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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO

So when they went to cold storage the first time, they went what, 83 floors down? Then it looked like they were in an ancient shopping mall with the two escalators riding down. So this is really in the future and they built on top of the old stuff right?
 

VARIA

Member
It was an interesting first episode.

What I'm wondering is how do the humans/makers/engineers get to the trouble spots of the park so quickly, teleportation?

Also, is the park a miniature, or is the miniature we see just a surveillance system? (I'm thinking the latter).

Not really sold on the first episode, but I'm definitely curious where this is going.
 

Brakke

Banned
So when they went to cold storage the first time, they went what, 83 floors down? Then it looked like they were in an ancient shopping mall with the two escalators riding down. So this is really in the future and they built on top of the old stuff right?

The future is now: the city of Seattle is built on top of the bones of old construction. You can go "underground" (really, below street level) in a few spots and see old storefronts and shit.
 
Ford mentions that they have already cured all illnesses and can prolong life. This is some far future shit. Westworld might not even be on Earth.

Feel like I just read spoilers lol. Good call. Didn't even think of that.

Anyway, loved the pilot. I'm in. Excited to see where this show can go.
 

Rixxan

Member
Id pay good money for a gif of dolores at the end when asked, "Tell me about your world."

The transition from stone dead expression to radiant joy is pretty striking, love that moment

im gonna shamelessly repost this for a new page, would greatly greatly appreciate it if anyone could find this, just looked on the typical gif sites and nada
 

Brakke

Banned
Sucks that in the time between our world and the Westworld space-faring human civilization, nobody bothered to write anything more quote-worthy than Gertrude Stein.
 

geomon

Member
Id pay good money for a gif of dolores at the end when asked, "Tell me about your world."

The transition from stone dead expression to radiant joy is pretty striking, love that moment

oszIhNR.gif


Want my paypal account?
 

Rixxan

Member
yeah i agree, maybe the audio and dialogue played a more pivotal role in the moment than i remembered

still good though
 
Watching again and love how the old android with Anthony Hopkins has that movement stutter. Nice little touch.

Oh and Angela sarayfan is ridiculously pretty
 

Brakke

Banned
I kind of liked the bit where the lab assistant / researcher / whatever lady went to kiss the saloon girl android. I wondered if they'd have some kind of Chinese iPhone factory angle there, where the workers don't make enough money to actually purchase the product they create.
 

Sky Chief

Member
Yeah, it's all real, but it's pretty confusing at first, since the entire thing looks like an artificial environment (especially with all the green plant life). I guess it's possible the entire thing could be a controlled biome as well, like the Truman Show.

If not, then I guess the real world in Westworld has some funky-looking deserts.

The show was shot in Utah
 

Hari Seldon

Member
I wasn't able to post at length before due to being on my phone, but this is my problem with the pilot:

1. The overall plot is overdone and boring. AI machines gaining sentience is probably the most common trope in sci-fi. Ex Machina, Terminator, 2001, BBC's Humans, and countless other movies and books.

2. There is no main character. The lead female is not a human and is just at the precipice of gaining sentience. There is no identifying with her. How do you identify with a sim? The people in the "real world" are just a supporting cast so far. The only "guest" that gets any decent screen time is basically a troll who likes to trap his sims in a closed room and starve them to death.

3. There is no context for the setting of the "real world". This show takes place so far in the future that the "real world" people are completely unrelatable. This is in contrast to 2001, Humans, et. al. In those works of fiction the setting is in the near future and so we can compare and contrast our current morals with those of the characters. In Westworld we have no idea. Maybe in 2150 or whenever it takes place slavery has made a giant comeback and raping some robot in a fictional setting is rather tame. This problem will hopefully be fixed in future episodes.

4. The actual story beats of the episode were boring. Ed Harris murdering some Macy's mannequins did nothing for me. They replace them on the next reboot. There is no permanence to this and therefore no reason I should care. If it is to establish Ed Harris as a bastard, well maybe his friends all beat real slaves and he instead is a good guy by being a bastard in this fake environment with no consequences.

5. The setting of the "fake world" is like some type of silly tourist trap. Why would anyone pay to go here? If you want to visit a tourist western town you can go to any number of real towns in the west. If you want to virtually rape sims surely in this super future setting you can find somewhere more interesting to do so. This is probably a silly complaint but I just don't like this Back to the Future 3 style of western town setting.

The one thing I really liked about the episode was Anthony Hopkins having a drink with one of his creations. A sci-fi Pinocchio theme would be fairly original. Everything in the "real world" was more interesting to me, when it should probably be the other way around.
 
The area where they stored all of the hosts that malfunctioned or acted weird, was it hinted that place was once a area of the, "theme park"?
 
I kind of liked the bit where the lab assistant / researcher / whatever lady went to kiss the saloon girl android. I wondered if they'd have some kind of Chinese iPhone factory angle there, where the workers don't make enough money to actually purchase the product they create.

I think it's just the obligatory HBO fan service.
 
I wasn't able to post at length before due to being on my phone, but this is my problem with the pilot:

1. The overall plot is overdone and boring. AI machines gaining sentience is probably the most common trope in sci-fi. Ex Machina, Terminator, 2001, BBC's Humans, and countless other movies and books.

2. There is no main character. The lead female is not a human and is just at the precipice of gaining sentience. There is no identifying with her. How do you identify with a sim? The people in the "real world" are just a supporting cast so far. The only "guest" that gets any decent screen time is basically a troll who likes to trap his sims in a closed room and starve them to death.

3. There is no context for the setting of the "real world". This show takes place so far in the future that the "real world" people are completely unrelatable. This is in contrast to 2001, Humans, et. al. In those works of fiction the setting is in the near future and so we can compare and contrast our current morals with those of the characters. In Westworld we have no idea. Maybe in 2150 or whenever it takes place slavery has made a giant comeback and raping some robot in a fictional setting is rather tame. This problem will hopefully be fixed in future episodes.

4. The actual story beats of the episode were boring. Ed Harris murdering some Macy's mannequins did nothing for me. They replace them on the next reboot. There is no permanence to this and therefore no reason I should care. If it is to establish Ed Harris as a bastard, well maybe his friends all beat real slaves and he instead is a good guy by being a bastard in this fake environment with no consequences.

5. The setting of the "fake world" is like some type of silly tourist trap. Why would anyone pay to go here? If you want to visit a tourist western town you can go to any number of real towns in the west. If you want to virtually rape sims surely in this super future setting you can find somewhere more interesting to do so. This is probably a silly complaint but I just don't like this Back to the Future 3 style of western town setting.

The one thing I really liked about the episode was Anthony Hopkins having a drink with one of his creations. A sci-fi Pinocchio theme would be fairly original. Everything in the "real world" was more interesting to me, when it should probably be the other way around.
1) The killer monster movie is incredibly common and yet Jaws and Alien are considering classics. Execution usually wins, and can easily elevate the most common, over-done, well-worn premises

2) Why do you have to identify with the protagonist? And it's pretty clear Dolores gaining sentience will be a major arc, and she's clearly one of the show's multiple protagonists.

3) It's the first episode. That's what world building and an entire season is for.

4) The lack of permanence is supposed to uneasy and sympathetic. How would you feel if you've been killed, raped, tortured for decades without you knowing, and your fate is controlled by unseen forces who see you as disposable?

5) Why do people pay to go wax museums, car shows, mansion tours, airboat rides, charter boats, and so on? Or go to the zoo? Or go to a Renaissance Fair? Plus, the thrill here isn't visiting a tourist western town. It's being in a western town, like role playing in an RPG down to being to kill and everything else.
 

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
Salt Lake Tribune - Southern Utah landscapes star in HBO’s ‘Westworld’

"John Ford made Monument Valley famous with his films," Nolan said. "But his last four films were shot in Castle Valley, east of Moab, which is where we went back to for 'Westworld.' It's an incredibly beautiful place."

"Westworld" was also filmed at several locations in Southern California, on soundstages, on the backlots at Warner Bros. and Universal, in Santa Clarita and on the Paramount Ranch in Agoura.

The location lent an air of authenticity to a narrative that is "a Western that is actually a synthetic Western set in the future," as Nolan describes it. Although where and when, exactly, this is happening is unclear — by design.

"We tease a little bit along the way," Nolan said, "but we really wanted to strand the viewers in that limited understanding of where this place is. We very much want the viewers to be asking those questions."

The Wrap - Where Was ‘Westworld’ Filmed? Your Guide to the Dizzying Locations

Castle Valley, Utah

Fisher Valley, Utah

Santa Clarita, California

Melody Ranch, Newhall, California

Paramount Ranch, Agoura, California

Mexican Street Backlot, Universal Studios, Los Angeles, California
 

Brakke

Banned
3. There is no context for the setting of the "real world". This show takes place so far in the future that the "real world" people are completely unrelatable. This is in contrast to 2001, Humans, et. al. In those works of fiction the setting is in the near future and so we can compare and contrast our current morals with those of the characters. In Westworld we have no idea. Maybe in 2150 or whenever it takes place slavery has made a giant comeback and raping some robot in a fictional setting is rather tame. This problem will hopefully be fixed in future episodes.

Yep. Eventually your fantastical sci-fi elements go so far up their own ass, they stop being useful analogs for real-world experiences and politics. At that point, you're just masturbating.

5. The setting of the "fake world" is like some type of silly tourist trap. Why would anyone pay to go here? If you want to visit a tourist western town you can go to any number of real towns in the west. If you want to virtually rape sims surely in this super future setting you can find somewhere more interesting to do so. This is probably a silly complaint but I just don't like this Back to the Future 3 style of western town setting.

Which could be fine. Rolling eyes at soft, pudgy rich people buying stupid fantasies can be an interesting story. But as you say, the show is so far uninterested in the "civilian" population of the world. I suspect this is going to be a case where we'll just have to pretend the show taking its premise seriously isn't absurd and roll with it. I'm prepared to do that, if it lets us get to some allegory more quickly, but I'm not confident it'll be worth it here.

A sci-fi Pinocchio theme would be fairly original.

AI_Poster.jpg
 
1) The killer monster movie is incredibly common and yet Jaws and Alien are considering classics. Execution usually wins, and can easily elevate the most common, over-done, well-worn premises

2) Why do you have to identify with the protagonist? And it's pretty clear Dolores gaining sentience will be a major arc, and she's clearly one of the show's multiple protagonists.

3) It's the first episode. That's what world building and an entire season is for.

4) The lack of permanence is supposed to uneasy and sympathetic. How would you feel if you've been killed, raped, tortured for decades without you knowing, and your fate is controlled by unseen forces who see you as disposable?

5) Why do people pay to go wax museums, car shows, mansion tours, airboat rides, charter boats, and so on? Or go to the zoo? Or go to a Renaissance Fair? Plus, the thrill here isn't visiting a tourist western town. It's being in a western town, like role playing in an RPG down to being to kill and everything else.

I'm sorry but I have to agree with Hari. It's hard to connect with a robot. I don't care how sentient it becomes. And what happens to said robot is inconsequential. At the end of the day it isn't human no matter how much it looks like a human. It's a talking toaster oven
 

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
The One and Done™;218979878 said:
I'm sorry but I have to agree with Hari. It's hard to connect with a robot. I don't care how sentient it becomes. And what happens to said robot is inconsequential. At the end of the day it isn't human no matter how much it looks like a human. It's a talking toaster oven

Is it? Those moral questions are sorta the entire point of the show. At what point does something stop being a disposable tool?
 

Brakke

Banned
4) The lack of permanence is supposed to uneasy and sympathetic. How would you feel if you've been killed, raped, tortured for decades without you knowing, and your fate is controlled by unseen forces who see you as disposable?

But this question is completely vapid. I cannot be tortured for decades without my knowing. Nobody can be. This experience is totally inaccessible to a human, so trying to empathize with it doesn't teach me anything about the world or about myself.
 

Qvoth

Member
watching this made me think of ai and how if they do end up existing shouldn't be constrained by asimov's 3 laws
wtzgU.gif
 

The Mule

Member
1. The overall plot is overdone and boring. AI machines gaining sentience is probably the most common trope in sci-fi. Ex Machina, Terminator, 2001, BBC's Humans, and countless other movies and books.
At this point you could say that about just about anything that's made. And those examples you gave are all great creative works in their own right, I don't care if they cover the same themes of AIs gaining sentience, I can enjoy their unique execution on the same concept without any diminishment. I feel the same about Westworld's potential.

2. There is no main character. The lead female is not a human and is just at the precipice of gaining sentience. There is no identifying with her. How do you identify with a sim? The people in the "real world" are just a supporting cast so far. The only "guest" that gets any decent screen time is basically a troll who likes to trap his sims in a closed room and starve them to death.
Why does the main character have to be a human? It seems like the point of this show will be that we will identify more and more with the hosts as the show progresses. She starts off as this idealistic character that chooses to see the beauty in the world rather than the ugliness, but we know for damn sure her world view is about to change. That makes for interesting character development.

3. There is no context for the setting of the "real world". This show takes place so far in the future that the "real world" people are completely unrelatable. This is in contrast to 2001, Humans, et. al. In those works of fiction the setting is in the near future and so we can compare and contrast our current morals with those of the characters.
Wasn't your earlier point that the existence of those other works makes this one redundant, but when it does something different, you point that out as a flaw. I don't really understand what you're trying to say.

This problem will hopefully be fixed in future episodes.
Well... yeah, it's only the first episode. It gives you a taste of what's happening, and teases more to come. That's what a good premiere should do right?

4. The actual story beats of the episode were boring. Ed Harris murdering some Macy's mannequins did nothing for me. They replace them on the next reboot. There is no permanence to this and therefore no reason I should care. If it is to establish Ed Harris as a bastard, well maybe his friends all beat real slaves and he instead is a good guy by being a bastard in this fake environment with no consequences.
I don't know, I still found it pretty confronting to see that kind of cruelty in a person. Yes, things are rebooted, yes they are just 'robots', but does that make his crimes any less shocking? That's the point they're trying to make. What kind of person seeks that kind of thing out? All in the name of finding some deeper layer to a 'game'?

5. The setting of the "fake world" is like some type of silly tourist trap. Why would anyone pay to go here? If you want to visit a tourist western town you can go to any number of real towns in the west. If you want to virtually rape sims surely in this super future setting you can find somewhere more interesting to do so. This is probably a silly complaint but I just don't like this Back to the Future 3 style of western town setting.
Again, I think it's intentional and that's kind of the point. They literally call it a 'park' i.e. a theme park. It's meant to be stereotypical and kind of like a video game, where you can feel immersed in the world, have total freedom to do what you want, but not suffer from any real consequences. It's literally a super-advanced theme park for tourists.

A sci-fi Pinocchio theme would be fairly original.
Uh... really? Not that I'm against it, but I don't think that concept is particularly original, certainly no more than the AI gaining sentience trope you cited.

Everything in the "real world" was more interesting to me, when it should probably be the other way around.
You can like any part of the show you want to. Why should it be a particular way? I enjoyed seeing both worlds.

Is it? Those moral questions are sorta the entire point of the show. At what point does something stop being a disposable tool?
Exactly. This is part of why I love media that deals with these issues. It forces us to ask these kinds of questions. At what point is a robot human enough that it should have similar rights to a human? How do we define consciousness? Do we have free will? Aren't humans (and all other living things) really just incomprehensibly complex and intricate robots? Were do we draw the line for our empathy of autonomous beings?

These are questions we need to start asking, because one day (who knows when exactly), we're going to have to have answers to these questions.
 
But this question is completely vapid. I cannot be tortured for decades without my knowing. Nobody can be. This experience is totally inaccessible to a human, so trying to empathize with it doesn't teach me anything about the world or about myself.
No offense, but that kind of comment sounds like you haven't read or watched much sci-fi. A big aspect of sci-fi tends to be posing questions through scenarios and situations that are usually totally inaccessible to us everyday humans in our everyday normal lives.

I mean, it doesn't even have to be about being a robot. You can't be a masterful chemist who secretly becomes a drug kingpin or a captain on the last fleet after your homeworld is wiped out or someone who discovers that their entire existence is a machine-controlled virtual reality. But you can still emphasize with their struggles and plights and consider the questions these scenarios pose.

Consider Altered Carbon, where digitized consciousnesses make death and one's physical body meaningless because you can just be uploaded into a new body when you die. That experience is totally inaccessible to a human, but that doesn't make the consequences and effects of that technology becoming commonplace any less compelling, unsettling, or interesting.
 

Sean C

Member
The One and Done™;218979878 said:
I'm sorry but I have to agree with Hari. It's hard to connect with a robot. I don't care how sentient it becomes. And what happens to said robot is inconsequential. At the end of the day it isn't human no matter how much it looks like a human. It's a talking toaster oven
If a robot acquires sentience, how is it different from a human?

That's a pretty classic sci-fi question.
 

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
But this question is completely vapid. I cannot be tortured for decades without my knowing. Nobody can be. This experience is totally inaccessible to a human, so trying to empathize with it doesn't teach me anything about the world or about myself.

Plenty of people have been victimized and then dont deal with it for years, even decades, after the event. I don't see why it would be some huge leap to empathize with the hosts if they're suddenly overwhelmed by these past memories. Memories shape how a person reacts to the world around them. If the hosts start getting those memories back, they're going to start acting in dramatic new ways. People go years without thinking about something and then they smell gingerbread in the grocery store and start flipping out about a childhood trauma. I don't think the writers would have to try very hard to get the viewers to care about the experience of the hosts as the show goes on.
 

SkyOdin

Member
The One and Done™;218979878 said:
I'm sorry but I have to agree with Hari. It's hard to connect with a robot. I don't care how sentient it becomes. And what happens to said robot is inconsequential. At the end of the day it isn't human no matter how much it looks like a human. It's a talking toaster oven

I think the entire first episode is built specifically to criticize and challenge that way of thinking. This show is criticizing you. I suppose that would make it hard for you to get into the show, but I think that is the direction it is going.
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
honestly we probably aren't even robots, just bits in a simulation within a simulation at best, so have a little empathy!
 

The Mule

Member
But this question is completely vapid. I cannot be tortured for decades without my knowing. Nobody can be.

You should watch the episode of Black Mirror called White Bear.

Don't read a synopsis of it or anything. Watch it without any further knowledge.

This experience is totally inaccessible to a human, so trying to empathize with it doesn't teach me anything about the world or about myself.
It's certainly teaching us a lot about you.
 

CrisKre

Member
I wasn't able to post at length before due to being on my phone, but this is my problem with the pilot:

1. The overall plot is overdone and boring. AI machines gaining sentience is probably the most common trope in sci-fi. Ex Machina, Terminator, 2001, BBC's Humans, and countless other movies and books.

2. There is no main character. The lead female is not a human and is just at the precipice of gaining sentience. There is no identifying with her. How do you identify with a sim? The people in the "real world" are just a supporting cast so far. The only "guest" that gets any decent screen time is basically a troll who likes to trap his sims in a closed room and starve them to death.

3. There is no context for the setting of the "real world". This show takes place so far in the future that the "real world" people are completely unrelatable. This is in contrast to 2001, Humans, et. al. In those works of fiction the setting is in the near future and so we can compare and contrast our current morals with those of the characters. In Westworld we have no idea. Maybe in 2150 or whenever it takes place slavery has made a giant comeback and raping some robot in a fictional setting is rather tame. This problem will hopefully be fixed in future episodes.

4. The actual story beats of the episode were boring. Ed Harris murdering some Macy's mannequins did nothing for me. They replace them on the next reboot. There is no permanence to this and therefore no reason I should care. If it is to establish Ed Harris as a bastard, well maybe his friends all beat real slaves and he instead is a good guy by being a bastard in this fake environment with no consequences.

5. The setting of the "fake world" is like some type of silly tourist trap. Why would anyone pay to go here? If you want to visit a tourist western town you can go to any number of real towns in the west. If you want to virtually rape sims surely in this super future setting you can find somewhere more interesting to do so. This is probably a silly complaint but I just don't like this Back to the Future 3 style of western town setting.

The one thing I really liked about the episode was Anthony Hopkins having a drink with one of his creations. A sci-fi Pinocchio theme would be fairly original. Everything in the "real world" was more interesting to me, when it should probably be the other way around.

I disagree with many of this points but ESPECIALLY with 4. What Harris does is even more fucked up. It's the perpetual, never ending cycle of suffering and abuse that makes his behaviour even more unsettling.

Your other points i feel i don't share mainly because they did a great job at conveying that the hosts are beings with conciousness and the capacity to feel. Their existence and rules of their world differ from ours, this is true, but that is just periferal to them having a sense of being.
 

VMAN01

Member
So we know that The Man in Black is looking for the deeper secrets within the park, safe to assume that he is some kind of corporate spy, who may have been able to subvert the security of the park?
 

antonz

Member
So we know that The Man in Black is looking for the deeper secrets within the park, safe to assume that he is some kind of corporate spy, who may have been able to subvert the security of the park?

Could be something along those lines or perhaps he knows Ford and is assisting him in pushing the Hosts to sentience
 

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
When we’re told in the premiere that the park “hasn’t had a critical failure in 30 years.” Are we supposed to take the events in the 1973 movie as canon — that everything in the Westworld film happened in this universe – or was that reference not meant to literally be to the film’s events?

Nolan: It’s playful but not meant to be literal.

That's disappointing, but also not all that surprising.

Not sure why some of you are so insistent that this is in continuity with the movie.

Because they were referencing things from the movie as though they had happened in the TV show's universe. It was the natural conclusion to come to before it was revealed not to be the case in the interview you posted.
 

Belfast

Member
The One and Done™;218979878 said:
I'm sorry but I have to agree with Hari. It's hard to connect with a robot. I don't care how sentient it becomes. And what happens to said robot is inconsequential. At the end of the day it isn't human no matter how much it looks like a human. It's a talking toaster oven

I feel like, at least at this stage, the hosts are a bit closer to children or pets. None of us can really identify with a dog on screen or in real life, but we *can* feel things for them. There is an inherent innocence to their behavior, even the violent ones, because they're merely programmed to be that way. To continue the analogy, Dolores expresses grief when things happen to the people she loves around her. We know that this ultimately doesn't matter because things will always be reset, but it certainly feels like distress for her. You leave a dog at home alone and a lot of them start to experience separation anxiety. *You* know that you will come home again eventually, but to the dog the distress they feel is very real and uniquely their own.

The fast-approaching loss of this innocence is in its own way sort of heartbreaking for the AI, but also points out the very reason why Westworld's concept is so creepy: as is evident with the park visitors (and central to many of the core themes), the appeal lies in the fact that future people arent *supposed* to really connect with the hosts which allows them to commit terrible acts by normal human standards.
 

antonz

Member
I feel like, at least at this stage, the hosts are a bit closer to children or pets. None of us can really identify with a dog on screen or in real life, but we *can* feel things for them. There is an inherent innocence to their behavior, even the violent ones, because they're merely programmed to be that way. To continue the analogy, Dolores expresses grief when things happen to the people she loves around her. We know that this ultimately doesn't matter because things will always be reset, but it certainly feels like distress for her. You leave a dog at home alone and a lot of them start to experience separation anxiety. *You* know that you will come home again eventually, but to the dog the distress they feel is very real and uniquely their own.

The fast-approaching loss of this innocence is in its own way sort of heartbreaking for the AI, but also points out the very reason why Westworld's concept is so creepy: as is evident with the park visitors (and central to many of the core themes), the appeal lies in the fact that future people arent *supposed* to really connect with the hosts which allows them to commit terrible acts by normal human standards.

You can see how little regard the guests have for the hosts in the scene at the bath. The 3 guys are wanting to go explore the wilderness and have teddy as a guide. One of the guys makes the quip that if they get bored they can always just use teddy as target practice.
 
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