What did Sucker Punch work on for 5 years?

TintoConCasera said:
Yes. You can change the resolution and that's it. Don't remember being able to change the lighting settings of the game in a trailer.
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You can also cherry pick a frame to make it look dated and seconds later another frame to make it look next gen. All you guys went full retard on Yotei. I never saw this type of obcession with Elden Ring when both Elden Ring and Yotei shine is in art style. Yotei has gorgeous scenes, even if using some of the same assets from Tsushima, game looks overall gorgeous.
 
Aenima said:
You can also cherry pick a frame to make it look dated and seconds later another frame to make it look next gen. All you guys went full retard on Yotei. I never saw this type of obcession with Elden Ring when both Elden Ring and Yotei shine is in art style. Yotei has gorgeous scenes, even if using some of the same assets from Tsushima, game looks overall gorgeous.
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That's no excuse to claim "the game does not look like that" while quoting a screenshot of it's trailer lol.
 
TintoConCasera said:
That's no excuse to claim "the game does not look like that" while quoting a screenshot of it's trailer lol.
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Because its a bad quality screenshot from a youtube trailer. You know very well thers alot of detail lost. Just look at the character. If you think thats how the character going to actually look in your screen, then dunno what else to tell you.
 
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mckmas8808 said:
This type of thinking is what's wrong with video game dialog today. And it's been getting worse since the PS4 generation due to diminishing returns has started to kick in.
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And what type of thinking is that? The game has great art, but the tech powering it is unimpressive. Some games both have amazing art direction and the technology to elevate them.

It's a AAA game with a budget probably north of $120M, so of course, the expectations will be higher.

Aenima said:
Because its a bad quality screenshot from a youtube trailer. You know very well thers alot of detail lost. Just look at the character.
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It wouldn't matter. The texture work here on the boulder is just awful. Look at the foliage in the corners, it doesn't suffer like that because it's not plain ugly. The character is moving, so detail is lost there, which is why I said nothing about it. The boulder has no such excuse.
 
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Gaiff said:
It wouldn't matter. The texture work here on the boulder is just awful. Look at the foliage in the corners, it doesn't suffer like that because it's not plain ugly. The character is moving, so detail is lost there, which is why I said nothing about her, not on the boulder.
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The boulders were already ugly in Tsushima, so if they using the same engine dont expect big changes. The game, just like Tsushima is much more focused on folliage and vegetation most of the time. Once again is very easy to cherry pick a screenshot from a trailer to make it look dated, and seconds later another screen to make it look next gen.
 
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Yeah graphically it's not amazing. But the changes look interesting. Also full lip sync in Japanese. Yes please.

Let's also remember Covid.
 
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Gaiff said:
And what type of thinking is that? The game has great art, but the tech powering it is unimpressive. Some games both have amazing art direction and the technology to elevate them.

It's a AAA game with a budget probably north of $120M, so of course, the expectations will be higher.
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Well, I guess this is where we agree to disagree. I tend to think the "technology" goes beyond textures in every scene of a game. The "technology" can also be the framerate, image quality, fludity of the character movement, animation, character quality during cutscenes, etc.

It's not just limited to one area of tech one gamer decides is the only one that matters.
 
No_Cartridge said:
If most sequels take around five years to develop, are you really suggesting that every single studio is plagued by mismanagement and bloat on that level? That sounds pretty unlikely. Sure, some projects face those challenges, but lengthy development cycles are often just part of making games in this generation not necessarily a sign of poor management. It's highly doubtful that every management team is incompetent, yet people still love to complain about whatever comes out not being good enough.
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It's exactly bad management. You can check case by case and see it's the common denominator. Bend Studio have just signed a studio director after FIVE YEARS of mismanagement they realized they can't do shit without the previous "bad dude" they were so happy to get rid of.

Having a clear vision is the first step to not spend extra time in trial and error and that's 100% management issues.
 
Donald mac Ronald said:
Op by your logic every sequel should be able to release 12 months after the first, since alot of sequels use the same engine.

Someone else made a good point in the other thread. This complaining only seems to happen for Sony sequel's.

Gears e day should have only taken 6 months.
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According to OP we should have a new Mario every other Monday.
 
SILKYSMOOTH30FPS said:
They were a secret support studio for Concord.
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Goddamn.

fall pulls GIF
 
Aenima said:
The boulders were already ugly in Tsushima, so if they using the same engine dont expect big changes.
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It's missing micro-detail. Perhaps that's the engine's weakness. Here's a reference shot of the type of rock from Tsushima that they have been trying to show throughout GoT and GoY. Without super high res textures, extreme polygon count or bump mapping tricks, the details are just not going to come through.

caption.jpg


I wonder if PSSR could help on the pro, but if the source textures don't capture it, then it's unlikely to come through. All the work seems to have gone towards showing more stuff on screen with better lighting quality in general, rather than micro-detail.

The other weakness seems to be character face closeups outside of cutscenes. The lighting is very hit or miss in those cases. There is a marked difference between cutscene and gameplay. RTGI and shadows could have made a big difference there....

I think the only egregious part of the trailer was the hot springs, which seemed like a straight up asset flip. Literally nothing looked improved there.

Everything else looks good to great, in my opinion. Rest comes down to if the game is actually good. Armchair developer commentary on how many years a game should take to make seems pointlessly cynical and bitter to me. So I'm going to avoid that like the plague.
 
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I hope they haven't removed any of those cool Dualsense functions from the controller. I absolutely loved hooking up the rope to stuff and pulling or riding over rocky surfaces with the horse thanks to it.
 
Onironauta said:
Was Infamous 2 an expansion pack of the first Infamous? What about Sly 2?

Back then sequels too way less time to make, but I don't think they completely changed the formula either
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That's the issue though. If it is "samey" then it shouldn't have taken 5 years to produce. And if it did, a more substantial changes are to be expected.
 
mckmas8808 said:
So how many years should it have taken Mr. Game Producer?
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Less than 5. I am firmly convinced that most of Sony's Western studios have shit production pipelines and bad management oversight.

I have run large scale projects and lack of accountability and bad workflow is what gets you.

As an example, RGG studio can pump out 3x games in the same period with less people and much smaller budget.
 
LakeOf9 said:
It's definitely not leaps ahead of the first game, in fact in terms of rendering techniques used there are very obvious signs it is working on the PS4 framework

And again, nothing wrong with that. Like on one hand this community bitches about layoffs and developers being closed, and wants games better scoped and doesn't want the relentless focus on new tech when the existing tech hasn't even been properly utilized; and on the other, when a game does those exact things, we end up with ya'all (not you, to be clear) bitching and whining.

Make up your minds (still not you).
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Customers are free to criticize the technological laziness and vote with their wallets. If they close their doors as a result, its on them.
 
ElFenomeno said:
After watching the Yotei reveal, I was stunned as to what did this studio worked for 5 years? What NEW features required 5 years?

Lets break it down.
Game engine and graphics? No, same engine, graphics barely evolved
AI / Physics / Fire/ Fluids simulation - No
Art style - no, this was done.
Music/OST - this can't take so many years.
Story writing - its no Godfather right? Classic revenge story.
World/missions design - done in the 1st game. This barely adds anything truly meaningful. Repetitive open world grinding.

Does motion capture, voice acting take years upon years? What seriously happened?
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Billy Madison Shut Up GIF
 
Also, I don't think it really took them 5 years. I remember that they did not start on Infamous Second Son until after the Infamous 2 expansion was released. Iki Island was released in August 2021, so it probably was just 4 years.
 
StereoVsn said:
Less than 5. I am firmly convinced that most of Sony's Western studios have shit production pipelines and bad management oversight.

I have run large scale projects and lack of accountability and bad workflow is what gets you.

As an example, RGG studio can pump out 3x games in the same period with less people and much smaller budget.
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Is Insomniac not a Western developer?
 
StereoVsn said:
That's the issue though. If it is "samey" then it shouldn't have taken 5 years to produce. And if it did, a more substantial changes are to be expected.
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While I agree, Sucker Punch is just slow in general.
Took them 6 years from Second Son to GOT and it's basically just a generic Ubisoft Open World filled with a bunch of repetitive "activities", bland sidequests and low enemy variety.
I'd assume a sequel would take them around 4 years, but you can add an extra one because of the Pandemic.
 
Ar¢tos said:
FromSoftware didn't do a 80$ expansion pack or version 2 of Elden Ring.
They reused assets to make a completely different half priced game, that was never sold as being a sequel, they were very upfront on what Nightreign is.
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You can use that logic to say every sequel is an expansion then.
 
I liked the first one and this does nothing for me.

Oh well. Maybe I'll buy into the hype once it releases and pick it up on a whim impulse buy. Currently no plans to but anything can happen.
 
bitbydeath said:
I think people forget how bad Ghosts of Tsushima looked.

Don't get me wrong, the art was pretty, but everything was jagged and blurry, on the PS4.

4TaT_6.gif


It doesn't compare to Yotei, where everything is far more detailed and crisp.

8tMX8cK.gif
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Draw distance is hugely improved Yotei. A lot of tricks in Tsushima to block out the landscape and not render too much.
 
nial said:
Not even Japanese studios pump out sequels in 3 years, lol. How much did TOTK took to release, again?
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RGG does.

Falcom does.

If you count long DLCs and Definitive Editions with added content, Monolithsoft did as well.

TOTK should have taken about hell of a lot less time than it did, as well.
 
The thread has it backwards because it's framing 5 years as a long time for the game to be in development. Actually, in relative terms, Tsushima was in development for even longer.

It's no wonder Yotei looks so underwhelming considering it's had less time in the oven.

("Games take more time" only works to excuse games taking longer to make than their predecessors - which isn't the case here - because it's logical that a better looking or bigger game is going to take longer to make)
 
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