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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
StopMakingSense
Member
It's more like would people really know who Steve Wozniak was if he died in the middle of making the Apple 2.
Ford is Steve Jobs.
The Board is the board of directors of Delos, who had nothing to do with the park until after the time of Arnold's death AFAIK
Maybe he's as fiercely protective of his private life as Ike Perlmutter; Head of Marvel, only one publicly released photo of him from like 30 years ago.
But that would mean the nuhosts aren't "identical" to humans inside. Human physiology doesn't support "shaking off" a failure of the circulatory system.
Did the blood magic only work because Teddy is an old host? Why does the show even introduce this host categorization. They shoulda phased the old ones out, it's a lot easier to run a lab that doesn't require metalworkers and fleshworkers.
Why did they even invent nuhosts in the first place?
More like people knowing who Steve Wozniak is. Most don't
Then imagine if jobs snubbed him out early before apples success, and he died, and ensured the history books did not mention them
I can buy it
oktarb
Member
Touche, agreed. I'm just saying a whole company would not forget what Arnold looks like when they reference Arnold's code left and right. I'd buy it if Ford made Bernard look differently to hide his incarnation. But man, someone would be like "ummm our LEAD programmer looks like Arnold. I thought he died...?"
Delos didn't get involved with the park until well after Arnold's death though.
Switch Back 9
a lot of my threads involve me fucking up somehow. Perhaps I'm a moron?
That's what I assumed. He seems like someone who's more interested in Hosts than actual people, therefor shutting out the rest of the world sounds plausible.
StopMakingSense
Member
Also it's been suggested that there was a major ownership shift at some point very early on in the park's history, but probably after Arnold's death (or because of Arnolds death?).
Zoe
Member
They* are only referencing it left and right because it was JUST discovered.
* (really just a few higher ups)
Yeah, if Elsie didn't push it in episode 3 after reviewing the video of Walter speaking to "Arnold", no one would still even know Arnold's name other than MiB. Also, I don't think there's a lot of oldtimers left to identify that Bernard == Arnold from 35 years ago. Elsie is pretty much the 2nd in command of Bernard's division and she's a millennial (or whatever the equivalent they call them in future 20XX) and she had no idea who Arnold was nor that his code was being referenced in the hosts until she started digging further and then got promptly killed for it.
Your confusing the general public from actual employees.
So it's still a reach.
That being said it sounded like not many folks that still work there are aware of what the park was before the corporate take over.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
Okay, commentary as the show rolls. I'm doing "watching", I'm just going to live-comment on how stupid this is.
Oh hey, Maeve is being tested by Bernard. She notices and the progress of last episode is undone by minute two. Oh and look, setting a host to max INT gives them Ford power (or Arnold, as we figure out). This isn't cute, this is literally just there to validate that entire dumbass Maeve plotline to immediately undo Bernard's character as changed just five minutes ago if you binged episodes.
Oh look, Clementine. So that's what that was for, how convenient. But now Bernard can hack her, whereas he somehow couldn't avoid Maeve. How so? Wouldn't a host be prevented from changing other hosts to being able to hurt others? Three laws, violaton on prime directive, you know: LOGIC? And stop showing us Bernard choking Elsie when it's obvious he stopped before she died. Arnold inception, baby. Remember kids, you heard it here first.
Cool, Logan's back. This could be pretty neat- OH NO NO NO AH GODDAMMIT. As soon as Logan reached for a picture, I knew which one it was going to be. "no no no no" was my actual, real life response. Fuck this show. Well, they did already call it out last week with "are you real?""of course I'm real", so I guess Dolores 'waking up' was about to happen anyway.
And we're back on Maeve, now full on embracing that Lylith / devil type role. Aaaw, that means Arnold is god, how cute. Adversary is going to win then, because fuck Arnold and burning down the park. This shit needs more seasons after all. Prepare to be disappointed. Like how kicking over a lamp now causes a freeby pyrotechnic effect, that was previously shown to be a specific command by central control. Isn't this show fun in how inconsistent it is with itself? Who needs rules, eh? Or tension? Or story? Pffffff.
Scene transfer on fire, scene transfer on liquid. Hey the editor on this episode knows his job. Neat. I won't hatewatch on you, editor. (and director. This really is fine work on that end)
"You'll find him where you found him first". Oh look, we're going back in circles. Like a maaaaaaaaaaaaze, yes I fucking get it. God... or Arnold. Whatever. "don't you remember?" ah, Teddy is Wyatt, yeeeeaah. Everybody was Wyatt-dancing, tudududu. Ford is trying to kill Arnold for good with his new storyline as Wyatt, then? I can't imagine he's trying to free the hosts now, for some reason. Oh right, bicameral mind, individual self splitting from proto-god by means of chatter between 'gods'. Everybody is 'Wyatt', everybody is Arnold's bicameral code. Wonder if killing the Arnold code means destroying all the hosts with it.
Okay, the hell is wrong with these safety rules? Would Teddy have raised up and cut the rope? Eh, at least that was a nice moment. Good job, Harris. Aaaaand it's immediately ruined by having daughter dearest show up. Dun dun dun...
AND THERE IT IS. I "wonder" if Elsie is still alive? Cutting on rogue ghost nation to past "Billy butcher" (eh, let's just call him MiB at this point, I don't care. At least we now know when he cut open bots in the past) is just confusing though. Ho boy, people watching this without reading "theories" -aka preleaked info to smooth over fan response- are going to be so pissed when none of this shit will make any sense to them. Haha.
Hmm, at least Hopkins's scenes still deliver. Seriously, he's what saves this show from embarrassing mediocrity. Sorry Harris, I think you're great, but you're competing with a god of theater. At least we got a good scene out of the two. But why are a whole bunch of hosts simply abandoned in that facility? Well, at least we're full circle with Arnold now. Yaay.
and there's the picture. And the 'force awakens hand to cheek', despite being shot at an earlier time. It's also not a very human display, in my opinion. It seems degrading to offer a hand when a shoulder is needed. Both characters are female too to boot.
and there is MiB, and Bernard exit number two. Booyah. Do I hear three? Yes, because we already saw Dolores do the same, and she got repaired. So the B can't be dropped, yo. A, B, C? DEFGH
On to Finkle is Einhorn in the finale.
/end of hatewatch shitposting
I did 'call' Dolores killing A though. yay?
-removed this bit-
Also, we didn't eat Neanderthal (not for lack of trying, since we did -probably- eat the rest to a degree), we fucked 'em to death. Or more likely, Homo Sapiens murdered the men and raped the women until we wound up with the mild hybridization we observe today (3% of genes in Western European Caucasians, presumably). It's the fission-fusion process Jan Goodall observed with chimps, and humans do it to. Hope you like being a woman, because we're very much still the same.
Hello...ladies. #MyPresident
(I actually thought the same thing about hominids eating each other too, but the genetic similarity may make that a bit more dangerous than say, a chimp eating a human limb or a human eating a chimp, which is not without its own dangers. The fact that hybridization occurred at all means there must have been some limits on 'eating' where it triggered the moral universal rule of no cannibalism. But then other animals do it anyway, so shot in the dark here: we may have evolved that second role on cannibalism -first one is incest- because of there being multiple relatively similar hominids around in earlier times. Otherwise we would have no good reason to possess it and be able to expand it -eventually- into the concept of 'human' and 'humanity' when reaching self-awareness... ah, that may have been a remark in the bicameral mind somewhere then, I take it. Haven't read that book yet myself. Has anyone here actually read Julian Jayne's book by any chance? )
edit: on Elsie, we see the flashback, no death, and Bernard does not tell Ford about it. Ford may not be lying about saying he hasn't made Bernard hurt (many) people before. I could watch the preview and be instantly proven wrong, but I'm going to guess Ford is both magician and about to have his own curtain pulled away from him. I would be strange to give a character exactly what they want.
Oh hey, Maeve is being tested by Bernard. She notices and the progress of last episode is undone by minute two. Oh and look, setting a host to max INT gives them Ford power (or Arnold, as we figure out). This isn't cute, this is literally just there to validate that entire dumbass Maeve plotline to immediately undo Bernard's character as changed just five minutes ago if you binged episodes.
Oh look, Clementine. So that's what that was for, how convenient. But now Bernard can hack her, whereas he somehow couldn't avoid Maeve. How so? Wouldn't a host be prevented from changing other hosts to being able to hurt others? Three laws, violaton on prime directive, you know: LOGIC? And stop showing us Bernard choking Elsie when it's obvious he stopped before she died. Arnold inception, baby. Remember kids, you heard it here first.
Cool, Logan's back. This could be pretty neat- OH NO NO NO AH GODDAMMIT. As soon as Logan reached for a picture, I knew which one it was going to be. "no no no no" was my actual, real life response. Fuck this show. Well, they did already call it out last week with "are you real?""of course I'm real", so I guess Dolores 'waking up' was about to happen anyway.
And we're back on Maeve, now full on embracing that Lylith / devil type role. Aaaw, that means Arnold is god, how cute. Adversary is going to win then, because fuck Arnold and burning down the park. This shit needs more seasons after all. Prepare to be disappointed. Like how kicking over a lamp now causes a freeby pyrotechnic effect, that was previously shown to be a specific command by central control. Isn't this show fun in how inconsistent it is with itself? Who needs rules, eh? Or tension? Or story? Pffffff.
Scene transfer on fire, scene transfer on liquid. Hey the editor on this episode knows his job. Neat. I won't hatewatch on you, editor. (and director. This really is fine work on that end)
"You'll find him where you found him first". Oh look, we're going back in circles. Like a maaaaaaaaaaaaze, yes I fucking get it. God... or Arnold. Whatever. "don't you remember?" ah, Teddy is Wyatt, yeeeeaah. Everybody was Wyatt-dancing, tudududu. Ford is trying to kill Arnold for good with his new storyline as Wyatt, then? I can't imagine he's trying to free the hosts now, for some reason. Oh right, bicameral mind, individual self splitting from proto-god by means of chatter between 'gods'. Everybody is 'Wyatt', everybody is Arnold's bicameral code. Wonder if killing the Arnold code means destroying all the hosts with it.
Okay, the hell is wrong with these safety rules? Would Teddy have raised up and cut the rope? Eh, at least that was a nice moment. Good job, Harris. Aaaaand it's immediately ruined by having daughter dearest show up. Dun dun dun...
AND THERE IT IS. I "wonder" if Elsie is still alive? Cutting on rogue ghost nation to past "Billy butcher" (eh, let's just call him MiB at this point, I don't care. At least we now know when he cut open bots in the past) is just confusing though. Ho boy, people watching this without reading "theories" -aka preleaked info to smooth over fan response- are going to be so pissed when none of this shit will make any sense to them. Haha.
Hmm, at least Hopkins's scenes still deliver. Seriously, he's what saves this show from embarrassing mediocrity. Sorry Harris, I think you're great, but you're competing with a god of theater. At least we got a good scene out of the two. But why are a whole bunch of hosts simply abandoned in that facility? Well, at least we're full circle with Arnold now. Yaay.
and there's the picture. And the 'force awakens hand to cheek', despite being shot at an earlier time. It's also not a very human display, in my opinion. It seems degrading to offer a hand when a shoulder is needed. Both characters are female too to boot.
and there is MiB, and Bernard exit number two. Booyah. Do I hear three? Yes, because we already saw Dolores do the same, and she got repaired. So the B can't be dropped, yo. A, B, C? DEFGH
On to Finkle is Einhorn in the finale.
/end of hatewatch shitposting
I did 'call' Dolores killing A though. yay?
-removed this bit-
Also, we didn't eat Neanderthal (not for lack of trying, since we did -probably- eat the rest to a degree), we fucked 'em to death. Or more likely, Homo Sapiens murdered the men and raped the women until we wound up with the mild hybridization we observe today (3% of genes in Western European Caucasians, presumably). It's the fission-fusion process Jan Goodall observed with chimps, and humans do it to. Hope you like being a woman, because we're very much still the same.
Hello...ladies. #MyPresident
(I actually thought the same thing about hominids eating each other too, but the genetic similarity may make that a bit more dangerous than say, a chimp eating a human limb or a human eating a chimp, which is not without its own dangers. The fact that hybridization occurred at all means there must have been some limits on 'eating' where it triggered the moral universal rule of no cannibalism. But then other animals do it anyway, so shot in the dark here: we may have evolved that second role on cannibalism -first one is incest- because of there being multiple relatively similar hominids around in earlier times. Otherwise we would have no good reason to possess it and be able to expand it -eventually- into the concept of 'human' and 'humanity' when reaching self-awareness... ah, that may have been a remark in the bicameral mind somewhere then, I take it. Haven't read that book yet myself. Has anyone here actually read Julian Jayne's book by any chance? )
edit: on Elsie, we see the flashback, no death, and Bernard does not tell Ford about it. Ford may not be lying about saying he hasn't made Bernard hurt (many) people before. I could watch the preview and be instantly proven wrong, but I'm going to guess Ford is both magician and about to have his own curtain pulled away from him. I would be strange to give a character exactly what they want.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
If you need further proof that he's MiB, look at this interview with William about doing business for 15-7 years.
There it is. It begins!
BlastProcessing
Member
Walt Disney is actually a pretty good example of how partners can be easily forgotten. Have you ever heard of Ub Iwerks?
Doesn't look like Mickey Mouse to meWalt Disney is actually a pretty good example of how partners can be easily forgotten. Have you ever heard of Ub Iwerks?
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
Just because I didn't spell out my paranoid delusion before doesn't mean I didn't have it before. Doesn't mean it's true either. It's just a thought.
It's easy to be blind to the obvious when you're looking in the wrong direction (see the election). I also don't want to debate this moot thought any further. It's not relevant, and it doesn't look like anything to me.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
Photos of how young version of some company bigwig being recognizable or not, I always get a slight break of immersion when I see their fashion sense :> (not in-game in westworld but in delos)
Cuz i see fashion from 30/35 years back and the 80s/90s' fashion really doesn't look like our current standard, and these people are still wearing what we're wearing today so that always breaks my immersion a little bit
Not a nitpick, just something I'm wondering if others had thought of or is it just me :>
Cuz i see fashion from 30/35 years back and the 80s/90s' fashion really doesn't look like our current standard, and these people are still wearing what we're wearing today so that always breaks my immersion a little bit
Not a nitpick, just something I'm wondering if others had thought of or is it just me :>
Zoe
Member
Here's a good compilation of quotes regarding the mystery of Arnold for those who still don't understand how he's such an unknown:
https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/..._clear_up_some_misconceptions_about/?sort=new
https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/..._clear_up_some_misconceptions_about/?sort=new
I think it would be less immersive if they were all wearing some made up fashion garb. That would take people out of it for sure and make the plot seem more distant.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
You think so? Mmm I can understand... Yeah. But yeah, on the other hand, for me, they can futurize tablets and tech and gadgets but they can't seem to futurize fashion has always been a slight immersion break snag. But yeah, I can see your point too!
Ford/Bernard scenes: God tier
Dolores scenes: Great tier
MiB/Teddy scenes: OK tier
Maeve scenes: meh tier
The level of control Ford has over everything I just can't buy that Maeve would have so easy a time of it building her robo-revolution. Must be the new storyline: "The robots are taking over!"
Dolores scenes: Great tier
MiB/Teddy scenes: OK tier
Maeve scenes: meh tier
The level of control Ford has over everything I just can't buy that Maeve would have so easy a time of it building her robo-revolution. Must be the new storyline: "The robots are taking over!"
Maeve scenes are so unbelievable they detract from the rest of the story. Really bad. The motivation for the two dudes to keep helping her is getting insane.
If this first season is indeed a prequel of sorts I want it to end with a total victory for Ford.
Everything in Season 1 is his new storyline. He uses his self-designed host revolution events to destroy the board who tries to fire him.
Maeve is just a tool following Ford's storyline like a puppet.
There is no freedom from the complete god-like control that Ford has. There is no hope for robot freedom.
.......except a tiny sliver of something outside his control survives in Dolores.........cue Season 2.
Everything in Season 1 is his new storyline. He uses his self-designed host revolution events to destroy the board who tries to fire him.
Maeve is just a tool following Ford's storyline like a puppet.
There is no freedom from the complete god-like control that Ford has. There is no hope for robot freedom.
.......except a tiny sliver of something outside his control survives in Dolores.........cue Season 2.
ronaldthump
Member
ryutaro's mama
Member
FTFY
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
Not Theresa and Charlotte Hale. Those corporate suits are really lovely. I'd like the one Charlotte wore to interrupt MiB in this last episode. Very nice cut and lines on the chest area :>
And them heels * ____ * They're defo not 1930s heels :>
Bail on this thread immediately. So much of what was discussed in here comes true, and your enjoyment will be greater without the spoilers
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
As far as Bernard and 'Ford's family' goes, that has be all on Ford, since he dresses posh on account on his age and standing (his office being lit with signs of an interest in biology is not a coincidence. His talk on the peacock displays a background in biology to some extend) and tried to extend the same onto Bernard, also as a token of appreciation towards Arnold.
Also, between the 'old hosts' and the 'current versions' there is definitely a difference in wardrobe style that stands out.
Btw, for those who missed him: Dolores's original 'dad' can be seen during his speech thing from the other flashback in the background. You might be able to go back to that flashback and see if Dolores is there?
-----
You know what's bugging me about this whole timeline thing? Those sub-layers, and the supposedly abandoned train station. How do visitors get into the park now, when William and Logan entered through the train system (itself a direct reference to the movie)? Sylvester mentions a 'shuttle' at one point, so they must still be using them, yet the whole start of the theory was the arrival station appeared trashed / in disrepair in a shot of the pilot, if I recall correctly.
They have to show half the park getting trashed in the finale, or the outside world (clearly animals were still a thing when Ford was a child, but his dialogue in this episode suggests that is no longer the case) becoming dystopian to such a degree that these changes would be validated.
I do maintain that nobody in the right mind, considering the show has had extreme difficulties setting any kinds of rules or even where things are, would have assumed the alternate time framing to be the case. Then again, I also remarked about Arnold that "they can't reveal the guy now" and completely failed to notice I had been looking at him the whole damn time. To be entirely fair, they did not suddenly reveal another guy either.
----
Also, I'm becoming somewhat convinced that there is a secondary game on Ford's going on.
He seems to genuinely have cared for Arnold, and by 'sensitive disposition', Bernard. Getting rid of his legacy, especially when being upset with Dolores for killing him, seems somewhat out of character for him. Ensuring its survival however, is within it.
Dolores says 'she didn't tell him anything' while alone, which presumably is outside of Ford's control. She is supposedly talking to Arnold. So either Ford is playing himself, or something else is up. Probably the backdoor mentioned in the dialogue. Someone, perhaps with Bernard's help, could have figured this out too. I mean: "Ford is behind it all!" seems a little... strange.
Elsie goes to check up on someone using Arnold's name, and we see her getting chocked -not killed, they showed this twice now so by TV logic something is up- yet this is framed within Bernard's mind only, with Ford seeming genuine in his reply that he hasn't made Bernard hurt other people. Presuming that the board really has 'all the data of the park' there is a possibility that they already got to Bernard and what we saw was not by Ford's demand.
Additionally, Elsie looks at the code itself just before being grabbed and I seem to recall her saying something about 'something else', which she may have used to free herself.
I am going to make a hard bet on her still being alive. Whom she's working with or for (it would be shocking for her to discover Bernard is a host, sending her into hiding as she would know what that means. She is Behavior Department after all.) is what remains the question. Wanna guess MiB isn't alone and Logan is in on it after thirty years? Either that or his daughter / board representative (Charlotte is his kid, right?).
The incident is probably Logan getting killed though. It would explain MiB's marriage, the cover-up and his willingness to work with Ford to preserve Arnold's legacy (that is: Dolores and the maze) while Delos takes over Westworld.
We also didn't see security guy dying just that he went after Elsie's location device, which considering their earlier pursuit of that lumberjack, she would probably know he would do (Behavior! ), so it's not excluded that she's still playing and using hosts to move pieces while in hiding. That, or she's just dead, but that's kinda boring.
edit: oh right, and Bernard's whisper to Abernathy. Maybe he hacked himself at some point and is now a tripple agent? (he did whisper something, so if that's Ford's plan, the basement is where it's going to be coming from)
edit 2: and another thing worth noting: all of Arnold's originals -sentients, as per Bernard's dialogue- appear to be converging on the same town, with the 'dad' character missing from it. He might be called up there somehow. As Wyatt, maybe.
Sometimes they get repurposed (ala Abernathy). Also, there's likely billions on dollars in tech there.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
oh i think they tried to make it seems like time has passed for sure... im just saying the present time line where there is charlotte hale, she's wearing what i am usually wearing day to day, so it doesnt feel futurey to me... like it doesnt feel like 2030 or whenever we can feasibly reach that level of tech where 3D bio-printing is viable...
like their gadgets and technology looks futurized, but not their fashion
that's what i meant
sorry if i wasn't clear before
but it isn't a nitpick. just something i kinda notice when im watching :3
20cent
Banned
I posted this a month ago, but this thread it's still driving me insane so:
This is not how you spell De'Lauress.
LumpOfCole
Member
Dalerus appears to be having the same problem that
had in that last season episode of Person of Interest. Her memories are real enough that she can't tell time anymore.
The Machine
VARIA
Member
LOL! Haha, that's hilarious. Can't unsee.
Grady Durden
Member
I hope this clairvoyant person is right. Wow.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
you are all bad and will go to cold, cold storage for intentional misspelling of DOLORES' name
>:O
>:O
afternoon delight
Member
This show is totally half and half and its execution feels lacking. I love the timeline stuff but William psycho boy'ing overnight, Maeve's army leader role despite the awesome Thandie Newton, Teddy, Bernard IS Arnold's likeness!!1 without his suicidal tendencies I guess or he must have really been bumped off, it's just.... I don't know.
The handling of the solo security officer and the aware child scene were really clumsy too. Half and half.
The handling of the solo security officer and the aware child scene were really clumsy too. Half and half.
Agreed lol
they're stupid person heels insofar as they are completely inappropriate for her to be hiking out to meet the MIB in and yet she wore them anyway.
#firethewriters2016
you mean delorean?
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
well. it's all relatively safe and everything. it's not like there are 'chalk-painted' savages who can attack her in the area or anything. heels and corporate skirt suit that would be hard to run into is totes appropriate.
....
DONT HATE SQUIDERS
DONT U DARE HATE ON HER HEELS >:O