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Werewolf |OT| Was it all just a Dream?

C

CornBurrito

Member
Cornburrito Wild Hypothesis:

Dave and Makai are both working together. Either as neutral survivor things, or scum. Dave makes baker fluff posts, Makai throws the baker theory out there. Dave becomes "immune" to lynch for a long time. Maybe even draws protection from town protective roles. Maybe Dave is some special "anyone who visits me dies" role.

Reasons why this makes sense: Dave's fluff is just really odd. Makai's defense of Dave when Dave had only a single vote was odd.

Baker soft claim makes Dave practically unlynchable. Because if he is telling the truth we'd literally lose confirming it. This also sows a lot of confusion.

Reasons why this makes no sense: Seems an unnecessary gambit for mafia to take. It makes Dave borderline unlynchable sure, but how long could this go on for?

Actually the more I think, the more this seems like a viable scum play to be honest.

Dave not being killed during the nights that follow wouldn't be too unusual even if the Baker thing were true. Because mafia can safely ignore Dave. If they can ignore him, town might lynch him. If they go after him, they risk losing a kill to Doctor. And Dave would also likely be watched by town lookout roles to scout out Doctor/Killers.


I'm thinking this may be a scum gambit.

VOTE: Makai
 
C

CornBurrito

Member
CzarTim said:
lol if a sk really killed a scummy player on night one
Click to expand...

Rats Off To Ya said:
When I looked at the end of the day, the name that stood out to me more than anyone else was Terra. I'm not a Vig, but if I was he would have been my target.
Click to expand...

Well I didn't feel it was super obvious.

If I were SK I'd have targeted a player I didn't think scum would target. Terra didn't scream PR to me, meaning he'd have been a viable target for me if I was SK.

If I were vig, I wouldn't have used my power yet. I didn't have solid reads on people yet.
 
T

Timeaisis

Member
Who was the first person to look up the "Baker" role on mafiascum or wikipedia or whatever. Honestly, I've never heard of the role before someone quoted it, and I've been playing mafia for a while.
 
B

batsnacks

Member
I am voting Starsketch for the Darryl vote/unvote. I will quote the exchange in case people who may be interested missed it or forgot:

She votes Darryl; "If super aggressive is how he normally plays, why stop now?":
StarSketch said:
Vote: Darryl

If super aggressive is how he normally plays, why stop now?
Click to expand...

All three original Darryl voters are alarmed:
CzarTim said:
At the same time I find Star's vote on Darryl to be super awful.
Click to expand...
CornBurrito said:
<CzarTim's post>

I have to agree.
Click to expand...
batsnacks said:
I am curious about what StarSketch thinks about the reasons other people gave for voting Darryl.

StarSketch is the only one voting Darryl for playing less aggressive, right? Seems like it would have been more appropriate to vote earlier if that's the reason.
Click to expand...

Then:
StarSketch said:
Oh, right, my reasoning.

I'm thinking that maybe Darryl is trying to lie low, maybe?

I mean I guess there's more of a chance he's legit trying to stop being aggressive. I dunno.

unvote: Darryl
Click to expand...

Yes, Starsketch unvoted Darryl and voted xam (also for weak reasons imo), but I believe xam is very likely also town. Terrabyte's vote on xam makes it very likely that xam is town. Darryl made himself an easy lynch so if xam was a wolf, the optimal play is to vote ez-lynch Darryl.

Starsketch was the original Darryl bandwagoner. Corn, tim, and myself all went back and forth with Darryl and were explicit about our reasons for voting him. Starsketch appears to have just piled on our wagon because the opportunity was there. Here she says the reason she voted Darryl is because she felt pressured to do something:
StarSketch said:
I thought the passive-aggressive vote on me was a prod to do something. So I did something.
Click to expand...
But her Darryl vote was seems reasonless, minus wanting to have an appearance of doing something.
 
C

CornBurrito

Member
StarSketch said:
Someone want to explain the Burrito votes?
Click to expand...

I attempted to be last game's Darryl (ultra aggressive), but it actually didn't work out well so I've come off as incredibly scummy. Honestly there's enough to build a decent case around voting me out. Though I don't think I've been acting that different from how I did in Dangan.
 
Q

QuantumBro

Banned
Timeaisis said:
Who was the first person to look up the "Baker" role on mafiascum or wikipedia or whatever. Honestly, I've never heard of the role before someone quoted it, and I've been playing mafia for a while.
Click to expand...

I've come across it a few times in the sandbox area on Epic Mafia. But they have all sorts of crazy roles on there like crier, tree stump, clockmaker, etc.
 
S

StarSketch

Banned
batsnacks said:
I am voting Starsketch for the Darryl vote/unvote. I will quote the exchange in case people who may be interested missed it or forgot:

She votes Darryl; "If super aggressive is how he normally plays, why stop now?":


All three original Darryl voters are alarmed:




Then:


Yes, Starsketch unvoted Darryl and voted xam (also for weak reasons imo), but I believe xam is very likely also town. Terrabyte's vote on xam makes it very likely that xam is town. Darryl made himself an easy lynch so if xam was a wolf, the optimal play is to vote ez-lynch Darryl.

Starsketch was the original Darryl bandwagoner. Corn, tim, and myself all went back and forth with Darryl and were explicit about our reasons for voting him. Starsketch appears to have just piled on our wagon because the opportunity was there. Here she says the reason she voted Darryl is because she felt pressured to do something:

But her Darryl vote was seems reasonless, minus wanting to have an appearance of doing something.
Click to expand...

I've said multiple times that I was really busy during D1, and I didn't have time to check the thread all that often. Also, this is my second game, and I'm still adjusting somewhat.
I was really passive during most of Gafia, so I've been trying to contribute more both this game and the dream....but I guess it came across as just bullshit.
 
T

Timeaisis

Member
batsnacks said:
I am voting Starsketch for the Darryl vote/unvote. I will quote the exchange in case people who may be interested missed it or forgot:

She votes Darryl; "If super aggressive is how he normally plays, why stop now?":


All three original Darryl voters are alarmed:




Then:


Yes, Starsketch unvoted Darryl and voted xam (also for weak reasons imo), but I believe xam is very likely also town. Terrabyte's vote on xam makes it very likely that xam is town. Darryl made himself an easy lynch so if xam was a wolf, the optimal play is to vote ez-lynch Darryl.

Starsketch was the original Darryl bandwagoner. Corn, tim, and myself all went back and forth with Darryl and were explicit about our reasons for voting him. Starsketch appears to have just piled on our wagon because the opportunity was there. Here she says the reason she voted Darryl is because she felt pressured to do something:

But her Darryl vote was seems reasonless, minus wanting to have an appearance of doing something.
Click to expand...

Well, this is probably our best bet today.
 
S

Swamped

Banned
StarSketch said:
I've said multiple times that I was really busy during D1, and I didn't have time to check the thread all that often. Also, this is my second game, and I'm still adjusting somewhat.
I was really passive during most of Gafia, so I've been trying to contribute more both this game and the dream....but I guess it came across as just bullshit.
Click to expand...

UNVOTE: StarSketch

This isn't this best of defences, but i totally get being busy, especially during our D1. I also think that Star is contributing more today, with more of her own ideas even if i don't agree with them all. At the moment, I'm not seeing her as scum, but frustrated Village.

When i get home, I'll ask Star some questions so i can hopefully understand her thought process better.
 
B

Burbeting

Banned
Good that that the Baker mess was (mostly) resolved. I have to say I really doubt there is any scum-gambit going on there with Makai and Dave, I think Makai was just overreacting, but doing his best for the town. At best I can see there being the "protector - protected" scenario, but who knows.

I don't know if StarSketch is the best lynch target today, I'd like to look at GreatLord Tiger more, personally.
 
B

Burbeting

Banned
Septimus Prime said:
I may have missed it, but Drop deputized CrimsonFist on his own, without anyone else's input, right?
Click to expand...

Yes.

I'll actually want to make my first vote.

VOTE: GreatLord Tiger

Burbeting said:
15 [m] GreatLord Tiger – He posted some reads at first, which was cool, I guess. Other than that, he did not do that much. There is some serious irony about him and bandwagons. He was all angry at Xam for parroting Cabot and bandwagoning there (Which I agree with), yet he bandwagoned Ultron later for no other reason than “Let’s see where this leads.” And after that he doesn’t want to vote Darryl, because he doesn’t want to bandwagon. This is some seriously weird jumping between anti and pro bandwagoning, don’t you think? If Tiger is a scum, he might have wanted to evade Darryl bandwagon, so that he would get town points, once Darryl eventually flipped. So yeah, Tiger’s acting during day 1 was definitely weird… - LEANING SCUM?
Click to expand...

So GreatLord... what's with your voting patterns yesterday? First you voted Xam, when some people were already bandwagoning him, by accusing him from bandwagoning and parroting (Which I did agree with). But then you moved to Ultron, making as bandwagony vote as there can be, yet then you didn't want to vote Darryl, because you didn't wany to bandwagon?

Right now you look like a scum, who didn't want to vote a person you knew was town.
 
B

batsnacks

Member
CornBurrito said:
I'd like to see read lists from: batsnacks, StarSketch, Timeaisis.
Click to expand...

I don't think lists are that useful; they're probably the easiest way for wolves to appear to be contributing. I think the better approach is just to say who you think is a wolf and try to convince others you are right (e.g. starsketch post). But if you want:

top wolf: star

mb wolf: flux, burbeting, septimus, time (note, I remember posts from all these people. there will be wolves, possibly even more wolves, in the idunnolol category)

idunnolol: others

mb town: crimson, style, tim, ultron, corn, kingkitty, booboo, swamp, splinter

top town: xam

wut: dave, quantum

Order is irrelevant I just went down the player list in the op and stuck everyone somewhere. Criteria is generally:
  • mb wolf: means I remember that they posted but I don't remember what they posted or thought what they posted could be supporting a wolf agenda.
  • mb town: i remember what they posted and think what they posted could be supporting a town agenda.
 
B

batsnacks

Member
See look how awful my list is I hate it seconds after posting it. It's terrible and probably contradictory. I think it's much more meaningful to focus on primary wolf/village reads that are well reasoned cause that's what really matters.
 
S

Septimus Prime

Member
I think I agree about the lists. They're entertaining to read, but all the "maybe, I dunno," entries don't really help anyone. They probably actually hurt more than help, actually, since it floods us with unnecessary info (but no, I don't think it's a scumtell). I think a list of people you strongly suspect, with some reasoning, would be better.
 
B

Burbeting

Banned
batsnacks said:
See look how awful my list is I hate it seconds after posting it. It's terrible and probably contradictory. I think it's much more meaningful to focus on primary wolf/village reads that are well reasoned cause that's what really matters.
Click to expand...

Read lists can help. They force a player to think about each player individually, which can be beneficial especially in a game with as many players as this one has. It also gives players possibility to have conversations more, it encourages the others to maybe respond to the questions, that the reads lists launch at them. I do am interested in hearing why I'm in mb wolf :).
 
B

batsnacks

Member
Burbeting said:
Read lists can help. They force a player to think about each player individually, which can be beneficial especially in a game with as many players as this one has. It also gives players possibility to have conversations more, it encourages the others to maybe respond to the questions, that the reads lists launch at them. I do am interested in hearing why I'm in mb wolf :).
Click to expand...

Cause you posted a reads list, obviously. ;)

No but I'd really rather focus on my strong reads rather than bogging down the town with stuff I know is probably wrong. I currently have a top wolf and a top town and I would argue I have good reasons for both reads. Those are what I want to talk about.
 
S

Septimus Prime

Member
batsnacks said:
Cause you posted a reads list, obviously. ;)

No but I'd really rather focus on my strong reads rather than bogging down the town with stuff I know is probably wrong. I currently have a top wolf and a top town and I would argue I have good reasons for both reads. Those are what I want to talk about.
Click to expand...
Why is Xam top town for you? He leans more toward suspicious for me, but mostly because I think three sleepwalkers is unlikely, and he didn't really need to know the role PM to make his claim. Plus, now that we can see Terra's role PM, we can see that ultron did indeed reference the words in the sleepwalker part, at least.
 
B

Burbeting

Banned
batsnacks said:
Cause you posted a reads list, obviously. ;)

No but I'd really rather focus on my strong reads rather than bogging down the town with stuff I know is probably wrong. I currently have a top wolf and a top town and I would argue I have good reasons for both reads. Those are what I want to talk about.
Click to expand...

But read lists don'the necessarily mean that you need make a read about each and everyone, even telling us your top reads and writing arguments for it is making a reads list :). Making a fullread just means that the I dunno lol list will most likely get much much shorter, after looking at individual players.
 
B

batsnacks

Member
Septimus Prime said:
Why is Xam top town for you? He leans more toward suspicious for me, but mostly because I think three sleepwalkers is unlikely, and he didn't really need to know the role PM to make his claim. Plus, now that we can see Terra's role PM, we can see that ultron did indeed reference the words in the sleepwalker part, at least.
Click to expand...

Because if xam was a wolf terrabyte would have voted Darryl. Darryl made himself an easy lynch. I do not believe wolf-terrabyte voted wolf-xam over ez-lynch-villager-Darryl.
 
S

Septimus Prime

Member
batsnacks said:
Because if xam was a wolf terrabyte would have voted Darryl. Darryl made himself an easy lynch. I do not believe wolf-terrabyte voted wolf-xam over ez-lynch-villager-Darryl.
Click to expand...
At the same time, though, if there is someone getting easily lynched, why wouldn't you throw away your vote on one of your own, when you know there's no risk of him getting lynched?
 
S

Style

Banned
Yeeaah, don't go telling me to post a read list, it will just be more parroting.

giphy.gif


I have been having a really hard time reading anyone this game. I still think we should look closer at who started the Darryl bandwagon and who jumped on it easily without arguments.
 
B

batsnacks

Member
Septimus Prime said:
At the same time, though, if there is someone getting easily lynched, why wouldn't you throw away your vote on one of your own, when you know there's no risk of him getting lynched?
Click to expand...

Yes but Darryl and xam were almost tied for most of the end of the day. I'm not saying my read on xam is infallible but if I were a wolf, xam were a wolf, Darryl is a villager, and xam and Darryl were close in votes, I would have 100% just posted something to the effect of:

"Policy lynching Darryl because he self voted."

It's easy and a seemingly reasonable thing to do. Darryl even said the self vote was a play he is capable of making as a wolf. I don't see a reason for wolves not to capitalize on that if xam were mafia and the votes were close.
 
S

Septimus Prime

Member
batsnacks said:
Yes but Darryl and xam were almost tied for most of the end of the day. I'm not saying my read on xam is infallible but if I were a wolf, xam were a wolf, Darryl is a villager, and xam and Darryl were close in votes, I would have 100% just posted something to the effect of:

"Policy lynching Darryl because he self voted."

It's easy and a seemingly reasonable thing to do. Darryl even said the self vote was a play he is capable of making as a wolf. I don't see a reason for wolves not to capitalize on that if xam were mafia and the votes were close.
Click to expand...
Makes sense. I was not following the voting in real time and only got to it after it concluded, so I didn't pay as much attention to time stamps.

I'm not sure I have a strong read on anyone right now.
 
K

kingkitty

Member
Here are some other people

Cabot:
Seemed helpful Day 1. Poked Style for his posting behavior. Chased inactives (I did this to QuantumBro, although I gave my final vote on Style). To be fair, this is an easy tactic for scum to do, as long as they know their own members are not part of that inactive. Otherwise you might fall into awkward situations where people are like "hey why are you chasing this inactive, but not that one?". Was Terra considered inactive? I'm not sure.

If Style ends up being scum, I would have slightly more faith that Cabot isn't scum. This is because of the back and forth between Style and Cabot starting at post 803. If they're both scum, then that back and forth seems a little unnecessary. Unless scum bros thought Style was dead meat, and wanted to get in some minor jabs in order to gain townie trust. But there weren't that many votes on him, like maybe 5? And then you get the whole misunderstanding where Style mistakenly thought Cabot voted for him, and voted back in retaliation. And then Cabot pointed out that Style didn't change his vote despite acknowledging his mistake.

I get that scum know they have to jab each other a little bit so it doesn't look like collusion, but this seems like a peculiar, unnecessary play if they're both scum.

If Cabot ends up scum, I would also be slightly less suspicious of Style.

Ultron:
I still find it very weird that Ultron claimed sleepwalker right out of the gate. Originally I thought Xam might be scum who is latching onto Ultron's claim. But perhaps (as people have mentioned), Ultron is a neutral sleepwalker (win conditions? no idea). From a neutral's standpoint, it might (slightly) make more sense to claim out in the open to avoid any misunderstanding and night time death. Because while a townie sleepwalker might die during the night, he/she can still win. If a neutral dies, that's it, he/she lost.

So then Ultron (or Xam...but I'm leaning more on Ultron) might be neutral sleepwalker. Xam might be townie sleepwalker (who made a rookie mistake believing it was safe to claim in the open when he saw Ultron's). Terra is scum sleepwalker. Seems like a nice balance to it.


I'm writing up another post for a few more people, but is there anyone in particular that y'all want my thoughts on?
 
T

Timeaisis

Member
I'm not gonna post a read list because I think they are pointless but I will say I'm suspect of the following:

StarSketch -see above posts
LollipopDave - for being confusing with the baker crap
Style - Hunch, nothing solid
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Ooh, a list contest. I think it can be more beneficial to try to determine who are the allies than who are the foes, but my scum reads:

1. Lollipop Dave: I was suspicious on Day 1 and I continue to be, mainly because of the fluff.

2. Makai: A lot of odd behavior revolving around Lollipop Dave. Potentially forcing Lollipop Dave into a corner by claiming that they are a highly useful role for Town. Not sure why they're so convinced of that fact.

3. Batsnacks: A whole lot of odd behavior, both in Day 1 and Day 2.

Style and Xam behave very strangely, but I think they might just be confused Town. StarSketch is on standby; I need to see her post more. I don't like how there seemed to be a desire to create an early bandwagon against StarSketch for Day 2.
 
S

Style

Banned
CornBurrito said:
Fine, no read lists. Instead pick 3 people you find suspicious and explain why. Pick 3 people you think are town and explain why.
Click to expand...

Okay this should be easier for me to do than a read list. First the suspicious people.

CrimsonFist: Conveniently replaced the sheriff and got the double vote ability. It seems weird that the wolves would target Drop if he get a town replacement anyway, but as other people mention this might be a setup.

Lollipopdave: He seems to have had fun doing role play in the first round, but he's been stepping it down now.

Makai: Either fellow scum with Dave or they have some sort of role, seems very odd he threw himself in front of Dave because of one vote.

Townies:
FluxWaveZ: I somehow still trust this man. Can't specifically tell why, but I just feel like his witch hunting is legit?

I can't actually pinpoint further townies as of now. ( ._.)
 
S

Style

Banned
I was going to make some points based on the voting results from day 1, but the page that lists them have been down for a while now. v_v
 
C

CzarTim

Member
That Mak play seems like classic Mak and not indicative of alignment. I find it nearly impossible to read him though.

I'm kind of ignoring Dave atm.
 
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