-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
lol, is that what's happening.
20cent
Banned
Mmmokay. Why would Arnold want to leak the data? Anyway, the way the flashback happens implied that Ford lied when he said he never used Bernard to kill anyone before Theresa. That's how I see it but yes, that could be just Bernard suddenly remembering having been controlled to kill by someone else.
Love this show, absolutely hate the Leftovers...
Erm, that makes no sense. I mean, I get what you're saying but you're justifying sloppy writing by working backwards to find a reason. Let's approach this from a forward moving position. They want to use Bernard as leverage on Ford, either making him crack and accuse Ford, or for Ford to break down from built and take the blame. So they fire Bernard. What do you think is the realistic thing that happens next when Ford doesn't immediately fold?
a) Security escorts Bernard to his quarters to take his his necessities before escorting him to a private part of Mesa Gold where he is held until decompression is complete so he can leave the park. In doing so they isolate him from Ford, and put more pressure on both to crack, furthering their agenda.
b) Everyone leaves Bernard and Ford alone because no one takes their jobs or agendas that seriously, and Bernard is allowed to freely interact with other employees, possibly tainting the process of any further investigation they could use to accuse Ford and Bernard of more wrongdoings. Bernard is further allowed to continue to interact with all parts of the park and has security clearance to do anything, allowing him to compromise evidence further and undermine any attempt to force Ford out of the park.
Arnold isn't leaking any data. Elsie said that Theresa was using the Bicameral System to retask the woodcutter to leak data, but that someone else (Arnold) was also using the system and has been using it for weeks to retask hosts for some other purpose she couldn't figure out yet.
Teletraan1
Banned
From that scene, that was the expectation. Even Bernard was waiting for Ford to say something and then he didn't. Applying current corporate standards regarding firing policy towards fictional thing we don't have the whole picture of seems hilarious. Ford has this place playing his tune and he is the conductor.
20cent
Banned
I love the Leftovers, probably my favorite show ever. But it's too early to know what I think about WW, it's like everything I like about it disappears every 2 episodes, or at least when the focus comes to Maeve, and that even before the butchers gag.
(Watching the 2 seasons of the leftovers in one weekend without the wait, frustration or disappointment between each episode probably eased my appreciation though)
Aaaaah. Okay. I forgot that.
My impression has always been that the rules regarding whether humans can get hurt in Westworld become more lax the further out you travel.
Now, I have no idea why the techs aren't aware that players are getting choked and bludgeoned, but in all of these encounters the players either defied the storyline, or ventured out of Sweetwater.
Now, I have no idea why the techs aren't aware that players are getting choked and bludgeoned, but in all of these encounters the players either defied the storyline, or ventured out of Sweetwater.
Teletraan1
Banned
For some people. You went into great depth and put some thought into it. There are a lot of people just parroting "BAD WRITING BLEH"
Edit: Read this page and next. Anything that can't be immediately explained is written off as bad writing. George Lucas writing even. I have confidence that a lot of these plot holes will be filled in by the end of the season, if they aren't and the payoff isn't satisfying I will eat crow. The whole style of storytelling has been about as deceptive as you can imagine since the pilot.
Cornballer
Member
Reviews:
- Onion A|V Club
- Sepinwall
- Rolling Stone
- Vox
- EW
- IndieWire
- Washington Post
- The Ringer
- THR
- IGN
- NY Times
Other:
- NY Mag: Our Biggest Questions After Westworld, Episode 8
- Promo for next week's episode (please spoiler tag any discussion)
- Onion A|V Club
- Sepinwall
- Rolling Stone
- Vox
- EW
- IndieWire
- Washington Post
- The Ringer
- THR
- IGN
- NY Times
Other:
- NY Mag: Our Biggest Questions After Westworld, Episode 8
- Promo for next week's episode (please spoiler tag any discussion)
keltickennedy
Member
Yep. The entire time I'm watching it I know that all of this isn't going to lead to anything. There isn't going to be any resolution. Just a season that builds to a cliffhanger, then you have to wait for another season. Then the process repeats the next season.
Has there been any shows of late that actually have a full arch planned out in just one season. The only thing I can think of is the Netflix Marvel stuff. They have a full resolution then just give a subtle tease for something that could happen in future seasons.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
I really hope we get a disturbing OG Westworld human slaughter revolution instead of one where Maeve orders the hosts to sequester all the guests into one big bedroom orgy while her, Hector, and blonde lady heist out of WW.
TimeEffect
Member
One other thing I dont get is how Ford could allow Theresa to be declared dead. It looks sooo suspicious, but I guess he has his tracks covered and sends a hint to the hot boss lady.
We all thought Theresa would be a host, but Im confused now.
In regards to Bernard, he seems to be really upset, yet Ford erases his memory...but we see that he is remembering past events, right? Shouldnt this show up for Ford on his tablet? How are hosts having these memories with nothing showing up on the system?
We all thought Theresa would be a host, but Im confused now.
In regards to Bernard, he seems to be really upset, yet Ford erases his memory...but we see that he is remembering past events, right? Shouldnt this show up for Ford on his tablet? How are hosts having these memories with nothing showing up on the system?
I'm very sure this isn't going to be true at all. The season will conclude and we will have answers for all the major mysteries introduced this season. But I don't think it'll be particularly satisfying because that's all there is - mysteries and solutions. It's a neat puzzle narrative about figuring out what goes where. But beyond that there are no characters worth thinking about, no deeper relationships between characters, and just nothing particularly interesting about the setting and the scope that extends beyond "what is the answer to this mystery".
SuperStiltzkin
Member
White Butcher belongs in a Nolan Batman movie as an extra. "THINGS ARE WORSE THAN EVAR!"
It also might be that the board is acting outside of him, just like Charlotte is trying to circumvent Ford. He is getting old so the other directors are probably staking their claim to follow him.
Captin Quacker
Member
Seriously
In order to get maeve into behavior modification the butchers just changed there clothes
No badges
No security checkpoints
No scanner
Just a change of clothes and done
elrechazado
Banned
Board lady clearly knows Ford murdered Theresa, and Ford knows she knows. The little knowing looks are so obvious between them, and it seems clear from dialogue from both that the board is constantly testing Ford, and he's constantly fending them off in this power struggle.
High stakes cutthroat back and forth going back decades.
this episode was episode 6 tier bad again. I hope the message isn't god Ford knew everything about the guests and his employees but he actually doesn't know everything about the hosts.
How Ford hasn't noticed Maeve is so out of character unless her is his new narrative specially showing that Ford has had encounters with Maeve before and knows something is different with her. otherwise it's shit story, shiiit!
I'm surprised Elsie is seemingly really dead though, how fast Bernard could get to her. She seemed like a somewhat important character for future, I guess not. What I don't get is why would Ford lie to Bernard there? He's erasing him anyway. So my guess is that Ford didn't order that but maybe Arnold did. Elsie feel like a pointless character right now.
Overall, I don't have a good feeling about this story right now. Writing seems so uneven at best. I like the concept a lot but yeah...
How Ford hasn't noticed Maeve is so out of character unless her is his new narrative specially showing that Ford has had encounters with Maeve before and knows something is different with her. otherwise it's shit story, shiiit!
I'm surprised Elsie is seemingly really dead though, how fast Bernard could get to her. She seemed like a somewhat important character for future, I guess not. What I don't get is why would Ford lie to Bernard there? He's erasing him anyway. So my guess is that Ford didn't order that but maybe Arnold did. Elsie feel like a pointless character right now.
Overall, I don't have a good feeling about this story right now. Writing seems so uneven at best. I like the concept a lot but yeah...
Teletraan1
Banned
Or maybe they picked the dad because he was the least poopy looking host down there since he was a new arrival. The cold storage has been broken, the hosts are made up of material that mimics our own physiology so instead of looking like a melted wax dummy they wanted one that might pass for a human if the plan is to sneak one out. Did nobody notice how shit the other hosts looked in comparison?
arts&crafts
Member
yea but out of like 500 hosts they just so happen to choose him...thats a stretch. Im sure they can easily make them look nice again.
This also makes no sense to me. What Elsie found was that Arnold and Teresa were doing stuff, but nothing to do Ford. Unless this helps a Arnold = Ford theory.
The impression I got was that this was Ford's way of saying he knows what the board members are trying to do and that he's not afraid of murdering people to stop them because he thinks there's nothing they can do about it anyway.
She presumably found something that had something to do with Arnold and the park's past which Ford would rather remain hidden.
Teletraan1
Banned
Only 2 were new to "cold" storage. The father and the milk guy. It was probably between those two since they were the least melted wax looking. Why would they choose one they had to repair their physical appearance. They needed one specifically to pass as a human.
Who says Elsie is dead?
The actress is listed as appearing in 9 episodes this season.
Raven117
Member
While I still enjoy the show...I feel it has lost steam a little bit.
The larger questions of humanity (violence, sex, life) have largely been sidelined in favor of the park's lore.
I hope the last two episodes move the ball forward in a significantly way. The show is starting to circle on itself without really going anywhere.
The larger questions of humanity (violence, sex, life) have largely been sidelined in favor of the park's lore.
I hope the last two episodes move the ball forward in a significantly way. The show is starting to circle on itself without really going anywhere.
20cent
Banned
The same Maeve's "previous life" flashbacks happens every single episodes for 5 minutes, another flashback of Elsie's strangulation next episode and here are the 9 episodes appearances.
That's why I previously said that 4 seasons seemed already too much. But that's what they will need if they already insert filler episodes every 2 weeks in a 10 episodes season with a plot not that mysterious and from which most twists have been already theorized very early. Hopefully I am wrong.
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
Was it the last retired host that doesn't have holes in him/lobotomized?
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
It bothered me too, but it doesn't bother me too much.
It's fitting, in a way - all of these people have eyes so turned into the park, that they can't tell when their own house is falling apart.
All of their security and QA teams are focused on their park map and watching guests and fantasizing about hosts, it's not a big shock they have sort of a blind eye to internal workings since they "haven't had a major issue in 30 years." And Maeve likely isn't a major player in the narrative- - brothel madame where most of the whoring with guests is done by others - she barely interacts with guests and when she doesn't do it well, she's gotten flagged anyway.
Ford not noticing is very out of character, but it seems fairly obvious that this is part of his larger narrative - or part of Arnolds, she's a pawn being used in a larger game between two forces.
Like John Locke was LOST.
MiamiWesker
Member
Gaf totally emotional and crazy as usual.
That episode was FANTASTIC. The opening scene was one of the best scenes I have seen on television. We got loads of information on Ford's view of the world, what he is working on, what his grand plan is. We learned about MIBs motivations and are seeing William slowly become the MIB.
The episode moved at a great pace and was tense throughout. Ford versus the board room chick was another stand out moment. We have Bernard basically stuck as a slave. Maeve is starting her plan for revolution. MIB and William are both in bad spots and we are going to learn a bunch about that character soon enough.
Yes the butchers storyline feels like it's a different show. Clearly the weak link. Still Maeve slashing the dudes throat and then wanting him alive, wow.
This show is exciting, it's thought provoking, it's compelling. Best show on tv.
That episode was FANTASTIC. The opening scene was one of the best scenes I have seen on television. We got loads of information on Ford's view of the world, what he is working on, what his grand plan is. We learned about MIBs motivations and are seeing William slowly become the MIB.
The episode moved at a great pace and was tense throughout. Ford versus the board room chick was another stand out moment. We have Bernard basically stuck as a slave. Maeve is starting her plan for revolution. MIB and William are both in bad spots and we are going to learn a bunch about that character soon enough.
Yes the butchers storyline feels like it's a different show. Clearly the weak link. Still Maeve slashing the dudes throat and then wanting him alive, wow.
This show is exciting, it's thought provoking, it's compelling. Best show on tv.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Me! Me!
I'm hooked on Westworld, though TBD still if I find it as good as leftovers. The thrill aspects are stronger but the drama isn't as intense.
The reviews Cornballer just posted seemed to have a problem with the episode as well. My mother, who loved episode 7, said she didn't know what was happening this time.
It seems to be confusing viewers, even those not hung up on the plot holes.
Curt Baboon
Member
There's no way this Wyatt thing isn't ultimately about crossover between different parks, right?
The dudes had Medieval armor!
The dudes had Medieval armor!
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
I think the MiB is going to become "Wyatt"
Yup. This is definitely not a projection from the person posting this. MiamiWesker is obviously not a totally emotional and crazy person.
The use of caps is clearly not an indication of emotional attachment to something potentially clouding any judgement. The statement that follows is certainly not hyperbole of any kind.
Said poster is not exhibiting emotional behavior at all. None.
GarthVaderUK
Banned
Honestly, I don't feel that element was particularity sloppy or that I needed to work backwards, I naturally assumed that was what was happening while I was watching - it didn't raise any questions for me and I was genuinely surprised to see people having a major problem with it here.
However, I would theorise that maybe that's because I'm simply not used to the ridiculous 'instantly escorted out' firing culture of the US, whereas anything else might be completely alien to some US viewers. Being given a couple of weeks notice when fired is something that exists today, and you're expected to act professionally even though you know you're on your way out - causing trouble is not good for your future employment prospects. Theresa even says to Bernard that she appreciates his professionalism after his changed status when he was continuing the explore the issue with her.
We don't know what the firing laws are like in the future so I find it odd that some here can't imagine that firing people might not play out in the exactly same way as it would in the US today when we're watching a futuristic and apparently almost utopian society.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
I fall asleep during almost every episode. Most of the dialogue is just really really really boring.
Discotheque
Banned
I like both. Tbh Im enjoying Westworld more than even game of thrones first season and that had the benefit of a well thought out source material to work off of.
The writing in here is inconsistent when it comes to plotting but man some of the actors in here really up sell it big time. Hell the Maeve scenes are fine with me too due to thandie. Though something needs to be done quick about her ease of getting control
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
If MiB is William, then it's likely he's actually the head of the board... he married Logans sister, after all, we just learned.
Logan mentioned early on that his company was investigating buying Westworld since it was "hemorraging cash" - and his father was head of the company (do we know if logans last name is Delos?) William was just made EVP (30 years ago), and Logan takes him to Westworld to celebrate and sell him on his support of buying the place. William married the sister, Logan bites it, William inherits the company over the 30 years and becomes a "captain of industry." Etc etc. it fits.
Also explains how MiB can do whatever he wants on WW, and people leave him alone... he's not the general manager, but he writes the checks.
That scene between MiB and Ford is even stronger when you realize the power these two men have but how powerless they are to actually harm one another, if that's the case. Hale and the others are pawns in some game.... maybe MiB wants Arnold as another chip on the board against Ford. That's the curveball.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
There was a host on her bed when she said that.
H.Cornerstone
Member
Why would Ford want Elsie dead? That doesn't really make sense.
Different people with different opinions? I dunno. I've never been particularly high on the show- mainly watching it because it scratches my sci-fi itch. WW is a great example of how a show can't just be a mystery box- it has to have compelling characters and a reasonable plot alongside. All of those big network shows that tried to copy Lost a few years back got that part wrong.