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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO

M

Matty77

Member
Speevy said:
The story has repeatedly alluded to the oversight present in the park, and then thrown it out the window whenever it's convenient.

Why are William and Logan permitted to get strangled and beaten half to death, for example?

You'd think someone would step in and do something.

Ford having a plan would not stop hundreds of employees from detecting the strange happenings in the park.
Click to expand...
The violence from hosts has been explained both in show and by Nolan and Brubaker as they can get rough but there is always an out and no lasting damage. How else does Logan go from getting beat to being their leader? Because it's a game. But they want you to feel challenge and risk.
 
K

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Jocund said:
You literally see his body drop, though. I understand the show isn't afraid to mess with perception, but that shot seemed to be exclusively from Ford's POV.
Click to expand...

Yes. That's why it's unlikely, but given how twists have gone on the show I can't rule it out. He could have moved the gun enough to not destroy the brain. Or he could have let himself fall to wait for Ford to be gone.
 
M

Makai

Member
Kai Dracon said:
Yes. That's why it's unlikely, but given how twists have gone on the show I can't rule it out. He could have moved the gun enough to not destroy the brain. Or he could have let himself fall to wait for Ford to be gone.
Click to expand...
It's okay to destroy the brain. Otherwise, what do they do with headshotted hosts. They just have the code stored on a repository somewhere and spinup a new build of bernardbot.
 
S

Scrooged

Totally wronger about Nintendo's business decisions.
Damn that was a great episode.

The reveal that Bernard is Arnold was amazing, even though a bit expected. What I didn't expect is that Ford still has him fully under control.

People are saying that Maeve's actions are part of Fords new narrative, and I tend to agree, but what if the final twist is that her actions are being orchestrated by Arnold's ghost in the machine and she will kill Ford as poetic justice for how he used Dolores to kill Arnold?
 
S

Sho_Nuff82

Member
My mind is completely blown by this episode.

Fantastic TV, especially Ford's monologue about humanity's reaction to true sentience.

The scene where Delores walks into church and all of the hosts are hearing "voices" was a surprisingly chilling analogy to our own consciousness. How do we know our inner voice isn't just reading back lines of code?

Matty77 said:
The violence from hosts has been explained both in show and by Nolan and Brubaker as they can get rough but there is always an out and no lasting damage. How else does Logan go from getting beat to being their leader? Because it's a game. But they want you to feel challenge and risk.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's pretty clear that the further you go towards the edges, the rougher the hosts are allowed to be with you. I think the first time we saw a host physically strike a guest was when William's brother in law got punched in the face in like episode 4 or 5.
 
V

Vengal

Member
I could see Ford being killed at some point but I dont think Hopkin's is getting Sean Beaned. The show is taking 2 years to come back that to me seems like they're working around someone's schedule.
 
B

Barnaby_Jones

Member
Kerned said:
Ford basically confirmed that the outside world is somewhat dystopian.
Click to expand...

"We humans are alone in this world for a reason. We murdered and butchered anything that challenged our primacy. We destroyed and subjugated our world and when we ran out of creatures to dominate, we built this beautiful place."

I think this in itself insinuates that animal life has all but died in the outside world. Ford = Ozymandias. Hints of Shelley, Watchmen and Rameses II.

He doesn't see himself as a villain because he believes (and possibly rightly so) that conscious hosts would challenge humanity, and likely win as has been depicted in Maeve's abilities.

I might add I've had a few beers so get your tin foil out.

Justin said:
Is it possible the host being built under the house is another Bernard?
Click to expand...

I'm now kinda hoping that's the case, no disrespect to the actress who plays Elsie (as was the going theory). Jeffrey Wright has been killing it and it would be a shame to say goodbye to him. We've already lost Sidse and she was amazing. It'd be a shame to have to lose Peoples Hernandez too.
 
R

royalan

Member
Kai Dracon said:
It makes sense for Ford to know everything. That being said, a random bit of speculation, spoilered in case it's right:
I feel Ford being safe from Clementine due to a back door sets up Ford to be caught by surprise just when he thinks he's still safe. Likely a buried command from Arnold that Ford doesn't know is there.
Click to expand...


This is what I'm thinking as well.

As Ford said in their conversation, they'd had that conversation before. I bet Bernard has somehow come to the realization that he's the host version of Arnold before, confronted Ford about it, and a similar scene played out, with Ford getting the better of him and wiping him each time. And, just like each of Dolores' loops gives her a bit more awareness and gets her closer to center of the maze, each confrontation with Ford has probably made Bernard more aware of Ford's backdoor. I think Maeve might be Bernarnold's backdoor to Ford's backdoor.

After all, she still has an instruction from Arnold in her code. A secondary function right out of her reach...
 
M

Mattenth

Member
I've just gotta gush.

Wow. Just wow. That was so. damn. good. From every angle! The script, the cinematography, the acting, the plot, the music. HBO could have a megahit on their hands here.

What has me most excited is just how perfect these reveals are. They're just so satisfying. And yet they perfectly edge out even more mystery and curiosity. I'm really excited for the finale and yet even more still excited for the next season.

I'm expecting the finale to be the merger of the two timelines for William / Man-in-Black. It's moved beyond "theory" at this point, but I still wonder how it happens. And I'm dying to know. How did the city sink in the sand? Was Dolores truly sentient when with William?

That was a really great episode.
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Frank the Great said:
Funny how the theories were all true. The internet nailed it even though the writers used cheap tricks to obscure things.
Click to expand...

I don't get this at all.

The only reason people were able to figure out the twists is because the writers put clues into the show, without the clues, no one would've figured out the twists. It's much easier to just put the twist in without putting in all the work but they didn't do that at all.
 
J

Jocund

Member
Kai Dracon said:
Yes. That's why it's unlikely, but given how twists have gone on the show I can't rule it out. He could have moved the gun enough to not destroy the brain. Or he could have let himself fall to wait for Ford to be gone.
Click to expand...

Good points. I was wondering why Maeve wouldn't have given him a couple stat boosts while she was fussing with the tablet thing. Or why Bernard wouldn't do it himself. But then again, Ford could easily override all that, or roll it back. Sigh. This show, man.
 
M

metalslimer

Member
Einchy said:
I don't get this at all.

The only reason people were able to figure out the twists is because the writers put clues into the show, without the clues, no one would've figured out the twists. It's much easier to just put the twist in without putting in all the work but they didn't do that at all.
Click to expand...

Yep a show's mysteries are only good if they they place the seeds. Things like Lost where they just hit you with Deux ex Machina one after the other are not good mysteries. I don't think they made the twists particularly obvious in this show but when millions are constantly trying to figure things out the internet will come up with things if clues are there.
 
M

More_Badass

Member
Einchy said:
I don't get this at all.

The only reason people were able to figure out the twists is because the writers put clues into the show, without the clues, no one would've figured out the twists. It's much easier to just put the twist in without putting in all the work but they didn't do that at all.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Ideally those clues are meant to be there for a second watch after the season is over, but us eagle-eyed obsessed fans pick up on them before the season is finished
 
J

jett

D-Member
Solo said:
That was a goddamn excellent hour of television. Some great acting in this one.

However, I think the Internet is hurting this show in a way I can't recall happening in any show before. Literally every single twist has been sussed out weeks in advance by overzealous sleuths. Like I said, this was a damn good hour of television. But it had like 3 major reveals that didn't hit with the ooomph they should have because the Internet analysts have been going over every frame with a fine tooth comb since day one and discovered them. Maybe it's just me, but Westworld has really turned me from those kind of viewing habits. Makes me want to go back to just watching shows in a bubble, in a way. I love the discussion and debate but I can't help but feel like this level or scrutiny is hurting my enjoyment. I've been feeling it on some level for a while, but this episode really solidified the feeling for me.
Click to expand...

A show that almost entirely revolves around "twists" is just never going to work in the current internet age. The showrunners are kind of stupid to be honest, since they're clearly framing the twists -which everyone that follows and disscuses this show already knows about- as big OH SHIT moments. They just don't work at all.

The revelation that Dolores killed Arnold is just silly, like a random-ass joke theory, except real lol.
 
M

More_Badass

Member
jett said:
A show that almost entirely revolves around "twists" is just never going to work in the current internet age. The showrunners are kind of stupid to be honest, since they're clearly framing the twists -which everyone that follows and disscuses this show already knows about- as big OH SHIT moments. They just don't work at all.

The revelation that Dolores killed Arnold is just silly, like a random-ass joke theory, except real lol.
Click to expand...
How many of the almost two million people per episode are actually digging through the episodes for an entire week, every week?

If it wasn't for this thread, I would never have known any of those theories or potential twists or caught any of the clues

The only reason I was even watching out for stuff was because of the super subtle different logos that was pointed out on a Reddit thread and mentioned here. It's something that the average viewer, the vast majority of the people watching the show, wouldn't notice or even be thinking about
 
M

Mariolee

Member
Finished episode. WOW. That's some DARN good television.

royalan said:
This is what I'm thinking as well.

As Ford said in their conversation, they'd had that conversation before. I bet Bernard has somehow come to the realization that he's the host version of Arnold before, confronted Ford about it, and a similar scene played out, with Ford getting the better of him and wiping him each time. And, just like each of Dolores' loops gives her a bit more awareness and gets her closer to center of the maze, each confrontation with Ford has probably made Bernard more aware of Ford's backdoor. I think Maeve might be Bernarnold's backdoor to Ford's backdoor.

After all, she still has an instruction from Arnold in her code. A secondary function right out of her reach...
Click to expand...

Holy crap, you may have just hit the nail on the head.
 
M

metalslimer

Member
jett said:
A show that almost entirely revolves around "twists" is just never going to work in the current internet age. The showrunners are kind of stupid to be honest, since they're clearly framing the twists -which everyone that follows and disscuses this show already knows about- as big OH SHIT moments. They just don't work at all.

The revelation that Dolores killed Arnold is just silly, like a random-ass joke theory, except real lol.
Click to expand...

The vast majority of people watching won't have any knowledge of the twists. Even with the knowledge the episode was done so well that it didn't matter
 
F

FStop7

Banned
Angry Grimace said:
Because he's going to erase Bernard yet again and at that point he isn't the same guy.

He basically told him that the entire scenario with Bernard confronting Ford occurs all of the time.
Click to expand...

For those familiar with the Dune series, this is like Leto II and his endless cloning of Duncan Idaho: Birth a clone of your trusted advisor, use his counsel until he realizes you're immoral and intends to turn on you, kill the clone, repeat.
 
BizzyBum

BizzyBum

Member
Solo said:
That was a goddamn excellent hour of television. Some great acting in this one.

However, I think the Internet is hurting this show in a way I can't recall happening in any show before. Literally every single twist has been sussed out weeks in advance by overzealous sleuths. Like I said, this was a damn good hour of television. But it had like 3 major reveals that didn't hit with the ooomph they should have because the Internet analysts have been going over every frame with a fine tooth comb since day one and discovered them. Maybe it's just me, but Westworld has really turned me from those kind of viewing habits. Makes me want to go back to just watching shows in a bubble, in a way. I love the discussion and debate but I can't help but feel like this level or scrutiny is hurting my enjoyment. I've been feeling it on some level for a while, but this episode really solidified the feeling for me.
Click to expand...

Yep, the Arnold reveal was cool but lost a little awesome factor for me considering I've been hearing that theory for weeks here.

This will probably be my last post here, I'm not going to read this thread anymore and go dark into the finale and seasons going forward.
 
J

jett

D-Member
Makai said:
How is Logan possibly MIB. That doesn't make any sense.
Click to expand...

This is a show where if you throw enough shit at the wall, something will stick.

For me, it's like... Logan is the MIB? Who gives a fuck. William is the MIB? Who gives a fuck. Dolores is Wyatt? Who gives a fuck.

Anything and everything can be a possible twist in Westworld.
 
S

SynthFetish

Member
FStop7 said:
For those familiar with the Dune series, this is like Leto II and his endless cloning of Duncan Idaho: Birth a clone of your trusted advisor, use his counsel until he realizes you're immoral and intends to turn on you, kill the clone, repeat.
Click to expand...

So, Bernard is the kwisatz haderach?
 
G

Geist-

Member
It really doesn't make sense for Logan or William to be the MIB, if we're assuming that the storyline with Maeve is the present. Dolores is directly responsible for Maeve's glitches ("These violent delights have violent ends"), and that seems to have lead directly to Dolores' own descent into consciousness that we are seeing currently with the William storyline. And Dolores I'm pretty sure had some flashbacks to when she was assaulted by the MIB. These theories are ridiculous.

I'm more surprised than I should be by the Arnold revelation.

golem said:
She might still be alive. Choked out by Bernard and held captive by the wild hosts who are malfunctioning. Discount thor then meets her in the next episode
Click to expand...
That's what I'm hoping for. A little piece of rebellion by Bernard to keep her alive, made possible by the fact that she never died onscreen.
 
M

Mariolee

Member
I really do love the theory that Maeve isn't a part of Ford's plan, but instead a subconcious plan of Bernard's/Arnold's to get around Ford's backdoor coding and finally kill him. It would redeem this entire Maeve storyline.
 
M

More_Badass

Member
Geist- said:
It really doesn't make sense for Logan or William to be the MIB, if we're assuming that the storyline with Maeve is the present. Dolores is directly responsible for Maeve's glitches ("These violent delights have violent ends"), and that seems to have lead directly to Dolores' own descent into consciousness that we are seeing currently with the William storyline. And Dolores I'm pretty sure had some flashbacks to when she was assaulted by the MIB. These theories are ridiculous.

I'm more surprised than I should be by the Arnold revelation.
Click to expand...
Directly responsible now. We saw what caused it earlier: Arnold experimenting with her (their talks) and telling her to find the maze
 
F

Forsaken82

Member
More_Badass said:
But an HBO show? That won't be back till 2018?

What else is he doing? He hasn't exactly been in any major roles besides Odin
Click to expand...

I don't see this show going beyond 2 seasons so it wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't have a huge contract... perhaps a third if they want to explore the world OUTSIDE of Westworld, but at that point it isn't westworld any more... It's
a sequel to Ex Machina.
 
M

More_Badass

Member
Forsaken82 said:
I don't see this show going beyond 2 seasons so it wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't have a huge contract... perhaps a third if they want to explore the world OUTSIDE of Westworld, but at that point it isn't westworld any more... It's
a sequel to Ex Machina.
Click to expand...
They have a 5/6 season storyline planned out. And it's from the creators of a show that grew larger in scope each season (aka Person of Interest)

Also the show isn't about the park. It's about the "origin of a new species and how that would play out in its complexity"

The park is just the petri dish, the isolated habitat where AI self-awareness can foment and evolve
 
G

-griffy-

Banned
Geist- said:
It really doesn't make sense for Logan or William to be the MIB, if we're assuming that the storyline with Maeve is the present. Dolores is directly responsible for Maeve's glitches ("These violent delights have violent ends"), and that seems to have lead directly to Dolores' own descent into consciousness that we are seeing currently with the William storyline. And Dolores I'm pretty sure had some flashbacks to when she was assaulted by the MIB. These theories are ridiculous.

I'm more surprised than I should be by the Arnold revelation.


That's what I'm hoping for. A little piece of rebellion by Bernard to keep her alive, made possible by the fact that she never died onscreen.
Click to expand...
Dolores in the present is re-enacting her experience with William from the past, as per the instructions of her Arnold mind instructions (which may be part of Ford's new storyline?). She's re-living her gain of consciousness in the same way Bernard was this episode. Remember when she was at the town with the church with William it was buried. It was used for testing the hosts before the park opened, then buried, and still buried early on in the present part of the series when Ford was scouting for his new story. Ford re-excavated it and Dolores is there in the present now. Her thinking William was at the door and the MiB actually being there couldn't have been a more blatant tell, I don't think.
 
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