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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO

N

nomster

Member
I haven't been following this thread the whole way through the season so I apologize if this has been covered - early on there were scenes with a poker dealer and the man in black that involved the maze - did the show ever explain the dealers connection?
 
HighResTomato

HighResTomato

Member
Only good thing about this show was Dr Ford and Bernard, this ending was even more bullshit than the Maeve stuff but oh well, it was a good ride as long as it lasted. Can't wait to see what HBO fund next.
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
nomster said:
I haven't been following this thread the whole way through the season so I apologize if this has been covered - early on there were scenes with a poker dealer and the man in black that involved the maze - did the show ever explain the dealers connection?
Click to expand...

The actor died shortly after the pilot was shot.

His storyline was probably tweaked into Lawrence's.
 
holygeesus

holygeesus

Banned
Veritigo_X said:
Do deactivated hosts (the ones storming the party) still have active explosives? They didn't seem to factor that into the plan of getting Papa Abernathy out of the park.
Click to expand...

Also did they ever address just how these things are powered? What was their life-cycle if away from the maintenance team?
 
D

DrROBschiz

Member
holygeesus said:
Also did they ever address just how these things are powered? What was their life-cycle if away from the maintenance team?
Click to expand...

No but Nolan stated that was going to be addressed in season 2

One of the first challenges the AI's will face is the fact that while they are superior in some way they are still very much vulnerable
 
A

Angelus Errare

Banned
Ferrio said:
No it really happened. It was the show nailing in the point of how fake the park is. When there's no humans around the illusion fades. It had nothing to do with the lockdown, it was just normal energy saving procedures.
Click to expand...

Right but the issue is, all of 3 seconds prior the terminal was full of people getting arrive and departing the trains. The moment she stepped off everyone was gone.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
It's hard not to compare this show to Humans, considering they come out at around the same time and are ostensibly about the same thing, and watching the two shows together just makes Westworld seem ponderous and needlessly obtuse. You have scenes where people just explain shit to each other, revealing plot details that aren't exactly hard to infer or guess at to the people who don't want to think and just want everything spoon fed to them. This of course makes all the "mysteries" and whatnot feel like a waste of time as well, because there is nothing really mysterious about them. It's like the worst aspects of Lost combined with the worst aspects of Game of Thrones.

It doesn't help that the presumed ethics of having sentient murder/sexbots doesn't really go anywhere, particularly when the show is so insular and just focused on this park that only rich people can afford to go to.

I suppose it worked as a Western if nothing else?
 
D

DrROBschiz

Member
firehawk12 said:
It's hard not to compare this show to Humans, considering they come out at around the same time and are ostensibly about the same thing, and watching the two shows together just makes Westworld seem ponderous and needlessly obtuse. You have scenes where people just explain shit to each other, revealing plot details that aren't exactly hard to infer or guess at to the people who don't want to think and just want everything spoon fed to them. This of course makes all the "mysteries" and whatnot feel like a waste of time as well, because there is nothing really mysterious about them. It's like the worst aspects of Lost combined with the worst aspects of Game of Thrones.

It doesn't help that the presumed ethics of having sentient murder/sexbots doesn't really go anywhere, particularly when the show is so insular and just focused on this park that only rich people can afford to go to.

I suppose it worked as a Western if nothing else?
Click to expand...

Well what I did find interesting is the big picture stuff

You would think.... in our world... if we had created AI being even half as capable as the ones that exist in westworld you would see massive backlash and regulation

Is westworld supposed to be hidden from the world except for the most elite in society? Even then... its creepy. Its not like our society are strangers to the risks of toying with artificial intelligence... even if its just in fiction and entertainment
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
DrROBschiz said:
Well what I did find interesting is the big picture stuff

You would think.... in our world... if we had created AI being even half as capable as the ones that exist in westworld you would see massive backlash and regulation

Is westworld supposed to be hidden from the world except for the most elite in society? Even then... its creepy. Its not like our society are strangers to the risks of toying with artificial intelligence... even if its just in fiction and entertainment
Click to expand...
That's the thing, I was so excited to see Maeve leave because maybe we'd get to see what the outside world is like. Instead, she turns around and goes back into the park right at the end... so I assume it's going to be another season of them being stuck in this bubble as humans from the outside try to contain them.
 
C

Cornballer

Member
- ‘Westworld’ Finale Hits Season High, Caps Most Watched First Season Of HBO Series
Last night’s 90-minute Season 1 finale of HBO’s new sci-fi drama Westworld drew over 2.2 million viewers in its network premiere at 9 PM on the linear network, up +7% from last week and a series high. With replays and viewing on HBO Go/Now, the total Sunday night audience for the season closer rose to 3.6 million, up +5% from last week and also a series high, as viewing on HBO’s digital platforms more than doubled since Westworld premiered in October.

With an average of 12 million viewers across all platforms, now Westworld ranks as the most watched first season of an HBO original series ever.

Westworld, which already has been renewed for a second season, has been a commercial and critical success — just this morning the show landed two major WGA Award nominations — for best drama series and best new series. It has marked the first big drama launch for HBO since True Detective in January 2014.
Click to expand...
 
C

Cornballer

Member
M

Mattenth

Member
My theory to completely turn the show on its head:

The entire "park," including management is an elaborate game to try to help AI develop true consciousness.

The events in this last episode that really hit this for me were Maeve's escape being coded in, and, weirdly, Samurai World. Also, just a reminder that we saw Wyatt (and presumably, Dolores) storylines coded on the wall behind Charlotte in a previous episode.

My theory is that the "true" narratives designed by Arnold and Ford are the Maeve, Bernard, and Dolores storylines. Each narrative was designed to try to "kickstart consciousness."

The way that they "win the game" is by having a host break out of its narrative loop and do something that defies their code. That's why Ford and MiB both have hosts hold guns up to their heads and encourage them to pull the trigger. They want to die because it means that the host defied their code.

They're hoping that by creating this elaborate path of self-discovery for the hosts, maybe they'll finally break out.

But each time...

- Maeve leaves the park and doesn't question her motives.
- Bernard confronts Ford about his nature without a plan to break out
- Dolores discovers her past and chooses to stay in her "beautiful" world
- Or more plainly... all of them fail to develop "real" consciousness and just stay on their coded paths.

The "new narrative" that Ford unveils isn't a new narrative only for the park, but also includes a new narrative for the park management layer to try, once again, to help AIs gain consciousness and escape.
 
L

lamaroo

Unconfirmed Member
Ferrio said:
I wonder if the hosts will try to modify themselves so they can actually conceive like/with humans?
Click to expand...

Yeah I wonder if just because they realise they can now kill humans, that they shouldn't necessarily do it. More questions for season two, I'm excited for it.
 
R

RS4-

Member
Angelus Errare said:
Right but the issue is, all of 3 seconds prior the terminal was full of people getting arrive and departing the trains. The moment she stepped off everyone was gone.
Click to expand...

15 mins until departure? I guess there's no reason for new arrivals to stay as they just want to dive right in and fuck some robots, and everyone else was already on the train getting ready to go.
 
C

Cornballer

Member
- EW: Anthony Hopkins interview
This was your first serious TV show, at least in the United States. What drew you to this project originally?

They sent me the film book to read. I love to work. And I’d seen the original Westworld. But I couldn’t remember it, I only remembered the actors – Yul Brynner, Richard Benjamin. My agent phoned me and said will you meet [showrunner Jonathan Nolan] in order to talk about Westworld and I said, “Yeah.” And I said: “What do they want me to be?” And he said, “Some doctor.” So, Jon, we met and he gave me the script. He said you play the man who invents Westworld. I said, “Is it like Walt Disney?” He said, “Yeah, but it’s even darker than that. It’s almost like a Frankenstein.” So I said, “Yes, I’ll do it.”

What’s refreshing and interesting about it was starting with the first pilot – because no one knew it would be taken up [to series] by HBO. So it was a gamble, and I wanted to do it. And then the series was picked up. So what was interesting was to not know which way the story was heading. I said to Jon, “What happens to him?” He said, “I can’t tell you.” So I said, “What happens next week?” And he said, “I won’t tell you.” They sent me the script and I think, “Oh, this is interesting.” So each week I got a new script every 10 days let’s say, and they [blacked] out a lot of lines. So as a condition I said, “Look, it’s not that I don’t love it, but I always want to know the script inside out, backward and forward, so I can talk it in my sleep.”
Click to expand...

Is there anything that struck you in the difference between working in serious television versus film – aside from the fact that you didn’t know where your character was going along the way?

It’s certainly faster. And I think, with HBO, the great power is there’s no interference on the set. With a movie you know the beginning and the end [and] that’s it. You film it and you go home. On this, it was never shown which way it was going to go. And there were lots of surprises along the way. Many big surprises.

What drove Ford? What was his motivation?

I honestly don’t know. He’s obviously a very proud man fascinated by human intelligence, the nature of intelligence, the history of the human being, the nature of consciousness, and the theory that human consciousness – as we know it today – started very recently.
Click to expand...
More via the link.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
RS4- said:
15 mins until departure? I guess there's no reason for new arrivals to stay as they just want to dive right in and fuck some robots, and everyone else was already on the train getting ready to go.
Click to expand...
Perhaps I missed something, but why the hell would the lobby/terminal be so calm when robots are murdering everyone both inside the park and in the labs.
 
P

Paganmoon

Member
So the other parks can't be open yet or something right? For instance SamuraiWorld ,probably only in beta or something? Considering it seems it's in the same facility, and the trainstation announcer only stated Welcome to WestWorld.

Or if the trains stop at different levels depending on which park you're going to?

Then there's Felix note stating Park 1, I'd assume Westworld is the first park anyway, was the number just so it's overly obvious there are more parks/worlds? Or could that (Park 1), just be a naming scheme they use, to separate different parts/levels of Westworld?
 
C

Cels

Member
felix maeve and sylvester having some fun

cTXvnA9.gif
 
S

Snakethesniper

Member
Garrett 2U said:
Arnold's goal was to achieve consciousness in the hosts. His original theory of consciousness was a pyramid where the hosts became progressively more aware.

After his son died, while playing with his son's toy, he realized that consciousness wasn't a pyramid, but more like a maze. Any choice the hosts make could bring them closer to realizing their own voice, or reset them and bring them back to the start, prolonging their suffering. The center of the maze symbolizes the hosts achieving consciousness.

Arnold knew the hosts were becoming sentinent and couldn't rationalize subjecting them to a torturous life of servitude in Westworld, as Ford remained unconvinced.
So Arnold devised a scheme to make the hosts seem unsafe and stop the opening of the park. He made it seem like Dolores and Teddy went crazy, murdering all the hosts, Arnold, and themselves.

Ford was overwhelmed with grief over the loss of his partner and his responsibility for it. He covered up the whole incident and went on to open the park. Through his loss of Arnold, he was able to see the park through Arnold's eyes and realized what the hosts could become. So he continued Arnold's research and completed the reveries update which allowed the maze-like evolution of the hosts consciousness.
Click to expand...
thank you. So Wyatt was the "sentient" form of Dolores?
 
D

DrROBschiz

Member
firehawk12 said:
That's the thing, I was so excited to see Maeve leave because maybe we'd get to see what the outside world is like. Instead, she turns around and goes back into the park right at the end... so I assume it's going to be another season of them being stuck in this bubble as humans from the outside try to contain them.
Click to expand...

no way

I see it the other way around

They take control... and westworld become their hidden base of operations
 
V

Vulcano's assistant

Banned
I'm going to bet that within the first 10 minutes of the S2E1 you are going to see a scene that takes place outside with people disusing what are they going to do about WW/planning to get in to take it back.
 
M

More_Badass

Member
firehawk12 said:
Perhaps I missed something, but why the hell would the lobby/terminal be so calm when robots are murdering everyone both inside the park and in the labs.
Click to expand...
The people in the lobby were hosts. And they weren't programming to murder people like the cold storage/Wyatt gang/etc. hosts were
 
D

DrROBschiz

Member
Vulcano's assistant said:
I'm going to bet that withing the fist 10 minutes of the S2E1 you are going to see a scene that takes place outside with people disusing what are they going to do about WW/planning to get in to take it back.
Click to expand...

Yeah season 2 gets pretty hairy

I feel like it almost cant happen unless it all gets covered up after the takeover

And it will have to happen quickly.

My guess is that they start building copies of the dead to play the part of the deceased humans

yeesh.... sounds very tricky to go forward. Were they to draw the attention of the outside world with all that murder they could in theory... absolve themselves...

If no one believes they were actually sentient then the blame would fall on Ford for the murders
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
DrROBschiz said:
no way

I see it the other way around

They take control... and westworld become their hidden base of operations
Click to expand...
How can it be hidden when it's like the most famous vacation destination in the world? lol

More_Badass said:
The people in the lobby were hosts. And they weren't programming to murder people like the cold storage/Wyatt gang/etc. hosts were
Click to expand...
No I mean the humans that were coming and leaving the park. It seemed "bustling" with people.

Also, if you know that an android might have escaped, would you really let a train leave the park?
 
D

DrROBschiz

Member
firehawk12 said:
How can it be hidden when it's like the most famous vacation destination in the world? lol


No I mean the humans that were coming and leaving the park. It seemed "bustling" with people.

Also, if you know that an android might have escaped, would you really let a train leave the park?
Click to expand...

No I mean their Sentience and control of the park is hidden

As in hidden in plain sight
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
DrROBschiz said:
No I mean their Sentience and control of the park is hidden

As in hidden in plain sight
Click to expand...
I don't know how any company could justify keeping the entire product line intact when a group of people, including potentially the majority shareholder of the company, is slaughtered by the product that they are selling.

(Cigarette companies notwithstanding)
 
F

fierrotlepou

Member
Cornballer said:
First season. What makes GoT a huge hit for HBO is the year to year growth that it's seen since then.
Click to expand...

Solo said:
Yes. Most watched first season. GoT's later seasons are way more though. But then, hopefully WW's will be too!
Click to expand...

Still impressive. Yes, hopefully they can knock it out of the park once again with season 2!

This gives me high hopes for Foundation by Jonathan Nolan. I hope it's obvious now to investors that scifi television works.
 
old

old

Member
Amazing show. Waiting two years for the next season will be rough.

I definitely want to see other worlds in the next season. Like either the "real world" outside the park or that samurai world. (I wonder if they have a medieval knights world or a Caribbean pirates world too?)
 
D

DrROBschiz

Member
firehawk12 said:
I don't know how any company could justify keeping the entire product line intact when a group of people, including potentially the majority shareholder of the company, is slaughtered by the product that they are selling.

(Cigarette companies notwithstanding)
Click to expand...

Well there are a couple ways around it


- Deaths are hidden. Replaced with robots. Seems least likely though.. The capabiities of the Hosts to use the tools to create them and thwart efforts to discover the horrible chaos that went down

- Blame is shifted and a coverup rebuild is installed by William/Charlotte. Losses blamed on Ford or some other accident. Think about it. Delos sees the big picture and wants control even if their board buddies died...... still a stretch but it hinges on knowledge that the bots are sentient and whether that is believed of covered up

the solution to that being the Hosts holding key members alive and hostage. Mainly William and charlotte and making them do the dance to keep the park going
 
C

CloudWolf

Member
As soon as Bernard said to Maeve that she had been following her storyline the entire time I actually shouted out loud: "Oh shit, THIS is Ford's new narrative!" Glad to see that I was right. Awesome episode.
 
S

soul

Member
It wasn't Ford at the end, it was bot-Ford. He wouldn't let himself be killed. I refuse to believe that, given what we've learned about the character.
 
D

DrROBschiz

Member
CloudWolf said:
As soon as Bernard said to Maeve that she had been following her storyline the entire time I actually shouted out loud: "Oh shit, THIS is Ford's new narrative!" Glad to see that I was right. Awesome episode.
Click to expand...

Well one theory is that he built the narrative up until the final moments where he give them a sentient choice

For Maeve it was whether to follow command and infiltrate the mainlaid or disobey it and go after her daughter

For Dolores it was whether to pull the trigger as opposed to being forced like Arnold did

So Ford cracks the final piece of the sentience puzzle
 
C

CloudWolf

Member
Also, young Thor is dead, right? Since he accidentally stumbled upon some hosts that Ford was probably testing for the grand finale.
 
M

More_Badass

Member
Cipherr said:
I really appreciated that moment from his character. For him to immediately question himself. They could have easily missed that and instead had him focus on his shock of a dead colleague in general, but instead he immediately made the logical jump of worrying about himself too lol.
Click to expand...
It really was such a great little moment, that made perfect sense
 
R

RS4-

Member
firehawk12 said:
Perhaps I missed something, but why the hell would the lobby/terminal be so calm when robots are murdering everyone both inside the park and in the labs.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't get the isolated alarms. When they got to the samurais training, I'm sure I saw one of the techs in black just watching them, but oblivious to Felix and the Terminators, and a group of Stormtroopers walking in.

I guess they just don't want a site wide panic lol.
 
K

kris.

Banned
BlueTsunami said:
First season is eh, second goes batshit. Worth seeing both seasons.
Click to expand...

Tenck said:
Yeah. Season 2 had one of the best scenes I've ever seen on TV.

Both season finales were something else though. Jesus christ I have to rewatch The Leftovers.
Click to expand...

Theorry said:
Yeah for sure. Season 2 is maybe the best season of a tv show from the last 10 years.
Click to expand...

Cool, so I'm for sure starting a binge of this tonight. Thanks buds.
 
F

Ferrio

Banned
soul said:
It wasn't Ford at the end, it was bot-Ford. He wouldn't let himself be killed. I refuse to believe that, given what we've learned about the character.
Click to expand...

I really hope this isn't the case, it would really undermine the final scene of the season.
 
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