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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
greycolumbus
The success of others absolutely infuriates me.
Even though I feel William might be a red herring, I think that can be explained as an early malfunction. The show might be throwing a whole bunch of curve balls.
What was weird about that is they said they would use him for target practice and he didn't flinch.
The milk thing struck me as weird but maybe it's a subconscious memory of that liquid all the hosts are made of.
I also wonder if, in the case the hosts successfully break away from humans and establish their own society, would they ultimately feel unfulfilled since the literal meaning of their lives is to entertain humanity?
God I love this show so much. I'm such a sucker for robots with feelings.
I also wonder if, in the case the hosts successfully break away from humans and establish their own society, would they ultimately feel unfulfilled since the literal meaning of their lives is to entertain humanity?
God I love this show so much. I'm such a sucker for robots with feelings.
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
Interesting but that event - the can falling on the ground - happens every day, doesn't it? So any day someone could pick it up.
But his buddy does say, "You'll be begging me to never leave" and "everyone gets seduced" and all that.
On the other hand, every day can be a red wedding.
I'm pretty sure the Greeks believed something similar and were still mostly cool with it.
More_Badass
Member
New posters
More_Badass
Member
Those are GoT S1 numbers (ep 2 of GoT was 2.2 million)
PepperedHam
Member
No consequence? I'd say his adventures are part of the reason some of the robots have started to malfunction. What do you mean by no consequence exactly?
Huh, I felt the opposite. His scenes are really intriguing and I'm enjoying the
mystery of figuring out what the maze actually is.
He's been in how many pointless shootouts? 3 I think or 4.
Yeah, I'm the opposite of you. Ed Harris steals the show for me and every time he comes on screen I'm super hyped.
what makes them pointless? does he have to die for there to be a point?
the first one showed us that he couldn't be hurt by them. another he was saving/rescuing someone, and the latest one he was trying to protect himself while questioning about the maze. there was story progression tied to each
The security dude said this guest can do whatever he wants.
So it's definitely known he's VIP or something
The scene where he chooses his hat, he smirks as he looks at the black hats. I instantly felt like that was him hinting at the darkness deep within.
I feel like the only person on earth who is not digging this show at all. I've watched both episodes now and they do absolutely nothing for me. It feels like LOST all over again (another show that was a public phenomenon that I didn't enjoy in the least).
I found the use of musical covers in the first episode to be cheesy and totally immersion breaking and I am glad that this was not a thing in episode 2 but it still felt pedestrian. I feel like they're ramping up the stakes way too fast. There are so many characters that just aren't established at all yet so what should be shocking and riveting ends up falling totally flat for me as I haven't really developed the kind of connection to any of these character that such things depend upon for impact.
It also kind of feels like they are just throwing crazy out there to see what sticks. While there are multiple divergent narratives going on they seem so loosely connected they fail to capture my attention/imagination in a way that I feel they were meant to.
All said I find myself incredibly disappointed after the first two episodes.
I found the use of musical covers in the first episode to be cheesy and totally immersion breaking and I am glad that this was not a thing in episode 2 but it still felt pedestrian. I feel like they're ramping up the stakes way too fast. There are so many characters that just aren't established at all yet so what should be shocking and riveting ends up falling totally flat for me as I haven't really developed the kind of connection to any of these character that such things depend upon for impact.
It also kind of feels like they are just throwing crazy out there to see what sticks. While there are multiple divergent narratives going on they seem so loosely connected they fail to capture my attention/imagination in a way that I feel they were meant to.
All said I find myself incredibly disappointed after the first two episodes.
Ploid 3.0
Member
As a person that haven't seen the movie, I was thinking this had to be some type of VR, but now it seems like it's not. So the world (planet?) is in good shape, and this is some expensive theme park that they have to clean up, and put everything back in place each visit cycle. For the amount of newcomers, the tickets must cost a fortune and then another fortune. If the world was a mess I could see why people would want to go to this virtual world, but since it's not virtual the world has to be in a good enough shape for these locations to exist. So it's just a period, scifi, and whatever the third world is theme park that have androids that you can abuse, talk to, or take quests from (which people seem to stop doing).
If technology is this far along I'd imagine VR, computer AI, and videogames would fulfill a lot of the experiences these android filled worlds could do at a fraction of the cost, and to a ton more customers. I hope they show off what life is like outside of the company. Maybe show the guy that showed up in season 2 at his home as he think about reasons for returning, and if selling his house would cover the costs.
If technology is this far along I'd imagine VR, computer AI, and videogames would fulfill a lot of the experiences these android filled worlds could do at a fraction of the cost, and to a ton more customers. I hope they show off what life is like outside of the company. Maybe show the guy that showed up in season 2 at his home as he think about reasons for returning, and if selling his house would cover the costs.
Da-Kid
Member
That's true, but that doesn't mean one personality can't fit in different scenario. They're programmed to follow storylines with limited ability to improvise whenever something goes off key. Now the show is implying
that these memories are just from different roles they took which may be the case.
But I find it strange how that lady analyzing one of them said
"Could you imagine what will happen if they remembered what we do to them?"
sentient
More_Badass
Member
But none of the endings were particularly shocking or character driven
The first show was more about the general nature of the AI (evolved to the point of lying and hurting living things) and whatever the next plan for the park is. Sure the first ending was about Dolores, but it told us more about the AI's sentience than some major shocking character reveal
I really love the show. I feel like beyond the wonderful production and high-concept ideas they are toying with stuff that gives them a lot of depth as far as characters and story goes. And the actors they have on board are amazing. The thing im uncertain of is what type of scope they are looking at. To have a 5 season plan already is good to hear but still uncertain so early.
I'm happy to hear there's 5 planned but a part of me hopes that it doesn't extend much longer than that. If they can pull it off and keep it super good, then by all means continue. I would just rather it end then watch it become bland and meandering
I don't know if this needs spoilering but I'm going to do it anyway.
The more I think about the theory that the Man in Black
, the more I like it.
The more I think about the theory that the Man in Black
is William
MIB has a really cynical, cavalier attitude towards the hosts and the park in general that seems to come from some kind of deeply personal beef. I wonder if the "birth" he mentioned wasn't the moment where he let loose and immersed himself, but the moment when the illusion broke for him. Like maybe the moment he realized Dolores could never actually love anyone and he felt like the biggest idiot in the universe. Heartbreak and a deep resentment stemming from embarrassment are very plausible motivations for the type of behavior MIB exhibits. His interactions with Dolores have the tone of an abusive ex or something.
Nah, he's just satisfying the win conditions for each quest.
I give up on following this thread closely, you guys talk about this show A LOT. 
The William=MiB theory is very interesting and something I did not even think about while watching. This is getting to Uncharted fans level of obsession though, like the Westworld logo differences and finding it in cold storage lol.
I DO NOW
The William=MiB theory is very interesting and something I did not even think about while watching. This is getting to Uncharted fans level of obsession though, like the Westworld logo differences and finding it in cold storage lol.
I DO NOW
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I don't subscribe to William = MiB just yet. Right after he interacts with Dolores, Dolores looks at her reflection and shows signs of remembering stuff. This wouldn't have happened 30 years ago.
Westworld performed well on episode 2, which is always a great sign
http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/tv-ratings-westworld-week-2-1201884316/
The best part was that it was still able to pull nearly 2m live viewers, even with the presidential debate on at the same time. Very impressive.
http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/tv-ratings-westworld-week-2-1201884316/
The best part was that it was still able to pull nearly 2m live viewers, even with the presidential debate on at the same time. Very impressive.
Map of the staff facility/guest lounge and arrival from the park site.
Yeah, just saw it and wish I hadn't.
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
Wait, what if Teddy is the man in black?!?! Like Agent Smith-type shit getting out of The Matrix.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
The parallels with William and the MiB may be intentional, but metaphorical. Perhaps William's idealism is meant to suggest what the MiB was once like. And the difference between the two shows how hardened the MiB is in his cynicism.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
stahp
Man in Black is human and he definitely always was. "Who he is" is definitely a relevant and open question, but "what he is" is locked down. Anything pertaining to him being a host or former host makes no sense to anything.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
I'm going to guess one of the hosts kills his friend and wounds him. Thus in his settlement with the park, he gets a free pass. That's why they are letting him get away with so much crap.
Now for why he totally changes, who knows. Maybe he does develop feelings for them. Thus why he would take a pass in the first place. I wouldn't want to go back there if the above theory comes about.
Now for why he totally changes, who knows. Maybe he does develop feelings for them. Thus why he would take a pass in the first place. I wouldn't want to go back there if the above theory comes about.
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
Yeah you're probably right.
Well, someone we don't expect is going to end up being either real or an android (i hope).
Yeah I had a feeling about this when he mentioned he'd been coming for a while now.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
No, this thing is bull, no offense intended (I know writing it like this makes people think it's personal to them, but it's not, it's just at the interpretation of the editing and storytelling).
The reason is simple: the editing makes zero effort to make any kind of claim that such a thing is happening, Dolores has an event with the trigger phrase within the same scene, the technology shown in the arrival of White Hat is consistent with that in MiB's scenes so there is no reason to suspect a time difference at all, and furthermore adding such a ridiculous jump in interpretation would so needlessly overcomplicate the already not-directly told narrative that it would get the show cancelled in about two seconds flat. It would just be another LOST and nobody wants that. The way Nolan described it, is the white hat / black hat is just something taken from video games, where choices tend to be digital as well (which sucks), and it's just a visual token for what kind of character -or man- these guests choose to be or play. MiB: villain, Unknown: hero. That's all.
Seriously, good storytelling is holding back on crazy stuff and keeping things simple and direct. If we have to ask what it means, it doesn't (quote from Armond White).
Furthermore, while the decision to tell the story through the hosts is appreciated in creating understanding and empathy, it does lead to -predictable- problems when we are asked to play for both Team Bot as well as Team Human in the form of Bernard, Ford, and other staffers. Iceman has made an analysis on it, and while I think the sequence stuff is kind of overdoing it (because no real movie actually works like that, even if most screenwriting books tell you that they do. Theory versus praxis) , I am forced to agree with him on the lack of properly defined protagonists. This is what happens when you watch someone play a video game without commentary or otherwise a human hook for the video. It becomes random, meaningless, devoid on real interest other than the question what the fuck it is you're looking at. As Iceman tried to put it: due to the lack of clear protagonists, the show is completely dependent on the appeal of its mystery. And the moment that either fails by reveal (which I want) or bullshitting (which is LOST, which I don't want), the show will deflate like a balloon, unless by that time they have subtly restructured the show towards having proper protagonists: Dolores (which is at least one), MiB, Ford, Bernard. Which are also the highest billed and best known actors (so is the black madam, but she appears to be a minor character in the pilot, with the second episode having a plot for her, so I don't know if she's a 'top billed' or not), so they are probably supposed to be the protagonists and antagonists (to each other), but the way the narrative is structured make that unclear.
Also one of the first lines uttered in the series is something like "It cost a fortune, it better be good."
DangerMouse
Member
Which is cool, he's great.
Oh yeah that's right he was in PoI
Yeah.
Well William and The Man in Black both have a scene with Dolores that runs parallel to one another. Yes, I am aware that her dropping the can is a scripted event and that guests are intended to pick it up for her but it could also be showing Man in Black's first interaction with Dolores as well. If a misleading timeline is the twist they're going for, it would make sense for the similarities to not run too deep just from Episode 2. There could be more hints to this down the road.
Her "event with the trigger phrase" when she's staring into her reflection could be an example of what Ford was saying about the old hosts malfunctioning back in the day, freezing up and/or repeating themselves. This would prove that the technology is not in fact consistent.
An earlier post did an observation of the Westworld logos portrayed in William's scenes and found that it matches the logo found on the walls in Cold Storage (an older part of the facility), where as later in the episode when Sizemore is giving his presentation on Odyssey on Red River we can clearly see that the logo in the background does not match the one shown when William is visiting Westworld.
I feel like portraying the story as William's narrative being the origin story for Man in Black makes things less complicated and actually streamlines the storyline more-so than having him be a separate character and then having to add Man in Black's actual origin story in down the road, adding to the number of things people are gonna need to keep up with. Plus, this is high concept, philosophical sci-fi anyways so I think you underestimate the target audience's ability to follow the plot. Game of Thrones got a huge following and early in the show it's not the easiest thing to remember names, backstory, and character connections. Plus, I feel like having all of these intentionally disjointed stories weave into each other and achieve an over-arching plotline is one of their intents.
We'll just have to see where they take the narrative. Could go in any direction, honestly. Game of Thrones threw a big curveball at the end of their first season and that kinda informed the plot direction for a good while, so who knows what we'll be looking at in terms of endgame when this season is wrapped up.