What did Sucker Punch work on for 5 years?

I think it's funny to pretend Sony studios (outside of Insomniac apparently) aren't highly mismanaged. Everything we've seen the last few years shows how Sony (and Microsoft, let's not make this a console war) has been highly mismanaged. I guess since third party f2p microtransactions keep making the numbers goes up, investors don't notice Hermen being a bad overseer and he gets to skate by unscathed. It took Sucker Punch six years to make Ghost of Tsushima from scratch. It now took them five years to make a highly iterative sequel. The same can be said for a lot of Sony's more-of-the-same sequels this generation.

Taking this long to push games out the door is just not sustainable. Sony needs to figure something out.
As long as it's not EPD Tokyo (7 years and 9 months between their new games) or Retro Studios (11 years and 9 months between their new games), it's hard to complain. Heck, Team Asobi shipped a GOTY winner in less than 3.5 years!
I mean, in the last five years they released XB1 Remaster, XB3, XB3 expansion, and XCX Remaster. You can try to downplay the remasters as a "you mean the coat of paint?" But that's a hell of a lot more than the company this thread is about released. It's not like they took fives years on this project and remastered Infamous along the way. Hell, I bet this thread wouldn't even exist if that happened.
And SP in the last five years released GoT, GoT remaster (+ Iki Island) and GoY, which sounds about right for a studio half the size.
 
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As long as it's not EPD Tokyo (7 years and 9 months between their new games) or Retro Studios (11 years and 9 months between their new games), it's hard to complain. Heck, Team Asobi shipped a GOTY winner in less than 3.5 years!

And SP in the last five years released GoT, GoT remaster (+ Iki Island) and GoY, which sounds about right for a studio half the size.
You're definitely arguing in bad faith. EPD Tokyo released Bowsers Fury in between Odyssey and Bananza, so that 7 year number is directly coming out of your ass.

Retro has crapped the bed for sure, but even then they were placed on heavy support work after their Wii U game post DKC was canned and they also remade Metroid Prime in a brand new engine in that time. No point in trying to talk to you because you're ignoring facts and just saying stuff.

Also, you keep saying Sucker Punch is half the size as Monolith. Google searches show 160 in 2020 and one result says 260 now. Monolith reported 299 in 2024 but like already mentioned they do a lot of support dev for other Nintendo games. So maybe you're pulling more numbers out of your ass.
 
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It's a trend for Sony sequels this gen. Nintendo did it worse with TOTK. Games costing more to make even tho a lot of the work has already been done.
 
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welcome origin GIF
 
After watching the Yotei reveal, I was stunned as to what did this studio worked for 5 years? What NEW features required 5 years?

Lets break it down.
Game engine and graphics? No, same engine, graphics barely evolved
AI / Physics / Fire/ Fluids simulation - No
Art style - no, this was done.
Music/OST - this can't take so many years.
Story writing - its no Godfather right? Classic revenge story.
World/missions design - done in the 1st game. This barely adds anything truly meaningful. Repetitive open world grinding.

Does motion capture, voice acting take years upon years? What seriously happened?
No Ray tracing, GTA6 and Assassins Creed Shadows have RT GI, this doesn't even have basic RT shadows. Doesn't even have the seasons system from Assassin's Creed Shadows, I bet you shadows will be the better looking game on PC when yotei releases there.
 
Mismanagement of studios only these past few years can be situated to GaaS push. Other than that Sony has always been very good at their portfolio/studio management.

And I suppose now that the GaaS push has been cut in half, 2 years from now it will be back pushing on all cylinders.
 
You're definitely arguing in bad faith. EPD Tokyo released Bowsers Fury in between Odyssey and Bananza, so that 7 year number is directly coming out of your ass.
Okay, under that logic, please explain why you talk of Sucker Punch taking 5 years to release Ghost of Yotei when they had Iki Island in 2021.
Retro has crapped the bed for sure, but even then they were placed on heavy support work after their Wii U game post DKC was canned and they also remade Metroid Prime in a brand new engine in that time. No point in trying to talk to you because you're ignoring facts and just saying stuff.
Heavy support on what, exactly? That Wii U game that got canned was actually being worked as a Switch project, before it was ultimately scrapped in the last half of 2018 when they got appointed to work on Metroid Prime 4.
Talk me about facts, please. That's over 4 years of wasted work, and 7 years of work on le iterative sequel. Oh, and they remade Metroid Prime? Are you talking about the HEAVILY outsourced coat of paint, that was also released 9 years after Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze? Even if you line it with the Switch port of DKCTF, that's close to the timeframe between Ghost of Tsushima and Yotei.
Also, you keep saying Sucker Punch is half the size as Monolith. Google searches show 160 in 2020 and one result says 260 now. Monolith reported 299 in 2024 but like already mentioned they do a lot of support dev for other Nintendo games. So maybe you're pulling more numbers out of your ass.
160 is the only official number and it's rare for studios to grow to that size in that time, especially when SP has barely been hiring. So yes, pretty much half the size.
If we talk about pulling shit out our asses, I'm not the one who claimed that the vast majority of Monolith Soft was doing support work!
 
They spent the 5 years marinating in The Vibe. Seriously.

Similar to Death Stranding's being a way for Kojima to indulge in the maximum extent of his excesses and Hollywood clout chasing, it seems Sucker Punch has taken the Ghost franchise as a vector for their ambassadorship to "Japanese Culture". The dedicated music section and namedropping at the end are things that are only interesting to people working at Sucker Punch and geeks who watch dev diaries.

Yotei comes off less as a focused game and more of a Samurai Media Medley project. Play with this music popularized by this anime, play in that visual mode that poorly replicates these influences that have been recycled to hell and back. You craft your Ghost of Yotei experience! Don't expect us to do it!

The actual game is last generation in every sense and even less creatively inspired than the first game.
 
Ladies and Gentlemen, here we have a future game designer powered by ChatGPT! super fast and optimized!!

I can't wait to see his games!!!


GIF de computadora de Kyle Broflovski de South Park

Fenómeno!
 
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They were probably also working on MMO. After it had been cancelled, they turned some Ghost DLC into a full fledged game. Sony committed software sepuku this generation. 5 years in and I could only think of AstroBot. Effin Helmen and Jim.
 
What about comparisons like this? why are the trolls only cherry picking bad ones?
This is still generous to got. it was 1080p30fps game on ps4

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It's right there. People are psyching themselves out on this. Surprised how this game is breaking the board.
 
They were probably also working on MMO. After it had been cancelled, they turned some Ghost DLC into a full fledged game. Sony committed software sepuku this generation. 5 years in and I could only think of AstroBot. Effin Helmen and Jim.
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It's right there. People are psyching themselves out on this. Surprised how this game is breaking the board.
Look in the other thread voting for most overrated system and it's also ps5.
It's just xbots or pc cry babies. Sadly this forum got heavily tainted by people who just don't like video games.
 
The Japan setting is getting really old and stale, that might be what makes this game feel more of the same (and sadly there are more games with the same setting announced).
 
The boulders were already ugly in Tsushima, so if they using the same engine dont expect big changes. The game, just like Tsushima is much more focused on folliage and vegetation most of the time. Once again is very easy to cherry pick a screenshot from a trailer to make it look dated, and seconds later another screen to make it look next gen.
What kind of excuse is that?

Horizon 2 still run on decima and they improved a a shitload of bad things from zero dawn.

Engines get upgraded to look better, this is exactly why people are calling sucker punch a bunch of lazy fucks.

After 5 years people expected much more.
 
Look in the other thread voting for most overrated system and it's also ps5.
It's just xbots or pc cry babies. Sadly this forum got heavily tainted by people who just don't like video games.

Well somehow, as a community, we are encouraging dumb shit. There are smart threads with dumb posts and dumb threads with smart posts, but damn do the dumb threads get more action.

Also - PSA for motherfuckers in their 40's: Alcohol it the only thing that's good anymore.
 
Does it have ragdolls now? The last game had only canned animations
No, it has the same precanned death animations with no ragdoll in 2025.



Sucker punch is allergic to ragdoll, they probably can't fine tune it so they cut it off entirely to not have silly looking stuff in their samurai game where a 50 kg chick slay thousands of brutes :lollipop_grinning_sweat:
 
I think it looks great. I like it when developers don't go for photorealism, but instead maintain a certain artistic style. And for me, that works with Yotei, just as it did with its predecessor.
 
No, it has the same precanned death animations with no ragdoll in 2025.



Sucker punch is allergic to ragdoll, they probably can't fine tune it so they cut it off entirely to not have silly looking stuff in their samurai game where a 50 kg chick slay thousands of brutes :lollipop_grinning_sweat:
What the hell? The lack of ragdolls were bad 5 years ago but today it is just plain embarrassing and frankly just weird

Especially in a melee focused game you expect to not see the same canned animations over and over

… what have they improved since last time then?
 
What the hell? The lack of ragdolls were bad 5 years ago but today it is just plain embarrassing and frankly just weird

Especially in a melee focused game you expect to not see the same canned animations over and over

… what have they improved since last time then?
Don't ask me, i side-eye any game after the ps2 era who still use precanned death animations with no ragdoll.

Sucker punch should have introduced ragdoll with infamous 1 already, a game where you literally send enemy flying with explosions, but alas...
 
To be fair this IS a sequel they could put out in approx 3 years, perhaps 2. And its not only on Sucker Punch, but many studios today. Death Stranding 2 same, good game, but feels like an expansion of the first. Took 6 years to complete.
 
They spent the 5 years marinating in The Vibe. Seriously.

Similar to Death Stranding's being a way for Kojima to indulge in the maximum extent of his excesses and Hollywood clout chasing, it seems Sucker Punch has taken the Ghost franchise as a vector for their ambassadorship to "Japanese Culture". The dedicated music section and namedropping at the end are things that are only interesting to people working at Sucker Punch and geeks who watch dev diaries.

Yotei comes off less as a focused game and more of a Samurai Media Medley project. Play with this music popularized by this anime, play in that visual mode that poorly replicates these influences that have been recycled to hell and back. You craft your Ghost of Yotei experience! Don't expect us to do it!

The actual game is last generation in every sense and even less creatively inspired than the first game.
All this love for samurai and japanese culture ... with a girlboss lead. Go figure.
 
After watching the Yotei reveal, I was stunned as to what did this studio worked for 5 years? What NEW features required 5 years?

Lets break it down.
Game engine and graphics? No, same engine, graphics barely evolved
AI / Physics / Fire/ Fluids simulation - No
Art style - no, this was done.
Music/OST - this can't take so many years.
Story writing - its no Godfather right? Classic revenge story.
World/missions design - done in the 1st game. This barely adds anything truly meaningful. Repetitive open world grinding.

Does motion capture, voice acting take years upon years? What seriously happened?
Fenómeno, máquina, the assets need to be work on, and game designers work constantly on even the more long living and immutable GaaS, let alone a game with new systems and combat.
 
PhaseDurationDescription
ConceptualizationWeeks to a few monthsFocuses on brainstorming ideas, defining the core concept, and drafting the Game Design Document (GDD). Typically, it lasts 1 to 2 months for more minor games.
Pre-ProductionSeveral weeks to a yearSolidifies design elements and technical requirements, planning the game's structure and defining mechanics.
Production (Development and Art Creation)Months to yearsThe most intensive phase, taking 2 to 3 years for medium to large-scale games, involves asset creation and coding gameplay mechanics.
Quality Assurance (QA)Weeks to monthsFocuses on identifying and fixing bugs, optimizing performance, and fine-tuning gameplay to ensure readiness for launch.
LaunchDays to weeksInvolves final preparations for release, including distribution decisions and marketing efforts.
Post-release MaintenanceOngoingIncludes bug fixes, patches, and updates based on player feedback, along with developing additional content to keep the game engaging.

Now, since this is a AAA open-world game we can use the above table and take the highest values from the examples. So 6 months for Conceptualisation, 1 year for Pre-Production, 3 years for Production plus a few months for QA and Certification and there you go OP, almost 5 years when you draw the line. This is the ideal case where there are no setbacks of missed deadlines and everything just goes buttery smooth, which is almost never the case cause games are very complex pieces of software and multidisciplinary products with a lot of spinning plates during production.
How about we start using critical thinking, a bit of learning and we stop making silly troll threads based on profound ignorance :messenger_winking:

How about you use a little bit of critical thinking yourself? We are discussing a sequel, not a new project from scratch. Why do you think Insomniac was able to release Spider-Man, Miles Moralles, Spider-Man Remastered and Spider-Man 2 in a 5 year window? I'll help, because they didn't have to build or design everything from scratch. Makes sense right?
 
How about you use a little bit of critical thinking yourself? We are discussing a sequel, not a new project from scratch. Why do you think Insomniac was able to release Spider-Man, Miles Moralles, Spider-Man Remastered and Spider-Man 2 in a 5 year window? I'll help, because they didn't have to build or design everything from scratch. Makes sense right?
Thanks for the reply, I was using critical thinking cause if you've noticed I assumed the team worked with an ideal scenario of everything going right and they would have worked on nothing else. However, as others have pointed out they worked on both a good chunk of DLC that includes a whole new island and the PS5 version of the game during these 5 years. Which means Yotei didn't take 5 years of dev time to begin with and it was probably closer to 3, is it not? If we use that critical thinking we both talk about.

Insomniac has multiple teams working on their games while Sucker Punch just has one so there's that to consider as well when comparing output. Finally, even though this is a sequel and as much as people complain about no massive graphical upgrade, they still had to build a new open-world, textures, models, characters, gameplay systems, etc.

So, to answer your initial question, yes, I have been using critical thinking, have you?
 
Heavy support on what, exactly? That Wii U game that got canned was actually being worked as a Switch project, before it was ultimately scrapped in the last half of 2018 when they got appointed to work on Metroid Prime 4.
Talk me about facts, please. That's over 4 years of wasted work, and 7 years of work on le iterative sequel. Oh, and they remade Metroid Prime? Are you talking about the HEAVILY outsourced coat of paint, that was also released 9 years after Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze? Even if you line it with the Switch port of DKCTF, that's close to the timeframe between Ghost of Tsushima and Yotei.
First off, I already said Retro crapped the bed so I don't now why you're preaching about retro. I was just refuting your claim that they went 11 years without a release.

Also, you keep calling releases "coat of paint" as if GoY isn't highly iterative and reuses assets. Hell, you could argue Sucker Punch spent four years on a coat of paint.

The premise of this thread really got you triggered.

Also, to assume a studio (whose last reported headcount was 160 in 2020) didn't grow as they began work on a new game for a new console and to base your entire argument on it is foolish. You're talking out of your ass and bending reality to make Sucker Punch look good while trying to drag down other developers. Sucker punch was 160 as of 2020 and monolith was 299 as of December 2024. Trying to pretend sucker punch is half of Monolith still when a quick Google search pegs them around 260 is arguing in bad faith.

Here I'll throw you a bone so you don't think I'm just some fanboy console warring. It's inexcusable that it took Nintendo 6 years to make Tears of the Kingdom considering what we got. Just like I find it inexcusable for most Sony studios to take so long making what they bring to market this gen. And it's not just Sony. 90% of Xbox games fall in this category and several Nintendo studios do as well. But this will be my last reply to you, it's clear what you're doing here.

P.s. Regarding my monolith comment about "a majority" doing support work. I edited that comment almost immediately after posting it. You can check the time stamp. I changed it to "a significant amount" which is factually correct. You just replied to my post too fast to catch it.
 
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I don't know for sure, but there's a good chance this game was done last year. Nintendo has lots of games done way before release, sometimes a year. Who's to say Sony isn't the same?

I think TotK delay was just a scheduling thing, not really a dev thing.
 
I don't know for sure, but there's a good chance this game was done last year. Nintendo has lots of games done way before release, sometimes a year. Who's to say Sony isn't the same?

I think TotK delay was just a scheduling thing, not really a dev thing.
I had this thought. I was thinking about what if Sony sat on DS2 and GoY for a while to drop them now to show they have a big game each quarter from here on out. I'd love to see that and it's make the gap on releases lately worth it.
 
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Fenómeno, máquina, the assets need to be work on, and game designers work constantly on even the more long living and immutable GaaS, let alone a game with new systems and combat.
Sony studios mostly subhire asset creation to Chinese sweatshops studios.
Uncharted 4 had 6 or 7 listed in the credits.
 
I don't know for sure, but there's a good chance this game was done last year. Nintendo has lots of games done way before release, sometimes a year. Who's to say Sony isn't the same?

I think TotK delay was just a scheduling thing, not really a dev thing.


Game was 'finished' in first half of 2022. Almost a year was spent by the Zelda development team just playing the game over and over and over and over again, debugging, adjusting stats, and polishing it up.

"I wonder how many times I've played the game to debug it," Aonuma pondered. "I've played this game from start to finish about 20 times, and I can say that it's more fun with detours, even more so than in the previous game."

Breath of the Wild was similar, being delayed as a Wii U game, and ultimately being ported and adjusted as a Switch game.

These games are massive, so it takes a long time to clean it up to a level that people would find acceptable, beyond some of the bugged messes we've been seeing from companies like EA. Assassin's Creed Shadow's still has some messy bugs today, but the footage out there from last year suggest it could've been an even bigger mess just like Star Wars Outlaws before it had it not been delayed for tweaks and polish.

Ghost of Tsushima came out pretty clean, so I imagine Yotei is taking a considerable amount of time as well just being tested and debugged through the various new modes, true Japanese lip sync (Tsushima did not have this, despite the false advertising of the Tsushima PS5 rerelease), and new weapons, mechanics, making sure the flower paths actually speed up the horse, and making sure allies like the dog actually work, amongst other tweaks and changes. Game could be "done" but all of that could take a lot of time and play before it's ready for market (unless you're EA and just put it out there and let the early buyer suckers find the bugs, complain about the balance, and generally play test the game for them in time for the game's devaluation and price mark down when the title is fixed to a more playable state with online patches not on the disc.)
 
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Game was 'finished' in first half of 2022. Almost a year was spent by the Zelda development team just playing the game over and over and over and over again, debugging, and polishing it up.

"I wonder how many times I've played the game to debug it," Aonuma pondered. "I've played this game from start to finish about 20 times, and I can say that it's more fun with detours, even more so than in the previous game."

Breath of the Wild was similar, being delayed as a Wii U game, and ultimately being ported and adjusted as a Switch game.

These games are massive, so it takes a long time to clean it up to a level that people would find acceptable, beyond some of the bugged messes we've been seeing from companies like EA. Assassin's Creed Shadow's still has some messy bugs today, but the footage out there from last year suggest it could've been an even bigger mess just like Star Wars Outlaws before it had it not been delayed for tweaks and polish.

Ghost of Tsushima came out pretty clean, so I imagine Yotei is taking a considerable amount of time as well just being tested and debugged through the various new modes, true Japanese lip sync (Tsushima did not have this, despite the false advertising of the Tsushima PS5 rerelease), and new weapons, mechanics, making sure the flower paths actually speed up the horse, and making sure allies like the dog actually work, amongst other tweaks and changes. Game could be "done" but all of that could take a lot of time and play before it's ready for market (unless you're EA and just put it out there and let the early buyer suckers find the bugs, complain about the balance, and generally play test the game for them in time for the game's devaluation and price mark down when the title is fixed to a more playable state with online patches not on the disc.)


Don't disagree with any of this.

Still, Nintendo is Nintendo and proof is in the product.

Tears looks like BOTW but the evolution in gameplay from the first to second is clear and obvious.

Tsushima is not Tears.

Strangely, Yotei is Tsushima, though. Weird.
 
All this love for samurai and japanese culture ... with a girlboss lead. Go figure.
Meh. There's a pretty obvious Kill Bill connection with this as well. The yellow color scheme and revenge tale?

That they haven't taken the opportunity to better the stealth at all is a much crazier thing to me.
 
Sony studios mostly subhire asset creation to Chinese sweatshops studios.
Uncharted 4 had 6 or 7 listed in the credits.
Despite all that it takes time. As we say in coding: nine women don't give birth in one month. I mean, the Zelda guys took longer to reuse the same map and add a cave, c'mon!
 
Meh. There's a pretty obvious Kill Bill connection with this as well. The yellow color scheme and revenge tale?

That they haven't taken the opportunity to better the stealth at all is a much crazier thing to me.
If it was batshit crazy and highly stylized like kill bill it could work, but they are taken seriously, which for me dosent.
 
To be fair this IS a sequel they could put out in approx 3 years, perhaps 2. And its not only on Sucker Punch, but many studios today. Death Stranding 2 same, good game, but feels like an expansion of the first. Took 6 years to complete.

If you choose to forget all the other stuff KojiPro has also been working on, including the Director's Cut expanded reissue from September 2021... and all the ports...

So its unlikely to have been more than 3 years actual dev.
 
Its fine to shit on AC Shadows which looks 100 times better than GoY, but viceversa bad? Cmon. Ubisoft gets a lot of shit, but its still insane to me that GoT and now GoY are basically given free pass(we know why) even though it's pretty much the most non-Ubisoft Ubisoft game from open world design, repetitive mechanics to average story.
Yep. I didn't like RDR2 but I respect it because I can see that it's a beautiful and ambitious game.

And as an enthusiast big empty open world games like Tshusima don't impress me.
 
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