about that
Dave, I don't think you are a baker, but whatever the truth please do us all a favour and stop hinting at your role. It is extremely bad play.
Everyone else: new subject please? I'll make the bold prediction that this is a bad lead and will cause unnecessary claims if we pursue it. If everyone involved is alive in a few days feel free to come back to it, but let's table it for now.
I agree with Makai, the people pushing that look pretty suspect, but to me the biggest offender was ZippedPinhead weirdly pushing for more role details beyond a simple Mason.
I wanted clarification because even a soft role claim didn't make sense with how makai acted with Dave. Makai did it and I will leave it alone.
Bolded. Also lol @ this also being the post where he asks Makai to claim.I am thinking that they decided to not risk a visit to drop. If the wolves have a "watcher" ability all they would have to do is target drop and try to kill him. If he doesn't die then they have just found a protective role. So, it's not that we don't have a protective role of do have a protective role, it's that theY didn't want to risk a drop save.
I think that IF we have protective roles then they played that as well as I could have myself. He was an ability magnet a garaunteed town power role.
With the amount of RNG associated with sleepwalkers, it might not be one role that kills all sleeping visitors but maybe one specific person who kills another specific person if they wander in (similar to karkador and his foil in WDIOTL, if one scum role blocker tried to block him she died)
I find it interesting that Xam switched to Daryll but not ultron. he voted Xam and kept to it on our dueling sleepwalkers. Not returning votes is typically not a scum-tell, BUT with there being a revealed scum sleepwalker we have to ask do we have three sleepwalkers?
Personal guess on scum #, no more than 6 possible scum remaining. This guess would include any "recruitable" scum (if such a monster exists in our humble village).
Style's spat with Cabot and his revenge post were weird, he's a new player so maybe it is over eagerness. Still think he is kind of scummy,
Other reads, boo boo'n, swamped and bat snacks all seemed obsessed with the deputy role. This could be two things: 1) ordinary villagers wanting to be elevated and called to a town power role) or scum (trying to influence the choice to someone more advantageous for themselves). I am currently inclined towards the first thought.
Makai? Why the soft claim? Anything you want to report or let us know?
VOTE: ZippedPinhead
Are there any specific posts that make you suspicious, or does the bulk of the suspicion come from Drop's death?
The bulk of it comes from Drop's death indeed. Most of Crimson's post at the beginning of this game was about the deputy role and he said himself that whoever got the role should be placed under suspicion.
Not necessarily. Unless there's another killing role, the wolves essentially get to pick when to let the deputy become sheriff, so anyone in that role when the sheriff is killed should naturally be placed under suspicion.
Of course, they could also use that fact to get us to suspect a villager as well, but it would still be a risky play to let a wolf become sheriff, so I don't think we need to worry too much about it happening.
Of course, like Rats mentions, this could be a move to get us to suspect one of our own as we have no way to guarantee Crimson's alignment at the moment.
Zippedpinhead
Member
Bolded. Also lol @ this also being the post where he asks Makai to claim.
VOTE: ZippedPinhead
So you are using my thinking and agreeing that if we have a doctor that Doctor made the right decision by NOT protecting the sheriff as proof that I am scum?
Whoever is the sheriff is going to die, probably a good chance of that most nights, a doctor risking their life to protect the sheriff ( a known person) is foolhardy. Especially with the closed setup where we don't know if the wolves have a watcher ability.
Not wanting makai to clarify his post? Yeah like asking for answers is always a scum read...
Out of curiosity and as a new player, if he was roleblocked. Does the way night actions work allow a roleblock to take effect before the doctor has picked or does the doctor not know till the day hits?
A roleblock should block the doctor's protection, and the doctor won't know about until the day phase starts, if at all. AFAIK it's not usual for doctors to have "success" or "fail" response PMs to their actions.
QuantumBro
Banned
Man, I'll admit it, I am really confused about the sleep walker roles right now. Can someone explain what the point of a sleep walker is? They visit someone each night, but they don't even know themselves? What's the point of that. <_>
Adding to confusion for the rest of the players.
Why would the wolves even target the double voter if another player gets the mantle directly anyway? Seems like a setup to let Crimson get the power.
So that we can be suspect of Crimson getting the power.
Adding to confusion for the rest of the players.
Does the people who get visited know? I really don't get it. o|-<
A roleblock should block the doctor's protection, and the doctor won't know about until the day phase starts, if at all. AFAIK it's not usual for doctors to have "success" or "fail" response PMs to their actions.
I never received any notification of my protections in mgs. Every kill was switched so my protections were useless.
If we're going meta, Palmer specifically stated he thought the scum switcher was overpowered in that game, so a scum switcher here would be quite a thing. It's worth bringing up that Palmer himself said this isn't a bastard game.
Xamtheking
Member
It's a middle finger to Investigative rolesDoes the people who get visited know? I really don't get it. o|-<
Man, I'll admit it, I am really confused about the sleep walker roles right now. Can someone explain what the point of a sleep walker is? They visit someone each night, but they don't even know themselves? What's the point of that. <_>
They're there to confuse players who gain information about happenings during the night. In a game without sleepwalkers, a player X who sees player A visit player B will know that player A did something to player B, even if it was to gain info. With sleepwalkers, that might not be true - they just happen to "visit" other players for no reason.
Xamtheking
Member
Where is kingkitty at?
CrimsonFist
Member
The bulk of it comes from Drop's death indeed. Most of Crimson's post at the beginning of this game was about the deputy role and he said himself that whoever got the role should be placed under suspicion.
Of course, like Rats mentions, this could be a move to get us to suspect one of our own as we have no way to guarantee Crimson's alignment at the moment.
As I said in my second point, it could go either way, so there's not really much to be gained from suspecting me on the grounds that I'm now sheriff, especially considering that there were other reasons for scum to get rid of Drop.
Any in any case, the point of that post was to say that it would be very risky for scum to become sheriff, although admittedly at the time I was underestimating the usefulness of double voting.
So you are using my thinking and agreeing that if we have a doctor that Doctor made the right decision by NOT protecting the sheriff as proof that I am scum?
Whoever is the sheriff is going to die, probably a good chance of that most nights, a doctor risking their life to protect the sheriff ( a known person) is foolhardy. Especially with the closed setup where we don't know if the wolves have a watcher ability.
I'm wondering about this actually. Would they really use their kill every night to get rid of the sheriff? What's the benefit to that? Especially when other power roles start to become apparent.
No I don't agree that it would be a good play by the doctor. I think the scum's boldness implies the presence of a switcher (or some other method to bypass healers and watchers). Maybe scum do have a watcher, that's not a terrible suggestion, but even if our doctor only made this one save before being discovered, they'd still be pretty much the most successful doctor in Gafia history (slight hyperbole).So you are using my thinking and agreeing that if we have a doctor that Doctor made the right decision by NOT protecting the sheriff as proof that I am scum?
Whoever is the sheriff is going to die, probably a good chance of that most nights, a doctor risking their life to protect the sheriff ( a known person) is foolhardy. Especially with the closed setup where we don't know if the wolves have a watcher ability.
Not wanting makai to clarify his post? Yeah like asking for answers is always a scum read...
You congratulating a (theoretical) cowardly doctor is scummy in my eyes.
To confuse watchers (watchers could be town or scum (or neutral) aligned, as can sleepwalkers)Man, I'll admit it, I am really confused about the sleep walker roles right now. Can someone explain what the point of a sleep walker is? They visit someone each night, but they don't even know themselves? What's the point of that. <_>
CornBurrito
Member
So let me get this straight. We're expected to believe there are 3 sleep walkers?
My vote for now is going to be on Ultron or Xam. Probably Xam.
My vote for now is going to be on Ultron or Xam. Probably Xam.
A good doctor protects role claims in people he/she trusts, otherwise he/she protects people who he believe are good for town or read as a PR.
Not protecting a confirmed townie via public role, with no other official claims on the table is terrible play. Absolutely terrible.
That's all I'll say.
Not protecting a confirmed townie via public role, with no other official claims on the table is terrible play. Absolutely terrible.
That's all I'll say.
Dave was getting the stink eye in every read list and then Flux voted. I preempted because I didn't know if I was going to be around to step in when he started getting real heat. My post took him off the table for Day 1.Makai, why on earth did you push on that direction yesterday, after Dave only had the minimal heat was put on him? You must have realised that it wouldn't be ignored.
Dave was getting the stink eye in every read list and then Flux voted. I preempted because I didn't know if I was going to be around to step in when he started getting real heat. My post took him off the table for Day 1.
No, it put you and him on everyone's radar. After that everyone commented on your light claim. There was some light heat on him yeah, but nobody was seriously discussing on him becoming the major lynch target of day 1.
Xamtheking
Member
Could not agree moreNo, it put you and him on everyone's radar. After that everyone commented on your light claim. There was some light heat on him yeah, but nobody was seriously discussing on him becoming the major lynch target of day 1.
Zippedpinhead
Member
.I'm wondering about this actually. Would they really use their kill every night to get rid of the sheriff? What's the benefit to that? Especially when other power roles start to become apparent.
Not usually, eventually scum will have other leads on targets who they believe are more important than the double voter. There is also the whole wanting to throw suspicion on the deputy. Any sheriff replacement will instantly be suspicious to us on some level. However, with last night being night one I expected the sheriff to die because the wolves likely didn't have any better options.
No I don't agree that it would be a good play by the doctor. I think the scum's boldness implies the presence of a switcher (or some other method to bypass healers and watchers). Maybe scum do have a watcher, that's not a terrible suggestion, but even if our doctor only made this one save before being discovered, they'd still be pretty much the most successful doctor in Gafia history (slight hyperbole).
You congratulating a (theoretical) cowardly doctor is scummy in my eyes.
A doctor who is not overly cautious will die without helping anyone. You are implying that the wolves have a switcher of their own and are using that to bypass protections. Or a town switcher just so happened to pick the person the wolves target. One has been proven overpowered and the other is really unlikely. Or we have a doctor who decided that protecting the sheriff was too big a risk, or we have no doctor at all.
So let me get this straight. We're expected to believe there are 3 sleep walkers?
My vote for now is going to be on Ultron or Xam. Probably Xam.
1 werewolf sleepwalker, 2 town sleepwalkers. I mean, it's possible. But it seems like a lot of sleepwalkers. the real question, though, is why would a non-sleepwalker wolf (i.e. Xam or Ultron) claim sleepwalker when they already knew there was an actual sleepwalker wolf (Terrabyte). That seems like a strange decision.
A good doctor protects role claims in people he/she trusts, otherwise he/she protects people who he believe are good for town or read as a PR.
Not protecting a confirmed townie via public role, with no other official claims on the table is terrible play. Absolutely terrible.
That's all I'll say.
I disagree. The supposed doctor has no way of knowing who would get targeted yesterday, and there's a few reasons why he or she would not choose our Sheriff.
1. The Doctor thought Drop wouldn't be targeted, being so out in the open, so they picked someone else that they had a good read on.
2. The Doctor was afraid of a Wolf watcher would look into who targeted Drop last night, and, upon noticing that Drop wasn't killed, the wolves would have found the Doctor's identity.
3. The doctor was worried about someone else dying.
It's not that unreasonable. The Doctor knows just as we do that Drop's death passes on the baton to another villager, so the power isn't suddenly lost. It's a shame Drop died, but we still have the power of the double vote (assuming CrimsonFist is town). Protecting another villager with a suspected PR could be more logical choice, depending on the circumstances. So no, I don't think it's necessarily a bad play.
.
Not usually, eventually scum will have other leads on targets who they believe are more important than the double voter. There is also the whole wanting to throw suspicion on the deputy. Any sheriff replacement will instantly be suspicious to us on some level. However, with last night being night one I expected the sheriff to die because the wolves likely didn't have any better options.
A doctor who is not overly cautious will die without helping anyone. You are implying that the wolves have a switcher of their own and are using that to bypass protections. Or a town switcher just so happened to pick the person the wolves target. One has been proven overpowered and the other is really unlikely. Or we have a doctor who decided that protecting the sheriff was too big a risk, or we have no doctor at all.
Protecting a confirmed alignment role is what the doctor is for. I don't agree with this at all. It's not risky to protect someone everyone can trust. It's risky for scum to keep this person alive.
Drop died because he was confirmed Town. Killing Sheriff every day is a bad strategy for both Town and Wolves. I don't remember any of CrimsonFist's posts, so dredge 'em up for me if you're suspicious. I think Drop made the right call. Deputy Ultron seemed like a safe bet yesterday, but that was clearly wrong.Why would the wolves even target the double voter if another player gets the mantle directly anyway? Seems like a setup to let Crimson get the power.
CornBurrito
Member
Ok reading more, people make a fair point that Terra seemed fine voting any 3 yesterday. This makes it a bit less likely that Xam is scum. Unless Terra was just that smooth.
Terra's random vote on Zipped looks odd. But that alone isn't really enough for me to think Zipped is scum.
There's a lot of uncertainty here.
I know Splinter tried to force discussion away from this topic, but I do want to add my 2 cents. I find a Baker role as described by Makai just incredibly unlikely. Or was Werewolf intended to be a Bastard Role testing ground?
Terra's random vote on Zipped looks odd. But that alone isn't really enough for me to think Zipped is scum.
There's a lot of uncertainty here.
I know Splinter tried to force discussion away from this topic, but I do want to add my 2 cents. I find a Baker role as described by Makai just incredibly unlikely. Or was Werewolf intended to be a Bastard Role testing ground?
CornBurrito
Member
Protecting a confirmed alignment role is what the doctor is for. I don't agree with this at all. It's not risky to protect someone everyone can trust. It's risky for scum to keep this person alive.
Unless of course Doctor thought someone was more important to protect. Say... if Doctor thought Dave was a Baker and that his death would cause town to lose in 3 days.
1 werewolf sleepwalker, 2 town sleepwalkers. I mean, it's possible. But it seems like a lot of sleepwalkers. the real question, though, is why would a non-sleepwalker wolf (i.e. Xam or Ultron) claim sleepwalker when they already knew there was an actual sleepwalker wolf (Terrabyte). That seems like a strange decision.
I disagree. The supposed doctor has no way of knowing who would get targeted yesterday, and there's a few reasons why he or she would not choose our Sheriff.
1. The Doctor thought Drop wouldn't be targeted, being so out in the open, so they picked someone else that they had a good read on.
2. The Doctor was afraid of a Wolf watcher would look into who targeted Drop last night, and, upon noticing that Drop wasn't killed, the wolves would have found the Doctor's identity.
3. The doctor was worried about someone else dying.
It's not that unreasonable. The Doctor knows just as we do that Drop's death passes on the baton to another villager, so the power isn't suddenly lost. It's a shame Drop died, but we still have the power of the double vote (assuming CrimsonFist is town). Protecting another villager with a suspected PR could be more logical choice, depending on the circumstances. So no, I don't think it's necessarily a bad play.
Your argument is sound, but the only other PR indicator was makai/Dave, then it's a question of choosing one or the other vs the contributions of all three. Drop was clearly the most contributive player out of those three yesterday.
I don't see much use in protecting sleepwalkers.
I value someone we can 100% trust over the other choices.
Unless of course Doctor thought someone was more important to protect. Say... if Doctor thought Dave was a Baker and that his death would cause town to lose in 3 days.
I suppose. I didn't know baker was a real role until today. I thought Dave just went for some basic village job persona
Yes, well, I'm saying that's what I think is most likely. Scum targeted Drop despite them being a likely target for doctors or (even worse) watchers. That's a stupid move N1 without having at least watcher protection.A doctor who is not overly cautious will die without helping anyone. You are implying that the wolves have a switcher of their own and are using that to bypass protections. Or a town switcher just so happened to pick the person the wolves target. One has been proven overpowered and the other is really unlikely. Or we have a doctor who decided that protecting the sheriff was too big a risk, or we have no doctor at all.
Cabot says Palmer hates scum switchers. That makes me less certain, but I didn't know it before
Zippedpinhead
Member
Protecting a confirmed alignment role is what the doctor is for. I don't agree with this at all. It's not risky to protect someone everyone can trust. It's risky for scum to keep this person alive.
Am I really in the minority that the doctor should have potentially wasted his protections on a first day sheriff save and getting found out? That's a risk for everyone he protects, but once you start saying "doctor protect this person" or even implying that you open the doctor up for being found out.
The first sheriff was an ability magnet for the wolves.
Am I really in the minority that the doctor should have potentially wasted his protections on a first day sheriff save and getting found out? That's a risk for everyone he protects, but once you start saying "doctor protect this person" or even implying that you open the doctor up for being found out.
The first sheriff was an ability magnet for the wolves.
Well I mean no one told him to protect the sheriff. He's dead, Jim.
I am just telling you how I'd go about it.
I forgot about Terra's vote on Zipped, I'll have to go back and look at itOk reading more, people make a fair point that Terra seemed fine voting any 3 yesterday. This makes it a bit less likely that Xam is scum. Unless Terra was just that smooth.
Terra's random vote on Zipped looks odd. But that alone isn't really enough for me to think Zipped is scum.
There's a lot of uncertainty here.
I know Splinter tried to force discussion away from this topic, but I do want to add my 2 cents. I find a Baker role as described by Makai just incredibly unlikely. Or was Werewolf intended to be a Bastard Role testing ground?
when I'm not playing cod
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
Christing hell you all post a lot
On bakery: There's no way Palmer would put that role in this game. That role would be totally insane for a 29 person game, especially since we have 2 killing roles. I mean come on, really?
What I find weird is how Makai's just gone "NO LOOK HE'S BEING STUPID" and just straight up posted the description of the baker. If that role is in the game, how the fuck does that help town? I'm pretty sure most people would be like me and Cabot and just assume it was meaningless fluff.
On bakery: There's no way Palmer would put that role in this game. That role would be totally insane for a 29 person game, especially since we have 2 killing roles. I mean come on, really?
What I find weird is how Makai's just gone "NO LOOK HE'S BEING STUPID" and just straight up posted the description of the baker. If that role is in the game, how the fuck does that help town? I'm pretty sure most people would be like me and Cabot and just assume it was meaningless fluff.
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
Also, on doctor: I guess it's a slight positive that no-one knows if we have a doctor or not yet. I mean if the death had been blocked on the first night, the wolves would immediately start looking for any hints towards who the doctor is. As it stands, they still have no idea if a doctor even exists which isn't going to help them.
On the other hand, we have a dead townie. So you know, that probably outweighs the slight bit of unknown info they have.
On the other hand, we have a dead townie. So you know, that probably outweighs the slight bit of unknown info they have.
I think the "there must be 2 killing roles" people should consider that in a 29 player game, wolves probably get at least 2 kills every night. This game could take months otherwise.
And then they killed their own member?
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
I think the "there must be 2 killing roles" people should consider that in a 29 player game, wolves probably get at least 2 kills every night. This game could take months otherwise.
But they killed a wolf
...
Christing hell you all post a lot
On bakery: There's no way Palmer would put that role in this game. That role would be totally insane for a 29 person game, especially since we have 2 killing roles. I mean come on, really?
What I find weird is how Makai's just gone "NO LOOK HE'S BEING STUPID" and just straight up posted the description of the baker. If that role is in the game, how the fuck does that help town? I'm pretty sure most people would be like me and Cabot and just assume it was meaningless fluff.
Some serious nodding occurred during the reading of this post. The wiki definition of a baker is far too bastard for this game. I'm worried it'll be used as the big bad bogeyman for a few phases.
I think the "there must be 2 killing roles" people should consider that in a 29 player game, wolves probably get at least 2 kills every night. This game could take months otherwise.
This makes no sense. Are you saying scum killed one of their own...?
That's where it seemed to be headed. Everyone was saying how anti-Town he was. Then Flux voted for him and demanded Splinter explain why he left Dave alone. Town is ridiculously fickle at the end of Day 1 and he seemed vulnerable to a last-minute dogpile. I don't even think he could have saved himself by roleclaiming Baker.No, it put you and him on everyone's radar. After that everyone commented on your light claim. There was some light heat on him yeah, but nobody was seriously discussing on him becoming the major lynch target of day 1.
I think the "there must be 2 killing roles" people should consider that in a 29 player game, wolves probably get at least 2 kills every night. This game could take months otherwise.
Hey, do me a favor: can you tell me what our goal in this game is as Town?
I think the "there must be 2 killing roles" people should consider that in a 29 player game, wolves probably get at least 2 kills every night. This game could take months otherwise.
What, so you think wolves killed their own tonight? Lol.
Remember or win condition is to eliminate all threats to the Village. I'm leaning towards the second kill being an SK. What other threats are there to Village, apart from the wolves? Anyway, even if it is an SK, it makes no difference to our current scum hunt effort. Just something to keep in mind i guess.
Oh my bad, I should learn to read the day post. I was wondering why everyone was saying there were 2 killing roles.
You will read my fluff and you will like it.
And then they killed their own member?
He's implying we could indeed have a doctor that successfully protected someone else. The wolf death is likely a town vig.
CrimsonFist
Member
Some serious nodding occurred during the reading of this post. The wiki definition of a baker is far too bastard for this game. I'm worried it'll be used as the big bad bogeyman for a few phases.
It doesn't strike me as something we need to worry too much about anyway. The only consequence I can see is that we might want to be careful about lynching Dave, but he's hardly been topping scum read lists so far anyway.