What are your thoughts on next gen consoles won't see a significant leap in GPU?

Mr. PlayStation

Mr. PlayStation

Member
So came across the below info on Era that only CPU & SSD would be the true leap and that next gen consoles won't see a significant leap in GPU. what are your thoughts GAF?

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Isn't raytracing a big jump in lighting? Otherwise, graphics are already good, we need improvements in gameplay, and a better CPU can help with that.
 
We don't know how powerfull the gpu are gonna be.

But an hypotetical 10tf gpu is like 5-6 times better than 1.84 tf of base ps4.

Games are not developed with ps4 pro or xone x in mind, but with the base console in mind.

So devs are gonna switch from creating games on less than 2 tf with shitty cpu to 10+tf with modern cpu (and an ssd), i'm a noob with technical stuff but it doesn't seems a small jump at all...
 
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It's probably true, and I've been saying as much since the rumored power levels started to appear.

Compared to Xbox One X you're simply not going to get that huge of a jump in graphics. Yes there will be Ray-Tracing hardware, but it remains to be seen what AMD will do for their solution and this is AMDs first generation implementation. Wouldn't surprise me if the Ray-Tracing in the consoles turns out less impressive than even the first generation of RTX, which will be over two years old by the time next-gen consoles launch.
 
Leonidas said:
It's probably true, and I've been saying as much since the rumored power levels started to appear.

Compared to Xbox One X you're simply not going to get that huge of a jump in graphics. Yes there will be Ray-Tracing hardware, but it remains to be seen what AMD will do for their solution and this is AMDs first generation implementation. Wouldn't surprise me if the Ray-Tracing in the consoles turns out less impressive than even the first generation of RTX, which will be over two years old by the time next-gen consoles launch.
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Game who are created with only xone x in mind doesn't even exist because they are slowed down by base console.

So you really haven't see nothing of what a xone x is really capable of...
 
I think he just phrased it badly.... he probably means that CPU and loading will be the most significant jump forward, that is partly due to how gimped the PS4 and Xbox One cpus were this gen.

The GPU's this generation were quite capable and showed in the progress made throughout the past few years. The new GPU's are still a significant jump but not quite as dramatic as the CPU.
 
1. They won't use ray tracing majorly it ain't happening
2. If it's about GPU I'm more interested in ram capacity and bandwidth.
3. What's the point of having the fastest ssd to feed a mediocre GPU?
4. It's a game console not a office Excel word document pc so I believe it'll have a major leap in GPU!
 
Ar¢tos said:
Isn't raytracing a big jump in lighting? Otherwise, graphics are already good, we need improvements in gameplay, and a better CPU can help with that.
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On current implementation it's not a significant leap, until they properly utilise it with console first party studios and not some add-on on pc games which are traditionally made with console hardware in mind
 
Oh, it'll be a big jump in GPU capability, it just naturally won't be as big of a leap as the CPU and storage because these are actually pretty decent this time around and were pretty bad last time even on the enhanced consoles.
 
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We must be realistic.

And compare to base models, so then Leap is big enough.

Not possible to make console with 10x basemodel tflops AND cheap enough price.

My only concern is that they will WASTE most of the perf into stupid 4k.

5x perf @ 1080p would give us impressive improvements

5x perf @ 4k = maybe 60-80% wasted into resolution
 
Well... the reality is that the jump in mid-high end performance you on the PC side hasn't been significant in the last 4-5 years either and we know that consoles now use customised PC parts from AMD. I think the next gen consoles will be looking at something like a custom 5700 XT with a sprinkling of raytracing support.

Native 4k at high/ultra settings at decent framerates is still a problem for the vast majority of the GPUs on the market, and then when you add raytracing to the mix things look even less respectable from a performance standpoint.

This is why I laugh when people talk about the next generation of HDMI on consoles and 4k @ 120fps. What gpu on the market today is capable of doing so in modern AA/AAA games? That's right, none. So Microsoft and Sony will throw all these buzzwords out there like they usually do - 8k, 4k, ray tracing, 120fps, etc, etc. But the harsh reality is the fact that you won't see any of the above in combination and you will be lucky to see any of them in their purest form.

If they want to push raytracing then games will not be native 4k, never mind 8k (say hello to the next generation of checkerboard rendering solutions) and you will be looking at 30fps.

There's a reason why the current sweet spot for most PC gamers is 1440p @60-144Hz rather than 4k @30-60hz. Even those with the best hardware you can have often shoot for that former resolution and refresh rate combo over the latter. It's quite simply a much better overall gaming experience.

The CPU's in consoles were always going to be the area where they stand to gain the most moving to next gen. Things have steadily progressed there in the last 5 years and it comes at a time when AMD are having the biggest resurgence they have ever had from a CPU standpoint. The CPU's in the current generation of consoles are also a joke and are typically outpaced by current generation mobile phone CPU's from the likes of snapdragon.
 
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Bryank75 said:
Mid-gen refresh!
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I personally hate midgen refreshes but on the other hand if they are to push ps5 or Scarlett to the max they'll have to run at 1080p so a midgen 4k refresh console is inevitable

But if they want to have mediocre graphics improvement and forcibly force every next gen game at 1440p and 4k then a midgen refresh isn't needed,

I think Microsoft and Sony are stuck in the middle they know 90 percent of console gamers have 1080p TVs and they can push graphics to Max and easily achieve 60fps but then theirs the 4k mob and are forced to deliver nextgen at 4k anyhow.

Personally if ps5 and Xbox Scarlett run at 4k with a significant graphics leap and cost 700-1000$ I have no shame in supporting them.
 
Where have you been Sony and MS dont want to talk graphics at all. They just want to talk about their fancy SSD drive implementation. Next gen will be the smallest leap yet on the graphics side. Won't even get a ton of 60fps either when RT gets over used to sell games and graphic cards.
 
quest said:
Where have you been Sony and MS dont want to talk graphics at all. They just want to talk about their fancy SSD drive implementation. Next gen will be the smallest leap yet on the graphics side. Won't even get a ton of 60fps either when RT gets over used to sell games and graphic cards.
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They won't overuse raytracing I bet my life 90 percent of games won't use it simply because traditional methods work and allows them to push visuals more than raytracing, on current implementation raytracing is all about lights, shadows reflections things that traditional methods will improve anyway with next gen hardware and have room for other more stuff packed on the vram like textures and polygons,

The only real scenario I have no doubt they'll use ray tracing is racing games! GT sport had already been experimenting with it which looks like ps5 devkit,



Lastly I'm not sure it'll be a big leap since we haven't got the real specs on vram capacity and bandwidth which is the single most important hardware in graphics and since ram prices are too high then Sony and Microsoft can't afford enough vram on a 500$ price which people cry over. So if it's 24-32 GB then itll be really a significant leap considering they use the ssd, ssG, reram as virtual ram aswell.
 
Shangounchained said:
They won't overuse raytracing I bet my life 90 percent of games won't use it simply because traditional methods work and allows them to push visuals more than raytracing, on current implementation raytracing is all about lights, shadows reflections things that traditional methods will improve anyway with next gen hardware and have room for other more stuff packed on the vram like textures and polygons,

The only real scenario I have no doubt they'll use ray tracing is racing games! GT sport had already been experimenting with it which looks like ps5 devkit,



Lastly I'm not sure it'll be a big leap since we haven't got the real specs on vram capacity and bandwidth which is the single most important hardware in graphics and since ram prices are too high then Sony and Microsoft can't afford enough vram on a 500$ price which people cry over. So if it's 24-32 GB then itll be really a significant leap considering they use the ssd, ssG, reram as virtual ram aswell.
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Thing is it looks like nvidia and AMD are writing checks to get RT into games. Makes sense for them it will be the selling point of 500 dollar plus graphic cards. We are seeing it already in PC ports RT being shoehorned in. What publisher is going to turn down a nvidia check? They will tell the programmers make it work.

On the ram 16 gigs is a very real possibility also to keep costs down. They will need to cut costs some places ram might be it if they are using SSD as a virtual ram.
 
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quest said:
Thing is it looks like nvidia and AMD are writing checks to get RT into games. Makes sense for them it will be the selling point of 500 dollar plus graphic cards. We are seeing it already in PC ports RT being shoehorned in. What publisher is going to turn down a nvidia check? They will tell the programmers make it work.

On the ram 16 gigs is a very real possibility also to keep costs down. They will need to cut costs some places ram might be it if they are using SSD as a virtual ram.
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Yes Nvidia and AMD want to push raytracing but console makers, game developers and even gamers don't care and it's the consoles that have a big say in gaming, developers wouldn't waste rendering resources on raytraced shadows and reflections to sacrifice geometry etxyre resolution and alot of ram they will always prioritise traditional methods over raytracing!

And if it's 16gb then we're doomed 16gb on a pc GPU is ok because system ram is still available but on console this is all you have shared between CPU , GPU and os so to have next gen visuals next gen assets improved ai and physics bigger worlds and the rumored 8k 120 FPS is impossible, the rumored Dev kits are 24-32 GB anyway so I'll put my bets on 32 GB consoles at 600$ since both Microsoft and Sony want to go big next gen and also beat stadias 16gb!
 
We'll see an improvement on all fronts, from AI to more dynamic worlds etc, due to them using a respectable CPU this time around.
But I don't think we'll see a huge improvement in graphics. Improvement sure, but a huge one, no.
And I don't think ps5 will have true raytracing, just look at metro or bf5 on the pc, it struggles even on the 2080ti. But I'm guessing we're gonna start seeing some hybrid raytracing solutions with the new wave of consoles.
 
Elektro_Demon said:
We'll see an improvement on all fronts, from AI to more dynamic worlds etc, due to them using a respectable CPU this time around.
But I don't think we'll see a huge improvement in graphics. Improvement sure, but a huge one, no.
And I don't think ps5 will have true raytracing, just look at metro or bf5 on the pc, it struggles even on the 2080ti. But I'm guessing we're gonna start seeing some hybrid raytracing solutions with the new wave of consoles.
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You won't see any significant improvement with low ram if graphics suffer the whole thing suffers, computers depend on memory no matter how powerful the CPU is no matter how fast the ssd is if ram is low then all that goes to waste.
 
Shangounchained said:
You won't see any significant improvement with low ram if graphics suffer the whole thing suffers, computers depend on memory no matter how powerful the CPU is no matter how fast the ssd is if ram is low then all that goes to waste.
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Well with them talking 8K they have to include a lot of Ram.
 
DESTROYA said:
Well with them talking 8K they have to include a lot of Ram.
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They have to. Unless they meant current PS4 and Scarlett games to run at 8k on next gen consoles and not actuall next gen games to run at 8k but basically any computer especially dealing with graphics and games memory is the most important thing and I have a feeling at 500$ were not getting any huge improvement and if we're getting alot of memory then it'll be 600-800$
 
That this rumor mongering is dumb shit and folks should stop whipping themselves into a frenzy over something they have no information about.
 
Shangounchained said:
They have to. Unless they meant current PS4 and Scarlett games to run at 8k on next gen consoles and not actuall next gen games to run at 8k but basically any computer especially dealing with graphics and games memory is the most important thing and I have a feeling at 500$ were not getting any huge improvement and if we're getting alot of memory then it'll be 600-800$
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I wouldn't be surprised if the PS5 had 8GB of RAM and 8GB of VRAM, the way Mark Cerny described some aspects of the new system, it seems like Sony is going all in to ensure they aren't beaten by Microsoft
 
Shangounchained said:
On current implementation it's not a significant leap, until they properly utilise it with console first party studios and not some add-on on pc games which are traditionally made with console hardware in mind
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The first round of games - mostly BFV - was really underwhelming. But lately the tech has been used to very good effect. Games like Control and Metro Exodus show the tech much better.

Despite what console warriors think, people don't actually need Sony and MS to tell them what to do.
 
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DESTROYA said:
I wouldn't be surprised if the PS5 had 8GB of RAM and 8GB of VRAM, the way Mark Cerny described some aspects of the new system, it seems like Sony is going all in to ensure they aren't beaten by Microsoft
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What's the point of having 8gb ram and 8gb vram, it's a gaming console not a pc the is doesn't need all 8gb 4gb ddr3 is enough for os plus the fast ssd and 8gb isn't enough for vram, PS4 had 5.6 vram so 8gb isnt an upgrade with 8gb all you'll get is how current gen games run on pc,

For god's sake Xbox one X has 12gb
 
diffusionx said:
The first round of games - mostly BFV - was really underwhelming. But lately the tech has been used to very good effect. Games like Control and Metro Exodus show the tech much better.

Despite what console warriors think, people don't actually need Sony and MS to tell them what to do.
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Metro exodus with raytracing still doesn't show any significant difference compared to consoles because it's a current gen game designed on consoles with console assets, yes raytracing is a new tech but sorry it isn't enough to sacrifice performance and other improvements just to get some shadows and reflections it's ridiculous
 
Shangounchained said:
What's the point of having 8gb ram and 8gb vram, it's a gaming console not a pc the is doesn't need all 8gb 4gb ddr3 is enough for os plus the fast ssd and 8gb isn't enough for vram, PS4 had 5.6 vram so 8gb isnt an upgrade with 8gb all you'll get is how current gen games run on pc,

For god's sake Xbox one X has 12gb
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Game consoles today are basically PC's these days. OK double the VRAM to 16GB....lol
 
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Shangounchained said:
Metro exodus with raytracing still doesn't show any significant difference compared to consoles because it's a current gen game designed on consoles with console assets, yes raytracing is a new tech but sorry it isn't enough to sacrifice performance and other improvements just to get some shadows and reflections it's ridiculous
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Just read the headline dude.

www.eurogamer.net

Control PC: a vision for the future of real-time rendering?

Last week, we posed the question: has ray tracing finally found its killer app? While Minecraft RTX and Quake 2 RTX hav…
www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net

Obviously it comes with a big performance hit, it's much more advanced technology. The same will be true of consoles, they're not magic. Ray tracing is expensive technology.
 
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DESTROYA said:
Game consoles today are basically PC's these days.
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Pc or not is not what's important here, we're talking about a fresh new generation of consoles ps5 and Xbox Scarlett and to have 8gb of vram is a joke Xbox one X has 12gb so who in his right sober brain would do such a kindergarten mistake and put 8gb on a ps5. 24-32gb is the target and this is what's leaked on Dec kits
 
Shangounchained said:
Pc or not is not what's important here, we're talking about a fresh new generation of consoles ps5 and Xbox Scarlett and to have 8gb of vram is a joke Xbox one X has 12gb so who in his right sober brain would do such a kindergarten mistake and put 8gb on a ps5. 24-32gb is the target and this is what's leaked on Dec kits
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Well if the leaked info is true then you shouldn't worry about it not having enough:messenger_winking:
 
I'd say it's best to wait and see.
Everyone was going on about how this current gen wasn't a significant leap over the last, how it was more of a Ps3.5 than a true next gen and so on.

But then going back to most last gen games running on last gen hardware is like:
tenor.gif
 
diffusionx said:
Just read the headline dude.

www.eurogamer.net

Control PC: a vision for the future of real-time rendering?

Last week, we posed the question: has ray tracing finally found its killer app? While Minecraft RTX and Quake 2 RTX hav…
www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net

Obviously it comes with a big performance hit, it's much more advanced technology. The same will be true of consoles, they're not magic.
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Digital foundry always get excited with every new released game, they said rdr2 was the greatest they said God of war was, they said ghost of tsushima was the best they've seen they simply get too excited,

Again control doesn't impress me this is another case of throwing in tech just for the sake of it, the game is played around corridors with a bunch or raytraced shadows lights and reflections, so what? ....... It's still a PS4 and Xbox one port besides the tweaked and enhanced resolution high FPS and raytraced effects it's still a console game at heart.
 
DESTROYA said:
I wouldn't be surprised if the PS5 had 8GB of RAM and 8GB of VRAM, the way Mark Cerny described some aspects of the new system, it seems like Sony is going all in to ensure they aren't beaten by Microsoft
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Separate ram pools is a bad idea. More data needs to be copied between them, adding latency and filling the ram with unnecessary dupe data.
 
Both yes and no - if the rumors/leaks are somehow correct, we are talking about even 10x more TF compared to base XB1, not even counting that RDNA's TFlops are ~40% more efficient than GCN. Not to mention RT that will offload some of the heaviest tasks fron CUs. But on the other hand, X1X elevated the specs and performance really high - 6TF, 12GB RAM, 4K60 already in 1st party games, so compared to that I'd say we are realistically talking about 2-3x more capable consoles. Which is more than fine if you ask me, especially considering the price.
 
I don't think most people are going to see a substantial difference. The only difference we may see are in lighting with ray tracing and higher framerates.

Will games look better? Of course they will the PS5 and new Xbox will be the new base meta for game developers. I just don't think there will be huge graphically leaps.
 
ethomaz said:
1.84TFs to anything over 10TFs is a substantial jump.

Bigger than PS3 to PS4.

Is ERA lacking maths?


From 1.84TFs in PlayStation case.
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Its not bigger than ps3 to ps4, PS3 had 230.4 giga flops and PS4 1.8 that's 8x and ps5 is rumoured to have 14 teraflops that's also 8x the big difference however is that PS3 had 512mb of ram and ps4 8gb that's 16x, and if ps5 had 16x the ram that'll be 128gb

However if rumours are true and we get 24gb or 32 + the superfast proprietary ssd, ssg on that machine or the also rumoured reram on ps5 then that 16x memory gap would be a reality!
 
Shangounchained said:
They won't overuse raytracing I bet my life 90 percent of games won't use it simply because traditional methods work and allows them to push visuals more than raytracing, on current implementation raytracing is all about lights, shadows reflections things that traditional methods will improve anyway with next gen hardware and have room for other more stuff packed on the vram like textures and polygons,

The only real scenario I have no doubt they'll use ray tracing is racing games! GT sport had already been experimenting with it which looks like ps5 devkit,



Lastly I'm not sure it'll be a big leap since we haven't got the real specs on vram capacity and bandwidth which is the single most important hardware in graphics and since ram prices are too high then Sony and Microsoft can't afford enough vram on a 500$ price which people cry over. So if it's 24-32 GB then itll be really a significant leap considering they use the ssd, ssG, reram as virtual ram aswell.
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Quoting this because you said you bet your life :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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Celcius said:
Quoting this because you said you bet your life :messenger_tears_of_joy:
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It's one of the easiest things to bet on, ever since I saw ray tracings implementation on current pc games I knew there's no way in this dimension time and space were living in that developers will make it the norm on consoles for the sake of rendering a puddle reflection or a shadow.
 
Shangounchained said:
Its not bigger than ps3 to ps4, PS3 had 230.4 giga flops and PS4 1.8 that's 8x and ps5 is rumoured to have 14 teraflops that's also 8x the big difference however is that PS3 had 512mb of ram and ps4 8gb that's 16x, and if ps5 had 16x the ram that'll be 128gb

However if rumours are true and we get 24gb or 32 + the superfast proprietary ssd, ssg on that machine or the also rumoured reram on ps5 then that 16x memory gap would be a reality!
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But that 230 gflops figure was GPU related only. There was also the gflops value for Cell which increasingly became part of the graphics rendering.

Cell plus RSX delivered more than 400 gflops.
 
For me personally, any rumors about PS5's GPU's being potentially under powered need to be taken with a HUGE grain of salt when there are rampant rumors of Scarlett still being a thing after so much dancing. I have no reason at all to believe this author in particular would help spread false rumors to negate the Scarlett news. But I have no doubt in my mind that it would be basic chess play for console manufacturers to get such a word out.
 
Shangounchained said:
Its not bigger than ps3 to ps4, PS3 had 230.4 giga flops and PS4 1.8 that's 8x and ps5 is rumoured to have 14 teraflops that's also 8x the big difference however is that PS3 had 512mb of ram and ps4 8gb that's 16x, and if ps5 had 16x the ram that'll be 128gb

However if rumours are true and we get 24gb or 32 + the superfast proprietary ssd, ssg on that machine or the also rumoured reram on ps5 then that 16x memory gap would be a reality!
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PS3 had Cell helping in graphics.
Only Cell has 230 GFs.

PS4 is about 5x stronger than PS3.
 
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