Support NeoGAF

[sprsk]

Last night i was trying to go to sleep, and i felt and heard myself land on my bed. This freaked me out big time, and i have no real explanaition for it. Vennt tells me its something called a "Hypnagogic State" and it had me curious about the concious and what the hell happens to it when the power gets shut off.

So, what exactly do you guys think happens when we die? Does all that info just disappear? Or is it locked in our minds just waiting for some super technology to come by and release it?

 

[effzee]

yes.

 

[bjork]

Don't know what I believe, but I always liked this theory:

"Ho Ho Hoooo. Yes, it is something, isn't it? Well, let's get to the subject. Eventually... all humans die. What happens to them after they die? The body decomposes, and returns to the Planet. That much everyone knows. What about their consciousness, their hearts and their souls? The soul too returns to the Planet. And not only those of humans, but everything on this Planet. In fact, all living things in the universe, are the same. The spirits that return to the Planet, merge with one another and roam the Planet. They roam, converge, and divide, becoming a swell, called the 'Lifestream'. Lifestream... In other words, a path of energy of the souls roaming the Planet. 'Spirit Energy' is a word that you should never forget. A new life... children are blessed with Spirit energy and are brought into the world. Then, the time comes when they die and once again return to the Planet... Of course there are exceptions, but this is the way of the world."

 

[Doth Togo]

Ironically enough, I've thought that "heaven" in a Christian sense is the world where we are now...but this world is merely VR. Consider our soul and our mind are wrapped in a VR suit and we're all playing on the Internet which is earth and this realm.

I do not believe in a hell.

 

[Gattsu25]

Don't know what I believe, but I always liked this theory:

"Ho Ho Hoooo. Yes, it is something, isn't it? Well, let's get to the subject. Eventually... all humans die. What happens to them after they die? The body decomposes, and returns to the Planet. That much everyone knows. What about their consciousness, their hearts and their souls? The soul too returns to the Planet. And not only those of humans, but everything on this Planet. In fact, all living things in the universe, are the same. The spirits that return to the Planet, merge with one another and roam the Planet. They roam, converge, and divide, becoming a swell, called the 'Lifestream'. Lifestream... In other words, a path of energy of the souls roaming the Planet. 'Spirit Energy' is a word that you should never forget. A new life... children are blessed with Spirit energy and are brought into the world. Then, the time comes when they die and once again return to the Planet... Of course there are exceptions, but this is the way of the world."

 

[bjork]

There is no spoon.

 

[Gattsu25]

Boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Boy: There is no spoon.
Neo: There is no spoon?
Boy: Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.

Edit: that kid is freaky

 

[EviLore]

When I die, in all likelihood, my consciousness will be extinguished and I will cease to exist.

You'd think that this would help alleviate me of any procrastination issues ;b

It's a problem, of course, considering my will of self preservation. But there's no solving it, so I may as well resign myself to finding out whenever my heart stops beating. Doesn't take the fear away, but then again I'm not going to start having faith in a religion, am I?

 

[TheQueen'sOwn]

We did this just recently didn't we?

http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=4050&page=1

 

[sprsk]

meh! its not like im posting all your base or something.

 

[Laurent]

Nothing.

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

Now that I'm in my early 20's death seems more real to me. I panic every now and then and think "what if there is nothing after this?" Perhaps I need to be more spiritual.

 

[Naked Snake]

I'd like to know the answer to that question too, I really don't like the idea of "not existing" at all, I can't even understand it.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

if i die tommorrow thats A-OK with me, not that im depressed im just comfertable with death, whatever comes after it is anyones guess.

 

[OmniGamer]

I'd like to know the answer to that question too, I really don't like the idea of "not existing" at all, I can't even understand it.

Why not? You didn't exist before you were born afterall.

 

[sprsk]

Why not? You didn't exist before you were born afterall.

does the law of conservation not apply to your thoughts? something has to happen to all that junk.

 

[Vennt]

Death is nothing really to worry about IMO.

Either:

1) Your energy/soul/whatever ceases to be along with your body, however as you cease to be you will be entirely unaware of it. (Along with being unaware of anything for that matter. )

or

2) Theres an Afterlife or re-incarnation, you get a 2nd ride of the Rollercoaster. We ascend & shit.

Assuming there's an afterlife, I steadfastly refuse to believe in any form of "Hell", either our existance is a chrysalis-like stage of being and we move on and up, or we fail to ascend & get to try again, or fail and cease to be (see 1.)

Freeburn.

 

[Dice]

I often wonder about the nature of our consciousness, and I'm a christian! Haha, scripture actually doesn't say a great deal about it, it only speaks of an inner man which is where our thoughts and emotions come from.

The difference between conscious and unconscious matter is something still a mystery to science. I mean a pregnant woman piece a piece of bread which has no consciousness and it goes to form a living conscious person. What a mystery, eh? But something in that is probably part of the miracles Christ did.

Well I've though about it, and I've thought of our brains and how they handle everything. Well if you think about it, there is no taste or color or any of that, they are just light waves moving at different rates and molecules with different structures.

So where do colors and taste come from? Naturally it's how our brain interprets thigns to us.... oh but wait a minute who is the brain interpreting it to, isn't my brain me? Quite frankly I'd say no. We've found ways in which the brain retains memories and such, but not a "consciousness center" or anything.

So I've had a thought, that possibly sight, taste, smell, whatever, thats exactly how the spiritual realm works. And our brains interpret this physical world which is foreign to our spirits into a language our spirit understands. Sort of like how a TV takes invisible signals and makes them into a picture, get it?

They're kind of mixed together for now, what one does will affect the other and vice versa. But then perhaps the spiritual can be involved directly without need for the body to participate, like with visions and stuff, but then I suppose that does leave changes to the memory banks in your brain. I don't know for sure, but these are just some theories.

So life after death... well of course I believe in heaven and hell and certain things decide where you go. Hwo does it work? Well I think this explains it pretty well, but to be on topic as I was saying the experiences of consciousness work in the same way. The major difference is that it is no longer bound by human limitations of experience, allowing for infinite possibilities.

Of course that can be either infinitely better than you could imagine or infinitely worse depending on where you are headed. But nevertheless I think being all mixed with these bodies is definitely limiting, at least apart from supernatural exceptions. Call me crazy (you probably wil anyway), but thats the way I see it.

 

[OmniGamer]

does the law of conservation not apply to your thoughts? something has to happen to all that junk.

If that's the case, then where did "your thoughts" come from before you were born...if it's not destroyed when you die, what created it? Of course i don't believe in the tangibility of thoughts anyway.

 

[DCharlie]

it'll probably be the same as what it was like for those billions of years before you were alive.
Seems a sick joke though to have this life, and then after you pass away, that's it all erased and you life will have been little more than a blip in the grand scheme of things. Oh well...

anyways, had this acid inspired thought when i had a really bad trip in which it appeared that every 5 seconds of my life would repeat over and over again....

if you are dead, you can't experience time

if you can't experience time, regardless of the fact that you are dead (!)

then logically the difference between 1 second and an infinte length of time is zero.

if that's the case, what if this is all "intellegent design"?

What if (and i'm not a religious man, but i was that night) God is some sort of astroplane/sub atomic coder?

What if that's the whole plan : you die, but you appear in the "after life" zone X million years later - along with everyone else simultaneously (LOGISTICS NIGHTMARE! ) ?

And perhaps when Jesus came back to earth, it was just to fix a glitch in gods code?
He after all died for us to enter into heaven right?
Perhaps he was misquoted - perhaps it was
"I will die for your BINs"

Picture the scene - God is sitting there on a mainframe box , toying with beard, removing cheesy wotsits from it every now and then, and supping at an oversized bottle of Dr. Pepper.

Then God is like

"What the hell?! There appears to be people that aren't appearing in the afterlife!? Oh shit - line 240110 "if #state = dead and #never-eaten-fishcakes , goto afterlife" - BOLLOX! *glares at St Paul* Did you test this?????? Hmmm... postmortem meeting later, sonny jim. Anyways , Son, go and sort this out will you? I closed the whole system off so i couldn't alter the code once in place, so i'm afraid one of is going to have to go and sort this out.... and i'm having my beard trimmed this weekend.... whats that you say? Oh, yes, i KNOW i'm a woman and i shouldn't really have a beard...."


.... okay, so you probably just die and that's that. But hey - you never know. Perhaps the after life is what you make it out to be? Who knows?

 

[Chrono]

What if (and i'm not a religious man, but i was that night) God is some sort of astroplane/sub atomic coder?

...


And perhaps when Jesus came back to earth, it was just to fix a glitch in gods code?
?

Isn't God "perfect" ? If he is God then his "design" must have no flaws and everything wrong is done for a "reason." Now if we were designed and coded by an alien race...

 

[MrPing1000]

i hope theres something but being the semi depressed pesemist that i am, i cannot help but think there is not.



Dammit

 

[DCharlie]

i can agree with Alien race.

Especially if it's an agreement with someone with a Gantz avatar.

 

[Ecrofirt]

Is anyone else scard as hell at the idea of dying?

I'm extremely afraid at the very idea of it. I don't want to imagine it. I can picture myself lying in a bed, closing my eyes, and then all forms of existance cease to be. That's fucking scary.

I don't want to die.

 

[Dice]

Why not? You didn't exist before you were born afterall.

I don't understand this reasoning. Just because there was a time one did not exist they should think that it's perfectly ok? Why can there not be a great preference for existence? Even so great that one fears to cease being?

Is anyone else scard as hell at the idea of dying?

I'm extremely afraid at the very idea of it. I don't want to imagine it. I can picture myself lying in a bed, closing my eyes, and then all forms of existance cease to be. That's fucking scary.

I don't want to die.

It's perfectly normal to feel that way. We weren't meant to cease to exist, it scary and it doesn't sound right because it's not. I think everyone knows this deep down, but some try to refuse it by their reasoning.

Ecclesiastes 3:11
He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end.

 

[Patrick Klepek]

Is anyone else scard as hell at the idea of dying?

I'm extremely afraid at the very idea of it. I don't want to imagine it. I can picture myself lying in a bed, closing my eyes, and then all forms of existance cease to be. That's fucking scary.

I don't want to die.

it's my biggest fear.

 

[bjork]

As long as you leave when you're on good terms with the people who yuo care about, it's okay, I think. Whether or not you could think or be aware after you die, I'd still like to go out knowing how my few important people really feel about me, and me towards them, etc.

Not that it would make dying any easier, but I think it would make it a little bit easier to take.

 

[Ecrofirt]

I doubt that would make it any easier for me to swallow.

On a side note, I always play things off as "Hey, I'm going to die one day anyway, so I might as well live as I like now" in regards to when I do dangerous/stupid things.

Bah, I just can't think about it. Turning off my existance like a lightswitch is horrifying, and the idea of an afterlife seems too fantastical to be true.

 

[way more]

I saw a dead body recently and it got me to thinking that maybe there really is a soul. It was so lifeless and inhuman, like his body was drained, void of all creation. But once dead I think nothing happens except a period of depression for all those that knew you. Besides, an after life would kinda nullify this world and all my hard work and accomplishments. So live your life getting to know those you care about, because once you are dead, they will be the only ones who carry on your memory.

 

[Ecrofirt]

Besides, an after life would kinda nullify this world and all my hard work and accomplishments.

That's what my main objection to the idea of an afterlife is.

 

[Dice]

All hard work and accomplishments are nothing anyway, it's all vanity. I'd argue that an afterlie is the only thing that would give this life meaning. Sure it would make selfish and material things pointless, but they are pointless anyway. What it would truly do is give life and love the value they were created with, the value they once had but man threw away.

That book I quoted earlier has a lot of interesting thoughts on life. It does have some conclusions on honoring God, but it was before Christ so a lot of the thoughts leading up to that are just plain practical and apply even if you don't believe in God. Read away if you wish. I'd share more from my perspective but that pretty much sums it up (though it may lead you to believe in moralism, which doesn't satisfy God's justice) so it'd be pointless for me to do so.

 

[Outlaw Pro Mod]

"People are often unreasonable, illogical, and self-centered; Forgive them anyway. If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives; Be kind anyway. If you are successful you will win some false friends and true enemies; Succeed anyway. If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you; Be honest and frank anyway. What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight; Build anyway. If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous; Be happy anyway. The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow; Do good anyway. Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough; Give the world the best you've got anyway. You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and God; It was never between you and them anyway."

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Is anyone else scard as hell at the idea of dying?

I'm extremely afraid at the very idea of it. I don't want to imagine it. I can picture myself lying in a bed, closing my eyes, and then all forms of existance cease to be. That's fucking scary.

I don't want to die.

Ditto.

 

[Chrono]

"People are often unreasonable, illogical, and self-centered; Forgive them anyway. If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives; Be kind anyway. If you are successful you will win some false friends and true enemies; Succeed anyway. If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you; Be honest and frank anyway. What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight; Build anyway. If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous; Be happy anyway. The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow; Do good anyway. Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough; Give the world the best you've got anyway. You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and God; It was never between you and them anyway."

lol the ending rocks.

So basically I can be nice to people and do good things, but ONLY for "god" and not people or the sake of being a good person? heh I might as well be an asshole and wish them eternal suffering (....) while I do "good" for them which I'm actually doing for god. And then I'll enter a heaven with a bunch of other morons who lived their lifes doing good things just to please god and get in heaven; to hell with other people. In other words heaven is for people that live their lives shaking and fearing god and doing things selfishly to get into this heaven out of pure greed.

It's like how a hypocrite does a good thing in order to achieve something else for his greed. I don't understand this God really. Does he think those are the "good" people in his heaven or just the morons that feared something bigger then them? I can beat a puppy and let it fear me. I guess I can tell myself I'm great.. but really...


IMO being a good person means doing good things without any gains. Like the people who volunteer for the U.N. and spend their lives in some awful place in a 3rd world country just to help people. (and no that does not include black mailing poor people into your own believes for food and medicine)

 

[darscot]

Why would an aftertlife nullify this life. Does every new day nullify the last? Your accomplishments from yesterday are null and void when you wake up today?

I'm not a real believer in the afterlife. It'll be a cool surprise if it exists. But I basically believe you die and your afterlife exist only in the people that remember you. I don't really fear death sure I have survival instincts, but since we all die it makes no sense to fear it. We all breath do you fear that?

 

[DonasaurusRex]

you stop breathing.

I think that post you quoted went way over your head or something chrono. He was just saying people shouldnt let others get to them or lower their standard of morals no matter what the treatment they receive from them. I think he meant in the end the only person accountable for you is you anyway so why let others get to you?

 

[Dice]

lol the ending rocks.

So basically I can be nice to people and do good things, but ONLY for "god" and not people or the sake of being a good person? heh I might as well be an asshole and wish them eternal suffering (....) while I do "good" for them which I'm actually doing for god.

No, it's kind of both. You do it because it's the right thing to do, but God is the one who determines what the right thing to do is and whether you do it is important to Him. So the authors inclusion was more matter-of-fact than you make it out to be.

And then I'll enter a heaven with a bunch of other morons who lived their lifes doing good things just to please god and get in heaven; to hell with other people. In other words heaven is for people that live their lives shaking and fearing god and doing things selfishly to get into this heaven out of pure greed.

It's like how a hypocrite does a good thing in order to achieve something else for his greed.

No, thats what the pharisees did and it really didn't work out for them. God judges the heart and real faith is born out of love not greed. If you're doing good works just for a reward and not because you know it's the right thing to do then God knows that and He'll judge you for it. Not to mention the whole concept of justifcation by works is ridiculous in the first place.

I don't understand this God really. Does he think those are the "good" people in his heaven or just the morons that feared something bigger then them? I can beat a puppy and let it fear me. I guess I can tell myself I'm great.. but really...

Except in the case of God He really is greater. People often forget that fact and judge Him as though He were a man. God is incapable of being pretensious or egotistical because He truly is infinitely greater than anything else. He isn't just a bigger more powerful man or anything so that line of reasoning doesn't apply to Him. He is the infinite, perfect, all-defining, and only original being in all existence. You think it's not fair for Him to be more important than you or something else? what else could be more worthy? what else is more important in the order of things?

Everyone gives honor and praise to that which is worthy of it, and whatever is more worthy of it they give more. So if God really is God then He automatically one-ups anything in existence because no matter how great it is, He was the one who created it. But beyond that He still infinitely surpasses it in greatness and is infinitely more worthy and more important. He holds the entire universe together what more could you ask for to deem Him worthy of your honor? Perhaps you want Him to give you something? He already gave you everything you have. Perhaps He should see what it's like down here? He already humbled Himself to nothing as Christ to save you.

Honestly, I don't mind if a person doesn't believe in God, but it's quite ridiculous to lambast the worldview of millions of people as foolishness without even considering the most basic of logical conclusions their worldview necessitates. And it's even worse to begin mocking them and labeling them as a bunch of greedy hypocrites trying to manipulate circumstances solely unto their own eternal benefit. Try considering the words you are about to speak a little more before judging others.

 

[Mumbles]

Is anyone else scard as hell at the idea of dying?

Well, I'm definitely scared of *dying* , but not of death itself, so we're clearly discussing different things. What you wrote about simply ceasing to be is something I would have no problem with.

OTOH, violent death, slowly and painfully deteriorating, Alzheimer's...especially that last one, are things that I prefer not to dwell on.

As for what happens after you die, as I said in the last thread, I doubt there's any such thing as an afterlife. The evidence points to us being, at the end, entirely physical in existence, and frankly, I've never heard of any afterlife idea that makes any sense at all. Undetectable energy reappears in another being? Evil tyrant tortures you forever unless you worshipped it when it was hiding? Loving fun guy welcomes you to eternal bliss, but stuck you in a body for no apparent reason for x years? I still don't understand how people can believe in any of that.

 

[way more]

All hard work and accomplishments are nothing anyway, it's all vanity. I'd argue that an afterlie is the only thing that would give this life meaning. Sure it would make selfish and material things pointless, but they are pointless anyway. What it would truly do is give life and love the value they were created with, the value they once had but man threw away..

Maybe nullify is too strong a word, but an afterlife would force me to reconsider if it was worth living. If there is an afterlife, then in this world I may as well be waiting in a cage awaiting judgment, my true potential is limited and I'm under constant surveillance being watched and judged. Love and honor would just be placeholder feelings until I can reunite with God. I've been reduced to a pet for some cosmic being, I think this is how Adam must have felt and I say good for him for escaping that prison.
As for our own creations meaning nothing, I think humans are capable of creating more then just selfish and material possessions. Some of us do create meaning and love and value.

 

[Error Macro]

Sporks, you were having an out of body experience. No, I'm not just saying bullshit, I've had one myself. Freaked the shit out of me.

 

[Gregory]

Nothing happens. Guaranteed. It will be just like when you undergo surgery, when they put you to sleep. There`s nothing until you wake up. Except you don`t wake up.

good enough for me.

 

[Chrono]

No, thats what the pharisees did and it really didn't work out for them. God judges the heart and real faith is born out of love not greed. If you're doing good works just for a reward and not because you know it's the right thing to do then God knows that and He'll judge you for it.

then why threaten humans with hell? If I put a gun to your head and ordered you to praise me. If you do, you get millions of dollars and this gun away from your head. If you don't, I'll blow your brains out. Of course everybody will praise that dude and live happily ever after.

Except in the case of God He really is greater. People often forget that fact and judge Him as though He were a man. God is incapable of being pretensious or egotistical because He truly is infinitely greater than anything else. He isn't just a bigger more powerful man or anything so that line of reasoning doesn't apply to Him. He is the infinite, perfect, all-defining, and only original being in all existence. You think it's not fair for Him to be more important than you or something else? what else could be more worthy? what else is more important in the order of things?

Ok. He is greater. Why would some one THAT GREAT create a hell for us little humans and sends other humans to "guide us" to the "truth." why does he play hide and seek? why can't he show his great self? If we can't comprehend it then surely his greatness can make us comprehend it. Sending "prophets" and scriptures and telling people ridculous things like stone people who have sex before marriage --things that turned out ,as obvious from today's society, not to curse societies to hell and degrade them beyond salvation-- is not the best way for him to guide us to his greatness. afterall he gave us brains to think with.

He holds the entire universe together what more could you ask for to deem Him worthy of your honor?

Him not caring for my honor (i.e. not freaking out and torturing me for eternity if I don't accept him) would be a start.

He already humbled Himself to nothing as Christ to save you.

to the people who lived around jesus, maybe yes. But not to me. I was born 2000 years after he was "sent." And how the hell did he "humble" himself? sending sombody to tell us that killing people is bad? we knew that before. Sending somebody to tell us little and insignificant humans to recognize how great he is? a look at the start at night is more then enough. More then that and he might as well show himself. Or send a group of angels with better answers on the universe then "god is great."

Honestly, I don't mind if a person doesn't believe in God,

That's very nice of you.

In the after life, pass by my cell in hell and tell me all about heaven.

but it's quite ridiculous to lambast the worldview of millions of people as foolishness

millions or billions I don't care. I remember a BBC survey that showd some 40% of people in the muslim world thought of bin laden as a jihadist or that 9-11 was justified. That's several hundred million morons. I'm not going to give their "reasons" one more second of thought just because there are millions of them.

without even considering the most basic of logical conclusions their worldview necessitates.

Well one christian says the whole non-christian world will burn in hell and another tells me everybody will go to heaven and fuck like rabbits. "basic logical conclusions" ?

And it's even worse to begin mocking them and labeling them as a bunch of greedy hypocrites trying to manipulate circumstances solely unto their own eternal benefit.

I apologize for that.

I also demand an apology from all christians/god/jesus/bush/you/the pope/whatever mocking my life style and believes and threating me with "divine suffering."

Any chance of a new bible edition?

Try considering the words you are about to speak a little more before judging others.

Why don't you try considering your words before judging others? too bad judging others is part of your believe. (and please don't say "jesus loves you" or "you have a choice." The fact that you claim to have your own way which is the "right way" is enough of a condemnation of any else who is not with you)

Although you are correct. I should be more considerate. In this case, however, I dont care. Just like I know it's bad to curse some people but I still call saddam an asshole. I don't care to respect people that find EVERYTHING about me "satanic." At least my disrespect came after THEIRS/YOURS. I'm sorry you were offended. I've read many of your posts and you seem to be a good person. Feel free to write a ten page post but dont expect a reply. I originally wrote just "lol the ending rocked" but then edited more and more into it and I don't want to get dragged into this as it will only mess my head even more.

 

[demon]

Is anyone else scard as hell at the idea of dying?

I'm extremely afraid at the very idea of it. I don't want to imagine it. I can picture myself lying in a bed, closing my eyes, and then all forms of existance cease to be. That's fucking scary.

I don't want to die.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Dice]

Maybe nullify is too strong a word, but an afterlife would force me to reconsider if it was worth living. If there is an afterlife, then in this world I may as well be waiting in a cage awaiting judgment, my true potential is limited and I'm under constant surveillance being watched and judged. Love and honor would just be placeholder feelings until I can reunite with God. I've been reduced to a pet for some cosmic being, I think this is how Adam must have felt and I say good for him for escaping that prison.

When God first made Adam life was not like it is now. It was essentially heaven on earth, it was all declared "good" in God's sight and man walked with Him. No death, no pain, no judgment to come. It was already as it was supposed to be, and they threw it all away.

As for our own creations meaning nothing, I think humans are capable of creating more then just selfish and material possessions. Some of us do create meaning and love and value.

But to what end? It has all been done before, and it passed away. Anything you do will pass as well, forgotten and turned to dust blowing in the wind. That is what I meant, this world is forever perishing now, it has the curse of death on it.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Nothing happens. Guaranteed. It will be just like when you undergo surgery, when they put you to sleep. There`s nothing until you wake up. Except you don`t wake up.

Or dream.

 

[Gregory]

Or dream.

You don`t dream under surgery. Atleast I haven`t in my 6 surgeries. You just fall abruptly asleep and wake up in what feels like 2 seconds later. Even though you`ve been away for hours.

It feels a little different to sleep. You are more "out" in a way. Like being knocked unconscious I guess.
I`m not saying people can`t dream under anesthesia, but I think it`s rare.

 

[darscot]

I don't like be put under so I when ever I have to be put under I just ask them to go easy. It's very weird you can actually hear things but have no concept of time. Everything still happens in 2 seconds but you can pick up weird things. When I had my wisdom teeth pulled I distinctly remember hearing each of my teeth landing in the metal tray with a clink. Definatly a cool experience almost out of body.

 

[DopeyFish]

You don`t dream under surgery. Atleast I haven`t in my 6 surgeries. You just fall abruptly asleep and wake up in what feels like 2 seconds later. Even though you`ve been away for hours.

It feels a little different to sleep. You are more "out" in a way. Like being knocked unconscious I guess.
I`m not saying people can`t dream under anesthesia, but I think it`s rare.

someone was put out to remove their wisdom teeth and the dude ended up waking up halfway through operation screaming O_O

 

[Dice]

Ok. He is greater. Why would some one THAT GREAT create a hell for us little humans and sends other humans to "guide us" to the "truth." why does he play hide and seek? why can't he show his great self? If we can't comprehend it then surely his greatness can make us comprehend it. Sending "prophets" and scriptures and telling people ridculous things like stone people who have sex before marriage --things that turned out ,as obvious from today's society, not to curse societies to hell and degrade them beyond salvation-- is not the best way for him to guide us to his greatness. afterall he gave us brains to think with.

Ok well with this I understand your frustration and concede that it doesn't make any sense, but that is why I do not believe in it! lol. What you are decribing is a more modern theology that is an illogical, unbiblical load of crap.

My beliefs are almost completely in line with the reformed deominations (which are the oldest of protestant), although it gets rather complicated to explain (too much for a messageboard post) it's the only thing that makes sense both in sound reason and according to scripture. If you want the full deal on my beliefs, I've found the articles on this site to be solid for the most part....

http://www.monergism.com/

If you're interested, you'd first want to check the "Fall" link in the sidebar, then "Doctrines of Grace". To give you the short answer as to why He doesn't just do it Himself: He does. Got you curious now? haha. Check the link if you want, it'll explain it far better than I could.

Him not caring for my honor (i.e. not freaking out and torturing me for eternity if I don't accept him) would be a start.

There are 4 things going on in this statement...

1) Accurately understanding/stating the magnitude of hell
2) Misunderstanding and understating the magnitude and worthiness of God
3) Misunderstanding the purpose and overstating the magnitude of man
4) No consideration of divine justice/natural order of things

It's perfectly understandable for you to think there is a problem with hell in your current worldview. Hell is a biblical concept, so it doesn't make any sense without the biblical perspective and understanding of the order of things.

In this case, it seems at though you view honoring God in the same way as honoring another person, just a mutual respect between two beings. But biblically it is much more serious. Just as different forms of dishonor and neglection of the rights of others are viewed as crimes against human law, so dishonor and neglect of God's rights are crimes against divine law.

If you view God in the same way you view a man you'll think a minor punishment for a minor crime. But the more you see how God is worthy and has right to our honor, the greater the punishment ought to be. But God is that much times infinity, and so crimes against Him are infinitely grave.

to the people who lived around jesus, maybe yes. But not to me. I was born 2000 years after he was "sent." And how the hell did he "humble" himself? sending sombody to tell us that killing people is bad? we knew that before. Sending somebody to tell us little and insignificant humans to recognize how great he is? a look at the start at night is more then enough. More then that and he might as well show himself. Or send a group of angels with better answers on the universe then "god is great."

First of all Jesus wasn't just "somebody" but He was God incarnate. He dropped every single right and left the throne of heaven, think of it as kind of like a puppet maker deciding to become a puppet. That in itself is humbling, but the reason why He came was more so. It wasn't just to tell us God is great and play nice.

You see, man totally screwed himself over when he turned his back against God. Justice demands punishment for crimes, and it's not like good works are going to fix it (if you think so, next time you go to court try to bribe the judge by washing his car). Christ came to die for us as a substitutionary atonement, the details are a bit complex (check the link I posted earlier), but thats how it is.

So basically He created us, we said screw Him and did everything possible to dishonor Him, He humbled Himself and became a man, then was crucified and far beyond that took on our sin on the cross AND the punishment for it, just to save us when we did everything to not deserve it.

This probably sounds weird to you if you are unfamiliar with the nature of the Trinity, sin, punishment and atonement, but thats way I linked you to that site if you are curious. If you do get interested feel free to PM me if you're not sure where to look for the answer to a certain question.

That's very nice of you.

In the after life, pass by my cell in hell and tell me all about heaven.

Obviously I meant mind as in offended by what they have to say

Well one christian says the whole non-christian world will burn in hell and another tells me everybody will go to heaven and fuck like rabbits. "basic logical conclusions" ?

I meant the logical conclusions of what God would have to be like if you believe His existence. That statement of mine was in response to your statements about God being tricked by people with bad hearts, God being like a person who beats a puppy, God only telling Himself He's great (was insinuated) etc.

Whatever, it seems there may have been a miscommunication.

I apologize for that.

I also demand an apology from all christians/god/jesus/bush/you/the pope/whatever mocking my life style and believes and threating me with "divine suffering."

Any chance of a new bible edition?

Alright, I can only be responsible for myself and I won't mock you. However I can't change what I believe about the order of things. If you think I'm just threatening you with divine punishment I guess thats unfortunate, but these aren't theories and best guesses to me, they are real truths that I believe in fully.

Why don't you try considering your words before judging others? too bad judging others is part of your believe. (and please don't say "jesus loves you" or "you have a choice." The fact that you claim to have your own way which is the "right way" is enough of a condemnation of any else who is not with you)

You'll probably consider this a cop-out, but I don't judge people God does. Judging isn't my job, it is a process beyond me, out of my control. I can tell you what God has said about the method by which He judges people, but I can't do it myself. I don't think anyone has place to judge others, and I mean that not only in condemning others, but also in declaring them as free. I can do nither, I can't speak for God.

Although you are correct. I should be more considerate. In this case, however, I dont care. Just like I know it's bad to curse some people but I still call saddam an asshole. I don't care to respect people that find EVERYTHING about me "satanic." At least my disrespect came after THEIRS/YOURS. I'm sorry you were offended. I've read many of your posts and you seem to be a good person. Feel free to write a ten page post but dont expect a reply. I originally wrote just "lol the ending rocked" but then edited more and more into it and I don't want to get dragged into this as it will only mess my head even more.

I understand, I don't expect people to be perfect but I'm big into encouraging each other to do what is right anyway.

Also, while obviously I would enjoy discussing my religion with others, arguing about it certainly isn't in my interests, so if thats where this is headed I'd like to drop it as well. I just thought I'd explain some things a bit since it's obvious you've had many run-ins with terrible misrepresentations of what christianity is about and of course it's a rather personal issue to me.

 

[RiZ III]

I do believe in an afterlife and all but I think when you die, your dead. As in you become dust and there is nothing left of you. Your soul isnt taken to heaven or whatever. I dont even think a soul is anything like a human body. Its just a sort of memory card so when we are recreated on the day of judgement, that soul / data will be used to recreate us just like we were. Thats my view of it anyways.