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What do you think Microsoft needs to do to become successful?
- Thread starter levyjl1988
- Start date
MAX PAYMENT
Member
Sometimes they don't think it be like it is, but it do.
samoilaaa
Member
you something is wrong with the industry when a game is more praised for its cinematics and emotional moments instead of its gameplay
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Caio
Member
I think Microsoft is already successful. Maybe you meant what MS has to do to be more competitive VS Sony. By the way, I hope the 2023 line-up will be great, and hope they will put more effort in delivering new IPs and good Exclusive Games. The generation is still very early, and I would talk about this Topic at the end of the generation, not now. I'm confident both Sony and MS will deliver amazing things along this Gen, as they have already delivered some great games. Ok, if I have to be really honest, I feel to say that I was expecting more from MS for this Holiday 2022, but in the end they have deliverd in 2021, with FH5, FS and Halo Infinite. Sony, on the other hand, didn't deliver that much in the Holiday season 2021, but it's gonna be great right now and make record sales in Nov and Dec. 2023 will be the year where MS has to unswer in a powerful way, and I'm confident this will happen, it must happen as competition makes everybody stronger.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
You mean their own personal record. They still trail significantly behind Sony in console sales and by result subscription sales.
To Phil Spencer's own admission, their game pass sales are slowing even with console supply not keeping up with demand. That demand is largely because consumer spending is still extremely high.
This holiday season could be 'the last hurrah' for consumer spending before economic slowdown
This is why Sony is pumping out units fast. Eventually, demand IS going to slow down and when it does slow down and once there are options for available consoles, consumers are going to stop and evaluate which console they want to buy.
Right now you just have PS4 and X1 owners buying as many units as they can, because they want a next-gen console and can afford it due to reduced spending during the pandemic and higher wages, and federal and state relief.
Sony is running off the trajectory of the PS4, but projecting the PS2 trajectory down the road, it's because they feel confident that they've outpaced Microsoft despite Microsoft outpacing the X1 and maybe even the 360. Microsoft's lack of games will catch up to them next year, while Sony releasing Spider-Man 2. The numbers released for Skyrim on 360 were 13.7 million. Ultimately the game sold over 30 million copies across platforms. Even if Starfield can match the success of Skyrim, which I doubt, it won't drive Xbox Series sales, as the vast majority of people are going to buy this on PC.
I think we're going to see a tough couple years for Xbox. Microsoft's spending spree can't really buy time, the most they could do is buy exclusives, but that is exceedingly difficult to do with how the PS5 is selling. Companies saw what selling exclusivity to non-PlayStation consoles did to their franchises during the PS3 generation. People just move on to other titles. Tomb Raider never really recovered.
Games take 4-6 years to develop these days. Games needed to be in the pipeline for next year by 2019 at the latest. Bethesda has been working on Starfield since before 2018. What about their other studios? Starfield is coming out Q1/Q2... what does Microsoft have in the works for Q3/4 when most consoles are going to sell?
It's why they want CoD on GamePass ASAP. Phil Spencer is talking about reviving StarCraft... is a game already in development? Most likely not... so when would we see it? After the M&A finalizes and the game is greenlit, take on another 4-5 years. So you're talking 2027/2028 at the earliest.
You basically have to plan your whole generation out. That's why Sony has focused so much on cross gen games to re-use assets from PS4 hits to get games out as quickly as possible.
Other than Returnal and Demon's Souls, even they haven't put out much that doesn't reuse assets from earlier games. Sony has a studio assembly line producing content at a clip, where that just doesn't exist for Microsoft. Neither the studios or the assembly line. You just have random studios making random games. There will be quality here and there, but no annual strategy, no studio-by-studio strategy. Sony almost certainly has a plan to grow each of their individual studios, particularly Sucker Punch, Bluepoint, and Housemarque.
toxiichollow
Member
i wonder why some studios are allow more creative freedom(obsidian, ninja theory, playground) than others(343, the Coalition).
Arenafighter
Member
What a stupid Headline
They are successful. Sony is market leader that's it. Thank good we have competition
They are successful. Sony is market leader that's it. Thank good we have competition
feynoob
Banned
Are we having communication problems here?
You keep mentioning Goty, quality yet, keep ignoring the part, in which I clearly tell you that they need new IP first.
In for that goty/quality to happen, they need to make and release those games, otherwise they won't make what you keep writing.
Plus as I mentioned before, they already do. It's just geared towards different audiences.
feynoob
Banned
Not AAA games from MS.
You can check their library.
feynoob
Banned
See. This is what I mean, when people don't want to criticize them.
Also forspoken is much better, than whatever 3rd party exclusives they have done so far. That is the bar, MS needs to clear, about their 3rd party deals. Currently all those deals sucks too much.
vaibhavpisal
Member
I have been playing them. No need for me to check.
Grounded to Deathloop to Sea of Thieves.
There are more in development.
Psychonauts 2, Pentiment are type of games oozing with character and creativity.
They are doing good job.
It's no longer just three ips of Halo, Gears, Forza. That's very 2016 criticism at this point.
feynoob
Banned
Because you seem to deflect stuff from them all the time.
They don't need that from you.
You can partial. Critical when it needs to be. Defending when it needs to be.
You cant be doing 1 thing all the time.
Drizzlehell
Banned
Have a couple of new killer apps. Nobody gives a shit about Gears of War or Halo anymore, honesty. We're just being nostalgic about them at this point but they're like those old rock bands with a bunch of geezers desperately trying to stay relevant, and it's kinda pathetic. They need a hot new IP as an exclusive that will turn heads again.
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Roberts
Member
I think they are doing double fine, considering the state they were only a half a decade ago. My only hope is that they don't start imitating the other two, because I like their direction better.
I'm still trying to figure out what attracts me to xbox games more so than Ps or Nintendo, because let's be honest, Sony games have higher polish, production value and Nintendo perfectly understands what to feed its audience, but (it might sound ridiculous) I think xbox's main strength lies in humour. Wacky, silly, subtle, stupid, high-brow, absurd, satirical, you name it.
I mean, it goes back all the way to Halo - there is fundamentally nothing really funny about that game, but there was always an undercurrent of more subtle humour in it and they somehow managed to make grunts super silly and still have high dramatic stakes. Sea of Thieves is not exactly a gut busting game on paper, but it gives you all the tools to make your adventure not just fun or exciting, but also fucking hilarious - me and my friends have laughed until tears on more than one occasion.
If you look at their recent acquisitions, they are all very good at making sure the games can be funny, too. InXile, Bethesda and Obsidian have a history of infusing humour, broad, absurd and satirical, in their writing. Compulsion games are good at sardonic humour. Double Fine, duh! I'm pretty sure Fable is going to be hilarious.
The cool thing is that all these games can be dramatic or serious, too, but humour never takes a back seat.
I'm still trying to figure out what attracts me to xbox games more so than Ps or Nintendo, because let's be honest, Sony games have higher polish, production value and Nintendo perfectly understands what to feed its audience, but (it might sound ridiculous) I think xbox's main strength lies in humour. Wacky, silly, subtle, stupid, high-brow, absurd, satirical, you name it.
I mean, it goes back all the way to Halo - there is fundamentally nothing really funny about that game, but there was always an undercurrent of more subtle humour in it and they somehow managed to make grunts super silly and still have high dramatic stakes. Sea of Thieves is not exactly a gut busting game on paper, but it gives you all the tools to make your adventure not just fun or exciting, but also fucking hilarious - me and my friends have laughed until tears on more than one occasion.
If you look at their recent acquisitions, they are all very good at making sure the games can be funny, too. InXile, Bethesda and Obsidian have a history of infusing humour, broad, absurd and satirical, in their writing. Compulsion games are good at sardonic humour. Double Fine, duh! I'm pretty sure Fable is going to be hilarious.
The cool thing is that all these games can be dramatic or serious, too, but humour never takes a back seat.
feynoob
Banned
Baby game, from already a purchased studio, to actual new ip, which done in 2018 since gears and forza.
So far, only avowed is qualified. Starfield was along time.
By the end of this gen, that might change hopefully.
MS is not an entertainment company. It tried to be but it was too caught up in the numbers and unable to create new long lasting IP. Now it is buying the studios who are the creatives and the IPs from others with new studios and keeping a hands off approach. That may work but it's a double edged sword and they have timing issues.
My biggest issue with Microsoft is that I consistently see them obtain established IPs, and then slowly (or not so slowly... Halo 4 was garbage, and Halo 5 was worse, and those were the first two Halo games after Bungie left) run them into the ground. Is that changing? Possibly. I really hope they do well by Fable. I hope that they don't squeeze the life out of Bethesda. At this point I don't know if Microsoft is damaged beyond repair due to the people in charge being out of touch with their studios, or if they're actually working on turning things around. I hope it's the latter, but I wish they would stop buying studios and instead invest in their current studios and IPs to do something great with what they already have.
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Josemayuste
Member
I think they are doing double fine, considering the state they were only a half a decade ago. My only hope is that they don't start imitating the other two, because I like their direction better.
I'm still trying to figure out what attracts me to xbox games more so than Ps or Nintendo, because let's be honest, Sony games have higher polish, production value and Nintendo perfectly understands what to feed its audience, but (it might sound ridiculous) I think xbox's main strength lies in humour. Wacky, silly, subtle, stupid, high-brow, absurd, satirical, you name it.
I mean, it goes back all the way to Halo - there is fundamentally nothing really funny about that game, but there was always an undercurrent of more subtle humour in it and they somehow managed to make grunts super silly and still have high dramatic stakes. Sea of Thieves is not exactly a gut busting game on paper, but it gives you all the tools to make your adventure not just fun or exciting, but also fucking hilarious - me and my friends have laughed until tears on more than one occasion.
If you look at their recent acquisitions, they are all very good at making sure the games can be funny, too. InXile, Bethesda and Obsidian have a history of infusing humour, broad, absurd and satirical, in their writing. Compulsion games are good at sardonic humour. Double Fine, duh! I'm pretty sure Fable is going to be hilarious.
The cool thing is that all these games can be dramatic or serious, too, but humour never takes a back seat.
I agree, I think the same.
feynoob
Banned
This is pretty much what they need 100%.
anthony2690
Member
Just start releasing their upcoming game & ADVERTISE them better.
When a playstation game comes out, in the UK atleast, they are advertised EVERYWHERE, buses, billboards, non stop on YouTube/TV adverts etc.
As pointed out by Klobrille user on twitter even the Xbox twitter teams do a very poor job off adverting/highlighting upcoming first party titles too.
I do think this an area that Sony is way ahead of Microsoft on.
Maybe it is different outside the UK though, but it feels like the only YouTube adverts for Xbox I see, is from Smyth's Toys oddly.
When a playstation game comes out, in the UK atleast, they are advertised EVERYWHERE, buses, billboards, non stop on YouTube/TV adverts etc.
As pointed out by Klobrille user on twitter even the Xbox twitter teams do a very poor job off adverting/highlighting upcoming first party titles too.
I do think this an area that Sony is way ahead of Microsoft on.
Maybe it is different outside the UK though, but it feels like the only YouTube adverts for Xbox I see, is from Smyth's Toys oddly.
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vaibhavpisal
Member
So you basically want them to go back in time and set up studios so they can have new ips right now?
We will get new ips from purchased studios only. That's all you are going to get.
And which is baby game? Grounded and Sea of Thieves are hardcore. If you are not in mindset, you will give up in a couple of days. They have zero hand holding or spoon feeding.
ANIMAL1975
Member
I think they already trying to fix that. They bought bethesda but no one told them that they only release games from ten to ten years, now they going for Activision that do it annually.
feynoob
Banned
That is not what I mean.
Bethesda new IP were already in the work during the purchase. MS has nothing to do with those IPs.
Grounded is from small devs, AA game. While sea of theives is AAA game.
GymWolf
Member
They are already successful, but from a final user point of view, with all the studios they have now they need to guarantee a constant release of good to great game with at least a goty contender every year, it is now or never.
Starting from 2023-2024 i expect at least a big game every 3 months or so, they have enough studios to really do that and some more.
Also get rid of 343 and the coalition or use them for other projects, they are clearly not the right people for your biggest 2 franchises, give halo to ID and gears to someone who is not scared to do an overhaul for the brand, it worked with gow in 2018, it is gonna work with another gow aswell (if the team is talented)
Starting from 2023-2024 i expect at least a big game every 3 months or so, they have enough studios to really do that and some more.
Also get rid of 343 and the coalition or use them for other projects, they are clearly not the right people for your biggest 2 franchises, give halo to ID and gears to someone who is not scared to do an overhaul for the brand, it worked with gow in 2018, it is gonna work with another gow aswell (if the team is talented)
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Tiago Rodrigues
Member
Honestly? They need a well-oiled machine with their developers.
Buying studios and leave them alone isn't all that great. They need to center all of those operations somehow. All Playstation studios communicate with each other, share technologies, etc and it shows. Insomniac did 40fps in a game, everyone else followed. Naughty Dog did all those Accessibility feats for TLOU2, everyone followed. Hell part of the coding for TLOU2 horse mechanics came from Ghost of Tsushima's own horse. Sounds like a stupid random example but this matters when you have god knows how many studios. They always learn from each other and MS isn't taking advantage of this.
Buying studios and leaving them run free individually isn't good. You just have to check what that has done to Halo (or Fable...or Gears). Or how Rare "died" after MS acquired them, only to release a single successful IP in 20 years.
They should also coordinate their game releases better. A year and half with nothing to show is embarrassing. Sony with a lot less studios never had this issue. I don't even think this happened during the PS4 early days.
More deals with outside developers could help them. They don't have their own Genshin Impact, Final Fantasy XIV, or a decent indie team that hunts projects like SiFu or Stray etc.
Buying studios and leave them alone isn't all that great. They need to center all of those operations somehow. All Playstation studios communicate with each other, share technologies, etc and it shows. Insomniac did 40fps in a game, everyone else followed. Naughty Dog did all those Accessibility feats for TLOU2, everyone followed. Hell part of the coding for TLOU2 horse mechanics came from Ghost of Tsushima's own horse. Sounds like a stupid random example but this matters when you have god knows how many studios. They always learn from each other and MS isn't taking advantage of this.
Buying studios and leaving them run free individually isn't good. You just have to check what that has done to Halo (or Fable...or Gears). Or how Rare "died" after MS acquired them, only to release a single successful IP in 20 years.
They should also coordinate their game releases better. A year and half with nothing to show is embarrassing. Sony with a lot less studios never had this issue. I don't even think this happened during the PS4 early days.
More deals with outside developers could help them. They don't have their own Genshin Impact, Final Fantasy XIV, or a decent indie team that hunts projects like SiFu or Stray etc.
Robb
Gold Member
A couple of years ago I’d have said they needed more/better first party studios. At this point I’d say all they need is time.
They purchased Zenimax in 2021 and it seems games are starting to trickle out in 2023. They’re also getting ActiBlizz in 2023 so maybe we can expect to see a stable first party output from them in 2025/26.
They purchased Zenimax in 2021 and it seems games are starting to trickle out in 2023. They’re also getting ActiBlizz in 2023 so maybe we can expect to see a stable first party output from them in 2025/26.
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kuncol02
Banned
Good RPG game and not some RPG lite action game like Witcher 3 can be GOTY game, but what makes RPG games good is also what makes them niche, and because of that they have very low chances of winning any GOTY.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Iron sharpens iron, but Microsoft just doesn't have that.
They don't have a culture of cross-collaboration, at least not to the extent Sony does and it has to be built.
I think Microsoft wants to do this with the rebrand of MGS in 2019, but the way they're growing doesn't really allow for that. You'll never integrate Bethesda and Activision together. They're never going to collaborate together to the degree that Naughty Dog and Insomniac might. That's the advantage of buying smaller studios. Even Bungie is going to be easier to collab with than Activision Blizzard.
Microsoft can still have micro collab, but I doubt we see much macro collab to the degree games are really influencing each other like Sony's games are doing. And long term, that might actually be better. We'll see how Sony diversifies its portfolio now. I think they are still doing the right thing, you can diversify with small studios too.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
And you were so surprised you dropped your avatar pic...
I replied mostly because I was curious if you had intentionnally dropped it or if for some reason it doesn't show on my computer.
They need to restructure and change their corporate culture. That's tough.
Everyone who worked in an American company knows that hierarchy is everything. The top person is the one who makes decisions and the rest are just nodding their heads along even though they prob think it's stupid. And it prob is. There's no actual discussions only meetings to agree with the new shit the top person on that project came up with while drinking his latte in the shower. And they have a top person that changes their shit. And they have a top person who changes their shit. Etc. Etc. That's why you're seeing the creative part of the entertainment business in the US.
And when they show stuff, focus on gameplay. The first time they showed Perfect Dark was a person talking about this ecological world something, who cares? show us what will make this a different game. That's what will get people excited.
Everyone who worked in an American company knows that hierarchy is everything. The top person is the one who makes decisions and the rest are just nodding their heads along even though they prob think it's stupid. And it prob is. There's no actual discussions only meetings to agree with the new shit the top person on that project came up with while drinking his latte in the shower. And they have a top person that changes their shit. And they have a top person who changes their shit. Etc. Etc. That's why you're seeing the creative part of the entertainment business in the US.
And when they show stuff, focus on gameplay. The first time they showed Perfect Dark was a person talking about this ecological world something, who cares? show us what will make this a different game. That's what will get people excited.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
I like to dig on MS as much as the next guy, but they are certainly successful. They're just not quite as successful as the other guys. It's an extremely healthy video game market. All three are doing well. They do have some IP problems that the others don't have I would agree.
It already is.
Another thing is where it has to improve to make it even more successful and more competitive against PlayStation.
2-3 years ago we all would have said that MS didn't have enough studios. Today with 30+ projects in development and many of them new Ips simply what you need is TIME.
It may seem shocking, but it is reality. At a time when game development requires an average of 4-5 years, with a global pandemic and a war in Europe... it would be illogical to think that Studios acquired 2 years ago are ready to launch their games.
XBOX now has TOP quality Studios in its basket. It would be naive to think that they suddenly stopped being productive or that, as some here affirm (rather out of desire), all of them are going to fail while working with MS
.
I believe that 2023 will be the beginning of the escalation of launches and consistency. 2024 is, a priori, the year where the fruits should already be greater. At the end of 2025-2026 we will talk and analyze whether they were productive or not.
Another thing is where it has to improve to make it even more successful and more competitive against PlayStation.
2-3 years ago we all would have said that MS didn't have enough studios. Today with 30+ projects in development and many of them new Ips simply what you need is TIME.
It may seem shocking, but it is reality. At a time when game development requires an average of 4-5 years, with a global pandemic and a war in Europe... it would be illogical to think that Studios acquired 2 years ago are ready to launch their games.
XBOX now has TOP quality Studios in its basket. It would be naive to think that they suddenly stopped being productive or that, as some here affirm (rather out of desire), all of them are going to fail while working with MS
.I believe that 2023 will be the beginning of the escalation of launches and consistency. 2024 is, a priori, the year where the fruits should already be greater. At the end of 2025-2026 we will talk and analyze whether they were productive or not.
Team Andromeda
Member
Xbox already is and the fact that we get numpty threads like this, just shows the PlayStation gang are getting very rattled
But if I was to say things MS needs to do better at. It will be PR (its utter crap) and also be ready to give more IP's chance and try and grow them. Recore and Quantum Break were fantastic games (just had some issues) and where a sequel could fix the issues with the 1st games.
But if I was to say things MS needs to do better at. It will be PR (its utter crap) and also be ready to give more IP's chance and try and grow them. Recore and Quantum Break were fantastic games (just had some issues) and where a sequel could fix the issues with the 1st games.
Gavon West
Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
Jesus! After all the gains they've made since 2018, they STILL need to dig themselves out of the hole from the Xbox One era? Lol. Good lord..
Chukhopops
Member
Let’s see how Forspoken ranks even compared to temporary exclusive indies like Tunic. I’m personally not convinced it will be higher than 85, or that it will rank higher than Darktide.
You can’t fix cringy writing and boring gameplay just by adding budget and AAAAAs.
feynoob
Banned
Oh lord. A metacritic guy.
No one cares about the score. What matters is the scope of the game.
You can't compare AAA game to indie.
Gavon West
Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
T
No one cares for Halo or Gears anymore? Lol. These games aren't even the only two these days, and they still do quite well. Infinite is seeing a huge surge since the last drop just recently.
Tell me you're completely out of touch with the gaming community without telling me you're completely out touch with the gaming community - and reality - for that matter.
No one cares for Halo or Gears anymore? Lol. These games aren't even the only two these days, and they still do quite well. Infinite is seeing a huge surge since the last drop just recently.
Chukhopops
Member
Oh lord. An AAAAAsshole who thinks the only metric is budget and scope (whatever that means)
What matters is if the game is good and fun to play. You can make 5 million square miles of Ubisoft world building and it still won’t be as good as Immortality, an FMV game.
Roberts
Member
Dude, what? If anything id@xbox has been doing an amazing job with this. Ori, Cuphead, Echo Generation, Death's Door, Tunic, Sable, Scorn, Nobody Saves the World, Somerville from the top of my head and tons of games that will come out soon.
feynoob
Banned
Sorry, but the world isn't only indie world.
Just because you enjoy it doesn't mean others should enjoy it like you.
People have different taste.
Chukhopops
Member
Finally you accept the existence of other preferences and opinions.
Sorry, but the world isn't only indie world.
Just because you enjoy it doesn't mean others should enjoy it like you.
People have different taste.
A learning opportunity…
owandeseis
Member
A big amount of first party studios and time, they already got the first thing, so it's all about time now, oh and also to market their big games more aggressively.
They need Starfield to release and to be a big hit, also to show Avowed and inXile's next RPG, a couple shooters from ID and Coalition for example, and some online or coop components on most of their games, with all this they should do great in USA and on PC market too.
They need Starfield to release and to be a big hit, also to show Avowed and inXile's next RPG, a couple shooters from ID and Coalition for example, and some online or coop components on most of their games, with all this they should do great in USA and on PC market too.
Banjo64
cumsessed
I could not disagree more.
feynoob
Banned
You are the one who is having hard time with that.
BbMajor7th
Member
MS and XBOX are already successful. The fact that they even have the footing in this industry they do, when players like Google and Amazon get laughed out of the room, says a great deal. It's probably one of the toughest media industries to break and one where the biggest global media players can still get humbled on the regular (Marvel's Avengers, for example). Will they ever be able to dethrone Sony and Nintendo? It's not impossible, but these two are the twin giants, with huge mindshare and a very well developed stable of products and IPs.
MS' and XBOX's biggest strategic shortfall is a principle misunderstanding of gaming's appeal. Spencer has gone hard on value for money, backwards compatibility, QOL and practical functions, but that's not what drives purchases in this industry. We like to pretend it is on forums, but if that was the case, Switch would have been a bigger flop than the WiiU. Purchases in this industry are still 90% emotive, and it's where PlayStation and Nintendo have the edge: their brands and their IPs have that strong emotive appeal and it's why they can get away with much more than MS.
It's why MS can say 'play our games for free, day-one on Game Pass' and Sony can say 'we're putting our prices up, soz' and the latter can still remain almost untouchably competitive. Nintendo is even worse, arguably, keeping their software prices sky high for years after release, making basic functions like save back-up needlessly convoluted and still absolutely slay with a game like BotW or Animal Crossing: New Horizons. It's a crude analogy, but it's like dating: reliability and functionality are nice to have, but what really counts is how they make you feel.
MS' and XBOX's biggest strategic shortfall is a principle misunderstanding of gaming's appeal. Spencer has gone hard on value for money, backwards compatibility, QOL and practical functions, but that's not what drives purchases in this industry. We like to pretend it is on forums, but if that was the case, Switch would have been a bigger flop than the WiiU. Purchases in this industry are still 90% emotive, and it's where PlayStation and Nintendo have the edge: their brands and their IPs have that strong emotive appeal and it's why they can get away with much more than MS.
It's why MS can say 'play our games for free, day-one on Game Pass' and Sony can say 'we're putting our prices up, soz' and the latter can still remain almost untouchably competitive. Nintendo is even worse, arguably, keeping their software prices sky high for years after release, making basic functions like save back-up needlessly convoluted and still absolutely slay with a game like BotW or Animal Crossing: New Horizons. It's a crude analogy, but it's like dating: reliability and functionality are nice to have, but what really counts is how they make you feel.
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