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[Gaiff]

They literally showed you a 20m trailer full of content, most than more content than games even have nowadays. Im sure the story will be awesome, as the 1st game was.

You will be able to see how wrong you are on the DF comparison.

Graphically this game only loses to DS2, and this is judging by a compressed video.

This game does not look better than Rift Apart, Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, AC Shadows, Senua's Saga, Demon's Souls, Spider-Man 2, and more. The graphics tech is pedestrian and carried by the art style, just like the first game.

 

[Poppinfresh]

Are they? how long between releases? Isn't the graphical quality a bit lower and they heavily reuse assets.

And they still make great games.

RGG and Falcom both reuse assets but their average output is better than most Western Devs.

Another great example is Monolithsoft. Within the Switch's lifespan they released multiple titles and multiple long (20+ hour) DLCs.

Meanwhile, Western Devs are releasing "Enhanced Editions" and taking their sweet time releasing anything new.

 

[ricardo_sousa11]

This game does not look better than Rift Apart, Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, AC Shadows, BMW, Spider-Man 2, and more. The visuals are pedestrian and carried by the art style, just like the first game.

Well, you're either blind or have significant visual loss, so debating is useless.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Prior to covid a game sequel like this, unless that team was made of a few people, would not require more than 2-3 years of development. Gaming taking twice to develop while not being evolved in any way is just a management thing. For starters theres less crunch than before, and teams now have more time to finish their tasks than before. Another thing is, and we have discussed this a lot on gaf, that tech has stagnated visually. Path-tracing is still very much demanding for consoles and raytracing just isn't worth it if they can fake it really well, take a look at Decima as a great example. Another aspect is, acceptance. A lot of adult gamers over 30 who are playing singleplayer games like these have lowered their standards considerably. What is a 9/10 game nowadays would've been a 7 at best 10 years ago. If nintendo always got away making the same looking games over and over that are absolute visual turds(such as Pokemon) then so can Sony make the same God of War, same Spider-Man same Death Stranding over and over and they'd still get sales. Not like the AAA space is full of games. The only way this changes is better hardware like PS6, kids starts playing story games instead of Fornite and Roblox and become more critical, the small AA space made of teams similar to Clair keep giving us banger after banger every year at sub 60 euro prices so that it kills this corporate AAA space and reset to making games for fun.

 

[Skifi28]

Clearly, they were just fooling around playing Mario Kart for most of the game's development.

 

[Onironauta]

Ghost of Yotei looks more like an expansion pack, than a new game.
There is still work to be done, writing story, characters and quests.
Graphics seem very similar, just with a longer draw distance.
This is the kind of thing that one would expect to be done in a couple of years.

Was Infamous 2 an expansion pack of the first Infamous? What about Sly 2?

Back then sequels too way less time to make, but I don't think they completely changed the formula either

 

[Gaiff]

Well, you're either blind or have significant visual loss, so debating is useless.

Lol, you can't tell me with a straight face this looks better than fucking Forbidden West. It does not. The game looks beautiful at times thanks to the color palette and art direction, but when they don't shine, it can look rough as hell with questionable texture work like this:

Compare that rock to the foliage and environment around it and it looks like it's a PS3 asset transplanted into the game. Is it a bad-looking game? Absolutely not. It's middle of the road, but acting like it's only topped by Death Stranding 2 is comical. It doesn't hang with the best of the best in the industry.

 

[GudOlRub]

That's actually embarrassing how blind you people are.
We don't know what's going on at the studio. What concepts they were testing and what other games they are working on.
To me, it's way better if studios focus their development on the game and features, rather than wasting their time on chasing latest graphical trends.

But at the same time l;aunch up the first game and then stop fucking complaining that "it looks the same".
So called experts, who see the same style and go with "looks the same". No it's not lol.
Even if it was true.. so what? looking similar to one of best looking games is great.

I played got this year on pro. yotei looks vastly better.

We've reached diminishing returns where it takes 90% of dev time to look good but other 90% to look amazing. it;s not worth it.
This is how GOT1 looks. Look at the yotei trailer again
You can't fucking look at this and say yotei looks the same. this is embarrasing

...

I think it's the artstyle, GOT has such a unique and beautiful artsyle (which people praised the hell out of back when it came out) that now with Yotei, since it has the same kind of artstyle, even though the graphics might be better people still think it looks the same because of it.

 

[Xtib81]

Legit question and I have no idea what the answer is. The same applies to 95% of game studios.

 

[Skifi28]

The entire studio hasn't been working on this game for 5 years. Did everyone forget that Ghost of Tsushima: Legends was released after the game came out? Then a year later, the Director's Cut edition came out, which was updated for PS5 and included a rather meaty expansion with Iki Island.

I swear some of the expectations these days are getting a bit ridiculous.

I would also add that Sucker Punch is on the smaller side compared to many AAA studios, about 160-170 people if I remember correctly.

 

[rofif]

I think it's the artstyle, GOT has such a unique and beautiful artsyle (which people praised the hell out of back when it came out) that now with Yotei, since it has the same kind of artstyle, even though the graphics might be better people still think it looks the same because of it.

exactly.
It's this imagined perfect japan artstyle. not realistic

 

[Lokaum D+]

After watching the Yotei reveal, I was stunned as to what did this studio worked for 5 years? What NEW features required 5 years?

Lets break it down.
Game engine and graphics? No, same engine, graphics barely evolved
AI / Physics / Fire/ Fluids simulation - No
Art style - no, this was done.
Music/OST - this can't take so many years.
Story writing - its no Godfather right? Classic revenge story.
World/missions design - done in the 1st game. This barely adds anything truly meaningful. Repetitive open world grinding.

Does motion capture, voice acting take years upon years? What seriously happened?

Tbf It took Nintendo 6 years for ToTK and thats is almost the same game with the same assets than BotW, It just how gaming works nowadays.

 

[Gaiff]

It's also obvious the limiting factors now are time and budget, not technology. TOTK took 6 years to come out and looks visually identical to BOTW. All the new gamepay systems took a long time to develop, same for GOY. Yeah, the visual leap isn't big, but unless you spend $300M or have a 6-8 year dev cycle, it's really hard to elevate them significantly above those their predecessors.

 

[anyasok]

They shouldnt be surprised if the game fails to meet sales expectations and Sucker Punch closes the studio.

I feel the AAA space is almost finished as a whole

 

[anyasok]

It's also obvious the limiting factors now are time and budget, not technology. TOTK took 6 years to come out and looks visually identical to BOTW. All the new gamepay systems took a long time to develop, same for GOY. Yeah, the visual leap isn't big, but unless you spend $300M or have a 6-8 year dev cycle, it's really hard to elevate them significantly above those their predecessors.

What new gameplay systems does Yotei show? I dont see much.

 

[LordOcidax]

After watching the Yotei reveal, I was stunned as to what did this studio worked for 5 years?

Probably making Yotei… BTW… Have you experience making a videogame?

 

[rofif]

It's also obvious the limiting factors now are time and budget, not technology. TOTK took 6 years to come out and looks visually identical to BOTW. All the new gamepay systems took a long time to develop, same for GOY. Yeah, the visual leap isn't big, but unless you spend $300M or have a 6-8 year dev cycle, it's really hard to elevate them significantly above those their predecessors.

The visual leap is big enough with got to goy.
Remember, og was 1080p30. way lower lods and fidelity.
I posted screenshots of og above, you can refresh your memory.

The whole ps5 generation is doing better graphics, load times and especially lods and all that at usually higher res and fps.
I don't know why people are complaining and what are they not realizing.

If the game was still 1080p30, I bet they could make it look even better. but it will be 60fps

 

[Luipadre]

Its an interesting question, because in the ps3 era, sequels like this came out every 2 year. Dont see anything special here that requires 5-6 years of development instead of 2-3. This goes to almost every game and sequel this generation. Something in the gaming industry is seriously wrong

 

[Moses85]

 

[ricardo_sousa11]

Lol, you can't tell me with a straight face this looks better than fucking Forbidden West. It does not. The game looks beautiful at times thanks to the color palette and art direction, but when they don't shine, it can look rough as hell with questionable texture work like this:

Compare that rock to the foliage and environment around it and it looks like it's a PS3 asset transplanted into the game. Is it a bad-looking game? Absolutely not. It's middle of the road, but acting like it's only topped by Death Stranding 2 is comical. It doesn't hang with the best of the best in the industry.

Yeah, lets pick exacly which moments look bad, ignoring everything else. From a highly compressed video.

Seems legit.

 

[Gaiff]

Yeah, lets pick exacly which moments look bad, ignoring everything else. From a highly compressed video.

Seems legit.

Lol at the compressed video. Look at the surrounding trees, they look fine. It's the boulder that looks awful. Compressed video or not, it looks bad.

The game is visually inconsistent, just like its predecessor. It can look breathtaking at times, not so much at others. Mind you, most games have a degree of graphical inconsistency, but this game just does not look as good as the ones I mentioned unless all you care about is art direction.

 

[Branded]

I love how guys act you are expert in game development, I would love see how long for guys take to release AAA games?

Yeah kind of baffled by some of these reactions on, what is supposed to be, an enthusiast forum.

I guess most of it is just farming reactions though.

 

[Danjin44]

Yeah kind of baffled by some of these reactions on, what is supposed to be, an enthusiast forum.

I guess most of it is just farming reactions though.

There are no different than YouTuber, as soon as the news hits they need to put out some kind of cringy reaction.

 

[vpance]

I blame the lost covid years. Many work from home devs just did fuck all. It made a huge impact this gen, and for some studios more than others.

 

[Trilobit]

Lol, you can't tell me with a straight face this looks better than fucking Forbidden West. It does not. The game looks beautiful at times thanks to the color palette and art direction, but when they don't shine, it can look rough as hell with questionable texture work like this:

Compare that rock to the foliage and environment around it and it looks like it's a PS3 asset transplanted into the game. Is it a bad-looking game? Absolutely not. It's middle of the road, but acting like it's only topped by Death Stranding 2 is comical. It doesn't hang with the best of the best in the industry.

What does posting this screenshot from BotW prove?

 

[Durin]

They worked on this game, and devs have been saying it takes longer dev cycles to keep producing these games.

Pushing visuals (even diminished return ones) still takes more manpower to make...which is why I wish they'd stop.

I remember when Respawn Entertainment bragged about their short 3-4 year dev cycle for Jedi Survivor...and that came out a stuttery broken mess on every platform.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Yeah, lets pick exacly which moments look bad, ignoring everything else. From a highly compressed video.

Seems legit.

Its fine to shit on AC Shadows which looks 100 times better than GoY, but viceversa bad? Cmon. Ubisoft gets a lot of shit, but its still insane to me that GoT and now GoY are basically given free pass(we know why) even though it's pretty much the most non-Ubisoft Ubisoft game from open world design, repetitive mechanics to average story.

 

[AJUMP23]

It takes a lot of time to craft a culturally acceptable girl.

 

[Saber]

Theres not much difference when compared to GoT. I know people will bring up ultra high shots, but most common folks won't notice much of difference. And I know people like to throw something like Elden Ring to the table, but those are major leaps when compared one another. Bloodborne is not equal to DS which is not remotely closer to ER despite all of them recycling some stuff to reduce dev cycles.
This game looks almost like a DLC or expansion to most fellas regardless of some people trying to overselling it. The game could still be a hit for all I know though, but I don't think they can erase this bad perception.

 

[adamsapple]

But the clue system and the timeline !

 

[bitbydeath]

I think people forget how bad Ghosts of Tsushima looked.

Don't get me wrong, the art was pretty, but everything was jagged and blurry, on the PS4.

It doesn't compare to Yotei, where everything is far more detailed and crisp.

 

[No_Cartridge]

People love to complain about game devs like they're a bunch of lazy woke layabouts just twiddling their thumbs. The truth is, most have zero clue how game development actually works. It's like watching someone build a skyscraper and yelling, "Hurry up, it's just stacking bricks and steel!" Every game sequel or not takes years to finish. Meanwhile, there's a squad of devs grinding away behind the scenes: planning, coding, designing, testing, and dealing with all the chaos nobody sees. So before you blame "lazy devs," maybe try making a game yourself and show us all how it's done. Spoiler: it's a lot harder than it looks!

 

[Poppinfresh]

People love to complain about game devs like they're a bunch of lazy woke layabouts just twiddling their thumbs.

No, that's the directors, producers, and project managers.

I don't think anyone is saying that your rank & file code monkey is the reason for long development cycles.

It's primarily mismanagement and bloat, which starts at the top.

 

[Ronin_7]

OT has double Digit IQ and on a dead end Job.

Thread explained.

 

[adamsapple]

I think people forget how bad Ghosts of Tsushima looked.

Don't get me wrong, the art was pretty, but everything was jagged and blurry, on the PS4.

Yeah that IQ looks really bad in that 180p gif.

 

[bitbydeath]

Yeah that IQ looks really bad in that 180p gif.

I'm on my phone, but if you've played the game you get it.

 

[The artful mincer]

Its an interesting question, because in the ps3 era, sequels like this came out every 2 year. Dont see anything special here that requires 5-6 years of development instead of 2-3. This goes to almost every game and sequel this generation. Something in the gaming industry is seriously wrong

They were generally 10 hour linear games. Not these big 40 hour plus open world games. Infamous 1,2 and second son were small open world games and it still took 3 years to develop second son. It was 5 years between second son and GOT.

 

[near]

This. The double-standard is really starting to bug me too.

Plenty of people were shitting on FromSoftware for this in various Duskbloods and Nightreign threads.

 

[Fake]

5 years for a DLC.

 

[bitbydeath]

Yeah that IQ looks really bad in that 180p gif.

Here's a YouTube version, notice how a lot of the details are blurred?



This is a comparable leap as the Horizon games IMO, like moving from VHS to DVD.

 

[No_Cartridge]

No, that's the directors, producers, and project managers.

I don't think anyone is saying that your rank & file code monkey is the reason for long development cycles.

It's primarily mismanagement and bloat, which starts at the top.

If most sequels take around five years to develop, are you really suggesting that every single studio is plagued by mismanagement and bloat on that level? That sounds pretty unlikely. Sure, some projects face those challenges, but lengthy development cycles are often just part of making games in this generation not necessarily a sign of poor management. It's highly doubtful that every management team is incompetent, yet people still love to complain about whatever comes out not being good enough.

 

[LakeOf9]

• They are a small team of under 200 people
• They maintain their own engine
• Game development is incredibly resource intensive. Even teams substantially bigger on third party middleware take 5-6 years to turn out an open world game these days
• Making a wholly non linear game with two completely independent renderings in the past and present is insanely complicated because of the number of out of sequence variables that can break thing, and I would not be surprised if that took a lot of time
• They put out Iki Island in 2021, and continued to support Legends through to 2022
• There was a fucking pandemic in there for a good two years

You fucking morons

 

[adamsapple]

This. The double-standard is really starting to bug me too.

You must have missed the initial topics. Gaffers shat on ER Nightrein just the same.

 

[Raven77]

I think people forget how bad Ghosts of Tsushima looked.

Don't get me wrong, the art was pretty, but everything was jagged and blurry, on the PS4.

It doesn't compare to Yotei, where everything is far more detailed and crisp.

 

[Chuck Berry]

I really need to replay Second Son. It's been years.



Worth it for the soundtrack alone. Marc Canham and Brain (the drummer from fucking Primus)





Also one of my favorite final boss themes of all time -



Alright that's enough derailing from me

 

[bitbydeath]

 

[LakeOf9]

I have literally no issues if it looks the same as a game that already looked gorgeous to begin with

Holy shit have some people lost perspective

 

[GymWolf]

After watching the last trailer it seems like a lot of the budget was spended into sake and geishas.

Maybe japan is gonna give em another public recognition for being thematically correct with the money wasting, too many devs fall for the classic coke and whores.

 

[Raven77]

I have literally no issues if it looks the same as a game that already looked gorgeous to begin with

Holy shit have some people lost perspective

Neither do i. But to try and proclaim that it's leaps and bounds better than the first, in my opinion, is false. It does look amazing though.

 

[LakeOf9]

Neither do i. But to try and proclaim that it's leaps and bounds better than the first, in my opinion, is false. It does look amazing though.

It's definitely not leaps ahead of the first game, in fact in terms of rendering techniques used there are very obvious signs it is working on the PS4 framework

And again, nothing wrong with that. Like on one hand this community bitches about layoffs and developers being closed, and wants games better scoped and doesn't want the relentless focus on new tech when the existing tech hasn't even been properly utilized; and on the other, when a game does those exact things, we end up with ya'all (not you, to be clear) bitching and whining.

Make up your minds (still not you).