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[MrAngryFace]

I only know of the current options for PvP stuff. The town raids n such. Someone care to fill me in?

I had a fantastic RvR experience in Dark Age tonight. I logged on as usual and asked the usual questions regarding the battlegrounds and to my surprise my battleground was insanely active. See both Midgard and Albion love to pick on the Hibernians for some odd reason, and we had held the central keep of Molvik for a WHOLE 24 hours. IN any case Midgard started making incursions early in the night. I was there to meet them with one rag tag team of hibernians determined to hold the line:

We took a stand near a midgard guard tower in the battleground and formed a permiter. I ran patrols with my pet to sniff out stealth characters while others set up a perimeter for ambushes. For 20 minutes we lured midgard into our trap. Of course we got cocky and were flanked by a FREAKING ARMY OF MIDGARD.

We're murdered. Stealthers are patrolling the route from our spawn keep to the central contested keep which we still hold, getting back is difficult. We send out parties to escort players back who had to release back to the respawn.

Midgard has set up 4 catapults on the nearest mountain raining rocks upon the central keep. The persistant thud marking the sudden fall of our wall. Midgard comes pouring in, but we're prepared.

This continues, and to our surprise albion shows up to stake their claim. Instead of assaulting us tho they run into Midgard. Haha jerks. Both opposing armies were rather huge. Parties of stealthers numbered from 3-5 and there were at least 2. Thats not counting regular infantry and spell casters.

I took my role ensaring enemies and poisoning them as they attempted to gang up on my party. NO LUCK FOR THEM.

After an hour we threw them all off and by this time our calls to the alliance for fresh troops proved fruitfull. We now had the forces to at least strike back against the catapults on the mountain. Fully buffed we charged up that fucking mountain and chased midgard all the way back to its spawn keep, and then threw out the money changers and then we blew up their stuff on the mountain.

Thats the point where everyone gave up trying to take our keep. I had to log out but my team continued on to harass midgard guard towers just to spite those fuckers.

Is WoW gonna have castles and siege equipment n stuff? It would be like playing Warcraft III, but a deeper version

 

[firex]

pvp battlegrounds in WOW look like they will be designed around a specific objective. one of them looks like it's going to be built around destroying the other side's base from the leaked screenshots, the others don't look like they're quite ready to go. and they had some pictures of siege equipment and vehicles they plan to put into the battlegrounds when they did their pvp article a few months back on the main site.

I really hope they do different types of objectives on each battleground, but it looks like from what's been revealed, they're going to do a lot in the same style as DAOC.

 

[MrAngryFace]

Thats cool, DAoC has a good thing going with its persistent battlefields thing. That will make battles seem like they matter instead of JUST being PvP encounters.

 

[firex]

from what I can see they're also going to be instanced, and I know in the beta I was able to find a couple areas that were definitely going to be battlegrounds (one had the portal but wasn't active, the other had like all the same buildings as the other but no portal). I just hope it winds up having a population limit so one side can't just take a ton more people into a battleground and win by a zerg rush. but it does look like they're going to try to recreate the feel of warcraft 3 maps. and yeah, the pvp battlegrounds are what I really want to play, not the regular pvp (although that's fun).

 

[Kintaro]

Really damn bummed that Blizz has no plans on the PvP honor system as of yet (even though they were advertised all to hell and back). Was one of the reasons I chose to go PvP server with the GAF clan, but since then did some research. Looks like I'll be playing my Rogue alt on PvE server more till this is settled (which will have Battlegrounds as well).

Damn Rogue is super fun.

 

[firex]

I'm positive the honor system is going to be put in since for a long time in the beta you would get honorable/dishonorable kill messages. I think they just took out the message to avoid confusing people getting honorable/dishonorable kills with no real effect on it. But maybe they're just going to rework it so it's linked to battlegrounds more or something, I don't know.

 

[MrAngryFace]

There ARE plans for a persistent battleground area tho right? where clans can claim keeps and stuff? Seems sorta fundamental. Im sure they will. WoW isnt even at its first expansion.

Also explain this honorable/dishonorable kill thing.

 

[firex]

there are plans for battlegrounds, but I don't know if it's persistent or not like in DAOC. I kind of hope not because while it's cool to brag about having control of a place for x amount of time, at least with the way the beta worked it seems like it'll be really easy for one side to just round up 3x the people and go in and kill everybody.

and honorable/dishonorable kills were just based on level difference. it seemed like it was based similar to whether something gives xp for killing it or not. if you kill somebody a lot lower than you, it's dishonorable, but if you kill somebody within your level range or higher (which does seem like it's based upon the xp range for their levels) it's honorable. honorable gives you rewards and dishonorable makes you KOS to your own faction and can't talk to any of the NPCs (guards will attack you too). It's just basically meant to discourage griefing low level players and encourage fairer fights.

 

[MrAngryFace]

FireX: well DAoC is a numbers game too. WAR is a numbers game. Especially so in MMORPGS since balance dictates that everyone is limited to a similar class of warfare.

Hibernians are ALWAYS beat up on in DAoC but sometimes we bite back with experience, and those victories are sweeter than any done with pure numbers.

As for Honor/Dis, DAoC sorta has something like that, we dont get marked but we just dont get as much reward for killing someone at a low level, and the battlegrounds are created in level ranges so no one is ever SERIOUSLY overpowered and they can function in the play field.

New frontiers are a different story.

 

[Kintaro]

Also explain this honorable/dishonorable kill thing.

Eventually, Blizz has plans to have Rewards for PvP. Honoarable kills and Dishonorable kills

Dishonorable Kills = A dishonorable kill is when a player kills another player that is 7 or more levels below them. When this happens, the player will receive the message “Dishonorable Kill” on their screen and they will lose honor points. If they lose enough points, they could potentially not be able to visit their own faction towns. (Source)

Honorable Kill = Conquering Battlegrounds, and slaying important NPCs of the opposing faction. As you gain points, you gain rank. Gain rank, get special reward items, access to areas, merchants, etc.

Basically, a way to keep lvl 60 people from killing lvl 20 people. etc.

Then again... according to Blizzard's FAQ...

Can I camp another players corpse in PVP?
- Actions that would typically be considered “dishonorable actions” such as, but not limited to; corpse camping, graveyard camping, or instance zone camping are considered PvP mechanics and are not considered harassment on a PVP server.

Can I grief/harass a player from the opposite faction on a PvP server?
- The Ongoing Harassment policy does not apply on the PvP server when there is a PvP resolution available. Characters have the ability to deal with their conflicts through combat and Game Masters will only involve themselves in extreme circumstance

 

[MrAngryFace]

they might go the DAoC route, which would be cool for WOW, by offering faction specific special abilities.

For example I earn realm points in RvR. With enough points I get Realm Skill Points, which are put into skills OUTSIDE of the normal skill set for my class. For example one skill is a spell that creates a pool of health (first skill level is 1000hp) that the entire group youre with will draw from whenever they hit 75% health and this will heal them until the pool is gone, then you have to wait a certain amount of time before using the spell again. Less wait at higher skill levels, but realm skill points arent quick to get and higher levels require A LOT of them.

 

[firex]

They said it would include stuff like equipment, tabards you can wear, and special mounts, so it seems more like stuff you can use to show off.

 

[MrAngryFace]

Showing off is cool n all, but id hope there'd be more incentive. DAoC just uses the Trials of Atlantis (which some think suck) to offer elite equipment. You want that shit you gotta do the trials. The equipment isnt the end all be all but it helps.

 

[firex]

well, actually, mounts are a pretty important pvp tool, but what they said about the equipment you could get was that at the highest ranks of the honor system it'd be like getting the best items you could get from the pve game. so it seems like the better your pvp honor the better you can do in pvp.

 

[MrAngryFace]

Oh so the eq isnt JUST for showing off? Ok I get it. How do mounts work in PvP?

 

[firex]

you can't mount up in combat, but it's obviously a pretty good tool for chasing down someone, or for escaping from a group. plus, since there's no mounted combat, if you can outrun people then you're safe for the time being, and if they chase you on their mounts there's not much chance they can stop you either, unless they have a (way more expensive) faster mount. I just don't think they'll put in a mount from the pvp rewards that's as good as the mounts you can buy normally - they'll just probably look cooler but have the same speed boost.

it's more of a difference when you compare fighting someone without a mount to having one. sure they can slip away maybe, but without a mount it'll be easier to find them on foot.

 

[MrAngryFace]

Ah, yeah im not so sure id like the mounts idea unless fighting could be done on them. Not sure how that could fairly affect combat tho. Sounds like for now anyway, they're skirting the issue.

 

[firex]

it's a HUGE advantage even without mounted combat. if there was mounted combat, it'd be insanely big because mounts make you go 60% faster than on foot, so there'd be almost literally no way to get someone on a mount.

I don't know if the mounts they plan to add for pvp rewards (assuming they even add them) will cost as much as regular mounts (80g for the level 40 version, 1000g for the level 60 version that goes 100% faster than walking) or cost less or be free or what. but it's like the pvp rewards seem to be a mix of stuff to show off and a way to focus on the game other than pve and still get comparable equipment rewards.

 

[MrAngryFace]

It'd be hilarious is one of the mounts was a siege tank.

 

[Suikoguy]

WoW has such possiblities for RvR, i hope they use them!

But I read in a post that PvP Honor System (Between Players) was scrapped. So while you get a bonus "something" For killing a similar level player, you lose nothing for killing a level 2 player as level 15, etc.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=158908&p=1&tmp=1#post158908

I hope thats not a sign of things to come.

 

[MrAngryFace]

I dont know why blizzard seems to think people wouldnt kill low level people just to be assholes.

 

[firex]

wow, they changed that. all the more reason to avoid pvp servers, as if the community on those wasn't bad enough.

 

[Kintaro]

I dont know why blizzard seems to think people wouldnt kill low level people just to be assholes.

Then again... according to Blizzard's FAQ...

Can I camp another players corpse in PVP?
- Actions that would typically be considered “dishonorable actions” such as, but not limited to; corpse camping, graveyard camping, or instance zone camping are considered PvP mechanics and are not considered harassment on a PVP server.

Can I grief/harass a player from the opposite faction on a PvP server?
- The Ongoing Harassment policy does not apply on the PvP server when there is a PvP resolution available. Characters have the ability to deal with their conflicts through combat and Game Masters will only involve themselves in extreme circumstance

It's not that they don't think so...it's that they don't care. It's 'PvP mechanics"

 

[firex]

I know why they changed it too, they were too stupid to get around the problem of getting attacked by low levels first. You could have a bunch of level 20 people attacking a level 50, and if the level 50 kills them he gets a bunch of dishonorable kills even if it's self-defense.

 

[Zaptruder]

Nah, they could solve it by flagging who initiated combat first.

but they probably didn't think that far ahead and any attempts to do that now would be a major programming exercise.

 

[Kintaro]

So they pretty much fucked themselves in the ass.

I like the game playing as my new NE Rogue...but not sure I'll keep playing after the trial is over. I know it's nature of the beast with this sort of genre, but man, I read a lot of things in the manual and guide and then look at the game and some shit (esp. for Warriors) ended up being taken out. I consider myself a decently informed gamer but I knew jack all of any of that. Hate to see a casual's reaction.

 

[firex]

Nah, they could solve it by flagging who initiated combat first.

but they probably didn't think that far ahead and any attempts to do that now would be a major programming exercise.

that's what I'm saying, they didn't. you used to get dishonorable kills no matter who initiated combat in the beta, but that was before they put in the effect of honorable/dishonorable kills (which they never did).

 

[MrAngryFace]

Im bothered that they dont think griefing is a problem, because it SERIOUSLY is.