the very first one? Fake Plastic Trees, also a Radiohead song.
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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
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the very first one? Fake Plastic Trees, also a Radiohead song.
Dr_Boris_Goltz
Banned
Oh no, I knew that one for sure. It's the one when they're walking Maeve through the different floors.
Edit: Is the movie canon?
would have figured the odd disappearance of William and Lawrence on the train with Dolores as "somethings off"
Motion Picture Soundtrack?, or was there another one in there I missed.
Love the secondary theme that's been popping up, was played at the end of this one.
Feeling like something is definitely canon or partially canon from the movie.
Motion Picture Soundtrack?, or was there another one in there I missed.
Love the secondary theme that's been popping up, was played at the end of this one.
Feeling like something is definitely canon or partially canon from the movie.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
So how does everyone feel about William=MiB now? Still think the logos are just a continuity error? Still think that first generation hosts would be stiff like Old Bill? Still think Logan is the Delos representative Ford mentioned?
Still not convinced
It's an issue of motivation.
Being a fan of what it means and accepting that there is a strong possibility it is indeed the story they are telling are two different things!
Biggest-Geek-Ever
Member
But who was phone, duckroll?
Never claimed otherwise, I'm saying the multiple timelines theory is true and I don't like it because of Dolores. I'd think it was pretty cool if it wasn't for her character development being compromised.
Dr_Boris_Goltz
Banned
Ah, I'm so glad it was actually Radiohead.
Nolan. They used them a few times on Person of Interest, and him and the other main producer Greg Plageman, had major imput on licensed music in that show.
Current logo is present in the loadout room shown in the promo video.
Also saw on Reddit someone mention that the prostitues outside the Mariposa in the promo video match the ones outside when Logan and William enter. During the pilot we only get to see Maeve and Clementine hanging outside.
Also saw on Reddit someone mention that the prostitues outside the Mariposa in the promo video match the ones outside when Logan and William enter. During the pilot we only get to see Maeve and Clementine hanging outside.
So, Missing Prostitute used on stock film footage for the commercial, but there with William and Logan?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Also, when Maeve walks past the new logo in the corridor, you can see that the complete logo says:
\ W /
Westworld
A Delos Destination™
Could be a good indicator that the logo changed after Delos bought them out.
Keep in mind a lot of the footage in the commercial was from the past. Maeve herself is there in her "old build" version.
\ W /
Westworld
A Delos Destination™
Could be a good indicator that the logo changed after Delos bought them out.
Keep in mind a lot of the footage in the commercial was from the past. Maeve herself is there in her "old build" version.
Something about the big her scenes definitely was off. Just didn't explain enough to the audience why all this is happening
- why the butcher thought he could parade a host around without anyone stopping him. You'd think since hosts essentially look human there would be safeguards against dressing hem up and taking them anywhere
- why they think a smarter than human host is a good idea. Come on man you are making a human.
- why are there no good alternatives for the butchers. Why are they playing along with this host for so long?
- why butchers are even able to modify AI like that. In software development all changes are fucking logged and there is no way to slide anything by
I mean all this kind of has answers if you try to explain it (hosts get moved via walking all the time for easy transportation, since she's waking up and remembering everything sleep mode is not an option, they are mildly curious on what a level 20 host would be like, changes to her AI were "local" but normally would not survive a reset which is why people can modify her, etc). But I wish the episode took a little more time explaining
- why the butcher thought he could parade a host around without anyone stopping him. You'd think since hosts essentially look human there would be safeguards against dressing hem up and taking them anywhere
- why they think a smarter than human host is a good idea. Come on man you are making a human.
- why are there no good alternatives for the butchers. Why are they playing along with this host for so long?
- why butchers are even able to modify AI like that. In software development all changes are fucking logged and there is no way to slide anything by
I mean all this kind of has answers if you try to explain it (hosts get moved via walking all the time for easy transportation, since she's waking up and remembering everything sleep mode is not an option, they are mildly curious on what a level 20 host would be like, changes to her AI were "local" but normally would not survive a reset which is why people can modify her, etc). But I wish the episode took a little more time explaining
Which puts the thought into my mind, where the Asian Butcher implies she's only been running the brothel for a year or so, not the 10 years she believes. Would she have been rotated back around to the brothel after 20+ years, or is the commercial from a more recent time.
I figure since some of the floors had hosts being trained, the visual of one walking around with an employee might not be considered strange, or strange enough to be questioned about.
I figure the white butcher had found a way into programming the hosts, to coincide with their "necrosexual ring." One that doesn't get flagged.
Basically, shitloads of these employees are lazy and are on the path to doom via a very, very Hot Terminator.
Butchers are like the dumbass cell guards patrolling the dungeon. It's pretty heavily implied that they're the low man on the totem pole and likely envy those above them, but aren't generally smart or talented enough to get a better job. But losing their jobs clearly isn't in the plan, either, because they know they can't afford it.
The one guy is clearly very timid and easy to manipulate, while Maeve used the other guy's side business of letting dudes fuck the "dead" host bodies for money against him (i.e I'll kindly not kill your ass for letting people bang my friends as long as you stay quiet and play along).
They may work at Westworld, but these guys are clearly doofuses and their position definitely reflects that. I mean, they're called "butchers," not "reconstructive technicians" or something. Nobody respects them, they're evidently not paid much, and they're easy to manipulate.
I'd also bargain that if they were hosts, their general intelligence would probably be, maybe, 9 or 10. If Maeve is a 14, she's equivalent to a normal human who could take advantage of them already. And, as stated, she's been programmed to be highly perceptive in regards to what her clients want or need, which is being put to use here.
HighResTomato
Member
The fact that these butchers have unrestricted access to her parameters is laughable.
Didn't one of the butchers freak out when he discovered the other one had the device in his possession a few episodes back.
Why has QA not noticed such a powerful device was missing and how can this guy use it without any restriction? Come on man, you leave your iPhone on idle for 30 seconds and it demands a log in but this high tech equipment that seemingly is only used by high level employees requires no login or isn't missed by anyone?
Also this "dumb" butcher went from not being able to fix a bird host to being able to fucking rewrite a top tier host?
Buba Big Guns
Banned
Yea this was the worst episode so far for that reason alone.
I just finished watching London has Fallen, and that was one of the dumbest, most unrealistic movies I've ever seen. These butchers seem like they come straight out of that movie. Terrible writing.
BarringGaffner
Member
I liked the scene where Maeve watched the computer display what she was about to say and failing to improvise. It's interesting that we have basically run those experiments with humans and know that the human brain makes decisions before we become aware of them.
This. And its pulling me out of the moment when I watch the show.
Them walking the host around the upper areas while she gawked at shit and no one notices anything was straight up immersion breaking for me. There's SHIT security in this entire facility to a comical level.
butcher plot was dumb
back half of Elsie plot was just cringeworthy in how cliche it was. I was hoping for some winks or something but they played it completely straight.
Bernard has to be a host. The way Ford acts when he talks about Bernard's child he gets the same sort of affect when he knows he's manipulating a host like Teddy. Makes me think his affair with Theresa might have been programmed in.
back half of Elsie plot was just cringeworthy in how cliche it was. I was hoping for some winks or something but they played it completely straight.
Bernard has to be a host. The way Ford acts when he talks about Bernard's child he gets the same sort of affect when he knows he's manipulating a host like Teddy. Makes me think his affair with Theresa might have been programmed in.
Shogmaster
Member
So how does everyone feel about William=MiB now? Still think the logos are just a continuity error? Still think that first generation hosts would be stiff like Old Bill? Still think Logan is the Delos representative Ford mentioned?
I've been fine with multiple timeline idea, even from the beginning. I just have big problems with William = MiB. Seems too easy and frankly, ham fisted. And as I have stated before, MiB's reason for seeking the puzzle, to experience true life threatening danger, would have been something that William would have experienced and not longing for at this point if he is still alive (I personally think William will end up dead before season 1 ends). The personality of the two characters simply does not fit. You would have a better argument with Logan being MiB and even that feels forced.
Let's just say, I fully expect another level of surprise for those who think William = MiB.
So how does everyone feel about William=MiB now? Still think the logos are just a continuity error? Still think that first generation hosts would be stiff like Old Bill? Still think Logan is the Delos representative Ford mentioned?
That more evidence again points to it being the same timeline? Host punching mib reinforces hosts are more violent further out from Sweetwater.
Talk of soldiers, etc. increases liklihood of same war narrative, etc.
Mib and teddy literally retracing their path through cemetery.
Photo of Ford and Arnold not Arnold but photo of Ford and his father.
Relays being used to control hosts with voices, Dolores hearing voices suddenly, while in scenes with William.
Lack of electricity and flooding in lower levels confirms finaces aren't great and Logan actively looking to buy out Delos makes sense, also Ford's earlier comment that board reps are already in the park, to the bewilderment of Meredith.
Also this entire "1st generation" host thing makes zero sense, as the woodcutter guy was a gen 1 host and we're supposed to believe Bernard and Elsie never noticed that? It was some big revelation to Bernard that gen 1 hosts were active (Ford's family). What? After continued contact with Dolores, he never noticed either?
The scenes with the techs and Maeve are laughably bad.
I'm close to quitting the show.
JesseEwiak
Member
Maybe I'm just giving the show credit, but I think the part where the lower floors of their HQ is flooding might be a sign that things aren't doing so great overall when it comes running the park.
As for the stolen equipment thing, it looks amazingly high tech to us. But, that could be the equivalent to a simple laptop in 20XX wherever they are and I've been at or known people working at companies where laptops have gone into the mist for months. After all, non-Asian tech still had to backdoor his way in the 1st place to set up his NecroHost deal.
Also, as pointed out upthread, Maeve is manipulating the two techs. Plus, Asian tech has already shown some affinity for the Hosts (repairing the bird and all). After all, there's a reason why she 'woke up' in front of him and not Pimp Daddy Tech.
As for Elsie, of course she's going off and doing this by herself. She mentioned to Bernard about how the Board would reward her and in earlier episodes talked about how she's the only one without an agenda. It's not like she's going to ask Stubbs to come with her.
As for the stolen equipment thing, it looks amazingly high tech to us. But, that could be the equivalent to a simple laptop in 20XX wherever they are and I've been at or known people working at companies where laptops have gone into the mist for months. After all, non-Asian tech still had to backdoor his way in the 1st place to set up his NecroHost deal.
Also, as pointed out upthread, Maeve is manipulating the two techs. Plus, Asian tech has already shown some affinity for the Hosts (repairing the bird and all). After all, there's a reason why she 'woke up' in front of him and not Pimp Daddy Tech.
As for Elsie, of course she's going off and doing this by herself. She mentioned to Bernard about how the Board would reward her and in earlier episodes talked about how she's the only one without an agenda. It's not like she's going to ask Stubbs to come with her.
Yeah he didnt die in the park he just uploaded himself to the matrix
So I was checking out the companion site.... the video trailer they used in the scene with maev is on the site aaaaaand..... I'm pretty sure there's Dolores in her gunslinger outfit on a rock outcropping.
I don't know if they showed that scene in the show though. I don't remember.
I don't know if they showed that scene in the show though. I don't remember.
Discotheque
Banned
they gotta chill with the radiohead music, it was cool on the piano but then hearing another one during that Maeve scene got a bit distracting for me. Kinda wish they just asked Ramin to compose something original for that moment, because otherwise that was a great scene.
also anybody notice that whenever Narcisse (sorry, dunno Jeffrey Wright's name in here) questions Ford about his practices that Ford always mentions the dude's dead son? God damn, not only is Hopkins extremely emotionally manipulative towards him but also it makes me wonder if Narcisse is a host as well. Wright's great in here btw, I'm glad he has a substantial role in this show.
some of these A-tier actors in here really make it a glaring contrast on how dogshit the other cast is. The techs and the lady investigating into the transmissions just seem so amateur in this show.
also anybody notice that whenever Narcisse (sorry, dunno Jeffrey Wright's name in here) questions Ford about his practices that Ford always mentions the dude's dead son? God damn, not only is Hopkins extremely emotionally manipulative towards him but also it makes me wonder if Narcisse is a host as well. Wright's great in here btw, I'm glad he has a substantial role in this show.
some of these A-tier actors in here really make it a glaring contrast on how dogshit the other cast is. The techs and the lady investigating into the transmissions just seem so amateur in this show.
I'm enjoying the show okay, but I'm surprised people are as willing as they are to give the show the benefit of the doubt. While technically crafted well, there hasn't been anything to fill me with a lot of confidence that the narrative is going to pay off.
A lot of the reason people seem to be okay with the wonky storytelling is faith that whatever reveals the showrunners have in store will make the sometimes rocky journey worthwhile.
But, again, there hasn't been anything from a storytelling perspective to make me believe this is the case.
Basically, this show is fucked if whatever twists they have planned in the final 4 (!) episodes aren't revelatory. And it's really going to suck if (well, when) the season ends without answering them at all because the showrunners have a grand 5 year plan. That kind of narrative sucks when your show isn't even guaranteed a season 2.
A lot of the reason people seem to be okay with the wonky storytelling is faith that whatever reveals the showrunners have in store will make the sometimes rocky journey worthwhile.
But, again, there hasn't been anything from a storytelling perspective to make me believe this is the case.
Basically, this show is fucked if whatever twists they have planned in the final 4 (!) episodes aren't revelatory. And it's really going to suck if (well, when) the season ends without answering them at all because the showrunners have a grand 5 year plan. That kind of narrative sucks when your show isn't even guaranteed a season 2.
But if we accept that they are two distinct time periods being shown, that certainly someone from the past is going to be revealed as MiB. There's a reason they're keeping his identity "secret" from the audience and not mentioning his name even though people know him. It's the most obvious narrative trick in the book. So it's either William or Logan, honestly, given that William has more emphasis in the plot and one of the themes in the show is people discovering "who they really are", a douchebag becoming a douchebag isn't really a character arc. A person who appears to be kind-hearted and buying into the illusion of Westworld turning into a cynical gamer out to solve it is.
Either way, it's time to admit that you were wrong about the first generation hosts and wrong about the Delos board executive.
Good, good.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I love the show and I'm very on board... but the one thing that takes me out of the show is the behaviour of many of the Delos employees. The cocky British story designer, the spazzing bearded technician... even the odd timidity of the good guy Asian technician (he feels like a child character).
I don't really "believe" these characters, and I think they're below the calibre of the rest of the show. They feel like unrealistic cartoon characters from a bad police procedural. Actually, they remind me of the police crew in Dexter. Weird, childish angst and cocky posing from people in their 30s and 40s. I don't really buy them.
Maybe they're going for some intentional "the park hosts have the depth of real humans, while the Delos crew are characatures of humanity" irony. But it might just be CSI level TV scripting poking its way into what is an otherwise smart and movie-like experience.
I don't really "believe" these characters, and I think they're below the calibre of the rest of the show. They feel like unrealistic cartoon characters from a bad police procedural. Actually, they remind me of the police crew in Dexter. Weird, childish angst and cocky posing from people in their 30s and 40s. I don't really buy them.
Maybe they're going for some intentional "the park hosts have the depth of real humans, while the Delos crew are characatures of humanity" irony. But it might just be CSI level TV scripting poking its way into what is an otherwise smart and movie-like experience.
Shogmaster
Member
She can wake up at will now. I don't think voice commands work on her anymore. Also, her attributes were changed by someone with much higher clearance. Whomever it was probably locked her attributes to not go any lower by lowly techs.
As for the tech's motivation to help her, the Asian guy is fascinated/charmed by her. The white guy is threatened by her of exposing his "side business".
Shogmaster
Member
But if we accept that they are two distinct time periods being shown, that certainly someone from the past is going to be revealed as MiB. There's a reason they're keeping his identity "secret" from the audience and not mentioning his name even though people know him. It's the most obvious narrative trick in the book. So it's either William or Logan, honestly, given that William has more emphasis in the plot and one of the themes in the show is people discovering "who they really are", a douchebag becoming a douchebag isn't really a character arc. A person who appears to be kind-hearted and buying into the illusion of Westworld turning into a cynical gamer out to solve it is.
Either way, it's time to admit that you were wrong about the first generation hosts and wrong about the Delos board executive.
I'll freely admit about them being board reps. But as with the real board rep, I'll bet that they simply haven't shown MiB in the old timeline yet.
As for 1st gen hosts, the show spells out that Dolores is one. But I don't think she is the robot type anymore. She's been "repaired so many times she's practically brand new". She's probably been updated with more cost effective flesh, as with Maeve, who is another 1st gen host.
Sure, MiB -could- be a character they haven't revealed yet. Just like how Arnold mysteriously has no actor cast for him! Who knows!
Regarding the first gen hosts, you're right about Dolores, but I was talking about Ford's fake robot family. As you can see, even in their robotic form with Terminator parts, they look and act totally human. In fact, the boy Ford has been in a couple of episodes before this and no one suspected he was any different from the other organic hosts. Definitely way more advanced than Old Bill.
Shogmaster
Member
Seems like the difference between old Bill and the family is upkeep. I guess Ford shows old Bill no love...
One thing I notice that the show writers and directors like to do is lots of misdirection in form of cuts. Teresa talks about reps and they cut immediately to William and Logan for instance. Cheeky bastards...
Seems like the difference between old Bill and the family is upkeep. I guess Ford shows old Bill no love...
Or maybe Old Bill was built by Ford, and the family was built by Arnold. I guess now we know who was the real brains in that partnership!!!
Shogmaster
Member
OMG Ford so jealous he killed Arnold! Ah fuck... I meant that as a joke but now I don't know...
shira
Member
My only possible explanation. The Westworld workers are all just emotions in Arnold's head
They should've at least given Maeve a point or two into syphilis-having. Make the park a bit more realistic.
He's a host with intelligence turned down to 3 and gullibility turned up to 21.
He's a host with intelligence turned down to 3 and gullibility turned up to 21.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
im just watching it now
i hope the chinese isn't the 'bad guys'
will be back later with other impressions
i hope the chinese isn't the 'bad guys'
will be back later with other impressions
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
ok finished episode
not feeling this episode. the two IT butcher-level grunts being able to do that kind of stuff wasn't particularly credible.
and no dolores, boooo
not feeling this episode. the two IT butcher-level grunts being able to do that kind of stuff wasn't particularly credible.
and no dolores, boooo