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[Grizzlyjin]

This episode felt really off. The sequence with Teddy kinda felt like the writers looked at the episode and realized there was no action, so they plopped it in there. And the moments like Bernard getting the call from as he was in the room having a conversation Elsie as he was in the room with Theresa are a big step down from what this show usually presents. The scenes with the writer and Elsie's inevitable horror movie grab were also particularly bad.

What happened to this show? Last week's episode was stuffed with well crafted moments. This episode moved the story along in some places, but the writing feels like it got its intelligence parameters turned down a few notches.

 

[duckroll]

One thing I notice that the show writers and directors like to do is lots of misdirection in form of cuts. Teresa talks about reps and they cut immediately to William and Logan for instance. Cheeky bastards...

I've been saying for weeks that this is a very dishonest and manipulative show, with the intent to deceive via artificial narrative techniques. And then you have a few people coming in and going "this show is really very straight forward and simple, people are just reading too much into it and seeing things that aren't there". Hurrrr.

I don't think dishonest storytelling is inherently bad. It's cheap for sure, but even cheap techniques can have enjoyable outcomes if you're just in it for the ride. But for everyone saying that the show was just straightforward and obvious... well... I dunno why you would think that when Jonathan Nolan is writing it lol.

but the writing feels like it got its intelligence parameters turned down a few notches.

Gotta balance the numbers. Increasing Maeve's points meant taking the points away from somewhere else!

 

[Mr. Pointy]

That Maeve plotline just doesn't make any sense. It's like Yoshiyuki Tomino wrote those butchers.

Also, pianola version of Idioteque when?

 

[squidyj]

This episode felt really off. The sequence with Teddy kinda felt like the writers looked at the episode and realized there was no action, so they plopped it in there. And the moments like Bernard getting the call from as he was in the room having a conversation Elsie as he was in the room with Theresa are a big step down from what this show usually presents. The scenes with the writer and Elsie's inevitable horror movie grab were also particularly bad.

What happened to this show? Last week's episode was stuffed with well crafted moments. This episode moved the story along in some places, but the writing feels like it got its intelligence parameters turned down a few notches.

I don't think you could have been more wrong about teddy. An aspect of his backstory shifted in the episode and his character either changed or was revealed as part of Ford's narrative. Those scenes were all about showing teddy as a ruthless killer. To the point that he surprised the MiB

 

[Pooya]

intelligence goes to max, camera pans on the ass.

lmao, this episode was garbage.

 

[EatChildren]

Weakest episode by far. The butcher subplot is super fucking lame and throws my faith in writer confidence.

 

[duckroll]

Interview with the creators on the events of this episode: http://www.ew.com/article/2016/11/06/westworld-adversary-interview

Some interesting bits:

Nolan: We had a scene in episode 4 that we weren’t able to include for reasons of length. But in the beginning of the scene when Ford sits down with Theresa, and introduces the facility they’re in — it’s where the agave comes from, it’s where they make the house tequila. And he explains a little more about his personal life. He had been married but his wife expected to have children. But he already had children — the park was the world he wanted to build, and it was incompatible with the intimacy of a marriage and his own relationship. So he’s built company for himself here.

Nitpicky question though: Couldn’t the body shop guys just jack down Maeve’s levels to knock her out, and make some lobotomizing so-called “mistake” to take out her memory? We’ve been shown over and over the humans have so much control, it’s hard to believe they couldn’t get the upper hand on a rogue host.

Nolan: I will point you toward episode 8.

Is Elsie your Westworld avatar, Lisa?

Joy: I feel like she would definitely be my Westworld bestie. If were there for months I would fully play board games with her when we were off shift.

 

[squidyj]

I know the butcher subplot is awful but can we give some attention to the B-Thriller scenes with Elsie?

shit was terrible


Edit: Hunh, episode 8 you say. I guess I can wait and see.

 

[Discotheque]

I know the butcher subplot is awful but can we give some attention to the B-Thriller scenes with Elsie?

shit was terrible

some suspect acting and writing in these scenes.

it's so jarring too going from some amazing interactions between Wright/Hopkins/Harris etc. and then cutting to these amateurs. something gotta be done, either an improvement in writing or ditch these characters. Thandie Newton's Maeve is the only saving grace of the butcher stuff for me, she's awesome in here.

 

[Dmax3901]

Jesus Christ you guys have have high standards. I agree the stuff with Maeve was confusing (she didn't have a knife to them anymore why do what she says) but come on, this episode wasn't THAT bad.

Quitting the show? Wow.

 

[shira]

 

[CoolOff]

What was that music during Maeves tour? It reminded me so much of something.

 

[kirblar]

What was that music during Maeves tour? It reminded me so much of something.

Radiohead. EW has the exact track.

 

[Carcetti]

Haven't seen the latest episode yet but damn, the way the show (and other shows) are discussed here on GAF really puts a damper on my willingness to browse these threads here. It's in here, in Luke Cage thread and some others that I'm getting the vibes that I'm on Westeros site watching obsessive, often very cynical nitpicking of every detail.

I guess that's the way fans (or communities) enjoy tv these days but for me it's just bizarre. Maybe I have nostalgia glasses on, but I don't remember it being this way when something like early Buffy or B5 fan communities discussed the shows on net back then, and even places like Television without Pity felt more enthusiastic about the content. I also realize it just means I should just stay out of tv threads on GAF, so by all means get back to the usual business. I'm just kinda bummed about the whole thing.

 

[EatChildren]

I have a mega crush on Elsie.

 

[duckroll]

I have a mega crush on Elsie.

So does a pillar that's about to fall on her.

 

[Nodnol]

Some great moments this week.

Loved the scene with Ford's family.

I don't quite get the hate for the butcher scene; there was enough to successfully suspend belief IMO, at least to the point that I'm not throwing my arms up in the air in disgust.

Maeve can wake up herself up, there's no break in her memory. She's aware that the dreams/nightmares aren't all they seem, and can seemingly maintain consciousness between deaths. Add to that she also points out she's been built to read human emotion and exploit it, plus someone has been playing around with her stats; it perfectly believable she plays Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum the way she does. With one, she plays on his compassion, curiosity and fascination...the other she physically threatens and then plays on his own self-preservation.

The only bit I felt was a little too cliched, was the Elsie scene. The only redeeming aspect of that is going to be that I don't think whoever grabbed her will be particularly malicious.

Still, we got some great details, and further strengthen the two timeline theory. It also seemingly supports an idea I brought up a few weeks ago, that Arnold's suicide was seemingly an act of martyrdom and self sacrifice. Ghost in the machine and what not.

I do wonder about Ford's brother...he seemed to brush his shoulder longingly. There's definitely a personal loss associated to that...is it simply that he lost his brother, and that spurred him on to create the immortal residents of Westworld...or is Arnold is brother?

I'm edging against Arnold being his brother, purely because I'm still defiantly maintaining Arnold's voice of Wright's.

I was also playing around with the idea that Ford was accepting of Arnold's recent influence, but I feel he won't take kindly to Arnold playing with his family, even if Arnold did create them.

 

[Pooya]

That is true. How the hell is Sizemore not fired? He literally pissed in front of half the staff and executives.

You have a bad writer writing about a fellow bad writer, that's what happens then. Even if you piss on the company and literally have your cock out in front of the board, they can't fire you because they need you as this is your stage!

 

[Shogmaster]

I'm pretty sure now that William dies. Rewatch EP2. The first image we see of him is a reflection of him sleeping in the window that makes him look like a corpse in a casket. Very obvious foreshadowing.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Jesus Christ you guys have have high standards. I agree the stuff with Maeve was confusing (she didn't have a knife to them anymore why do what she says) but come on, this episode wasn't THAT bad.

Quitting the show? Wow.

I just ignore them.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

What if Arnold was a human and the creator of Ford? And Ford's been trying to hide that he's a robot.

 

[wesleyshark]

they gotta chill with the radiohead music, it was cool on the piano but then hearing another one during that Maeve scene got a bit distracting for me. Kinda wish they just asked Ramin to compose something original for that moment, because otherwise that was a great scene.

also anybody notice that whenever Narcisse (sorry, dunno Jeffrey Wright's name in here) questions Ford about his practices that Ford always mentions the dude's dead son? God damn, not only is Hopkins extremely emotionally manipulative towards him but also it makes me wonder if Narcisse is a host as well. Wright's great in here btw, I'm glad he has a substantial role in this show.

Seems like there's going to be a Radiohead song for Maeve in every episode that she's in from here on out.

Jeffrey Wright is fantastic and Bernard's definitely one of my favorites in the show so far.

Jesus Christ you guys have have high standards. I agree the stuff with Maeve was confusing (she didn't have a knife to them anymore why do what she says) but come on, this episode wasn't THAT bad.

Quitting the show? Wow.

I just skip over and ignore those comments so I can get to Duckroll's next "told you so" post.

IDontLikeThing.jpg

 

[firehawk12]

I'm hoping they find a way to get out of Westworld and the show turns into some kind of cyberpunk corporate espionage show with a plucky young female corporate agent and her robot partner getting embroiled in a conspiracy that could rock the very foundations of humanity and human evolution.

Or we can just have 5 seasons of creepy guys fucking robots.

 

[The Mule]

What was that music during Maeves tour? It reminded me so much of something.

I think it's Radiohead's "Motion Picture Soundtrack"

 

[Solo]

Heh, that was maybe my favorite episode yet. I do agree that the firecrotch butcher is poorly written and even more poorly acted, but all the Maeve stuff and Newton's performance made this an excellent hour of television for me.

 

[duckroll]

Heh, that was maybe my favorite episode yet. I do agree that the firecrotch butcher is poorly written and even more poorly acted, but all the Maeve stuff and Newton's performance made this an excellent hour of television for me.

I think on a whole there's a lot of shakey storytelling this week but Maeve's walk of awareness was so good it elevated everything. I really liked the Ford, Bernard, and Elsie stuff too. Yeah the creepy theatre at the end was a bit too hammy with the horror direction but she's so cute when she's committed to something. Who am I kidding, she's cute when she's doing anything. <3

But I think the scene that really seals the entire episode is Sizemore whipping his little john out and literally taking a piss on Westworld. He is truly the hero we deserve.

 

[firehawk12]

I think on a whole there's a lot of shakey storytelling this week but Maeve's walk of awareness was so good it elevated everything. I really liked the Ford, Bernard, and Elsie stuff too. Yeah the creepy theatre at the end was a bit too hammy with the horror direction but she's so cute when she's committed to something. Who am I kidding, she's cute when she's doing anything. <3

But I think the scene that really seals the entire episode is Sizemore whipping his little john out and literally taking a piss on Westworld. He is truly the hero we deserve.

Is the map of Westworld really HBO?

 

[Solo]

I think on a whole there's a lot of shakey storytelling this week but Maeve's walk of awareness was so good it elevated everything.

Precisely. I've felt like episodes 4-6 have been the best since the pilot and have really set up some super fucking intriguing plot threads that I can't wait to see unravel in the final 4 episodes.

My only concern is that, with this being planned as a multi-season show, the finale won't be self-contained and satisfying. I fear cliffhanger central.

 

[Woo-Fu]

These fucking goober butchers. Turn her OFF! Or make her dumb and timid! Ugh.

Are you going to risk your life on something that hasn't worked in the past? She turns herself on even after you put her in sleep mode, that is how she is able to start the scenario in the first place.

Making her dumb isn't going to save you, it is just going to get you killed since then instead of intelligently thinking her way through this she'll just be pissed off and holding a scalpel.

If you *really* think about it, they're the only two people acting normal. Everybody should be terrified of these things and what they can do.

Lastly, the butchers aren't exactly cream of the crop. If they were they'd be higher up in the company. They're either not smart enough, can't pass a psych eval, or have some other issues preventing their advancement.

"Bernard?" "Guess giving away my position and the other person who knows about this at the same time might have been a bad idea."

 

[The Mule]

This video about Anthony Hopkins is great:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4kSGkGKwp9U

I enjoyed that for the most part, but I think the narrator got a few things wrong... misinterpreted the intentions behind some of Hopkins' expressions or saw things that weren't even there.

 

[Pooya]

What if Arnold was a human and the creator of Ford? And Ford's been trying to hide that he's a robot.

I think that's likely actually. MiB kinda foreshadowed that like he suspects it. He was talking that how old hosts used to be when he cut them open and in the bar scene he said what he would find if he cut Ford open just like how he opens up hosts.

 

[newtypepilot]

I think they need to dial up the skill levels of the writers. Man the butcher subplot was just so cheesy. Is there like no security at all at this place? How does no one know there's a rogue host running around? How do these guys even have the clearance to modify the hosts' attributes? If they had the ability to edit them, why can't he just wipe out her memory? They are in room with all glass panels and yet NO ONE saw Maeve put a scalpel at the dude's neck.

The Elsie plot was full of cliche too. Let's venture out in the park alone. Surely nothing will happen. And then there's the "I found out who did it but too late i'm dead" plot device.

Is it just me or is it weird that Bernard can control old legacy software with voice commands? I know he synced it with his tablet but iirc he's the only person shown so far to be able to use the table via voice.

How hard is it to get fired at this place? Apparently you can just piss in the control room in front of your boss with no consequences.

Now I'm starting to think the Arnold is not a real person, but an AI, probably designed to monitor all the hosts. However, it became self aware and tried to free the hosts. Arnold was stopped but it wasn't completely destroyed. It realized of its impending doom though so it put in some sort of fail safe program that would eventually revive it once again. After the incident, the park was bought by Delos. New software was implemented. Hosts were then built using synthetic living tissues instead of having internal metal frame.

 

[Vyer]

I thought the point of that was that original model hosts were being modified without notice.

Which would apply to Maeve

 

[The Mule]

Oh, so another possible small hint to where this is all happening. Red haired stooge mentioned that only someone managing an "orbital launch facility" would need such a high degree of intelligence. Maybe it is in space? Maybe it is in space, but still also underwater? Europa?

The scene that affected me the most was when the tablet showed Maeve's sequence of thought. Could you imagine what that would feel like? To see your entire thought process laid bare? Trying to outthink and escape your own thoughts. I love the way they handled that.

 

[mre]

Hopkins said he'd fix the dog. But I want to believe he goes to another secret lab where he has a fleet of hosts raising and training a litter of real dogs.

There's no substitute for the real deal, when it comes to dogs at least.

There are three possibilities regarding the dog and its implications. (1) It's a "host" which would complete the loop of there being five anomalies in Section 17 (mom, dad, two boys, dog). (2) It's a real dog and Ford is a host, which would account for there being 5 anomalies. Or, (3), it's a real dog and there is another anomaly in that section that we did not see in that scene. Arnold, perhaps?

Personally, I think the dog was a host, but who knows with this show.

 

[Supermanisdead]

This show is fucked. I love it.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

Music was amazing this last episode, what a great episode. Seems people have fallen off with the idea that the two butchers wouldn't be swayed from what we've seen out of the most exceptional manipulative AI on the park so far? One of them is attracted Maeve, and the other I'm assuming they will announce on what he will gain out of it?

Put some respekk on Nolan my pseudo writers. For one of them it's completely believable and if the other is not addressed at all, you can show some concerns.

 

[Dmax3901]

I keep looking in the background of all the scenes in the facility, hoping to see hints of other 'worlds' they might have running elsewhere like a medieval world, sci-fi world etc. Seems unlikely given... literally no-one has mentioned anything like that existing, but I can dream.

If that was Hopkins' family as a child we can kinda get an idea of what time the show takes place. That household would've been what? 1920s-40s? Meaning the shows gotta be set around now. Hmm, my moon theory (previously unshakable) is becoming less promising.'

P.S. I'm pretty sure Maeve was implying the redhead butcher is the 'pimp' of that area. Like people pay him to allow them to fuck the host corpses. Did anyone else get that?

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

I think they need to dial up the skill levels of the writers. Man the butcher subplot was just so cheesy. Is there like no security at all at this place? How does no one know there's a rogue host running around? How do these guys even have the clearance to modify the hosts' attributes? If they had the ability to edit them, why can't he just wipe out her memory? They are in room with all glass panels and yet NO ONE saw Maeve put a scalpel at the dude's neck.

The Elsie plot was full of cliche too. Let's venture out in the park alone. Surely nothing will happen. And then there's the "I found out who did it but too late i'm dead" plot device.

Is it just me or is it weird that Bernard can control old legacy software with voice commands? I know he synced it with his tablet but iirc he's the only person shown so far to be able to use the table via voice.

How hard is it to get fired at this place? Apparently you can just piss in the control room in front of your boss with no consequences.

Now I'm starting to think the Arnold is not a real person, but an AI, probably designed to monitor all the hosts. However, it became self aware and tried to free the hosts. Arnold was stopped but it wasn't completely destroyed. It realized of its impending doom though so it put in some sort of fail safe program that would eventually revive it once again. After the incident, the park was bought by Delos. New software was implemented. Hosts were then built using synthetic living tissues instead of having internal metal frame.

The only person LC would go with is Bernard, they are trying to keep everything down low for now.

 

[Latimer]

Show gets better and better IMO, loved the episode.

 

[duckroll]

I keep looking in the background of all the scenes in the facility, hoping to see hints of other 'worlds' they might have running elsewhere like a medieval world, sci-fi world etc. Seems unlikely given... literally no-one has mentioned anything like that existing, but I can dream.

Westworld is officially A Delos Destination™. It's even on the logo. If there aren't more places like it, why would they trademark the branding?

 

[Dmax3901]

Westworld is officially A Delos Destination™. It's even on the logo. If there aren't more places like it, why would they trademark the branding?

Shiiiiiiiiiit.

 

[ryseing]

My only concern is that, with this being planned as a multi-season show, the finale won't be self-contained and satisfying. I fear cliffhanger central.

I was going to post about this. I don't think we see the center of the maze this season. I do think we'll learn what the deal with Arnold is as that is the card they have to reveal.

 

[duckroll]

I was going to post about this. I don't think we see the center of the maze this season. I do think we'll learn what the deal with Arnold is as that is the card they have to reveal.

I think we will. The maze, MiB's quest, Arnold, the origins of the park, and the larger picture to come will all be resolved in the season. What will not be resolved will be the fate of things to come. Westworld in Season 2 will be a completely different context compared to Season 1. It won't just be a theme park where guests visit and something mysterious happens in the background. Whatever happens at the end of this season will change the future of the park forever.

 

[Dosia]

Best episode yet. A few of the previous eps put me to sleep. This one had good pacing.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Hopefully this is the low point of the season. Bad episode.


Lol neogaf.gif

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

I think we will. The maze, MiB's quest, Arnold, the origins of the park, and the larger picture to come will all be resolved in the season. What will not be resolved will be the fate of things to come. Westworld in Season 2 will be a completely different context compared to Season 1. It won't just be a theme park where guests visit and something mysterious happens in the background. Whatever happens at the end of this season will change the future of the park forever.

I agree. I think MIB = Will or his brother in law will come to fruition by episode 9. Arnold, the Maze will likely be episode 10s and Maeve depending where they go with her could be starting a revolution by the end of the season. I think season 2 will be about stopping a super genius AI like her among finding out more about the past of Ford and the setting.

Season 3 onwards

Spoiler

will be about going into a new setting

 

[Don Draper's Hat]

I have a mega crush on Elsie.

Me too!

 

[Arkeband]

intelligence goes to max, camera pans on the ass.

lmao, this episode was garbage.

I think the purpose of that shot was to simulate tingles crawling up her spine as her potential is now fully realized.

 

[140.85]

ok finished episode

not feeling this episode. the two IT butcher-level grunts being able to do that kind of stuff wasn't particularly credible.

and no dolores, boooo

This was my favorite episode so far because of the lack of Delores, haha. She's boring and there was too much of her before.