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[Forsaken82]

They have a 5/6 season storyline planned out. And it's from the creators of a show that grew larger in scope each season (aka Person of Interest)

Also the show isn't about the park. It's about the "origin of a new species and how that would play out in its complexity"

The park is just the petri dish, the isolated habitat where AI self-awareness can foment and evolve

Ill believe it when I see it. Person of Interest had far more room for growth in my opinion (you can do a lot with what ultimately served as a merc for hire story of the week concept with a full season arc, i mean, Burn Notice got like 6 seasons because of that set up to). Season 1 of Westworld alone has been packed with so many layers of non linear content that I find it difficult to see what they do beyond a season 2 that will likely be centered on the sentient AI's search for freedom.

 

[Zoe]

Although one interesting thing, which maybe is just an error, was MiB said "I once cut one of you open..." but it wasn't William who did the cutting. Still, I think that's just a script error rather than a Logan swerve.

He did hack up some of the soldiers while Logan was blacked out,

 

[More_Badass]

Dolores in the present is re-enacting her experience with William from the past, as per the instructions of her Arnold mind instructions (which may be part of Ford's new storyline?). She's re-living her gain of consciousness in the same way Bernard was this episode. Remember when she was at the town with the church with William it was buried. It was used for testing the hosts before the park opened, then buried, and still buried early on in the present part of the series when Ford was scouting for his new story. Ford re-excavated it and Dolores is there in the present now. Her thinking William was at the door and the MiB actually being there couldn't have been a more blatant tell, I don't think.

People will be in denial until MIB says "It's me, William"

Which he basically did, with Dolores' "William?" and cut to MIB reveal

Like you say, you can't get more blatant than that unless you want to insult the audience's intelligence

 

[jordan0386]

"Never place your trust in us, we're only human."


My God. There had to have been a standing ovation at the table read when that line was delivered.

One more episode to go!!

 

[Jonm1010]

But an HBO show? That won't be back till 2018?

What else is he doing? He hasn't exactly been in any major roles besides Odin

Thats my thinking. As the same concern has crossed my mind but that is what I come back to.

Like the unfortunately cancelled Luck, and some of these other big name older actors doing TV shows, HBO seems like a niche where these older actors can still get really great roles that carry some heavy prestige.

I mean its a nice alternative for some of these actors that get up in age and get stuck with mostly soulless roles.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Gaslighting: The TV Series

Fuck, Ford and Bernard have such an abusive relationship it's almost hard to watch sometimes.

Iffy episode for me but the scenes between Ford and Bernard are the highlights of the show, as usual. I'm probably just burnt out on the unreliable narrators and tricky editing to obscure revelations. We're 9 hours deep into this so it got old for me 4 hours ago.

Hoping next week is just a huge dissection on The Man in Black.

 

[Buttonbasher]

Of course Maeve can now control other hosts. Why not

That was in last episode, and makes sense with what those tablets seem to be able to do.

 

[Geist-]

Dolores in the present is re-enacting her experience with William from the past, as per the instructions of her Arnold mind instructions (which may be part of Ford's new storyline?). She's re-living her gain of consciousness in the same way Bernard was this episode. Remember when she was at the town with the church with William it was buried. It was used for testing the hosts before the park opened, then buried, and still buried early on in the present part of the series when Ford was scouting for his new story. Ford re-excavated it and Dolores is there in the present now. Her thinking William was at the door and the MiB actually being there couldn't have been a more blatant tell, I don't think.

Pretty sure the MIB being there could be explained by both Delores and the MIB following the same maze.

Still, I concede that it is possible and at the very least, the writers are trying to imply something like that.

 

[faceless007]

Wasn't it just a bit convenient for Maeve's plan that she happened to be woken up by a behavior tech that happened to be a host? What was her plan if it was yet another low level tech?

Wait, doesn't Dolores seeing MIB while she's wearing her "old" clothes refute the dual timeline theory? What was up with that?

No, she's simply wearing the same clothes from 30 years ago.

Yes it sounds stupid but I'm being serious.

I was wondering this exact same thing and I'm still confused. We were led to think hiking outfit = 30 years ago, blue dress = "now", concurrent with the Ford and Bernard shenanigans. What timeframe are we in that's pretty close to the rest of the MiB's quest, during most of which she's been in the blue dress, but suddenly for this final scene she's back in the hiking outfit? Does that mean at some point in the Dolores running away scenes the show jumped from William timeline to now but kept her in the same clothes? That feels like a cheat to me.

 

[ralexand]

Sick of all the whining about Maeve. I like that subplot.

 

[wenis]

Sick of all the whining about Maeve. I like that subplot.

Yep.

 

[Buttonbasher]

Sick of all the whining about Maeve. I like that subplot.

She's so great, and that story is so exciting. Hope they don't shut it down.

 

[NightShift]

Are we supposed to believe that Ford just erased Arnold's existence? Because it's pretty ridiculous how no one noticed that Bernard looks exactly like Arnold. I'm loving the absolute fuck out of this show but this seems to be a pretty big plot hole.

 

[PaulKersey]

Really enjoying the show and this thread, but I think I might have enjoyed it more if I hadn't read all of these theories. I WON'T BE BACK NEXT SEASON, GUYS!

 

[KingKong]

People will be in denial until MIB says "It's me, William"

Which he basically did, with Dolores' "William?" and cut to MIB reveal

Like you say, you can't get more blatant than that unless you want to insult the audience's intelligence

I agree now, the flies are a nice touch. Still dont see the point of it though

 

[SCHUEY F1]

I assume Arnold was well known in creating the park so how does no one recognize Bernard as him??

Also I assume William lost/threw away the photo of his wife during his many visits to Dolores and that's why the host father found it on the farm.

 

[Zoe]

Is it possible the host being built under the house is another Bernard?

He could just repair current Bernard.

Maybe he's creating himself and plans on transferring his consciousness.

Why would ford have Bernard kill elise, she was uncovering the boards plot to steal info.

She uncovered that a second unknown person has been doing weird things around the park. Presumably that's Ford.

Are we supposed to believe that Ford just erased Arnold's existence? Because it's pretty ridiculous how no one noticed that Bernard looks exactly like Arnold. I'm loving the absolute fuck out of this show but this seems to be a pretty big plot hole.

They actually did say that practically all traces of him were wiped. And notice that there's nobody working there who's old enough to have been around 30 years ago. Even Theresa said she went there as a child.

 

[More_Badass]

Are we supposed to believe that Ford just erased Arnold's existence? Because it's pretty ridiculous how no one noticed that Bernard looks exactly like Arnold. I'm loving the absolute fuck out of this show but this seems to be a pretty big plot hole.

No one there knows who Arnold is or what he looked like. They weren't around when Arnold was alive. It was decades ago

 

[Grizzlyjin]

I was wondering this exact same thing and I'm still confused. We were led to think hiking outfit = 30 years ago, blue dress = "now", concurrent with the Ford and Bernard shenanigans. What timeframe are we in that's pretty close to the rest of the MiB's quest, during most of which she's been in the blue dress, but suddenly for this final scene she's back in the hiking outfit? Does that mean at some point in the Dolores running away scenes the show jumped from William timeline to now but kept her in the same clothes? That feels like a cheat to me.

I think they've shown her in the clean hiking outfit before. A couple episodes back she was having one of her freak-outs and was in the hiking outfit but all alone. I definitely noticed it when she was on the train. I assume that's current day Delores.

Blue dress Delores is test version Delores, I think. And then you have dirty hiking outfit Delores in William's story. I'm so done with all the jumping around this story does. It isn't cute anymore

 

[pa22word]

I was wondering this exact same thing and I'm still confused. We were led to think hiking outfit = 30 years ago, blue dress = "now", concurrent with the Ford and Bernard shenanigans. What timeframe are we in that's pretty close to the rest of the MiB's quest, during most of which she's been in the blue dress, but suddenly for this final scene she's back in the hiking outfit? Does that mean at some point in the Dolores running away scenes the show jumped from William timeline to now but kept her in the same clothes? That feels like a cheat to me.

Something tells me you guys are just overthinking it.

I think Delores probably mentally still perceives herself in William timeline, but MIB is actually in modern day. Wouldn't be surprised to see reverse shots next week of delores dragging him through the church like in the preview while MIB is actually being drug through the sand. The shot this week being more than anything else more of a dramatic effect to show off the final bridging of the two timelines more than anything crazy, timeline wise.

 

[royalan]

It really doesn't make sense for Logan or William to be the MIB, if we're assuming that the storyline with Maeve is the present. Dolores is directly responsible for Maeve's glitches ("These violent delights have violent ends"), and that seems to have lead directly to Dolores' own descent into consciousness that we are seeing currently with the William storyline. And Dolores I'm pretty sure had some flashbacks to when she was assaulted by the MIB. These theories are ridiculous.

Spoiler

I'm more surprised than I should be by the Arnold revelation.

That's what I'm hoping for. A little piece of rebellion by Bernard to keep her alive, made possible by the fact that she never died onscreen.

I definitely think Dolores speaking that line to Maeve changed her somehow, but I don't think that completely explains Maeve's sentience. As we saw when MiB killed her daughter, Maeve's broken through her code before, well before any of this took place.

I think Maeve, like Dolores (and possibly Teddy), might be the sentient hosts Bernard mentioned in his conversation with Ford. They might be a part of the original group of hosts Arnold was working on to give true sentience.

 

[Extollere]

That was a goddamn excellent hour of television. Some great acting in this one.

However, I think the Internet is hurting this show in a way I can't recall happening in any show before. Literally every single twist has been sussed out weeks in advance by overzealous sleuths. Like I said, this was a damn good hour of television. But it had like 3 major reveals that didn't hit with the ooomph they should have because the Internet analysts have been going over every frame with a fine tooth comb since day one and discovered them. Maybe it's just me, but Westworld has really turned me from those kind of viewing habits. Makes me want to go back to just watching shows in a bubble, in a way. I love the discussion and debate but I can't help but feel like this level or scrutiny is hurting my enjoyment. I've been feeling it on some level for a while, but this episode really solidified the feeling for me.

Lol I haven't read a single thing about this show. Just watching episodes as they come with no speculation. Join me.

 

[Extollere]

By the way if you watch the opening high as fuck it's like the most mind blowing thing.

 

[pa22word]

That was a goddamn excellent hour of television. Some great acting in this one.

However, I think the Internet is hurting this show in a way I can't recall happening in any show before. Literally every single twist has been sussed out weeks in advance by overzealous sleuths. Like I said, this was a damn good hour of television. But it had like 3 major reveals that didn't hit with the ooomph they should have because the Internet analysts have been going over every frame with a fine tooth comb since day one and discovered them. Maybe it's just me, but Westworld has really turned me from those kind of viewing habits. Makes me want to go back to just watching shows in a bubble, in a way. I love the discussion and debate but I can't help but feel like this level or scrutiny is hurting my enjoyment. I've been feeling it on some level for a while, but this episode really solidified the feeling for me.

I remember thinking the exact same thing when MGSV came out. When GZ came out everyone ripped the game apart via datamining and gave real credence to some silly fanwank theories that would have been just that otherwise. That those silly fanwank theories ended up being mostly true is Kojima/10 and all for sure, but I think it really took away a ton of the spectacle of the game's storyline.

 

[TheVampire]

How did William overpower all those hosts to kill them?
We have seen before a human can get hold down or restrained by hosts

Also im not sure how Ford stopped Clem can anyone explain that?

 

[zeemumu]

It truly is The Matrix for robots.

 

[Jack Scofield]

I'm not liking William's character development these past two episodes. It feels completely out of place and unearned. It's like the writers are desperately trying to connect the dots between William and the MiB in time for the season finale, instead of building a solid foundation from the beginning. He looks like a lunatic.

 

[metalslimer]

I do have to admit that the reveal of Bernard being a host was much more impactful to me since I had never read any of the theories of that before.

 

[Pooya]

Wasn't it just a bit convenient for Maeve's plan that she happened to be woken up by a behavior tech that happened to be a host? What was her plan if it was yet another low level tech?
.

Exactly what she's been doing so far with those 2 dudes I guess.... yeah...

 

[Einchy]

I'm not liking William's character development these past two episodes. It feels completely out of place and unearned. It's like the writers are desperately trying to connect the dots between William and the MiB in time for the season finale, instead of building a solid foundation from the beginning. He looks like a lunatic.

I can buy that he completely snapped after what Logan did.

 

[Ferrio]

Wasn't it just a bit convenient for Maeve's plan that she happened to be woken up by a behavior tech that happened to be a host? What was her plan if it was yet another low level tech?

She was experiencing very odd behavior and was taken in for it. It was something important enough that it needed Bernard or maybe Ford to investigate.

 

[HawkeyeIC]

I'm not liking William's character development these past two episodes. It feels completely out of place and unearned. It's like the writers are desperately trying to connect the dots between William and the MiB in time for the season finale, instead of building a solid foundation from the beginning. He looks like a lunatic.

He's in love and has lost all sense of reality.

 

[Jinfash]

No one there knows who Arnold is or what he looked like. They weren't around when Arnold was alive. It was decades ago

Those who were around were seemingly slaughtered, per Dolores' flashback.

 

[metalslimer]

Was it actually a part of Maeves plan to get captured? She didn't actually accomplish anything back there.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

How did William overpower all those hosts to kill them?
We have seen before a human can get hold down or restrained by hosts

Also im not sure how Ford stopped Clem can anyone explain that?

I don't know if he has to overpower them. They're made for him to fuck or kill at his own discretion. Once Logan let him go, they'd just go with the flow. But I think the implication was that everyone got drunk and he did it while they were passed out. At least that's what I got.

I'm not liking William's character development these past two episodes. It feels completely out of place and unearned. It's like the writers are desperately trying to connect the dots between William and the MiB in time for the season finale, instead of building a solid foundation from the beginning. He looks like a lunatic.

Yeah, his arc basically got the fast forward x6 since he hooked up with Delores. Even that seemed a little fast for me given how loyal he was to his fiancée. But it was cool. After that it has been going at lightning speed.

 

[Ferrio]

So is there any significance to the picture of his wife being the same one as found by Abernathy?

 

[Einchy]

So is there any significance to the picture of his wife being the same one as found by Abernathy?

Different timelines, yo!

That and the hosts being mechanical is the writers letting the viewers who haven't been reading the internet that there's some weird shit going on.

 

[Ferrio]

Different timelines, yo!

Oh ya I guess. Though there were enough "hey look two timelines" in this episode that it wasn't really needed.

 

[pa22word]

How did William overpower all those hosts to kill them?
We have seen before a human can get hold down or restrained by hosts

not to mention make that much mayhem and carnage without waking ol' boy up

I mean I've been on some bad drunks in my life, but none that the equiv of WW3 going on a foot away wouldn't wake me out of >.>

 

[HoJu]

fun epsiode. agree with Jett that the show goes crazy with the twists, and there are so many contrivances that the whole thing seems forced. like Logan bringing that picture of his sister to the murder and rape theme park lol. but i'm not taking it seriously so i'm having fun.

i'm just really hoping for another scene with Hopkins and Harris in the finale.

 

[zeemumu]

If

Spoiler

MiB is William

, wouldn't that mean that

Spoiler

all of the outisde world stuff has to take place in present day since Anthony Hopkins is old while MiB is old but the guys on the outside attempted to investigate Dolores' actions while she was with William?

 

[KINGofCRA5H]

This show. What ever they decide to do I am completely ON FUCKING BOARD. Let's go.

 

[Operations]

Amazing episode. Loved the cinematography, music, dialogue, the acting, just everything.

And of course Maeve's rebellion is all part of Ford's plan. He installed the reveries update which led to all of this!

On a separate note, I think I missed Arnold's last name reveal. When was it mentioned/showed?

 

[Ferrio]

If

Spoiler

MiB is William

, wouldn't that mean that

Spoiler

all of the outisde world stuff has to take place in present day since Anthony Hopkins is old while MiB is old but the guys on the outside attempted to investigate Dolores' actions while she was with William?

Spoiler

That was a red herring. The guy that tried to take Delores was never confirmed to be sent by the park. We've never seen him since either.

 

[Jonm1010]

I don't know if he has to overpower them. They're made for him to fuck or kill at his own discretion. Once Logan let him go, they'd just go with the flow. But I think the implication was that everyone got drunk and he did it while they were passed out. At least that's what I got.



Yeah, his arc basically got the fast forward x6 since he hooked up with Delores. Even that seemed a little fast for me given how loyal he was to his fiancée. But it was cool. After that it has been going at lightning speed.

Pace of his arc aside, I told my girlfriend tonight how blown away I am with Liam McPoyle.

Like I actually want him to be a main character going forward but I get the feeling his actor's story is likely over after next week.

Guy has some range that I feel like they only sort of tapped into tonight and as you say, the pace kinda hurts it a bit.

 

[royalan]

I was wondering this exact same thing and I'm still confused. We were led to think hiking outfit = 30 years ago, blue dress = "now", concurrent with the Ford and Bernard shenanigans. What timeframe are we in that's pretty close to the rest of the MiB's quest, during most of which she's been in the blue dress, but suddenly for this final scene she's back in the hiking outfit? Does that mean at some point in the Dolores running away scenes the show jumped from William timeline to now but kept her in the same clothes? That feels like a cheat to me.

Blue Dress Dolores that we see in this episode is the pre-Sweetwater Dolores who lived in the buried village.

Dolores when she lived in the Buried Villiage pre-park = Blue Dress
Dolores when she lives in Sweetwater = Blue Dress
Dolores when she meets William and goes on adventure = Hiking Outfit
Dolores Now = Hiking Outfit

My prediction for the rest of the season (major spoilers I guess):

Spoiler

I think there's another Delores in here, because I think the Dolores we see running with the stab wound is the one who makes it back to the church, makes it to the underground offices, has a confrontation with Ford and Arnold where she kills Arnold, and then everyone else in the town. Presumably while she's killing all the hosts in town is when William (who's now in gives-no-fucks-mode) meets up with her and helps her do it. Once all the hosts are dead she kills herself. William then meets with Young Ford, they cover the whole thing up, William (who IS MiB) protects Ford's job in return he requests that Dolores is returned to her life in Sweetwater.

The Dolores we see in the blue dress who meets with Ford in the dark room is Dolores after the incident but before she runs into MiB and her dad goes nuts, setting her back on her old loop.

And there, that's the show.

 

[Zoe]

Also im not sure how Ford stopped Clem can anyone explain that?

The prime directive to not kill humans has to be manually entered. Ford built a backdoor that prevents them from ever harming him even when at a clean slate.

My prediction for the rest of the season (major spoilers I guess):

Spoiler

I think there's another Delores in here, because I think the Dolores we see running with the stab wound is the one who makes it back to the church, makes it to the underground offices, has a confrontation with Ford and Arnold where she kills Arnold, and then everyone else in the town. Presumably while she's killing all the hosts in town is when William (who's now in gives-no-fucks-mode) meets up with her and helps her do it. Once all the hosts are dead she kills herself. William then meets with Young Ford, they cover the whole thing up, William (who IS MiB) protects Ford's job in return he requests that Dolores is returned to her life in Sweetwater.

Spoiler

Unless you think she got sliced open a second time, Arnold is already dead during William's part.

 

[Jinfash]

So is there any significance to the picture of his wife being the same one as found by Abernathy?

I think there is beyond the "two timelines" clues. For once, we now know it's no random guest who was in the photo, but Juliette. So did the MiB drop it by accident as he was dragging Dolores in present time or was it William in the past who buried it? Was a random occurrence or planted for a reason?

And unless I'm mistaken, we don't know yet why Abernathy didn't think it "looks like nothing." Random glitch or part of a bigger plan? If it's the latter, was it Ford, MiB or Arnold who's setting these events in motion.

Long story short, I'll reiterate that it holds more significance.

 

[zeemumu]

Spoiler

That was a red herring. The guy that tried to take Delores was never confirmed to be sent by the park. We've never seen him since either.

But the

Spoiler

photo is the one that Logan had that Dolores' dad found in present day so did we just ditch present Dolores after the end of episode 1 since her interactions after that have all been on her adventure with William?

 

[molnizzle]

Wasn't it just a bit convenient for Maeve's plan that she happened to be woken up by a behavior tech that happened to be a host? What was her plan if it was yet another low level tech?

Her plan was just to fake it for the tech and get sent back out all the same. You can see the moment when she realizes Bernard is a host and changes her behavior. I don't think she was aware before that.