Ok but the knife being left behind really seems like they intended for him to escape. "You like games, now play one of ours"
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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
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Ok but the knife being left behind really seems like they intended for him to escape. "You like games, now play one of ours"
Good point. I forgot about the hospital scene.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
The construction workers and waiters are bots, why wouldn't the rest of the staff be (ie doctors)?
The construction workers aren't bots, the waiters are bots because the restaurant is part of the park, they're part of the period setting. Unless you mean the bots doing the digging and stuff, that was just Ford taking a piss on Piss Writer's narrative plan. The actual construction crew helping Ford build his new narrative setting are Delos employees, not bots.
Yeah but that could easily be Ford programming the hosts to do that. Like he gave him a potential out but he just as easily could have died. Ford also knows that mib is essentially seeking out a game that has mortal consequences. So I guess maybe not an outright murder attempt, but a close call where if mib isn't skilled enough to get the knife and cut the rope while being hanged, he loses, and it looks like a suicide if Ford wipes Teddy and the entrance host lady.
So, Ford wants to give MIB the game he is seeking, but also wouldn't lose any sleep if he dies in the process.
Maybe he is just using bots from his story line to do construction? Anyone but Bernard being an host would feel a bit stretching.
That was just him experiencing the mess of his memories coming back.
With the hosts recollecting memories with perfect clarity, it seems that their recollections of them blend together with the 'present'. For instance, a lot of Dolores's memories have her doing things that she wouldn't have actually done at the time - being confused at her clothes, her location, her injuries or lack thereof, etc - that make sense only as an 'amnesiac' Dolores reliving a memory she didn't know she had. The stuff that happened in Bernard's memory jumble was mostly the same thing, except he was fully aware of what was happening, which gave him the added control of being able to do things like get rid of the hospital staff and talk to his son.
Here's what I think. Teddy and Dolores somehow went "crazy" and slaughtered Escalante, including the limited staff that was working in the park at that time. It culminated in executing Arnold. This may have been orchestrated by Ford since Arnold's attitude about the hosts was a threat to Ford's thinking.
Now in the present, he has orchestrated MiB and Dolores back to Escalante, and Teddy will probably be reborn and arrive as "Wyatt," and they will attempt to re-enact the execution of Arnold with MiB in his place since he is trying to uncover Arnold's plans, which is again threatening Ford. As this is happening, Dolores will be flipping between the present and the past timelines 34 years ago when she killed Arnold, and 30 years ago with William and Logan finding her, which will be how we learn what exactly happened to Arnold and what happened with William that led him to become the MiB, all in one crazy decade spanning climactic event. In the end Dolores will probably not go through with it upon realizing that MiB is William and that she is truly self aware and not under Ford's control, and perhaps Ford will take Arnold's place in the execution.
A winner is you. This is probably exactly how things are going to play out. And it could be pretty amazing.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
This would be baller as fuck
No. He could have killed him a hundred times over and still staged it as a suicide... like he did with Theresa.
He was in no real danger of death in that scene.
Westworld has me conflicted. Whether being a predictable show makes it bad show. We all saw the twists of this show coming from a mile away. The fact that we saw them means this show is planned out fairly well and has a somewhat consistent* tone since episode 1. I'm not sure whether that makes it good or bad though.
Or being part of a discussion where you break down scenes and theories make the show predictable.
lol, I didn't see any of it coming until I stepped into this thread, but once you pay closer attention the signs are very obvious. To me that's better than twists that come out of nowhere just for shock value with no foreshadowing.
You sure you would see all these twists if you wouldn't visit discussion boards about the show?
Normally you would probably not and catch all the hints during a rewatch.
Its a good show, its just that the internet is a pretty crazy thing. I think most popular shows that try to tease its audience along with the allure of a good mystery will find that the fans will talk and ponder and many times, accurately predict what comes next. We also have screenshots and photoshop and little tools to help us pick things out. I think this is the way good shows get consumed now. They are analyzed and torn down to the studs because people love them enough to do it.
Raven117
Member
This. It makes it entirely more fun to know that your attention to detail and piecing it all together is rewarded...
It's not that predictable. Each of us individually would have missed out on a lot if we weren't reading the cumulative efforts of hundreds of people around the Internet dissecting every scene of every episode. Go back to earlier in this thread and see how many of us didn't even catch the logo differences until a few other people started pointing it out. My first realization of multiple time periods was from reading this thread around episode 3 or 4 and I'm surely not the only one who missed that. I also didn't spot that Dolores was on the train on her own at the end of that one episode with Lawrence and that she was taking the same trip at two different times.
There was that one season 1 twist that made sense but wasn't really suspected in Mr Robot.
I think my main criticism for the show is that we as the audience, we find out the reveals and the answers (for the most part), but when characters do, they're either killed off or reset. So by doing that, there's not really any satisfaction in learning these things because the characters are taken out in some way in the process and so the revelation has no true meaning beyond our own knowledge.
The performances and the wonderful monologues and gorgeous setting are top notch, but this fact really hurts the overall show for me.
The performances and the wonderful monologues and gorgeous setting are top notch, but this fact really hurts the overall show for me.
oktarb
Member
So I just don't get the Bernard reveal. He's revealed to be a Host version of Arnold. Looks like him, acts like him. Arnold is a founder with pictures floating around of him. Staff in the facility talks about him often. How the hell has no one made the connection that Bernard is a replicant version of Arnold?!
Also why don't the guests have a safe word? "You know what..I'm tied to a chair and you're stabbing the girl I dig. I'm not digging this anymore. "KiWi!"" poof the hosts freeze and a crew extracts you.
This theme park has the worst protocols, setup and safety features in the history on theme parks. Rick people don't like getting punched , picked on and possibly killed.
Also why don't the guests have a safe word? "You know what..I'm tied to a chair and you're stabbing the girl I dig. I'm not digging this anymore. "KiWi!"" poof the hosts freeze and a crew extracts you.
This theme park has the worst protocols, setup and safety features in the history on theme parks. Rick people don't like getting punched , picked on and possibly killed.
Zoe
Member
But there aren't pictures floating around. Staff don't talk about him often.
When Elsie discovered the thug was talking to an "Arnold", she had no idea who he was talking to.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
I'm still bothered by hosts getting shot up, cleaned up and repaired overnight and then getting added to the mix the next day.
Unless now with all of these timeline shenanigans, I wasn't getting an accurate representation of the logistics earlier in the show.
But I'm imagining multiple people paying a week pass and some go off on overnight adventures (keeping the hosts in an extended loop/narrative) while others get involved in a saloon shootout where the fallen hosts are reset the next day. Screws up continuity if that's how it works.
Unless now with all of these timeline shenanigans, I wasn't getting an accurate representation of the logistics earlier in the show.
But I'm imagining multiple people paying a week pass and some go off on overnight adventures (keeping the hosts in an extended loop/narrative) while others get involved in a saloon shootout where the fallen hosts are reset the next day. Screws up continuity if that's how it works.
Yeah the Arnold reveal would have been cooler if it hadn't been spoiled by speculation/educated guesses/theories online. I hadn't even seen much of the theorizing, but as soon as Bernard was revealed as a host, I came here to see what people thought about it and it seemed the cat was out of the bag online.
I mean it seems like everything is getting tied up in a neat bow by the season finale but I have a feeling it will disappoint. Could have been a cool reboot of the film, but I feel as a show it feels too dragged out. The internet ruined what would be the main hook of the show by dissecting every frame and the show is trying to be too smart for the audience even though the internet is trying to figure it all out as soon as possible. That is the drawback of having a well crafted show with such an emphasis on the mystery, all the attempts at foreshadowing end up being the show revealing it's hand too early and the main plot not feeling as complex but rather straightforward when you see all the moving parts. Plus a lot of the flaws about the premise still bother me. I think the first season has been decent enough to recommend and I may watch it again to see what I might have missed but I don't think I'll stick around for a second season.
I mean it seems like everything is getting tied up in a neat bow by the season finale but I have a feeling it will disappoint. Could have been a cool reboot of the film, but I feel as a show it feels too dragged out. The internet ruined what would be the main hook of the show by dissecting every frame and the show is trying to be too smart for the audience even though the internet is trying to figure it all out as soon as possible. That is the drawback of having a well crafted show with such an emphasis on the mystery, all the attempts at foreshadowing end up being the show revealing it's hand too early and the main plot not feeling as complex but rather straightforward when you see all the moving parts. Plus a lot of the flaws about the premise still bother me. I think the first season has been decent enough to recommend and I may watch it again to see what I might have missed but I don't think I'll stick around for a second season.
I can't fathom why people still think the William Dolores thing happens 30 years before the Man in Black thing.
It doesn't make ANY sense. MiB actually tells how the robots weren't all that real and completely different back then (made of different stuff too!) plus we see in Dolores' flashbacks how the robots were way more "roboty" back then... and fucking old man Ford is walking near the buried chruch a FEW times so it can't be 30 years ago.
The William and MiB stories probably don't take place at the same time - but they aren't the same person! So it doesn't have to be 30 years before!
It can definitely be that the MiB storyline happens at least a year after the William one, but not 30. I guess we will see the connection soon...the way I'm seeing it - the MiB timeline happens after the new narrative is completed and it includes the whole buried church town.
Hell, we might even see MiB kill William while searching for Dolores in the farm (and that will explain how his wife's photo got there).
BTW, it was fun to finally know that the "maze" is meant for robots, not humans, therefore they keep telling the MiB that it "isn't meant for him".
It doesn't make ANY sense. MiB actually tells how the robots weren't all that real and completely different back then (made of different stuff too!) plus we see in Dolores' flashbacks how the robots were way more "roboty" back then... and fucking old man Ford is walking near the buried chruch a FEW times so it can't be 30 years ago.
The William and MiB stories probably don't take place at the same time - but they aren't the same person! So it doesn't have to be 30 years before!
It can definitely be that the MiB storyline happens at least a year after the William one, but not 30. I guess we will see the connection soon...the way I'm seeing it - the MiB timeline happens after the new narrative is completed and it includes the whole buried church town.
Hell, we might even see MiB kill William while searching for Dolores in the farm (and that will explain how his wife's photo got there).
BTW, it was fun to finally know that the "maze" is meant for robots, not humans, therefore they keep telling the MiB that it "isn't meant for him".
Captain Zyrain
Member
Run from this thread, NOW!
We literally JUST saw how they were more robot-y in Williams timeline.
Are you trolling... I can't tell
Bruh, we just had a scene showing Dolores get cut open in front of William and her insides being entirely mechanical instead of organic like the modern hosts. We saw Ford open up the child host of himself and reveal the mechanical face, but from the outside you couldn't tell the difference. The old hosts were behaviorally more or less identical to the current hosts barring minor software updates.
The church town has been buried for 30 years. It was used for testing before the park was opened, buried prior to opening, remained buried for 30 years, than excavated for Ford's new storyline in the present.
might wanna stay out of this thread until you catch up, because of spoilers. Trust me on this
I'm guessing so that he could kill Logan?
With hosts around the samaritan reflex would kick in and stop him from hurting Logan
Now, I agree, killing Logan is super extreme, but William seems a bit off the deep end
Edit: Maybe the incident is Logan ends up killed by William but William makes it look like a host did it, he blackmails Delos into giving him ownership in the park to keep quiet
StopMakingSense
Member
That was my interpretation as well, especially with the dismembering.
I imagine/wonder if the mechanical hosts in their dead state were able to employ their samaritan response, in a way that biological hosts might not be able to with a sufficient loss of blood.
Similar to how Delores was able to reawaken/not die after suffering a 'fatal' knife wound.
Run from this thread, NOW!
We literally JUST saw how they were more robot-y in Williams timeline.
Are you trolling... I can't tell
Wait wat :O
I might've totally missed that "opening up Dolores" scene, oh shit
I was talking mainly from the bodies of the people William killed on his rampage etc.
But god damn. Not sure in anything anymore D:
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
Talking about it online a lot and reading peoples theories that probably also contain leaks passed off as their own thoughts certainly help this feeling though. I got Arnold=Bernard and or Arnold=robot, but I don't think I wouldve figured out the timeline on my own. I know this from listening to friends that don't forum talk about it.
I actually wonder if talking about shows online diminishes the enjoyment a little.
Love the show though, great ep
Logan with all his resources and contacts didn't even know his name nor have a picture of him just a couple years after the park opened. William himself was surprised to even hear that Ford supposedly had a partner.
I think the only one who could potentially know Bernard = Arnold in the present is the MiB/William himself. But it's evident that he has allowed Ford to do whatever he wants and he kept Ford in power for those 30 years against the wishes of the rest of the board. I bet he even helped keep Arnold buried in history because that whole business could cause the park troubles in the future if the truth ever came to light. And also because he wanted to play Arnold's game himself.
Even the bodies of the androids William killed were more robot-y. There was a shot of a dismembered leg with exposed gears and whatnot.
Sometimes I wonder if people have eyes.
I think the Samaritan thing will still kick in. Teddy was "weak and half-dead" but sprung to life with swift speed and superhuman strength to stop MIB from threatening Ford. The hosts only play dead for the sake of the theme park.
The bolded is silly and preposterous
Which is nonsense because the Milk Man was walking around and functional and drinking milk even with a perforated esophagus.
The show basically doesn't have a model for what it takes to "kill" a host. Sometimes but not always they can survive physical trauma humans can't; precise damage to the frontal lobe "kills" them, personality-wise, but general damage to the frontal lobe doesn't?
It'd be cool if "killed" hosts were just playing dead but if that was the case they wouldn't be carting around corpses through their abattoir.
Captain Zyrain
Member
I think the Samaritan thing will still kick in. Teddy was "weak and half-dead" but sprung to life with swift speed and superhuman strength to stop MIB from threatening Ford. The hosts only play dead for the sake of the theme park.
The bolded is silly and preposterous
Do we even know if the Samaritan reflex exists in Williams timeline? Could be a more recent revision. I can't recall it showing up previously (though I could be, and probably am, wrong).
Well, I think theoretically they could wake up dead hosts and have them walk to repair, but carting out the dead would be less immersion breaking if any guests are around/awake. It might also be problematic/messy if organs and blood is spilling out everywhere while they are walking around. I think the hosts are theoretically invincible if they are malfunctioning or the Samaritan reflex is activated (Nolan saying they don't require oxygen so the blood is just there for effect and realism), unless you chop all their limbs off to immobilize them. They are physically stable enough to move around even with their organs shot up, as a person would be.
Yes, it does. Hosts go into deceased mode if they receive trauma that would kill a real person. The milk man was malfunctioning and therefore would not stay dead after being riddled with bullets. He's an exception.
MIB basically did a blood hack to keep Teddy alive by tricking some internal monitoring system into thinking he still had enough blood inside of him and delaying "death-sleep mode". He was still on the verge of death but then Ford said something (a command) that shook off his death-sluggishness and sent him onward in his journey with MIB.
Exactly. I actually hadn't watched the show or read anything about it until this past Friday. I watched the first 5 episodes. After episode 5 or 6 I went onto Reddit and started reading some threads where the idea of
Bernard = host/arnold and William = MiB
So if not for the internet I would have been genuinely surprised at the big 'reveals'
William = MiB seems all but assured
Cornballer
Member
- THR: 'Westworld' Director Michelle MacLaren Breaks Down Challenging Arnold Reveal and William's Terrifying Turn
Also:
- SlashFilm review
- Warming Glow discussion
- New Yorker review
More via the link.
Also:
- SlashFilm review
- Warming Glow discussion
- New Yorker review