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[echoshifting]

Do you really believe having dinner at the family table and keeping open communication with your kids is a strictly conservative value? If anything liberalism has helped us breach new topics with our kids parents 50 years ago probably would have avoided, to the detriment of their children.

 

[xandaca]

Primal disgust at anything that challenges your preconceptions. This is all there is to conservative values. Conservative values are more open to long term propaganda because they soak it up and reject challenges to programming based on facts.

The lack of self-awareness here, particularly in view of other responses in this thread, is delicious.

 

[Neifirst]

I associate conservatism with "negative" rights - the freedom from government infringement of speech, assembly, worship, etc., while I associate progressive with "positive" rights - the right to an education, health care, and so on. Neither type of right is exclusive to one philosophy or the other, of course, but I find that's how the emphasis breaks down generally.

 

[TemplaerDude]

Most of the responses in here seem less like conservatism and more like the bullshit the US Republican party has been peddling as "conservatism" for a while now.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

The lack of self-awarenss here, particularly in view of other responses in this thread, is delicious.

I'm not disgusted by conservatives. Actually they just make me sad for the human condition. But also a lot of what passes for liberal or left wing is also very conservative since people compromise on certain issues and are desperate for some illusory "middle ground."

 

[besada]

Resistance to change, resistance to social progress and equality, clinging to racism and outdated ways of thinking, fearful. Those are the conservative values I've seen over the last forty years.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Idiots.

Most of the responses in here seem less like conservatism and more like the bullshit the US Republican party has been peddling as "conservatism" for a while now.

It's not like the USA is the only country with backwards conservatives.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

Most of the responses in here seem less like conservatism and more like the bullshit the US Republican party has been peddling as "conservatism" for a while now.

If conservatives peddle it is it not conservatism.

 

[aeolist]

It's sad to see Conservatism politicized so much these days and all the Drumpf haters paint all Conservatives as "racists, bigots, uneducated, violent, hateful."

To me, conservative values stand for:

- Traditional families, with two-parent households. Now, this is simply one of many ways families can look. I'm not saying any one way is right or wrong. But conservatism advocates for having children, and having two parents share household responsibilities, and having dinner at the family table (and not in front of the TV/computer), and talking to our kids.
- Manners and decorum. A time when etiquette mattered more in society, and children learned how to properly set up the dinner table and greet adults. Swearing was considered indecorous, and popular songs had clean lyrics. People debated with each other with civility, not with insults or profanities.
- Fashion: conservatism often means longer skirts, less cleavage, and a philosophy of "less is more." It encourages showing restraint when it comes to: talking about yourself, displaying yourself, and drawing attention to yourself. It preaches kindness over narcissism.
- Face-to-face interactions: it harkins to a time when we knew our neighbors and made in person visits to our friends, not more impersonal methods of connecting such as over email, text, Facebook, or snapchat.
- Hard work: not that people today do not work hard, but Conservatism focuses on having a good work ethic, and making something of yourself. Contributing something worthwhile to society. Not the consumerist mindset so prevalent today that's mostly about "what am I getting" and "how much more can I buy."

Now, none of these are right or wrong. They are simply a set of values one can choose to live or not to live by. And conservatism means different things to different people. Thus this thread. I have given a few examples of what I consider to represent conservative values. How about you? Is it indistinguishable from the politics of the modern Republican party? Or do you have other personal views of conservatism? And how do you feel about them?

american conservatism is defined by trying to force these ideals (and a lot more besides) on everyone else whether they want them or not

 

[Valhelm]

I picture this bullshit.

IMO that lifestyle isn't bullshit. The problem is oppressing anybody and everybody who doesn't conform to it.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Potentially dangerous

 

[Mathieran]

Most of the responses in here seem less like conservatism and more like the bullshit the US Republican party has been peddling as "conservatism" for a while now.

The OP asked what we view conservatism as. It's not our fault how we view it. Take a look at how most self described conservatives vote and act and ask yourself why people view conservatism like we do.

 

[Condom]

Fear of the future

 

[Pancakes]

-snip-

Nothing much else to add to this post. Conservatism to me is an effort to undue years of progress for women's and minorities rights. They want to bring back some semblance of the "good ol' days" where minorities were kept down to the benefit of the white nuclear family. History will see conservatism on the wrong side of history on many issues as it's a massive fear of change and much needed progress.

 

[Bit-Bit]

I always think "what exactly are you conserving and for who?"

It is a way of thinking that really doesn't appeal to me.

 

[Dai101]

"Janey, how was your day at school?"

"A colored boy looked at me!"

"Martha, you washed the sheets didn't you?"

"Yes, dear."

"Good, good...who wants another weiner!"

"Ok, now how about some nice afterdinner entertainment?"

** NSFL

http://imgur.com/XvmfDSE

http://imgur.com/6DoWeWC

 

[hydragonwarrior]

Save for maybe the last one all of those bullet points on your list have nothing to do with government in anyway as you're defining them.
Nothing republicans do is going to bring back face to face interactions, fashion choices, manners and decorum.


You need to list the conservative values that makes you vote republican.

I think moderate Conservatives keep hoping that one day the party will return to those stances listed in the OP. So for now, they still identify with the party even though it no longer represents them at all.

 

[Already Torn]

Basically varying degrees of being selfish and close minded. Like the stuff you said, I see

- Thinking the way you grew up was the best way to grow up because that's the way you grew up
- Judging people for not abiding by the arbitrary rules you set for yourself
- Judging people for not dressing themselves in the way you prefer to dress

etc etc. A sad and exclusive way of viewing the world, although an understandable one. Pretty sure the current "conservative values" will be gone in a Few decades when all of the people who hold them start dying off or going into nursing homes.

When you get into the "and remember when people used to talk to each other?" stuff I just get weird anxiety because all I hear is a miserable person desperately trying to remember a time when they thought they were happier. Like weird sympathy depression and I don't like it.

The weird thing is that I'd actually love to have a traditional family and I like to wear suits, but I'm not delusional enough to think that those are the ways everyone should live their life (or something j should limit myself too) just because I think it's cool. I'm not that special, and neither is anyone else.

 

[vicissitudes]

The world is not perfect and there's a million things that can be improved.

Using the label conservative means that you're happy with the way things are supposedly because the status quo benefits yourself.

When it comes to politics it never seems to be about preserving the good of society. Rather it strives to protect the rights of those well off economically and socially.

Conservatism means wanting things to stay the same. Generally, conservatives support the perpetuation of existing hierarchies.

I would consider these more cynical views of conservatism. You can advocate for the status quo in certain aspects to the benefit of society, or to the benefit of others. Change isn't always good, and the status quo isn't always bad.

Save for maybe the last one all of those bullet points on your list have nothing to do with government in anyway as you're defining them.
Nothing republicans do is going to bring back face to face interactions, fashion choices, manners and decorum.

You need to list the conservative values that makes you vote republican.

OP, I'd like to add that my family is about as liberal as they come and we pretty much fit your definition of conservative values exactly as you defined. I don't really feel like any of those values define conservatism at all. I know lots of liberal families that follow all of those guidelines.

We work hard, have dinner together, have two kids, are modest, know most of our neighbors, etc.

That's one of my main points: is it possible to separate conservative values from politics? I do not vote Republican, but I do hold certain values I consider to be conservative. I don't think the world is so black and white that you have to be either "progressive" or "conservative", and I don't think the Republican party is a perfect representation of conservative values.

Most of the responses in here seem less like conservatism and more like the bullshit the US Republican party has been peddling as "conservatism" for a while now.

Perfectly succinct way of describing how I feel.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

The way we live now will be the conservative values of 2066, I think

 

[UltraGunner]

Burning crosses and shit

 

[echoshifting]

american conservatism is defined by trying to force these ideals (and a lot more besides) on everyone else whether they want them or not

I don't even think a lot of that needs to be forced, tbh. It's insulting that some of that is described by the op as conservatism. Talking to your kids? Hanging out with friends? Hard work? Fuck that, nobody can claim stuff like that to be conservatism. Those are societal values most people share. Anti-social media? That's a conservative thing? News to me, seems like people on both sides of the ideological spectrum have a wide range of views on social media.

Pretty much everything in the op is either "remember the good ol' days" or it's shit that conservatives and liberals partake of alike. There's no substance to op's stance at all beyond a somewhat regressive view of society.

 

[Seth Enosh]

There is a conservative intellectual tradition that seems completely ignored by most of the responses in this thread. (Edmund Burke et al.) On the other hand, there's the "stand athwart history yelling stop" type of conservativism which is what is being caricatured in many of these responses.

In the USA specifically, conservativism is currently linked with economic liberalism (free trade, low/no minimum wage, weak legal protection for unions, etc). Some movements identified as "conservative" in other countries don't have this ideological connection. I don't think it's possible to give one definition for "conservativism" if you don't identify a specific region of the world and maybe even a time period.

Trump is currently proving that many GOP voters don't really care about what "conservative" intellectuals value, since he's running on a platform against free trade and committing other heresies against "conservative" ideology of recent years.

 

[Cyan]

Leaving aside the weirdness of "it's sad to see Conservatism politicized," your list in the OP sort of answers the implicit question in the first sentence.

Why are (US) conservatives painted as bigots, sexists, etc? Well, your list includes "traditional families" which manifests as opposition to gay rights, from trying to disallow gay marriage to trying to disallow gay couples adopting all the way down to supporting garbage like gay conversion therapy. Your list also includes "longer skirts, less cleavage" which is a single manifestation of a general opposition to women's sexuality. This manifests in, as you say, dislike for certain fashion choices, but also in a bunch of other stuff from simple slut-shaming to rape apologism ("she was asking for it" type stuff) to being a significant component of the anti-abortion movement.

I don't think "violent and hateful" are necessarily inherent components of conservatism. But when it comes to Trump, the elements of conservatism he's chasing are those that are the most violent and hateful. He's tapping into a lot of the same emotions, the same rhetoric, the same specific, highly directed fears that traditionally violent and hateful groups such as the KKK used to tap into, and making it just respectable enough that the worst elements feel free to come out of the shadows and make themselves heard. Not all Trump supporters are awful people, but because of the above they're going to be disproportionately awful compared to supporters for any other candidate, or to the general population.

 

[greycolumbus]

I wish conservatives were preoccupied with conserving the environment, proven science, and policies that work. It should honestly work as the "tried and true" pillar of civilization instead of the weird insanity closet it is now.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

IMO that lifestyle isn't bullshit. The problem is oppressing anybody and everybody who doesn't conform to it.

It's not bullshit because it's bad. It's bullshit because it doesn't exist and never did.

 

[Already Torn]

I wish conservatives were preoccupied with conserving the environment, proven science, and policies that work. It should honestly work as the "tried and true" pillar of civilization instead of the weird insanity closest it is now.

You know, back in my day nobody gave too stones about the environment. The only thing that mattered at the factory was how hard you worked and how you carried yourself, not how many chemical whatsists went into the river network.

And men acted like men. I remember one time me and the boys...

 

[quickwhips]

IMO that lifestyle isn't bullshit. The problem is oppressing anybody and everybody who doesn't conform to it.

I sorta of have that life now and I'm not conservative. I also don't treat people in general like shit unless they treat me that way first.

 

[Jotaka]

Now, none of these are right or wrong. They are simply a set of values one can choose to live or not to live by. And conservatism means different things to different people. Thus this thread. I have given a few examples of what I consider to represent conservative values. How about you? Is it indistinguishable from the politics of the modern Republican party? Or do you have other personal views of conservatism? And how do you feel about them?

There wouldn't any problem if they just follow it BUT the moment they try forge many of their values to the rest of people by FORCE... fuck them!

 

[Sgt.Pepper]

Conservatism is a political ideology of delaying, discouraging, or in some cases even reversing(Reactionaries) societal advancement in the image that they themselves value to a point of idealization. Almost always associated with intolerance precisely because those who harken to these values marry a) their take on 'proper' Christianity and b) their own morality to it. Universally the 'losers' of history, as their stances never mesh with societal trends. Almost always ignore what others would suffer under with their 'ideals' at best, or at worst are actively hoping the worst on others with whom they disagree. See: The romanticization of the 1950s by white Americans ignoring the reality faced by minority groups.

And finally, a shifting metric because what a conservative in the 1850s believed versus a conservative in the 1950s believed is night and day. Human history is a giant example of tradition being thrown away because it is quite literally idealization of the past.

Pretty sure we have a different understanding of 'Conservative values' OP. To me it's a code word for 'the good ol days'.

Good ol' days is exactly what I was gonna post.

 

[umop_3pisdn]

"I am afraid of women and minorities getting my job."

 

[Phobophile]

I picture this bullshit.

They must be Trump supporters. I see ketchup for them hot dogs.

 

[Mathieran]

That's one of my main points: is it possible to separate conservative values from politics? I do not vote Republican, but I do hold certain values I consider to be conservative. I don't think the world is so black and white that you have to be either "progressive" or "conservative", and I don't think the Republican party is a perfect representation of conservative values.

I think those values are already separated from conservatism. I would call those family or maybe old fashioned values or something along those lines. I think they are values that are already shared across political lines.

 

[Einchy]

IMO that lifestyle isn't bullshit. The problem is oppressing anybody and everybody who doesn't conform to it.

That's why I think it's bullshit, they might be happy and think the world is perfect, but it's shit for anyone that's not a straight white middle class family.

 

[vicissitudes]

Leaving aside the weirdness of "it's sad to see Conservatism politicized," your list in the OP sort of answers the implicit question in the first sentence.

Why are (US) conservatives painted as bigots, sexists, etc? Well, your list includes "traditional families" which manifests as opposition to gay rights, from trying to disallow gay marriage to trying to disallow gay couples adopting all the way down to supporting garbage like gay conversion therapy. Your list also includes "longer skirts, less cleavage" which is a single manifestation of a general opposition to women's sexuality. This manifests in, as you say, dislike for certain fashion choices, but also in a bunch of other stuff from simple slut-shaming to rape apologism ("she was asking for it" type stuff) to being a significant component of the anti-abortion movement.

I don't think "violent and hateful" are necessarily inherent components of conservatism. But when it comes to Trump, the elements of conservatism he's chasing are those that are the most violent and hateful. He's tapping into a lot of the same emotions, the same rhetoric, the same specific, highly directed fears that traditionally violent and hateful groups such as the KKK used to tap into, and making it just respectable enough that the worst elements feel free to come out of the shadows and make themselves heard. Not all Trump supporters are awful people, but because of the above they're going to be disproportionately awful compared to supporters for any other candidate, or to the general population.

Note I mentioned two-parent families but not the sex of the parents. I have no problem with same-sex parents. Conservatism shouldn't be about preserving everything, but preserving the aspects that are good for society. Many conservatives want to preserve the "man-woman" aspect of marriage/family, and I don't think that's the part we want to preserve. Same with racial discrimination. I think many conservatives want to preserve the wrong things, and that's unfortunately led to a very negative connotation of the entire concept of conservatism.

I wish conservatives were preoccupied with conserving the environment, proven science, and policies that work. It should honestly work as the "tried and true" pillar of civilization instead of the weird insanity closet it is now.

Well said. I completely agree.

 

[Already Torn]

Note I mentioned two-parent families but not the sex of the parents. I have no problem with same-sex parents. Conservatism shouldn't be about preserving everything, but preserving the aspects that are good for society. Many conservatives want to preserve the "man-woman" aspect of marriage/family, and I don't think that's the part we want to preserve. Same with racial discrimination. I think many conservatives want to preserve the wrong things, and that's unfortunately led to a very negative connotation of the entire concept of conservatism.



Well said. I completely agree.

That's still super shitty though. Like according to your "values" a single mother raising a family isn't doing things the "right" way, and is lesser because of it because she doesn't meet your criteria for a proper family. That's effed up.

Or like, Full House too. Those kids turned out great.

 

[Sianos]

Those do sound like some nice values you've got there! They sound so nice, in fact, that I'm going to help you figure out how to pursue policies that would lead to those goals!!

- Stable Multiple Parent Households: Yes, it would be great if all children had multiple, active parents raising them in a stable environment. First step would be to stop throwing parents in jail for ridiculous amounts of time over drug possession charges in accordance with minimum sentencing laws. Secondly, we could allow gay couples to get married and adopt children, so that they could raise children in a stable environment. And of course, a rise in the minimum wage so that both parents are not forced to work multiple jobs to raise their children.

- A Linguistically Advanced Vernacular and an Intellectually Stimulating Culture: Further spending on education and the fine arts would raise the average level of linguistic ability and would therefore contribute to this more refined culture.

- Fashion that Rejects Capitalistic Values: Ah, it's great to see a collectivist approach to fashion! One way to encourage this would be a rejection of the capitalist mentality and the pressures that through social osmosis force people to feel as though they are in constant implicit competition. And, of course, valuing the inherent multiculturalism of the world as opposed to a single manufactured archetype designed to make selling products to people easier by trying to force them to all be the same.

- Kindness over Selfishness: Yes, our society should do more to help the poor and disenfranchised. Welfare programs and universal healthcare are valuable and matter more than adding another zero onto an offshore bank account of a narcissist. Additionally, we must be sensitive and caring to others and their cultural differences, as opposed to being so caught up in ourselves that we lack perspective.

- Restructuring of the Urban Environment: To enable people to once again be able to meet up in person, let's redesign urban cities to prioritize efficiency for humans over efficiency for industry. More accessible housing and apartments in areas with opportunity for jobs and money spent on better public transportation should help with this. While we're at it, let's protect the environment in general so that people want to spend time outside together.

- Helping People Self-Actualize: Working hard towards your passion is wonderful and the true expression of human purpose - as such, we should work towards helping everyone reach a mental and physical state in which they can self-actualize. Value hard, creative work over maximizing numerical productivity to be more innovative. An end to 18th and 19th century industrial paradigms bolstered by the rise of technology.

Now wait just one gosh darned second: those sure do sound like liberal policies to me! Wow, its almost as if those values you listed aren't at all represented by modern conservative policy...

Of course, I'm going by what you've written by the most generous interpretation - it's often implied that "traditional families" refers to a persecution of homosexuals as less than human, that "conservative decorum" is minorities knowing their place in society, that "restraint in fashion" is a restriction of the expression of female sexuality and implicit rape victim blaming... but I'm sure you weren't implying that! You were instead talking about the wonderful liberal values that you denotatively described.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Note I mentioned two-parent families but not the sex of the parents. I have no problem with same-sex parents. Conservatism shouldn't be about preserving everything, but preserving the aspects that are good for society. Many conservatives want to preserve the "man-woman" aspect of marriage/family, and I don't think that's the part we want to preserve. Same with racial discrimination. I think many conservatives want to preserve the wrong things, and that's unfortunately led to a very negative connotation of the entire concept of conservatism.

A traditional family isn't good for society it's a relationship with unequal partners. If you just mean parents and kids then that's still the ideal so nothing conservative about it.

 

[GG-Duo]

I wonder how someone like Andrew Sullivan would define small-c conservatism?

 

[ThusZarathustra]

To get at what the thread seems to be about, which is the possible difference between conservatism in a political sense, and conservatism in a personal sense, I think it's important to shift the focus a little. Away from politics and society and toward survival and personal responsibility and personal values. Obviously disentangling these things is not at all simple, but I'll give it a shot.

I would think conservatism in the sense the OP seems to be getting at would be (in my interpretation) based around low-level survival values, so to speak. Like the Amish or something.

Valuing and have a personal emotional attachment and sense of responsibility for the machinery of life that surrounds you, from the low level of people feeling a sense of connection and opportunities for growth, the ability to cook and host a meal, the ability to repair and look after the simple machinery of life that surrounds you, your home, your car, etc. The responsibility for the machinery of life that surrounds you, from cooking, to basic home repairs and more, are, yes, often eschewed for the sake of simple time in the day, but I also find that class and a sense of high-mindedness just as often allows people to feel as though they have no sense of responsibility for their surroundings.

Perhaps that's closer to what the OP had in mind?

To me though those are more issues of class and education than they are of politics.

 

[subrock]

Fear of change/loss of influence and prideful ignorance. That about sums up the discourse I've seen and read.

 

[Eusis]

Honestly, I agree with the OP about what conservative values are.

Which is why I kind of hate them for the most part. Especially when they're twisted and warped into hating or demeaning other people (no gay marriage! Genders are set in stone and not something you can change!), but even the nicer ways of just not liking things to out of the usual gets to me. I'd value freedom of expression, and even if I might think you look weird or goofy it doesn't really matter if you're not hurting someone, right?

EDIT: And I guess half the problem IS politicizing it. When someone just wants to live by conservative values that's equally fine too, the problem is when you have the likes of Ted Cruz trumpeting them with the implication of squashing out anyone who doesn't fit THAT world view.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

I picture this bullshit.

Ain't a black or Mexican for miles!

 

[adj_noun]

Fear of tomorrow while longing for yesterday's return today.

 

[Shaanyboi]

"Traditional" family unit and values as defined by mid 20th-century America. A resistance to social change including the women's lib movement, and the fight for equality for people of colour and the LGBT community. Also a strict demonizing of anything resembling sexual or individual expression.

 

[Dai101]

Ain't a black or Mexican for miles!

Must be that white heaven Uncle Ruckus was always talking about.

 

[Chococat]

Glorifying one narrow definition of life style and then actively forcing others to take part in that life style through laws and social stigmatize.

 

[Not]

Familiarity, security, pride, and warmth. Powerful human instincts.

If only we could squeeze empathy in there.

 

[Days like these...]

To me it means being pro war, anti any sort of gun regulation, anti choice, anti immigrant and a good dose of 'f*ck you've I've got mine!'.

 

[N.Domixis]

The way we live now will be the conservative values of 2066, I think

Will be the old men trying to ban robot/human marriages.