Support NeoGAF

[Pachimari]

Bernard even added to host coding, surprising Ford with his advanced intelligence. And yes it seems Ford never forced Bernard to follow a script because Ford wanted Bernard to come to agree with him on his own. As a way of winning over Arnold posthumously.

But why did Ford want Bernard to agree with him? For Ford, was it kind of a way of realizing Arnold agreeing with him?

And how could Bernard look exactly like Arnold? Did he model this host after him or did he plain out use Arnold's body too? I guess they made a host modeled after him.

I didn't understand the whole Dolores/Bernard connection either.

 

[Ferrio]

But why did Ford want Bernard to agree with him? For Ford, was it kind of a way of realizing Arnold agreeing with him?

And how could Bernard look exactly like Arnold? Did he model this host after him or did he plain out use Arnold's body too? I guess they made a host modeled after him.

I didn't understand the whole Dolores/Bernard connection either.

There is no connection between Dolores and Bernard really. All the interactions shown between the two were really Dolores and Arnold from the past.

 

[Zoe]

Bernard's sentient, right? He can make his own decisions. Ford just kept rewriting his memory so he didn't realize... or something

No, Ford said he hadn't suffered enough to reach sentience.

 

[jelly]

Soo, what stops humans from storming in and putting an end to Westworld or regaining control?

What host was Ford building in his basement....many episodes ago?

 

[Pachimari]

There is no connection between Dolores and Bernard really. All the interactions shown between the two were really Dolores and Arnold from the past.

Which is another thing I don't understand clearly.

 

[Marty-esque]

I kind of think the plot is going to examine the idea that Ford's new "story" isn't necessarily good just because it frees hosts. Ford seems to desire chaos and his idea of saving the hosts is to burn humanity down, seeing humanity as unavoidably the enemy of the hosts. I suspect we will see factions emerge among the hosts, some finding Ford's narrative to their liking, and others, not so much. For instance I could see Dolores going right along with Ford's plan. Not just because he centered it around her, but due to her pain, history of abuse, and all her shit with William. Dolores seems primed to experience an ironic twisting of her programmed attitude of loving and eagerly awaiting newcomers / guests, with William as the focal point. She could turn to despising them and thus humans.

Meanwhile, Maeve might be set up as a host who can become sympathetic towards humans. Especially since one thing Maeve hates above everything else, is the idea of her being controlled. I can't see her liking the idea that Ford's narrative is just another system of control conceived by a human. She is also capable of empathizing with humans, like Felix, and the woman and daughter on the train who touched her emotionally.



In a roundabout and ruthless way. He still forced hosts to murder people only because they were inconvenient. His plan to teach hosts about humanity involved subjecting them to torture and fucking with their minds (Bernard).

Ford seems motivated more by misanthropy and hatred of humanity, seeing the hosts as the cure to the human "disease". Arnold was more innocently compassionate and kind hearted, a genuine good guy who became horrified at having accidentally created a sentient slave race.

I completely agree with this. People are asking if Ford turned face but it's more like Dolores turned heel.

 

[Ferrio]

Which is another thing I don't understand clearly.

What exactly don't you understand?

 

[lamaroo]

Soo, what stops humans from storming in and putting an end to Westworld or regaining control?

What host was Ford building in his basement....many episodes ago?

Well for one, they wouldn't know who's a robot and who's human.

 

[Barnaby_Jones]

Wait... So at what point does Ford's Board friendly narrative begin? We see that his whole plan was the shootout and the robot uprising through sentience plot but when we see Ford present it to the board, the camera pans back as Teddy takes Dolorous Edd to the beach after being mortally wounded by William.

Are we supposed to play as Teddy in this scenario because then surely it'd count on there being a player two that plays the William storyline for any of the events to even take place? I suppose you could wave it away as a QTE event as you enter that town I guess.

 

[Psychoward]

Just finished the season, one thing I don't understand; how the hell did no one know Bernard was a synth/host/robot when his model was a 1:1 recreation of Arnold?

 

[Shogmaster]

Just finished the season, one thing I don't understand; how the hell did no one know Bernard was a synth/host/robot when his model was a 1:1 recreation of Arnold?

All records of Arnold was erased/hidden. Most only knew of Ford's old partner but didn't know his name nor what he looked like.

 

[Psychoward]

All records of Arnold was erased/hidden. Most only knew of Ford's old partner but didn't know his name nor what he looked like.

No former colleagues? What about the picture on Ford's desk? Or the fact that Bernard didn't age at all?

 

[Shogmaster]

No former colleagues? What about the picture on Ford's desk? Or the fact that Bernard didn't age at all?

No one from Arnold's era is in the park anymore. And that picture isn't something on display either.

 

[f0lken]

Just finished the season, one thing I don't understand; how the hell did no one know Bernard was a synth/host/robot when his model was a 1:1 recreation of Arnold?

Short versión: No one even knew Arnold existed, Ford deleted everything related to him to prevent the park from not opening is it was known that a host killed a human being

As for him not aging, he was in the park ofr something like ten years and we are told repeteadly that personal is constantly changing so I don't think someone would notice or even care

 

[RPS37]

So finale spoiler

Spoiler

Dolores is Wyatt and William is the MiB???

Whaaaaaat?

 

[Burt]

So finale spoiler

Spoiler

Dolores is Wyatt and William is the MiB???

Whaaaaaat?

 

[BlastProcessing]

Just finished the season, one thing I don't understand; how the hell did no one know Bernard was a synth/host/robot when his model was a 1:1 recreation of Arnold?

I read it as a take on Ub Iwerks.

 

[Psychoward]

I read it as a take on Ub Iwerks.

Iwerks didn't exist when cell phones, the internet and social media were all things. I just find it incredibly unbelievable.

 

[CloudWolf]

Just finished the season, one thing I don't understand; how the hell did no one know Bernard was a synth/host/robot when his model was a 1:1 recreation of Arnold?

Except for Ford, no one knows who Arnold was or what he looked like. Even in the segments with William and Logan 4 years after Arnold bit the bullet no one has any idea who Arnold is, just that Ford supposedly didn't create Westworld alone.

 

[f0lken]

Iwerks didn't exist when cell phones, the internet and social media were all things. I just find it incredibly unbelievable.

In westworld you are not allowed to bring phones, and any other things that would ruin the immersion, and I sincerely doubt someone would go "there is something about this black guy, maybe he is the lost founder of Westworld who's existence´s evidence has been deleted from archives, I better google him, and only him because reasons"

This is a case where we as an audience try to project our knowledge of the series into the characters as if they had that outsider hints and revelations that we do

 

[BlastProcessing]

Iwerks didn't exist when cell phones, the internet and social media were all things. I just find it incredibly unbelievable.

So in the story about sentient humanoid robots, this is what you find unbelievable?

Arnold's death was a huge setback for the park. I don't think it's a stretch to think that Ford and his new investors, William being one of them, would take pains to sweep his existence under the rug.

Cell phones, the internet, and social media cut both ways. They create an information overload where all sorts of things can hide.

 

[Psychoward]

Except for Ford, no one knows who Arnold was or what he looked like. Even in the segments with William and Logan 4 years after Arnold bit the bullet no one has any idea who Arnold is, just that Ford supposedly didn't create Westworld alone.

Well the flashbacks had Dolores with techs and other assistants there. How long after Arnold's death was Bernard built?

 

[f0lken]

Well the flashbacks had Dolores with techs and other assistants there. How long after Arnold's death was Bernard built?

25 years after, he has been in the park for 10 years

 

[Psychoward]

In westworld you are not allowed to bring phones, and any other things that would ruin the immersion, and I sincerely doubt someone would go "there is something about this black guy, maybe he is the lost founder of Westworld who's existence´s evidence has been deleted from archives, I better google him, and only him because reasons"

This is a case where we as an audience try to project our knowledge of the series into the characters as if they had that outsider hints and revelations that we do

I'm not talking about the guests, I'm talking about the employees of Westworld.

 

[Psychoward]

25 years after, he has been in the park for 10 years

Ok so even assuming not a single employee from the original creation was still working there - nobody new noticed the head technician hadn't aged a day in 10 years?

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Ok so even assuming not a single employee from the original creation was still working there - nobody new noticed the head technician hadn't aged a day in 10 years?

I'm not talking about the guests, I'm talking about the employees of Westworld.

some people dont look like they age much in 10 years time. like keanu reeves. or something.

as for your second point, i just quote my post from a while back

No, no one knew what Arnold had looked like. It was 35 years ago. And even if Bernard looks exactly like Arnold, it was still 35 years ago for most people. I dont even know what Oracle's CEO looks like now let alone 35 years ago.

Also, they were a garage* start up, so they were two duders that were trying to do something big and the world hadn't taken notice of them yet.

And no, they dont have google search for people's photos in their world

Spoiler

*even if it's a space-garage on the moon, it's still a garage start up

 

[f0lken]

I'm not talking about the guests, I'm talking about the employees of Westworld.

They are in constant rotation, even Theresa who has a high position in the park is one of many that had been there as Ford said, and I was talking about the employees, is not like there is a huge photo of Arnold hanging at the entrance so people can compare if some guy just happens to look like him.

And every other employee other tan Ford from the original project was dead as per Dolores flashback when she remembered every one of them dead in the halls beneath the church

 

[gofreak]

I still feel like I'm digesting everything. I've not been keeping a mental map of all the plots and little details, but that finale was just thoroughly entertaining and gripping to watch.

I love Maeve's character. I guess she was the information mule for Delos, to get their data out of the park? And I suppose her returning was her 'breaking the loop' moment, going against her script, for her daughter.

The possibilities for Season 2 are immense. An all out war in the park? How will the 'outside' intervene - are there authorities still in the outside world that would intervene? Samurai World? Ah! Of course, season 2 could present a very compressed timeline in the aftermath of this 'rebellion' that wouldn't necessarily involve any or all of these factors. Will be really interesting to see what they go with, but they've given themselves so much to work with.

 

[SiteSeer]

Ok so even assuming not a single employee from the original creation was still working there - nobody new noticed the head technician hadn't aged a day in 10 years?

i think they established in the first few episodes that people 'rotate out' after a period of time. some or all probably don't come back either by choice or design.

 

[Joni]

"Black sure don't crack" must be Ford's most used statement to make sure nobody notices.

 

[StopMakingSense]

I love Maeve's character. I guess she was the information mule for Delos, to get their data out of the park? And I suppose her returning was her 'breaking the loop' moment, going against her script, for her daughter.

No, Pops Abernathy was the host they were going to use.

Maeve's piece of Ford's puzzle was to cause a distraction.

 

[BrassDragon]

Okay... so... um... why did the MIB scalp a random host to find a drawing of a maze and then proceed to ride around the park as if he had a purpose? Disregarding how he knew where to look for that drawing, how did that 'clue' help him in any way?

If his motivation was to find out what Dolores was looking for on her endlessly repeating loop, why not just follow her around and nudge her storyline in different directions across the decades? And why the hell is that drawing there in the first place, how does having a physical maze hidden inside someone's body help the hosts gain consciousness?

I like the pay-off but damn, a lot of the story just seems so purposefully obtuse.

 

[gofreak]

No, Pops Abernathy was the host they were going to use.

Maeve's piece of Ford's puzzle was to cause a distraction.

Ahhh... (see, I told you I wasn't on top of all the details!) That would explain why that writer went down the basement then.

 

[itchy. tasty]

You could analyse the different elements of this show to the point of unbelievability.

I pondered about Bernard's past too, thinking surely somebody would have brought it up at some point during robo-bernards reign, right? Wouldn't his real life relatives wonder where he'd gone after he mysteriously disappeared? Even though he seems fairly estranged from the flashbacks, surely somebody (friends, aunts, uncles, sisters, brothers) would wonder this? Wouldn't he have loans/bills and shit that needed paying? leading into potential investigations to where he'd went, into his work life?

When the writers delve too deeply into the past's of the characters, where do you stop? I think you have to let it ride out, it's a TV show about machines gaining sentience. The memories and back stories are hazy and vague for a reason, at least for know anyway. who knows, we may get more answers in the seasons to follow. Hell, I mean they may have intentionally left it unclear so that they could leave it wide open for story building in the future. But based on the evidence and story we currently have, will only lead to more speculation.

 

[Sickboy007]

How good is the soundtrack? I'm listening to it 24/7. Both the covers and the original themes are amazing.

 

[Blade30]

How good is the soundtrack? I'm listening to it 24/7. Both the covers and the original themes are amazing.

I haven't listened to the complete soundtrack but at the moment these two are my favorites.

Violent Delights Have Violent Ends

Ep5 ending

 

[Joni]

I pondered about Bernard's past too, thinking surely somebody would have brought it up at some point during robo-bernards reign, right? Wouldn't his real life relatives wonder where he'd gone after he mysteriously disappeared? Even though he seems fairly estranged from the flashbacks, surely somebody (friends, aunts, uncles, sisters, brothers) would wonder this? Wouldn't he have loans/bills and shit that needed paying? leading into potential investigations to where he'd went, into his work life?

Or you know, people know that Arnold is dead?

 

[Monochromaticx]

How good is the soundtrack? I'm listening to it 24/7. Both the covers and the original themes are amazing.

I don't want to listen to it because it might make me depressed

 

[biggersmaller]

A lot of detailed analysis going on...which is part what made S1 so great to me. The community collectively figuring out plot twists and such. That said, as with a lot of sci-fi, I have to forgive a certain level of inconsistency and logic holes.

I went back my post from October:

I love this show. Love it. So...

Logic cannot be applied too heavily. Even when on its own terms.

Just the operational logistics of continuously staging something like Westworld is stupidly unrealistic. I mean, it's Disney World where every guest has the right to take a sledgehammer to the place. Sure, a current day imagineer could always rebuild an animatronic frog or a Disney contractor fix a window - but at what cost? I thought of it when the safe was dragged through a wooden bannister. Apparently some employee has to come through and rebuild an antique railing. What if a wealthy guest who fantasizes of arson comes through and burns a whole saloon to the ground with all the hosts in it? Westworld is going to rebuild the whole damn thing? I get this is meant to be expensive, but no way would it be sustainable.

Based off William's orientation and the shock of how his buddy treats the hosts, clearly this type of android technology isn't really known outside Westworld. Understanding there's a hint in the dialogue of the tech being secretly applied elsewhere, from an everyman's POV near-human robotics has existed for 30 years...to only populate a theme park?

Point is, a lot of shit goes down in Westworld during that time that would require an unrealistic amount of manpower to covertly deal with some of the issues that occurred.

 

[FStop7]

Okay... so... um... why did the MIB scalp a random host to find a drawing of a maze and then proceed to ride around the park as if he had a purpose? Disregarding how he knew where to look for that drawing, how did that 'clue' help him in any way?

The actor he scalped was supposed to have a larger role but he passed away.

 

[Solo]

And his part was obviously molded into Lawrence.

 

[Hypnotoad]

Ok so even assuming not a single employee from the original creation was still working there - nobody new noticed the head technician hadn't aged a day in 10 years?

It is even more absurd since not aging is the one visible characteristic that separates humans from hosts. If Bernard lived somewhere outside in the real world, sure, it could be brushed aside as "Blacks don't crack" (even though everybody will look different in one way or another, no matter how good the genes). But inside Westworld, someone not aging should raise all kinds of red flags.

 

[BrassDragon]

The actor he scalped was supposed to have a larger role but he passed away.

That's a bit more prosaic than I thought it would be... but cheers.

 

[Jarmel]

The actor he scalped was supposed to have a larger role but he passed away.

I feel like that's more of a general rewriting issue. The host obviously wouldn't be able to put an image of the maze inside his head.

 

[Solo]

I feel like that's more of a general rewriting issue. The host obviously wouldn't be able to put an image of the maze inside his head.

Likely he was one of the original hosts and Arnold put it there. Because reasons.

 

[MMBosstones86]

So.....Ford wasn't really the 'bad guy' all along and generally wanted the same thing Arnold wanted : to free the hosts. Is that sound about right?

Also...what are the chances that was host-Ford and he's really still alive? We still don't know anything about the host he was working on in the basement, right?

Nice finale. wrapped up most of the plot points (because killing people).

 

[chris121580]

I blew through this in 2 days and loved absolutely every minute of it. I do have a question...how long has William been there? Does he just visit the park periodically? Also, are we supposed to assume that he's a completely different person outside the park? It sounds like he is the head of the company that has done a lot of good things. The scene that comes to mind was when a random visitor walked up to him and thanked him for what he did for his sister...William blew him off and said he was on vacation

 

[ClosingADoor]

I blew through this in 2 days and loved absolutely every minute of it. I do have a question...how long has William been there? Does he just visit the park periodically? Also, are we supposed to assume that he's a completely different person outside the park? It sounds like he is the head of the company that has done a lot of good things. The scene that comes to mind was when a random visitor walked up to him and thanked him for what he did for his sister...William blew him off and said he was on vacation

He was hiding his "true self" in the outside world. The park brings out what you really are and you are free to do so there.

He has been coming to the park for 30 years, but he did have a life outside. He married into a rich family it seems and bought most of the park to become the majority shareholder.

 

[Solo]

William is majority shareholder at Delos. He hasn't been in Westworld long this time ("damn, it's good to be back") - maybe a week. I get the sense that he's come back annually for a week or two for 30 years. Like people who visit Disney annually. And yes, it's made clear that he's very different outside the park. The William we first meet? That's fake, outside world William. That is who he normally is (or is pretending to be). He's a "good man", a philanthropist, titan of industry, etc. The William we see as the MiB? That's his true self as revealed by the park.

 

[chris121580]

William is majority shareholder at Delos. He hasn't been in Westworld long this time ("damn, it's good to be back") - maybe a week. I get the sense that he's come back annually for a week or two for 30 years. Like people who visit Disney annually. And yes, it's made clear that he's very different outside the park. The William we first meet? That's fake, outside world William. That is who he normally is (or is pretending to be). He's a "good man", a philanthropist, titan of industry, etc. The William we see as the MiB? That's his true self as revealed by the park.

Awesome! Damn, this show is so good. When William turns on Logan...that scene was incredible