What do "conservative values" mean to you?

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Krejlooc said:
IMO:

hates gays
pro military
pro guns
pro religion
anti-abortion
hates social programs
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Conservatives have a tradition of wanting religious freedom for themselves and little for others, hence the periods of American history that were variously anti-Catholic, anti-semitic, and now, anti-Muslim.
 
EMT0 said:
Conservatism is a political ideology of delaying, discouraging, or in some cases even reversing(Reactionaries) societal advancement in the image that they themselves value to a point of idealization. Almost always associated with intolerance precisely because those who harken to these values marry a) their take on 'proper' Christianity and b) their own morality to it. Universally the 'losers' of history, as their stances never mesh with societal trends. Almost always ignore what others would suffer under with their 'ideals' at best, or at worst are actively hoping the worst on others with whom they disagree. See: The romanticization of the 1950s by white Americans ignoring the reality faced by minority groups.

And finally, a shifting metric because what a conservative in the 1850s believed versus a conservative in the 1950s believed is night and day. Human history is a giant example of tradition being thrown away because it is quite literally idealization of the past.

Pretty sure we have a different understanding of 'Conservative values' OP. To me it's a code word for 'the good ol days'.
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Dead on.
 
EMT0 said:
Conservatism is a political ideology of delaying, discouraging, or in some cases even reversing(Reactionaries) societal advancement in the image that they themselves value to a point of idealization. Almost always associated with intolerance precisely because those who harken to these values marry a) their take on 'proper' Christianity and b) their own morality to it. Universally the 'losers' of history, as their stances never mesh with societal trends. Almost always ignore what others would suffer under with their 'ideals' at best, or at worst are actively hoping the worst on others with whom they disagree. See: The romanticization of the 1950s by white Americans ignoring the reality faced by minority groups.

And finally, a shifting metric because what a conservative in the 1850s believed versus a conservative in the 1950s believed is night and day. Human history is a giant example of tradition being thrown away because it is quite literally idealization of the past.

Pretty sure we have a different understanding of 'Conservative values' OP. To me it's a code word for 'the good ol days'.
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Well, I wanted to say a bunch of stuff but someone had to make the perfect response.
 
vicissitudes said:
It's sad to see Conservatism politicized so much these days and all the Trump haters paint all Conservatives as "racists, bigots, uneducated, violent, hateful."
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Hm. So you think it's sad people paint conservatives as racist/bigoted/etc? Okay then, let us examine what YOU listed as conservative values and see how well the stereotype holds up.
To me, conservative values stand for:
- Traditional families, with two-parent households. Now, this is simply one of many ways families can look. I'm not saying any one way is right or wrong. But conservatism advocates for having children, and having two parents share household responsibilities, and having dinner at the family table (and not in front of the TV/computer), and talking to our kids.
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Ah traditional families, starting strong. Instantly we see values which deny same-sex couples the same rights as heterosexual couples. That's one check into the bigoted and hateful columns.
Bigot ✓
Hateful ✓
- Manners and decorum. A time when etiquette mattered more in society, and children learned how to properly set up the dinner table and greet adults. Swearing was considered indecorous, and popular songs had clean lyrics. People debated with each other with civility, not with insults or profanities.
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Manners and... decorum(?) are culture specific. To enforce your culture onto others is tyrannical and many conservatives use 'manners' as a vector to attack others on their race. Also bringing up music into is further used by conservatives to attack and belittle people over race. Let's add one more to bigoted and hateful shall we, as well as the first one for racist, and finally uneducated for the hell of it:
Bigot ✓✓
Hateful ✓✓
Racist ✓
Uneducated ✓
-- Fashion: conservatism often means longer skirts, less cleavage, and a philosophy of "less is more." It encourages showing restraint when it comes to: talking about yourself, displaying yourself, and drawing attention to yourself. It preaches kindness over narcissism.
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Conservative fashion, aka "got to keep clothes on our wimmin-folk". Easy checkmark for the sexist category. But conservatives take it a step further and use their 'fashion' sense as a means to belittle and attack other races once again.
Bigot ✓✓✓
Hateful ✓✓✓
Racist ✓✓
Uneducated ✓✓

On a roll so far.
- Face-to-face interactions: it harkins to a time when we knew our neighbors and made in person visits to our friends, not more impersonal methods of connecting such as over email, text, Facebook, or snapchat.
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Not even sure what this one means, so uh, good job conservatives I guess? You have a value that didn't gain any negative checks. I could just put a check in uneducated though because so many seem so ignorant when it comes to using technology, but that'd be a little unfair.

- Hard work: not that people today do not work hard, but Conservatism focuses on having a good work ethic, and making something of yourself. Contributing something worthwhile to society. Not the consumerist mindset so prevalent today that's mostly about "what am I getting" and "how much more can I buy."
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Is this them bootstraps they keep mentioning? The way conservatives shift the blame to the underrepresented by saying it's their fault for not working hard enough. An ignorant ideal rot with bigotry, racism, and occasionally sexism?
Bigot ✓✓✓✓
Hateful ✓✓✓✓
Racist ✓✓✓
Uneducated ✓✓✓

Now, none of these are right or wrong. They are simply a set of values one can choose to live or not to live by. And conservatism means different things to different people. Thus this thread. I have given a few examples of what I consider to represent conservative values. How about you? Is it indistinguishable from the politics of the modern Republican party? Or do you have other personal views of conservatism? And how do you feel about them?
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Whelp, here we are at the end. Let's examine where we're at.

Of those 5 ideals 4 of them contain bigoted premises, 4 hateful, 3 racist, and 3 uneducated.

Yeah, conservatives sure aren't founded on any of those negative things.
 
I would also add British Conservatism has a little colonialism/imperialism left in it. Usually comes out during arguments about the Falklands or how British people should be able to travel freely but foreigners shouldn't be allowed in the UK.
 
NoblesseOblige said:
FIRE
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giphy.gif
 
I take "means to me" as what conservatism seems to be in US politics

-capitalistic zealotry (complete deregulation, no social responsibility, disregard for the environment, government can only impede the economy)

-religious zealotry (dominionism, circumvention of/disregard for the 1st Amendment, anti-science)

-warmongering (military spending as an economic base, war as the solution to geopolitical conflict)

-American exceptionalism (idolization of American history to the point where the country has not and cannot do any wrong)

-fear of social/cultural change
 
For all the self-congratulation in this thread, I wonder how many people feel that cooking skills, trade skills, and other lower level skills are beneath them. It's really easy to believe in freedom, equality and openness and also be an ivory tower classicist who believes themselves above the trifling physical work of the blue-collar plebeian masses.

It sometimes reads to me as another version of "fuck you I got mine" just not as bad.
 
ThusZarathustra said:
For all the self-congratulation in this thread, I wonder how many people feel that cooking skills, trade skills, and other lower level skills are beneath them. It's really easy to believe in freedom, equality and openness and also be an ivory tower classicist who believes themselves above the trifling physical work of the blue-collar plebeian masses.

It sometimes reads to me as another version of "fuck you I got mine" just not as bad.
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what self-congratulation?
 
NoblesseOblige said:
Hm. So you think it's sad people paint conservatives as racist/bigoted/etc? Okay then, let us examine what YOU listed as conservative values and see how well the stereotype holds up.

Ah traditional families, starting strong. Instantly we see values which deny same-sex couples the same rights as heterosexual couples. That's one check into the bigoted and hateful columns.
Bigot ✓
Hateful ✓

Manners and... decorum(?) are culture specific. To enforce your culture onto others is tyrannical and many conservatives use 'manners' as a vector to attack others on their race. Also bringing up music into is further used by conservatives to attack and belittle people over race. Let's add one more to bigoted and hateful shall we, as well as the first one for racist, and finally uneducated for the hell of it:
Bigot ✓✓
Hateful ✓✓
Racist ✓
Uneducated ✓

Conservative fashion, aka "got to keep clothes on our wimmin-folk". Easy checkmark for the sexist category. But conservatives take it a step further and use their 'fashion' sense as a means to belittle and attack other races once again.
Bigot ✓✓✓
Hateful ✓✓✓
Racist ✓✓
Uneducated ✓✓

On a roll so far.

Not even sure what this one means, so uh, good job conservatives I guess? You have a value that didn't gain any negative checks. I could just put a check in uneducated though because so many seem so ignorant when it comes to using technology, but that'd be a little unfair.


Is this them bootstraps they keep mentioning? The way conservatives shift the blame to the underrepresented by saying it's their fault for not working hard enough. An ignorant ideal rot with bigotry, racism, and occasionally sexism?
Bigot ✓✓✓✓
Hateful ✓✓✓✓
Racist ✓✓✓
Uneducated ✓✓✓


Whelp, here we are at the end. Let's examine where we're at.

Of those 5 ideals 4 of them contain bigoted premises, 4 hateful, 3 racist, and 3 uneducated.

Yeah, conservatives sure aren't founded on any of those negative things.
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Don't forget anti poor, which the whole manners, decorum, fashion, and conservative work ethics are.
 
ChetWilson said:
People are uneducated, hateful, bigoted, and racist, if they believe and defend western culture's core values?
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are those the core values of western culture? or is it things like tolerance, personal freedom, equality for all, and government representative of the governed?
 
Herbs said:
what self-congratulation?
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Oh, the FIRE and the boom.gif and the like. It just doesn't move me much. I know the traditional liberal mindset to be on the right side of history and don't take much pride in pointing out how wrong other people are, especially in the political sense, where the gamesmanship is so obvious. I find exploring theory to be much more interesting than rejoicing in how obvious things are obvious.
 
ThusZarathustra said:
Oh, the FIRE and the boom.gif and the like. It just doesn't move me much. I know the traditional liberal mindset to be on the right side of history and don't take much pride in pointing out how wrong other people are, especially in the political sense, where the gamesmanship is so obvious. I find exploring theory to be much more interesting than rejoicing in how obvious things are obvious.
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What would you suggest to be the cause of people scared of change, other that what's already been addressed?
 
ChetWilson said:
People are uneducated, hateful, bigoted, and racist, if they believe and defend western culture's core values?
Click to expand...

No no no you misunderstand. People are uneducated, hateful, bigoted, and racist if they defend those core values. Not western values
TM
whatever that means. The issue are those values which are often cloaked in modern day american conservatism.

ThusZarathustra said:
For all the self-congratulation in this thread, I wonder how many people feel that cooking skills, trade skills, and other lower level skills are beneath them. It's really easy to believe in freedom, equality and openness and also be an ivory tower classicist who believes themselves above the trifling physical work of the blue-collar plebeian masses.

It sometimes reads to me as another version of "fuck you I got mine" just not as bad.
Click to expand...

The irony being that somehow you have managed to elevate yourself again over those you are denigrating while accusing them of the same. I step in more shit in a day on the job than you have probably ever in your life and I still manage to believe that people should be treated equally and fairly. Oh no! My ivory towers are crumbling!
 
shem935 said:
No no no you misunderstand. People are uneducated, hateful, bigoted, and racist if they defend those core values. Not western values
TM
whatever that means. The issue are those values which are often cloaked in modern day american conservatism.
Click to expand...

indeed.
 
vicissitudes said:
It's sad to see Conservatism politicized so much these days and all the Trump haters paint all Conservatives as "racists, bigots, uneducated, violent, hateful."

To me, conservative values stand for:

- Traditional families, with two-parent households. Now, this is simply one of many ways families can look. I'm not saying any one way is right or wrong. But conservatism advocates for having children, and having two parents share household responsibilities, and having dinner at the family table (and not in front of the TV/computer), and talking to our kids.
- Manners and decorum. A time when etiquette mattered more in society, and children learned how to properly set up the dinner table and greet adults. Swearing was considered indecorous, and popular songs had clean lyrics. People debated with each other with civility, not with insults or profanities.
- Fashion: conservatism often means longer skirts, less cleavage, and a philosophy of "less is more." It encourages showing restraint when it comes to: talking about yourself, displaying yourself, and drawing attention to yourself. It preaches kindness over narcissism.
- Face-to-face interactions: it harkins to a time when we knew our neighbors and made in person visits to our friends, not more impersonal methods of connecting such as over email, text, Facebook, or snapchat.
- Hard work: not that people today do not work hard, but Conservatism focuses on having a good work ethic, and making something of yourself. Contributing something worthwhile to society. Not the consumerist mindset so prevalent today that's mostly about "what am I getting" and "how much more can I buy."

Now, none of these are right or wrong. They are simply a set of values one can choose to live or not to live by. And conservatism means different things to different people. Thus this thread. I have given a few examples of what I consider to represent conservative values. How about you? Is it indistinguishable from the politics of the modern Republican party? Or do you have other personal views of conservatism? And how do you feel about them?
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Yeah, manners and decorum! And less-is-more humility! Now let's all vote for Trump!

I mean Jesus, you might as well throw stickball and apple pie on your list.
 
Massive Duck said:
What would you suggest to be the cause of people scared of change, other that what's already been addressed?
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Well, it's mostly been addressed in the traditional sense, so a reframing of the issue is in order. For two reasons, one, the political view is intensely obvious and the underlying psychological thing of expecting the world to shape itself in your image has been addressed too, two, the thread was supposed to be about, I think, something much more personal and close to home, ie how we think about surviving in the world and what we feel are our own responsibilities in it.

I think the kind of "conservatism" the OP attempted to get at was something important about very basic responsibilities that often get excused or tossed to the wayside as people move up in class and further into privilege and isolation from lower-level problems.

Like I said earlier in the thread it's much more about class and education and life experience than politics to me.

shem935 said:
No no no you misunderstand. People are uneducated, hateful, bigoted, and racist if they defend those core values. Not western values
TM
whatever that means. The issue are those values which are often cloaked in modern day american conservatism.



The irony being that somehow you have managed to elevate yourself again over those you are denigrating while accusing them of the same. I step in more shit in a day on the job than you have probably ever in your life and I still manage to believe that people should be treated equally and fairly. Oh no! My ivory towers are crumbling!
Click to expand...

I'm an electrician, man. My dad was a general contractor. I've squeezed into the most disgusting of crawlspaces in my time. I'm not trying to stand above anyone or tear anyone down. And I believe in equality and fairness too, believe it or not. And I also wonder about how people see trades like mine and people like me and mine, simple as that.
 
Dennis said:
What is wrong with this?

Two parents and some kids?

Surely we are not vilifying that?
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It paints a very naive, idealized version of the 1950s-60s.

Like "Look at this middle-class suburban family! Grilling weiners and shit! Those are the family values I remember!" and then you find out they're fucking George Wallace supporters or some bullshit.

Society was terrible for a great number of people back then, but hey, isn't it great that Dad was always home at 5, and we used to skin our knees on the playground but we wouldn't cry about it?
 
Here's a good article from 2012 about the demographics of conservatives:

Why America Keeps Getting More Conservative

Conservatives are, in comparison to liberals:
-Less affluent
-Less educated
-Work more blue-collar jobs
-Live in states that are more religious

A line I really like from it:

According to a survey conducted by the Pew Research Center, more than half (57 percent) of lower-income Republicans (those with family incomes of less than $30,000) said that government does not do enough for the poor, while less than one in five (18 percent) said it does too much. Richer Republicans (those with incomes of $75,000 or more), perhaps not surprisingly, overwhelmingly think government does too much.
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So take what you will. To be honest, a lot of people posting in this thread seem to be filled with more hate than the people they're hating. You can talk about culture, but a lot of conservatives are born into their situations. It's their culture as well. Just because you have a painted picture that conservatives are affluent and out to get you doesn't mean it's 100% true.

While I generally fall more on the liberal side, a bulk of my family and friends are conservative. It's deeply rooted in their heritage and culture. These are incredible people that volunteer every weekend, donate to shelters, donate money to the rescue mission, and are just wonderful people. Yet I feel like their identity is being spit on.
 
ThusZarathustra said:
I'm an electrician, man. My dad was a general contractor. I've squeezed into the most disgusting of crawlspaces in my time. I'm not trying to stand above anyone or tear anyone down. And I believe in equality and fairness too, believe it or not. And I also wonder about how people see trades like mine and people like me and mine, simple as that.
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I'm not sure what criticisms with conservative values have to do with the way people see your trade. Conservatism isn't inherently associated with your trade or blue collar work in general. At issue are the values outlined in the OP. I can say with a certain amount of confidence electricians and blue collar workers in general are well respected.

Sorry. Got a little heated.
 
bennywhatever said:
Here's a good article from 2012 about the demographics of conservatives:

Why America Keeps Getting More Conservative

Conservatives are, in comparison to liberals:
-Less affluent
-Less educated
-Work more blue-collar jobs
-Live in states that are more religious

A line I really like from it:

So take what you will. To be honest, a lot of people posting in this thread seem to be filled with more hate than the people they're hating. You can talk about culture, but a lot of conservatives are born into their situations. It's their culture as well. Just because you have a painted picture that conservatives are affluent and out to get you doesn't mean it's 100% true.
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That article reads very much like someone trying to go "No it's okay guys, Romney can totally win this!" His thesis is America is getting more conservative, and his only evidence is that there are more conservatives - he doesn't mention the number of people identifying as conservative have gone down, even though they're still a majority.

Sorry I have no respect for bigots and assholes who ballyhoo about the good ol' days when men were men and women stayed in the kitchen, and then punch Trump protesters because fuck black people. Even if you agree with the conservative values laid out by the OP I think you'd be very hard pressed reconciling those with anything that's going on in the conservative political movement.

While I generally fall more on the liberal side, a bulk of my family and friends are conservative. It's deeply rooted in their heritage and culture. These are incredible people that volunteer every weekend, donate to shelters, donate money to the rescue mission, and are just wonderful people. Yet I feel like their identity is being spit on.
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Cool. Now I'd appreciate it if they stopped spitting on other peoples' identity (gays, immigrants, single mothers/parents, Muslims, African-Americans) by supporting guys like Trump.
 
Dennis said:
What is wrong with this?

Two parents and some kids?

Surely we are not vilifying that?
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http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198285860&postcount=84

While that family is eating hotdogs some black kid is being lynched in Mississippi for whistling at a white girl. The reality of making America great again is that it would make America a very hard place to live in if you're not a white, straight and middle class family.

Like I said in that post, that's why I think it's bullshit.
 
Aaron Strife said:
It paints a very naive, idealized version of the 1950s-60s.

Like "Look at this middle-class suburban family! Grilling weiners and shit! Those are the family values I remember!" and then you find out they're fucking George Wallace supporters or some bullshit.

Society was terrible for a great number of people back then, but hey, isn't it great that Dad was always home at 5, and we used to skin our knees on the playground but we wouldn't cry about it?
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Apart from the old-fashioned art style and time specific clothes this is just a family out in the garden.

I had that growing up in a working class, rented, home.

Nothing to hate on.
 
Aaron Strife said:
Sorry I have no respect for bigots and assholes who ballyhoo about the good ol' days when men were men and women stayed in the kitchen, and then punch Trump protesters because fuck black people. Even if you agree with the conservative values laid out by the OP I think you'd be very hard pressed reconciling those with anything that's going on in the conservative political movement.
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I don't know a single conservative that has ever ballyhoo'd about the good ol' days. I mean, I know a few elderly people that talk about the old days, but no one from age 25 - 60. I live in a deeply conservative town in southwestern Indiana, and these stereotypes in this thread just seem so off to me.

Aaron Strife said:
Cool. Now I'd appreciate it if they stopped spitting on other peoples' identity (gays, immigrants, single mothers/parents, Muslims, African-Americans) by supporting guys like Trump.
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None of them do this. Don't put words in their mouths.
 
"Conservative Values" to me is code for:

Lets go back to when White, Straight, Capitalist, Christian Men had all the power and influence and everyone else was quiet, obedient, and knew their place.

Basically, a nostalgic vision the 50s that ignores all the turmoil that actually went on during the decade.

Lets be clear, most conservatives do not want to eradicate Gays, atheists, and minorities. They just want them to keep their heads low, shut up and not draw any attention to themselves or the problems they face. Out of sight and out of mind.
 
bennywhatever said:
I don't know a single conservative that has ever ballyhoo'd about the good ol' days. I mean, I know a few elderly people that talk about the old days, but no one from age 25 - 60. I live in a deeply conservative town in southwestern Indiana, and these stereotypes in this thread just seem so off to me.
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I know plenty that do. Men in their 30's, no less.
 
bennywhatever said:
None of them do this. Don't put words in their mouths.
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Excuse me? Who's putting Trump over the finish line? It sure as hell isn't liberals.

Who are your conservative friends/relatives planning on voting for in the November election? Filling in a bubble at the ballot is far more impactful than some people on GAF being meanies.

Yeah maybe they support Republicans for tax breaks or whatever. Now try explaining that to black people who are called thugs, Mexicans and Muslims who are told they should leave the country, women who are called sluts and gays who are told they're going to Hell. "Sorry about your basic humanity being questioned, but you know, it's all about those Benjamins! Love me some conservative values!"
 
shem935 said:
I'm not sure what criticisms with conservative values have to do with the way people see your trade. Conservatism isn't inherently associated with your trade or blue collar work in general. At issue are the values outlined in the OP. I can say with a certain amount of confidence electricians and blue collar workers in general are well respected.

Sorry. Got a little heated.
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I agree with all the criticisms of US political conservatism in the thread. So much so that I feel they're largely not necessary. I just find that the "safe thinking" that comes from having a traditionally followed path of success, which is what underlies all the stupid bullshit of conservative politics, also pops up a lot in a much more personal, close-to-home way too.
 
vicissitudes said:
It's sad to see Conservatism politicized so much these days and all the Trump haters paint all Conservatives as "racists, bigots, uneducated, violent, hateful."

To me, conservative values stand for:

- Traditional families, with two-parent households. Now, this is simply one of many ways families can look. I'm not saying any one way is right or wrong. But conservatism advocates for having children, and having two parents share household responsibilities, and having dinner at the family table (and not in front of the TV/computer), and talking to our kids.
- Manners and decorum. A time when etiquette mattered more in society, and children learned how to properly set up the dinner table and greet adults. Swearing was considered indecorous, and popular songs had clean lyrics. People debated with each other with civility, not with insults or profanities.
- Fashion: conservatism often means longer skirts, less cleavage, and a philosophy of "less is more." It encourages showing restraint when it comes to: talking about yourself, displaying yourself, and drawing attention to yourself. It preaches kindness over narcissism.
- Face-to-face interactions: it harkins to a time when we knew our neighbors and made in person visits to our friends, not more impersonal methods of connecting such as over email, text, Facebook, or snapchat.
- Hard work: not that people today do not work hard, but Conservatism focuses on having a good work ethic, and making something of yourself. Contributing something worthwhile to society. Not the consumerist mindset so prevalent today that's mostly about "what am I getting" and "how much more can I buy."

Now, none of these are right or wrong. They are simply a set of values one can choose to live or not to live by. And conservatism means different things to different people. Thus this thread. I have given a few examples of what I consider to represent conservative values. How about you? Is it indistinguishable from the politics of the modern Republican party? Or do you have other personal views of conservatism? And how do you feel about them?
Click to expand...

EMT0 said:
Conservatism is a political ideology of delaying, discouraging, or in some cases even reversing(Reactionaries) societal advancement in the image that they themselves value to a point of idealization. Almost always associated with intolerance precisely because those who harken to these values marry a) their take on 'proper' Christianity and b) their own morality to it. Universally the 'losers' of history, as their stances never mesh with societal trends. Almost always ignore what others would suffer under with their 'ideals' at best, or at worst are actively hoping the worst on others with whom they disagree. See: The romanticization of the 1950s by white Americans ignoring the reality faced by minority groups.

And finally, a shifting metric because what a conservative in the 1850s believed versus a conservative in the 1950s believed is night and day. Human history is a giant example of tradition being thrown away because it is quite literally idealization of the past.

Pretty sure we have a different understanding of 'Conservative values' OP. To me it's a code word for 'the good ol days'.
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To me it means you support a system built upon exploitation and you're a greek narco
 
shem935 said:
No no no you misunderstand. People are uneducated, hateful, bigoted, and racist if they defend those core values. Not western values
TM
whatever that means. The issue are those values which are often cloaked in modern day american conservatism.
Click to expand...

aeolist said:
are those the core values of western culture? or is it things like tolerance, personal freedom, equality for all, and government representative of the governed?
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Dunno. It seems like people take whatever their personal beliefs are, and somehow lump them into acceptable western culture. That, or they equivocate 'modern' with 'western. '

Human rights and representative government? Sure. That's western culture. Those have deep history. Tolerance though? Tolerance of what? It's not really a western civilization cultural value to tolerate other cultures that don't believe in human rights of represenstative government. Carte blanche tolerance of other cultures doesnt' really fit. That's more a brand new value than something that has years of history behind it.

As for the conservative values posted, they are to some degree a part of western culture, it's the ethical/traditions/social norms. That person mentioned Modesty, Decency, Work ethic... those are definitely social norms in western culture... western culture generally shuns people who are immodest, indecent, and lazy.
 
Dennis said:
Apart from the old-fashioned art style and time specific clothes this is just a family out in the garden.

I had that growing up in a working class, rented, home.

Nothing to hate on.
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I mean nothing against it, I guess I'm just tired of people holding it as the American Dream and kind of disregarding the many, many less fortunate who've made it in their own ways.

Like I think it's important to recognize too that it's easier for white 50s Dad to get a well-paying job when huge swaths of the population are discriminated against in hiring and he's really only competing against other white males. The fact that so many whites people were able to enjoy that lifestyle is built on the oppression of racial minorities who were denied that.
 
Aaron Strife said:
Excuse me? Who's putting Trump over the finish line? It sure as hell isn't liberals.
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I was referring to your comment about them spitting on peoples' identities. I honestly don't know who my friends and family are voting for. I'm just a bit irked though, because it feels like you're attacking my family and friends for things they're not doing. Because they identify as conservative, you're lumping them into the same pot as the loud, obnoxious conservatives that get the most media attention. Those are just the most vocal.
 
Dennis said:
What is wrong with this?

Two parents and some kids?

Surely we are not vilifying that?
Click to expand...

The problem is conservatives see this as the only ideal and what everyone must strive for. Anyone and everyone who deviates from this ideal in anyway is not a "Real American."
 
bennywhatever said:
I was referring to your comment about them spitting on peoples' identities. I honestly don't know who my friends and family are voting for. I'm just a bit irked though, because it feels like you're attacking my family and friends for things they're not doing. Because they identify as conservative, you're lumping them into the same pot as the loud, obnoxious conservatives that get the most media attention. Those are just the most vocal.
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The most vocal are the ones who are winning!

And it's not like past Republicans have been any more empathetic. Romney called half the country freeloaders and that dude was a fucking Mormon. McCain sounded every dog whistle there was on black people, and that was after Bush beat him in 2000 by spreading lies about him having an illegitimate black daughter.
 
What we think of as the traditional family of two parents, 2.5 kids and skippy the dog isn't very traditional if you go back a generation or two (or many other countries today). Typically families also involve grandparents, aunts and uncles, etc living nearby or in the same household / multifamily homes.

There's nothing wrong with that picture of the family grilling the hotdog by itself but it does represent many exclusionary policies that were happening around that time period. Single family homes that were only accessible to middle class whites while everybody else was ignored.
 
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