Support NeoGAF

[Sriram]

Can anyone here tell me exactly what makes a superhero super and not just a regular hero? Its just that quite a few of my friends dont seem to agree with me that bats is a superhero cause he doesnt have powers.
Personally I think hes a superhero cause he is a hero for a 'living' as well as being anonymous. And the gadgets are a good substitute for superpowers.

Anyway, what do you guys think about this?

 

[commish]

Batman is no superhero.

 

[MC Safety]

Batman routinely faces off against villains with superhuman powers. That, to my mind, makes him super (beyond) heroic.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

superhero

SYLLABICATION: su·per·he·ro
PRONUNCIATION: spr-hîr
NOUN: Inflected forms: pl. su·per·he·roes
1)A figure, especially in a comic strip or cartoon, endowed with superhuman powers and usually portrayed as fighting evil or crime.; 2)any person who wears their underpants outside thier clothes.

 

[Iceman]

Batman soap.. I dub thee Superhero Batman soap.

Rise a dark soapy knight of superherodom.

 

[Crag Dweller]

2)any person who wears their underpants outside thier clothes.

Damn, I didn't know I was a superhero. Cool.

 

[Sriram]

Batman routinely faces off against villains with superhuman powers. That, to my mind, makes him super (beyond) heroic.

I thought that was quite a good reason aswell. This also makes lex luther a supervillain though right? Cause he fights against someone with superpowers.

 

[karasu]

dude it was just a word to sell books to kids. It isn't that important. In most profiles nowadays they're labeled as 'Adventurers', 'crime fighters' etc etc. If a guy dresses in a costume and goes around karate kicking people, chances are he fits right in.

 

[MC Safety]

I thought that was quite a good reason aswell. This also makes lex luther a supervillain though right? Cause he fights against someone with superpowers.

I would say when you routinely attack a guy who could punch God in the mouth, that makes you a supervillain.

Although the new Lex Luthor is just a businessman, right? Didn't he become president or some hoohah?

 

[commish]

What real superhero could Batman defeat? Let's say, Magneto. What is Batman gonna do?

Batman is no superhero. Against a real superhero, he's pathetic. Against a random street thug, he owns.

 

[MC Safety]

What real superhero could Batman defeat? Let's say, Magneto. What is Batman gonna do?

Batman is no superhero. Against a real superhero, he's pathetic. Against a random street thug, he owns.

I suggest you read Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns.

 

[Sriram]

commish, in DKR (and one other time I think) batman beat the living shit out of superman. Granted, he had a suit powered by gotham city (through a street lamp :lol) but still, hes got genius, wit and determination unmathced by any other superhero.

Edit: speaking of batman, does anyone here know where to find a good image of bats using the bat-binoculars whilst on clinging to the side of a building?

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

 

[karasu]

What real superhero could Batman defeat? Let's say, Magneto. What is Batman gonna do?

Batman is no superhero. Against a real superhero, he's pathetic. Against a random street thug, he owns.

Well seeing how these characters are only limited by the writers imaginations, Batman can beat anybody the writers want him to beat. He'll hit magneto in the back of the head with a pipe, throw kryptonite in supermans mouth, drop an electrified gamma sapping prison onto the hulk sapping all of his strength, he'd trip the flash, throw Ice water on the human torch, micowave Reed Richards, spin kick Dr Doom, etc etc etc. The writer willalways make sur ethat the odds are tipped in batmans favor, because apparently being human isn't enough. Theys ay he has no superpowers, but he has plenty. They only choose not to specify.

 

[commish]

I suggest you read Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns.

What I know about Batman could hit on the back of a matchbox - a few comics here, a movie there, a TV show in-between. Last I read of Batman, Bane (I think) owned him, then I stopped with comics.

Give me the quick and dirty version.

 

[commish]

commish, in DKR (and one other time I think) batman beat the living shit out of superman. Granted, he had a suit powered by gotham city (through a street lamp :lol) but still, hes got genius, wit and determination unmathced by any other superhero.

Don't get me started on Superman. I'm glad to see Batman beat his ass. I'm gonna look into this series

 

[Sriram]

If your going to look into DK returns, makesure not to mistake it with dark knight strikes back , for which the general consensus is that it sucks.

Oh Batman also kicked superman about quite a bit in red son, where he used special lamps that resembled kryptons sun and made his powers disapear.

By the way, red son was a great reccomendation from GAF, I especially liked the ending

 

[karasu]

why do people talk about this like it has any relevance with continuity? It's a future that will never happen.

 

[Fresh Prince]

It's not the powers that the hero has that is super. It is the deeds that the hero does that is super.

 

[MC Safety]

What I know about Batman could hit on the back of a matchbox - a few comics here, a movie there, a TV show in-between. Last I read of Batman, Bane (I think) owned him, then I stopped with comics.

Give me the quick and dirty version.

An elderly Batman defeated an elderly Superman.

Anyway, Batman has fought plenty of supervillians and won. Is it implausible? Sure. I used to wince when I worked for Wizard: The Comics Magazine and we'd do these features on who would win a battle royale if all the Justice League members fought. All the arguments boiled down to, well, Batman would find a way to win. The same thing with the Avengers -- Captain America is the world's greatest fighting machine, and would eventually emerge victorious.

It's just stories. And the great thing about them is that you can dress a smart guy up in a suit and he can do these superheroic things and he can fight against (and beat) villains with powers and abilities far beyond his own.

 

[Sriram]

Why cant it have continuity? I always looked at it as happening after every other batman story. So basicly the future will never be reached so this story can fit perfectly within the universe.

 

[Sriram]

Also, batman isnt just any guy though, hes a borderline psycho. As he said once regarding superman (not word for word) "when it comes down to it, the difference between me and him is that, when it comes down to it, he could never kill a man, but I could."

Im sure he said that once and Im not making it up...

 

[border]

Batman's a superhero. He fights mega-villains. He's on the Justice League. He has abilities beyond that of the normal person.

 

[EekTheKat]

Derailing a bit :

Thanks to this forum I got a good laugh out of stuff like The Punisher kills the Marvel Universe .

 

[Asbel]

Also, batman isnt just any guy though, hes a borderline psycho. As he said once regarding superman (not word for word) "when it comes down to it, the difference between me and him is that, when it comes down to it, he could never kill a man, but I could."

Im sure he said that once and Im not making it up...

As a fan of both Superman and Batman, you're wrong.

Bats would kill someone no sooner than Supes, who already has. There's a reason Nightwing is afraid to tell Bats about killing Blockbuster.

I believe what you wanted to quote is more like 'deep down, Clark is a decent guy, while deep down, I'm not.'

As for the rest, I agree with karasu.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

All my favorite superheroes play baseball. Will Clark. Ryne Sandberg. Cal Ripken Jr.

Even Batman and Superman.

 

[MC Safety]

As a fan of both Superman and Batman, you're wrong.

Bats would kill someone no sooner than Supes, who already has. There's a reason Nightwing is afraid to tell Bats about killing Blockbuster.

I believe what you wanted to quote is more like 'deep down, Clark is a decent guy, while deep down, I'm not.'

As for the rest, I agree with karasu.

In his early days, Batman routinely threw criminals off of rooftops. Batman in the -- and dear God, please forgive me for saying this -- "modern continuity" doesn't kill.

 

[Sriram]

Ah thanks, Asbel thats the one. My batman history is a bit rusty at best but on superman I dont know too much sadly.

I guess everyone has agreed to the original post then, so I might as well ask something else.
Whats everyones reccomendations for DC graphic novels (batman and supes in particular)?

 

[Seth C]

The writers can't make Superman win a battle with Batman because then Batman would be left DEAD.

 

[Sriram]

In his early days, Batman routinely threw criminals off of roofs. Batman in the -- and dear God, please forgive me for saying this -- "modern continuity" doesn't kill.

It goes without saying that the batman of now is a vastly different character to what he started out as. He also used to use guns which is something that we would never see now.

 

[ShadowRed]

In his early days, Batman routinely threw criminals off of roofs. Batman in the -- and dear God, please forgive me for saying this -- "modern continuity" doesn't kill.

Not only that but in his early days Superman used to kill people also. I'm reminded of one time Superman is interigating a thug by holding him over the side of a building and saying something like, "Tell me what i want to know or Ill drop you." The guy tells him and he still drops him off the building.

 

[Tamanon]

Also don't forget that Bats also has that Kryptonite ring.

I seem to recall a JL TPB about somebody neutralizing all the League members because they stole Batman's emergency plans that he would use against each individual member if the need arose.

 

[FoneBone]

Derailing a bit :

Thanks to this forum I got a good laugh out of stuff like The Punisher kills the Marvel Universe .

I thought that was pretty good, although I can't buy the idea of the Marvel heroes all being so damn easy to kill.

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Although the new Lex Luthor is just a businessman, right? Didn't he become president or some hoohah?

Not anymore. President Luthor kinda went nuts and publicly attacked Superman/Batman, after a Kryptonite meteor threatened to destroy the Earth. Luthor's been MIA since the incident (he's still alive though, of course), but his VP Pete Ross is president now, and acting CEO Talia Head (Rhas Al Ghul's daughter) sold much of LexCorp off to other corporations including Wayne Enterprises.

So when Lex does finally make his triumphant return, it'll probably be as his old mad scientist, power-armored supervillain self.

And everything you need to know about Batman versus metahumans can be summed up in two words: PREP TIME.

 

[BastardSamurai]

I seem to recall a JL TPB about somebody neutralizing all the League members because they stole Batman's emergency plans that he would use against each individual member if the need arose.

That would be Mark Waid and Howard Porter's "Tower of Babel" story arc (Rhas Al Ghul uses Batman's contingency measures).

EDIT: CAN'T SPELL BAD DUDE'S NAME

 

[J2 Cool]

When being a hero becomes your career, then you're a superhero

 

[EekTheKat]

I thought that was pretty good, although I can't buy the idea of the Marvel heroes all being so damn easy to kill.

lol sorry, meant laugh as in good times laugh. I like the punisher and it was just amusing to see him take down the entire marvel universe like that.

 

[LakeEarth]

The Punisher stuff is just funny. Seems like half the deaths involve them just standing there getting a bullet to the head.

 

[Docpan]

The costume, obviously..

 

[bionic77]

What defines a Hero? Haha, cmon guys this is an easy answer.

He's gotta be strong
and he's gotta be fast

And he's gotta be fresh from the fight.

 

[Shinobi]

:lol

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Why cant it have continuity? I always looked at it as happening after every other batman story. So basicly the future will never be reached so this story can fit perfectly within the universe.

Because it was released as an Elseworlds story. By definition, they don't fit into the official continuity. That's not to say that it couldn't happen, but until it happens in an official run, it doesn't count for anything aside from being able to be referenced in "What if?" arguments that never go anywhere.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

An elderly Batman defeated an elderly Superman.

Anyway, Batman has fought plenty of supervillians and won. Is it implausible? Sure. I used to wince when I worked for Wizard: The Comics Magazine and we'd do these features on who would win a battle royale if all the Justice League members fought. All the arguments boiled down to, well, Batman would find a way to win. The same thing with the Avengers -- Captain America is the world's greatest fighting machine, and would eventually emerge victorious.

It's just stories. And the great thing about them is that you can dress a smart guy up in a suit and he can do these superheroic things and he can fight against (and beat) villains with powers and abilities far beyond his own.

YOU WORKED FOR WIZARD~!??!?! all right, give it up. who were you?

a superhero is generally defined (at least in the DC universe) as anyone who posseses paranormal abilities or the meta-gene which when activated makes them a meta-human.
(like the flash or black canary) or as civilians in the DCU call them 'capes" batman however doesnt see himself as a superhero and probably has disdain for most of them (except superman, wonder woman, martian manhunter) because they make themselves targets (bright customes) and lack the proper training. he sees himself more as a crimefighter, a detective.

 

[FoneBone]

Because it was released as an Elseworlds story.

It wasn't. Though the point about it not being in continuity still applies.

 

[MC Safety]

YOU WORKED FOR WIZARD~!??!?! all right, give it up. who were you?

a superhero is generally defined (at least in the DC universe) as anyone who posseses paranormal abilities or the meta-gene which when activated makes them a meta-human.
(like the flash or black canary) or as civilians in the DCU call them 'capes" batman however doesnt see himself as a superhero and probably has disdain for most of them (except superman, wonder woman, martian manhunter) because they make themselves targets (bright customes) and lack the proper training. he sees himself more as a crimefighter, a detective.

I was, and am, Greg Orlando.

And I can buy DC's definition of a superhero. But I still think it's limited.

 

[FoneBone]

I was, and am, Greg Orlando.

And I can buy DC's definition of a superhero. But I still think it's limited.

Ah, I still fondly remember Old Man Murray's "Greg Orlando Memorial Award"...

 

[Sumidor]

I love how any topic that someone even mentions Batman or Superman.. Doesn't matter what the original topic was, turns into a Batman vs. Superman thread.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Not anymore. President Luthor kinda went nuts and publicly attacked Superman/Batman, after a Kryptonite meteor threatened to destroy the Earth. Luthor's been MIA since the incident (he's still alive though, of course), but his VP Pete Ross is president now, and acting CEO Talia Head (Rhas Al Ghul's daughter) sold much of LexCorp off to other corporations including Wayne Enterprises.

So when Lex does finally make his triumphant return, it'll probably be as his old mad scientist, power-armored supervillain self.

And everything you need to know about Batman versus metahumans can be summed up in two words: PREP TIME.

just to update on what spike hs said. luthor is back (but in a behind the scenes kinda way)
he's planning to get abck at supes and batman by doing what he does best, paying obcene money to some villains and laughing behind the scenes.
also, when superboy was cloned from superman (back when he was dead and all) they used human DNA because kryptonian DNA was hard to decipher. who's human DNA? luthor's. so superboy is 50% world's greatest hero and 50% world's evilest genius.
pete ross isnt president anymore by the way.

greg orlando? i sure do remenber you. i have a question. in the video-game world there are countless magazines devoted to covering many aspects of the video-game craze. yet, comic books only have one magazine that does this. wizard. why do you suppose that is?

And I can buy DC's definition of a superhero. But I still think it's limited.

yeah, the problem is that for the most part, batman keeps to the shadows so nobody is 100% clear on batman. is he a man or a meta-human? demon? alien? so since every city in the DCU has a customed crime-fighter, batman gets lumped along with the rest of them.for lack of a better term. but he really isnt a traditional superhero.
and he's not the only one. people like ragman and the question or slam bradley or even catwoman arent superheroes but they fight and i quote, "the forces of evil" end quote.

but you gotta look at it from a normal person's point of view. if you see some guy/gal in the street fighting a living lava creature, you gotta assume that they have some 'super' power. otherwise they wouldnt be stupid enough to dress up as santa claus to get themselves immolated in the middle of the street.

 

[MC Safety]

Ah, I still fondly remember Old Man Murray's "Greg Orlando Memorial Award"...

Me, too. But I don't recall the memorial part of it.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

I love how any topic that someone even mentions Batman or Superman.. Doesn't matter what the original topic was, turns into a Batman vs. Superman thread.

[ADAM WEST] such needles bickering will SURELY break apart the justice league old chum[/ADAM WEST]

i love to read both characters books equallyso you wont ever find me arguing something so pointless. aww, who am i kidding? i'm a bigger superman fan. of course they have to have batman "win" (by the way, he didnt "win" during hush, he just knocked a bit of sense into superman who was under a trance, and you'll notice superman was ready to squish him but good until lois got kidnapped..*rant*) otherwise he wouldnt be held in such awe by the superhero community.