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[Topher]

Only 15% for now. More xbox game pass subscribers equals more revenue. More subscribers come with more and more games. Not rocket science.

Nope. Phil Spencer says he doesn't see it getting bigger than 15%.

 

[proandrad]

Buy their way into a monopoly. It’s the Microsoft way.

 

[TheDreadLord]

To be honest, I guess MS gaming will be considered successful when they finally drop the Xbox brand and perhaps leave the console market to become another third party that happens to offer a streaming service.

 

[DigitalScars]

They got to start putting out quality games that I can't get on other platforms. My xbox collects dust and I skipped last gen with them. Only reason I got this gen is because game pass is a good deal and let's me try a lot of multiple games I wouldn't normally risk dropping money on.

But with my ps5 or switch, they got the games I can't play elsewhere.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

better controllers (reliability sucks, theyre loud as crap, and even the retail boxes are so generic/low-effort)
significantly better menus (ugly, poorly organized, and laggy)
stop killing the studios you buy
cultivate an image beyond the mountain dew/dude-bro caricature your player-base has
better names (xbox one x hahah)
more unique hardware (e.g., have a dedicated physics chip or something; i dont know, go wild)
more & better exclusives
cool start up/boot sequence like the ps1

end of day though, it's the games.
it's always the games.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

What on earth makes you think they aren't? Seriously can somebody point me to a single statistic that screams MS is in deep shit with their Xbox division? Or you just assuming they are because they don't copy the business model of your favourite plastic box company?

 

[solidus12]

They already are successful; as a matter of fact, Microsoft just won publisher of the year for 2022:

 

[Rob_27]

Adult themed single player games.

 

[Stuart360]

They are already successful. Mega businesses like Microsoft dont invest 21 years in failing divisions, its just doesnt happen, regardless of what warriors say on forums.

To be MORE successful, they simply need to release more games, which they certainly should be doing in the second half of the gen.
Gamepass has been big for them though as its basicaly selling Xbox's at a time when they have barely any big name exclusives releasing.

Regardless of what people say, they should have a very successful second half of the gen imo.

EDIT. I assumed you meant Xbox btw, and not actually Microsoft lol.

 

[Pejo]

They already are successful; as a matter of fact, Microsoft just won publisher of the year for 2022:

CLIO awards? First I've heard of them.

 

[Topher]

CLIO awards? First I've heard of them.

It is an advertising award.

"Founded in 1959 to honor excellence in advertising, the Clio Awards today celebrates bold work that propels the advertising industry forward, inspires a competitive marketplace of ideas and fosters meaningful connections within the creative community."

The Clios

clios.com

 

[Gudji]

• Amazing blockbuster must play games coming out every year or so (filler games are okay but that's not why people buy 500€ consoles)
• Greater effort put into promoting the xbox brand worldwide... some people still don't know what an xbox is believe or not
• A new controller with up to date tech
• A new UI for Xbox series consoles
• Make a new PC app the current one is atrocious

Also never launch a brand new generation of consoles with the same experience as the previous one. Literally the only new thing they did was better hardware and quick resume since the experience continued to be the same if you came from xbox one, there wasn't that "Wow this is new" factor... fucking atrocious for the richest company in the world.

 

[In Cold Blood]

I'm curious about what your opinions are.

For me, I think it is strong IPs.
Microsoft seems to be buying up studios left and right, continuing to use existing IPs as already they have established franchises.
But the problem is continuity and growth.

Microsoft continued the Halo franchise after Bungie was done with it and The Coalition continued the Gears series.
The problem is the core game.
Halo 5 sucked, the story was a mess, and it was during a time when Xbox gave success to PS with the Xbox One announcement disaster.
Halo Infinite is a regression to what fans want and expect out of Halo and focused on monetization first.
We saw how that ended up and it reminds me of the failure of Evolve where they put the cart in front of the horse.
Gears 5 is meh and lacks the impact of the previous titles.

To circumvent this I think Microsoft needs to pull a Marvel Studios and grow its IPs.
I mean create a new fundamental IP and grow its potential.
Create games, not on the focus of monetization but creating a franchise, I'm talking about creating catching lightning in-a-bottle scenario and doing it often.
Create a solid foundation in which it can branch out to other things and finally interweave it.

Microsoft seems to have forgotten about the Banjo Kazooie franchise, which has so much potential for the 90s kids.
That potential is left out altogether.

Nintendo is strong with its diverse IPs, Mario, Legend of Zelda, Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Metroid, Splatoon, Pokemon, etc.
Each IP is focused on a particular and specific genre and they focus on mastering that genre with its IP.
I feel that Xbox can do the same.
When people associate with Xbox there is often the Halo, Gears, and Forza.
Halo = First Person Shooter.
Gears = Third-Person Shooter.
Forza = Racing.

Banjo Kazooie can have the 3D Platformer Adventure Return.
Also if Microsoft bought SEGA there could be potential with it an ensemble of characters and gameplay variety in a Marvel Avengers or Gotham Knights approach, but done properly.

Microsoft also needs to fix the scheduling of these games where it is like Nintendo to have first-party releases often. And that one giganctic game launch that sells in pertuality long after its release like Skyrim, GTA V, etc where its release is GOTY material and talked and ported long after its launch.
Microsoft needs variety. in its genres especially and seems to be relying too much of third party studios to achieve this but they aren't as successful as they feel AA rather than AAA material compared to Sony.
People want to make use of their expensive OLED TVs and home theatre setups.

What game is there available for Xbox that makes full potential and use of the console to its absolute limit and is that game fun to play.
I remember Halo 3 and Reach being that game for the Xbox 360. There was a community for it and the random stranger talk before the match started was the best. Long have those gaming memories have passed and my social gaming has become quite quiet and isolated to be honest.

TL;DR:
Xbox needs stronger IPs that focus on specific genres.
Xbox needs more iconic mascots to represent such genres. Bring back Banjo Kazooie to its glory.
Xbox needs better video game scheduling releases.
Xbox needs to release games that are GOTY material.
Xbox needs better production value games that highlight the potential of the Xbox rather than rely on third parties for that because that is also available on PS.
Xbox needs characters that you can make an emotional and deep connection to in a trailer (Like Zelda crying in that BOTW trailer, or that emotion that you felt when you were watching CyberPunk EdgeRunners Netflix show). People respond to such strong characters and make them an IP done correctly. No current Xbox character has done that for me. I don't have any emotional connection with these characters and they feel more like puppet avatars than characters that I can relate to. PS has the Joel and Ellie relationship in the Last of Us. PS has Spider-man that evokes and carries on those memories of the Spider-Man movies that trigger that reminder.
Xbox needs experiences that they can find only on Xbox and PC. Xbox does backwards compatibility excellent, Xbox does accessibility better than others, Xbox has cross-save better than others, etc.

.
You know what I find funny, you never hear people say that Polyphony should do something new instead of another Gran Turismo game. It's always that Microsoft just can't keep putting out Forza. Well, Microsoft did something new with Forza and created Forza Horizon, an open world arcade style racing game. A game that is now the default best racing genre alive today.
Turn 10 is redoing Forza from the ground up. New engine, new capabilities, new direction.
Playground ground sets up a second team to do Fable, one of those great IPs Microsoft hasn't used for years.
Meanwhile GT is as stale as ever, takes twice as long than Forza to develop and has fallen behind the Forza franchise, yet its Microsoft that needs to change up Forza.
Same goes for Halo and Gears.
Both are legendary IPs and loved by Xbox players. Now we have the Coalition currently working on a new IP, so they arnt relying on just Gears.

You know you just can't keep everyone happy. MS gets knocked because it's a Shooter and racing box. Then you hear Sony fans complaining that Sony killed off Drive Club and they don't have a Shooter anymore and need to do another SOCOM or Resistance.

The only thing for certain, people gonna bitch.

 

[Isa]

I think MS is doing well enough, they've gotten my friends and I to main Series consoles so far, whereas we were PS4 mainly last gen. They could definitely use more passionate blood in the gaming division, less corpo culture. Incentivize the talent to join and stay, try to purge the weird shit from their own studios(343). Also keep investing heavily in Asian support as its one of the biggest stumbling blocks when a consumer compares value across each platform. They are improving greatly but there is still a lot of work to do. Invest in exclusives, it works, it sells and offers a compelling reason for the average consumer to pick up the console in the first place.

I wish they'd stop being complacent with 3rd and multiplat streaming and go for the jugular. Their resources are immense, and with the right talent and passion could offer up the best games anywhere but alas they continue to piss that away. GaaS, Streaming and MTX dreams seem to fuel their endgame. They would also do well to invest in new studios and try to cultivate talent for the future and build brand recognition beyond the big three(Halo, Gears, Forza). I know those games are apart of their identity. But they need a more expanded and refreshing portfolio. Let those rest for a while. I am excited for the future, Starfield is looking excellent and I love InExile and most of what Bethesda is doing. If I was in charge there I'd greatly expand the budget of their vast swathe of devs and let them create games they normally couldn't do to limited resources. Make it a culture where instead of "what do we have to cut" turn into a "what else would be cool to add?" like the old days. Also whip their studios notorious for stuggling into shape. I'd say its a case of MS being to caught up in certain western cultures that lack a hardass willing to implement strict expectations, adhere to schedules, offend snowflakes and instill discipline. Get your shit together man or you'll always be last if you don't try to improve. But that takes a willingness to self reflect, identify weakness and attempt alternatives.

 

[Umbasaborne]

Hard disagree. Trying to mimic Sony would only hinder the progress they've all ready made. Leave Sony to Sony. Let Xbox continue what they're doing. And Halo Infinite is a legit banger. Never understood the hate towards it, aside from slow content drops.

Halo infinite launched missing much of the standard content that typically comes in a halo game, and it took them almost a year to finally add it back in. The campaign is a mess that ignores the story they spent years setting up in halo 4, and 5. On top of that it has way less variety than any halo game before it, consisting only of metal corridor, and grassy field. Because the development for this game was so messy they had to cut most of the other environments planned for it. Seriously, go back and watch the first halo infinite trailer. None of of the variety shown in that trailer is present in the final product.



Its worth sharing this trailer that is still on the official halo youtube channel. This seems like a much more interesting game than the unfinished mess we got. They should really remove this trailer because it is false advertising at this point. Smoke and mirrors bs, its why im skeptical of any xbox game announced with a cg or “in engine” trailer.

 

[iQuasarLV]

Quality over quantity.

 

[PhaseJump]

Have you seen/used the Windows Store? It’s a downgrade.

The joke was that Microsoft would improve it's success if they paid an absurd amount to hire Gaben again, and buy Steam.
I included a planetary explosion gif to reflect the absurdity and overall impact of such an event.


You asked why I would want Steam to get worse. - I replied that I wouldn't.

Now you ask me if I have ever used the Windows store, and that it's a downgrade compared to Steam? - My brother in Christ. That is the most obvious statement possible, and I don't know why you are even making it.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

That's a presumptive title.

That's like saying, "What does Phil Spencer need to do to stop being a big fat liar?"

 

[Kamina]

They are on a good road already. If the start releasing exclusives on a regular basis again they will grow and sell
boatloads of gamepass.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Partnership with SEGA.
No more Xbox.
Next console is the Dreamcast 2 (Philcast™)
Sonic, Yakuza, Atlus games as exclusive titles.

 

[DragonNCM]

 

[rofif]

Bring back blades and something more bold... more fun system. The fucking rectangle is just a fingerprint magnet monolith. At least make it white!
And of course games... not easy solution. On 360, I loved Gears trilogy and all exclusives they had... at the same time I missed on killzone and uncharted which I played later.

idk. xbox brand currently feels cold and distant. That 360 fun spark is long gone and I am not sure how to bring it back.

 

[Topher]

.
You know what I find funny, you never hear people say that Polyphony should do something new instead of another Gran Turismo game. It's always that Microsoft just can't keep putting out Forza. Well, Microsoft did something new with Forza and created Forza Horizon, an open world arcade style racing game. A game that is now the default best racing genre alive today.
Turn 10 is redoing Forza from the ground up. New engine, new capabilities, new direction.
Playground ground sets up a second team to do Fable, one of those great IPs Microsoft hasn't used for years.
Meanwhile GT is as stale as ever, takes twice as long than Forza to develop and has fallen behind the Forza franchise, yet its Microsoft that needs to change up Forza.
Same goes for Halo and Gears.
Both are legendary IPs and loved by Xbox players. Now we have the Coalition currently working on a new IP, so they arnt relying on just Gears.

You know you just can't keep everyone happy. MS gets knocked because it's a Shooter and racing box. Then you hear Sony fans complaining that Sony killed off Drive Club and they don't have a Shooter anymore and need to do another SOCOM or Resistance.

The only thing for certain, people gonna bitch.

Why even bring Sony into this? Sony hasn't had a problem delivering games from their first party studios. Microsoft has. So there isn't any pressure on Polyphony to reinvent itself because they don't need to. And Microsoft knows this:

"“First, just to bring it up, hats off to Sony and their studio system and the leaders that they’ve got there, I mean it’s fantastic,” he said. “You can’t argue with the quality and the craft and the games that they’ve delivered, that they’re working on now and the stuff that we’ve seen so far, so just kudos and hats off to them."

Xbox says it wants to make more PlayStation-style blockbuster games | VGC

“Making sure we’ve got those kinds of games for our fans is important for us…

www.videogameschronicle.com

 

[Manuscript Replica]

I'm curious about what your opinions are.

For me, I think it is strong IPs.
Microsoft seems to be buying up studios left and right, continuing to use existing IPs as already they have established franchises.
But the problem is continuity and growth.

Microsoft continued the Halo franchise after Bungie was done with it and The Coalition continued the Gears series.
The problem is the core game.
Halo 5 sucked, the story was a mess, and it was during a time when Xbox gave success to PS with the Xbox One announcement disaster.
Halo Infinite is a regression to what fans want and expect out of Halo and focused on monetization first.
We saw how that ended up and it reminds me of the failure of Evolve where they put the cart in front of the horse.
Gears 5 is meh and lacks the impact of the previous titles.

To circumvent this I think Microsoft needs to pull a Marvel Studios and grow its IPs.
I mean create a new fundamental IP and grow its potential.
Create games, not on the focus of monetization but creating a franchise, I'm talking about creating catching lightning in-a-bottle scenario and doing it often.
Create a solid foundation in which it can branch out to other things and finally interweave it.

Microsoft seems to have forgotten about the Banjo Kazooie franchise, which has so much potential for the 90s kids.
That potential is left out altogether.

Nintendo is strong with its diverse IPs, Mario, Legend of Zelda, Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Metroid, Splatoon, Pokemon, etc.
Each IP is focused on a particular and specific genre and they focus on mastering that genre with its IP.
I feel that Xbox can do the same.
When people associate with Xbox there is often the Halo, Gears, and Forza.
Halo = First Person Shooter.
Gears = Third-Person Shooter.
Forza = Racing.

Banjo Kazooie can have the 3D Platformer Adventure Return.
Also if Microsoft bought SEGA there could be potential with it an ensemble of characters and gameplay variety in a Marvel Avengers or Gotham Knights approach, but done properly.

Microsoft also needs to fix the scheduling of these games where it is like Nintendo to have first-party releases often. And that one giganctic game launch that sells in pertuality long after its release like Skyrim, GTA V, etc where its release is GOTY material and talked and ported long after its launch.
Microsoft needs variety. in its genres especially and seems to be relying too much of third party studios to achieve this but they aren't as successful as they feel AA rather than AAA material compared to Sony.
People want to make use of their expensive OLED TVs and home theatre setups.

What game is there available for Xbox that makes full potential and use of the console to its absolute limit and is that game fun to play.
I remember Halo 3 and Reach being that game for the Xbox 360. There was a community for it and the random stranger talk before the match started was the best. Long have those gaming memories have passed and my social gaming has become quite quiet and isolated to be honest.

TL;DR:
Xbox needs stronger IPs that focus on specific genres.
Xbox needs more iconic mascots to represent such genres. Bring back Banjo Kazooie to its glory.
Xbox needs better video game scheduling releases.
Xbox needs to release games that are GOTY material.
Xbox needs better production value games that highlight the potential of the Xbox rather than rely on third parties for that because that is also available on PS.
Xbox needs characters that you can make an emotional and deep connection to in a trailer (Like Zelda crying in that BOTW trailer, or that emotion that you felt when you were watching CyberPunk EdgeRunners Netflix show). People respond to such strong characters and make them an IP done correctly. No current Xbox character has done that for me. I don't have any emotional connection with these characters and they feel more like puppet avatars than characters that I can relate to. PS has the Joel and Ellie relationship in the Last of Us. PS has Spider-man that evokes and carries on those memories of the Spider-Man movies that trigger that reminder.
Xbox needs experiences that they can find only on Xbox and PC. Xbox does backwards compatibility excellent, Xbox does accessibility better than others, Xbox has cross-save better than others, etc.

Microsoft is buying Sega on Wednesday, haven’t you heard?

 

[Laptop1991]

They have always made money but also have a lot of failures too, Browser, Zune, Windows Phone and still PC gaming as yet, and their new Operating System's are too controlled as well, with a lot of updates that cause trouble with gaming as if they don't really care,

Deliver the games, gamer's want and that would be a success, they are becoming the only place i can get get my games i like from as they are buying a lot of 3rd party publishers up, although until it changes i still see them as a control and profit orientated business more than anything else.

 

[DarkMage619]

Why even bring Sony into this? Sony hasn't had a problem delivering games from their first party studios. Microsoft has. So there isn't any pressure on Polyphony to reinvent itself because they don't need to. And Microsoft knows this:

"“First, just to bring it up, hats off to Sony and their studio system and the leaders that they’ve got there, I mean it’s fantastic,” he said. “You can’t argue with the quality and the craft and the games that they’ve delivered, that they’re working on now and the stuff that we’ve seen so far, so just kudos and hats off to them."

Xbox says it wants to make more PlayStation-style blockbuster games | VGC

“Making sure we’ve got those kinds of games for our fans is important for us…

www.videogameschronicle.com

People brought up in this very thread how MS should be more like Sony. You also brought up a quote about Sony as well. MS tried to copy Sony with their retail model and it did not work out. It is OK for each of these platforms to do what works best for them and none of them need to be like the other. Diversity of strategy is OK.

Polyphony may not need to reinvent themselves but I'm certain neither does Turn 10 or Playground games either. It would have been great if some of Xbox’s games this year were not delayed but it happens. Even Sony's blockbusters this year were all delayed from last year. It doesn't mean Xbox needs to be a copy of any of the other platforms out there. I'm positive it would be met with complaints even if they did.

 

[Topher]

People brought up in this very thread how MS should be more like Sony. You also brought up a quote about Sony as well. MS tried to copy Sony with their retail model and it did not work out. It is OK for each of these platforms to do what works best for them and none of them need to be like the other. Diversity of strategy is OK.

Polyphony may not need to reinvent themselves but I'm certain neither does Turn 10 or Playground games either. It would have been great if some of Xbox’s games this year were not delayed but it happens. Even Sony's blockbusters this year were all delayed from last year. It doesn't mean Xbox needs to be a copy of any of the other platforms out there. I'm positive it would be met with complaints even if they did.

Fair play, I guess, as far as bringing Sony into it. I agree with you, though, that Turn 10 and Playground do not need to reinvent themselves. They both make stellar games.

 

[buenoblue]

Yeah just use your billions to make great games. Simple

 

[SmokedMeat]

The joke was that Microsoft would improve it's success if they paid an absurd amount to hire Gaben again, and buy Steam.
I included a planetary explosion gif to reflect the absurdity and overall impact of such an event.


You asked why I would want Steam to get worse. - I replied that I wouldn't.

Now you ask me if I have ever used the Windows store, and that it's a downgrade compared to Steam? - My brother in Christ. That is the most obvious statement possible, and I don't know why you are even making it.

Sorry, the joke went right over my head. Sometimes my sarcasm meter doesn’t work well lol

 

[DenchDeckard]

Xbox is already successful, just not as successful as the market leader but still very successful.

Saying that, they have everything right but release schedule. They need to get a constant drip of high quality content which they already have but they also need those 2 to 3 big AAA bangers once a year and they are pretty much set.

Once they have that and whatever success they see in console sales is literally their peak ability to perform in the console space and they should focus more on the PC side of things imo.

 

[In Cold Blood]

Why even bring Sony into this? Sony hasn't had a problem delivering games from their first party studios. Microsoft has. So there isn't any pressure on Polyphony to reinvent itself because they don't need to. And Microsoft knows this:

"“First, just to bring it up, hats off to Sony and their studio system and the leaders that they’ve got there, I mean it’s fantastic,” he said. “You can’t argue with the quality and the craft and the games that they’ve delivered, that they’re working on now and the stuff that we’ve seen so far, so just kudos and hats off to them."

Xbox says it wants to make more PlayStation-style blockbuster games | VGC

“Making sure we’ve got those kinds of games for our fans is important for us…

www.videogameschronicle.com

Because Sony are the current market leader, and people are always comparing Microsoft to Sony, Xbox to Playstation and MS first party to Sony first party. Let's not be naive here.

During the PS3 era, alot of studios hated the PS3. The multiplatform games sucked on PS3 compared to the 360.
To counter this Sony got their studios to show all the other third party studios what could be possible on it.
They set up their ICE team that spent tons on time working out ways to code the PS3 as efficiently as possible. Now as I said in the thread I created, it was this work that made the Sony studios what they are today.
They are industry leading for quality output on a consistent basis.
Now this doesn't account for all their studios.
Naughty Dog, Guerilla Games, SSM, Insomniac, Sucker Punch and possibly still Polyphony.

As the industry leader Sony doesn't face the same criticism as Microsoft does, even though they are doing the same thing.
SSM has done God Of War for nearly 20 years.
Polyphony has done the same IP since the PS1.
Naughty Dog, Guerilla, Sucker Punch have done 2 different IPs each over the last 15 years.
They have holes in their first party studios such as Shooters and RPGs, yet you hear 10 times as many people talk about how MS needs to have an Action Adventure games like Sony have.

You won't hear me criticise Sony's first party, you will only hear me praise them.
Microsoft is now in a very different position than they were 10 years ago, and has a different structure and strength than Sony does. (Do you really want them to be exactly the same?)
Microsoft have more AAA studios than Sony does now. They have more game diversity. They have the Shooter and WRPG genres sewn up.
They are headed in the right direction, and when Activision comes through its going to be a very different landscape.

Unlike Sega, MS is in no fear of having to exit the hardware business. They have all the money in the world.
Build it and they will come.
Once these first party games start dropping every three months on Xbox, it will drive sales of the Xbox and Gamepass.
One will follow the other. Content is king.

So, yeah, Microsoft isn't in any dire need.

 

[Topher]

As the industry leader Sony doesn't face the same criticism as Microsoft does, even though they are doing the same thing.

Not going through all that because most of it is irrelevant. Cutting to the point. No, Sony doesn't do the same thing. The difference is consistency. Sony consistently releases highly rated games. Microsoft does not. This year is an example of something that has been going on for quite some time. Phil Spencer has acknowledged their insufficient output on many occasions. So yeah, Microsoft gets more criticism from Sony because they deserve it. This isn't some new revelation.

Having said all that, I don't think the answer was ever for Turn 10 to move on from Forza. That wasn't even the problem. The problem was that Forza was the only game people could count on to be there. Everything else, except maybe Gears, was a big question mark. Thankfully, MS added more studios to help improve their horrible first party output.

So, yeah, Microsoft isn't in any dire need.

Uh...yeah, they are. They are in dire need to make sure Starfield and Redfall release next year on schedule.

 

[intbal]

Bake sale

 

[Trazyn the Infinite]

Not going through all that because most of it is irrelevant. Cutting to the point. No, Sony doesn't do the same thing. The difference is consistency. Sony consistently releases highly rated games. Microsoft does not. This year is an example of something that has been going on for quite some time. Phil Spencer has acknowledged their insufficient output on many occasions. So yeah, Microsoft gets more criticism from Sony because they deserve it. This isn't some new revelation.

Having said all that, I don't think the answer was ever for Turn 10 to move on from Forza. That wasn't even the problem. The problem was that Forza was the only game people could count on to be there. Everything else, except maybe Gears, was a big question mark. Thankfully, MS added more studios to help improve their horrible first party output.



Uh...yeah, they are. They are in dire need to make sure Starfield and Redfall release next year on schedule.

This. And the mindless warriors pushing that people don’t buy Xbox for strong single player games - they absolutely did and many still would buy an Xbox for more. People are sick of the half finished MP focused GAAS titles that the company continues to pump out filled with MTX. There is a reason why they are seemingly stuck in last place - they stopped creating what people want to see. They stopped having the same consistency they had during the original and first half of the 360. They chased trends and tried to routinely screw over their customers/player base (look at the Xbone announcements and the recent DRM problems returning).

I would rather see Xbox succeed than continue to have their head up their own ass.

 

[In Cold Blood]

Not going through all that because most of it is irrelevant. Cutting to the point. No, Sony doesn't do the same thing. The difference is consistency. Sony consistently releases highly rated games. Microsoft does not. This year is an example of something that has been going on for quite some time. Phil Spencer has acknowledged their insufficient output on many occasions. So yeah, Microsoft gets more criticism from Sony because they deserve it. This isn't some new revelation.

Having said all that, I don't think the answer was ever for Turn 10 to move on from Forza. That wasn't even the problem. The problem was that Forza was the only game people could count on to be there. Everything else, except maybe Gears, was a big question mark. Thankfully, MS added more studios to help improve their horrible first party output.



Uh...yeah, they are. They are in dire need to make sure Starfield and Redfall release next year on schedule.

2022 for Microsoft was a bad year release wise. You would have to be pretty simple to think otherwise.
But we do have short memories.
2021 Microsoft was the best publisher for that year. Deathloop, Forza Horizon 5, Halo Infinate and Psychonauts 2.
2023 looks like it is going to be very good, and could be massive.
Redfall, Starfield and Forza Motorsport at a minimum. All of them Next Gen only. Redfall is a Unreal Engine 5 game, Starfield is the biggest new franchise ever created by Bethesda and Forza is going to be on the new Forzatech engine which is taking full effect of all the Direct 12 U feature sets, which is going to be really interesting to see, and the comparison videos between that and GT7 are going to be, well, fun to say the least.

But you are totally wrong about Microsoft being in a dire situation.
They are doing all the right things they need to. They have addressed every single weakness of the Xbox One era.
1. The XSX is the most powerful console, which is a turn around from the cluster fuck that was the Xbox One.
2. They only had 4 first party studios. Now they have 24 studios with around 30 teams. When the Activision buy out drops they will have 37 studios, and the largest single collection of gaming IP.
Their total number of employees will be around 15,000.
I mean, it's a safe bet to say they addressed their lack of first party studios.
3. Gamepass. It is what it is.
4. Series S makes it easy for people to get into the next gen if they don't have the money or if they have a PS and want to play Xbox games. It's cheaper than buying a big PC rig, and even if they get Gamepass on PC, it feeds MS.

Microsoft isn't going anywhere. They do things for the long haul. They are looking at what Xbox is going to be in 5 or 10 years time.

 

[Topher]

2022 for Microsoft was a bad year release wise. You would have to be pretty simple to think otherwise.
But we do have short memories.
2021 Microsoft was the best publisher for that year. Deathloop, Forza Horizon 5, Halo Infinate and Psychonauts 2.
2023 looks like it is going to be very good, and could be massive.
Redfall, Starfield and Forza Motorsport at a minimum. All of them Next Gen only. Redfall is a Unreal Engine 5 game, Starfield is the biggest new franchise ever created by Bethesda and Forza is going to be on the new Forzatech engine which is taking full effect of all the Direct 12 U feature sets, which is going to be really interesting to see, and the comparison videos between that and GT7 are going to be, well, fun to say the least.

But you are totally wrong about Microsoft being in a dire situation.
They are doing all the right things they need to. They have addressed every single weakness of the Xbox One era.
1. The XSX is the most powerful console, which is a turn around from the cluster fuck that was the Xbox One.
2. They only had 4 first party studios. Now they have 24 studios with around 30 teams. When the Activision buy out drops they will have 37 studios, and the largest single collection of gaming IP.
Their total number of employees will be around 15,000.
I mean, it's a safe bet to say they addressed their lack of first party studios.
3. Gamepass. It is what it is.
4. Series S makes it easy for people to get into the next gen if they don't have the money or if they have a PS and want to play Xbox games. It's cheaper than buying a big PC rig, and even if they get Gamepass on PC, it feeds MS.

Microsoft isn't going anywhere. They do things for the long haul. They are looking at what Xbox is going to be in 5 or 10 years time.

I'm not saying MS is in danger of "going anywhere". Far from it. But we were supposed to get Starfield in 2022 "at a minimum". The dire situation is losing a lot of good will that has been be built up with Xbox Series. A hell of a lot Xbox gamers bought consoles for these games and an entire calendar year without a AAA release is not good. So yeah, MS addressed the lack of first party studios but that doesn't mean a thing if they are not delivering on games. And let's not forget that MS studio building/buying spree started 4 years ago, not with Bethesda. If comparison videos between racing games is what you are looking forward to then I think we simply have different perspectives on what to expect from first party. In either case, none of these issues were are talking about is applicable to Sony so if you are still wondering why Sony doesn't get the same criticism then that is your answer.

This. And the mindless warriors pushing that people don’t buy Xbox for strong single player games - they absolutely did and many still would buy an Xbox for more. People are sick of the half finished MP focused GAAS titles that the company continues to pump out filled with MTX. There is a reason why they are seemingly stuck in last place - they stopped creating what people want to see. They stopped having the same consistency they had during the original and first half of the 360. They chased trends and tried to routinely screw over their customers/player base (look at the Xbone announcements and the recent DRM problems returning).

I would rather see Xbox succeed than continue to have their head up their own ass.

Exactly. And I don't think anyone is doing themselves any favors whitewashing Xbox first party output with studio acquisition. Those purchases are a win for Microsoft, but there is a saying "wins hides sins" and Microsoft still has a lot of "sins" when it comes to first party output that they need to atone for (metaphorically speaking).

 

[Trazyn the Infinite]

I'm not saying MS is in danger of "going anywhere". Far from it. But we were supposed to get Starfield in 2022 "at a minimum". The dire situation is losing a lot of good will that has been be built up with Xbox Series. A hell of a lot Xbox gamers bought consoles for these games and an entire calendar year without a AAA release is not good. So yeah, MS addressed the lack of first party studios but that doesn't mean a thing if they are not delivering on games. And let's not forget that MS studio building/buying spree started 4 years ago, not with Bethesda. If comparison videos between racing games is what you are looking forward to then I think we simply have different perspectives on what to expect from first party. In either case, none of these issues were are talking about is applicable to Sony so if you are still wondering why Sony doesn't get the same criticism then that is your answer.



Exactly. And I don't think anyone is doing themselves any favors whitewashing Xbox first party output with studio acquisition. Those purchases are a win for Microsoft, but there is a saying "wins hides sins" and Microsoft still has a lot of "sins" when it comes to first party output that they need to atone for (metaphorically speaking).

The sad thing is, we still haven’t seen anything of note from these acquisitions. Unless you count games that were already well in development before the buyout as being wholly unique Xbox owned properties now. We won’t see anything from these for *years*.

 

[Doctor Hades]

They have nailed it in the hardware department, now they just need some good, new and strong IPs to push them forward. They can’t rely on Halo to sell hardware these days and will need more to drag new people in.

This isn’t going to happen overnight but it needs to happen in the next year or two. There’s a lot of stuff in development already and now we need to start seeing gameplay.

Halo is, unfortunately, a pale shadow of what it used to be when Bungie made the games and, for me, I can tell in the overall quality of the games since 343 took over.

Halo 4 and 5 were okay but felt derivative. However, 343 messed up the Master Chief Collection and that took them YEARS to fix and Halo Infinite was quite rightly ridiculed for its wonky unveiling and, ultimately, released a year later in an incomplete state with a boring campaign (sorry it might play well but the missions and level design feels generic, tired and repetitive). Not interested in the multiplayer at all, I only ever played Halo for its campaign. One year on and 343 still haven't fixed the broken v-sync/VRR issue in Halo Infinite. It is unbelievable really coming from a first-party studio. Maybe 343 are just not up to the task in which case Microsoft should cancel Halo and come up with a fresh new franchise to take its place and give 343 something they CAN manage...

 

[DevilHunterX0]

Buy Nintendo and Sony.

 

[DarkMage619]

Not going through all that because most of it is irrelevant. Cutting to the point. No, Sony doesn't do the same thing. The difference is consistency. Sony consistently releases highly rated games. Microsoft does not. This year is an example of something that has been going on for quite some time. Phil Spencer has acknowledged their insufficient output on many occasions. So yeah, Microsoft gets more criticism from Sony because they deserve it. This isn't some new revelation.

Having said all that, I don't think the answer was ever for Turn 10 to move on from Forza. That wasn't even the problem. The problem was that Forza was the only game people could count on to be there. Everything else, except maybe Gears, was a big question mark. Thankfully, MS added more studios to help improve their horrible first party output.

I thought every game MS delivered this generation was well rated. Halo Infinite, Forza Horizon 5, Pyschonauts 2, Grounded, Pentiment, Gears Tactics, Gears Hive Busters, Deathloop, and MS Flight Simulator all scored well. Ghostwire Toyko I think was the lowest scoring title. Plus all the 3rd party deals. You can argue that those games aren't your favorite genre but it is simply inaccurate to say MS does not put out high-quality games.

What they don't put out is lots of single player, 3rd person, story driven titles. Guess what? That has never been the type of games they release. They have lasted 20 years doing what they have done and they are still here and have made plenty of adjustments. More games are coming next year but there is little chance that they'll start copying Sony's game design choices any time soon. They have success doing things their own way.

The dire situation is losing a lot of good will that has been be built up with Xbox Series. A hell of a lot Xbox gamers bought consoles for these games and an entire calendar year without a AAA release is not good. So yeah, MS addressed the lack of first party studios but that doesn't mean a thing if they are not delivering on games. And let's not forget that MS studio building/buying spree started 4 years ago, not with Bethesda.

Do you have evidence of good will being lost with gamers? Last I checked Xbox Series consoles was selling better than their previous efforts. I thought Game pass was still gaining subs.

With regard to games you think MS would get a pass if they put out buggy broken games out quickly? I thought quality was most important. Seeing MS delay games like Starfield isn't fun but it's certainly better than releasing lower quality title. I've already listed previous releases which scored well. I know people on the forums claim to know more than MS when it comes to gaming but I'm pretty sure they can figure it out.

Exactly. And I don't think anyone is doing themselves any favors whitewashing Xbox first party output with studio acquisition. Those purchases are a win for Microsoft, but there is a saying "wins hides sins" and Microsoft still has a lot of "sins" when it comes to first party output that they need to atone for (metaphorically speaking).

You claim white washing but perhaps you have heard the phrase a win is a win. If MS makes a good purchase like Mojang for instance it's a win plain and simple. Their first party studio stuff will work itself out and those games will release.

We should be glad MS isn't rushing stuff out and continuing to focus on quality. It isn't like MS ever put a focus on first party historically so this whole thing is a transition for them seeing how they've never had this many studios.

 

[Topher]

I thought every game MS delivered this generation was well rated. Halo Infinite, Forza Horizon 5, Pyschonauts 2, Grounded, Pentiment, Gears Tactics, Gears Hive Busters, Deathloop, and MS Flight Simulator all scored well. Ghostwire Toyko I think was the lowest scoring title. Plus all the 3rd party deals. You can argue that those games aren't your favorite genre but it is simply inaccurate to say MS does not put out high-quality games.

What they don't put out is lots of single player, 3rd person, story driven titles. Guess what? That has never been the type of games they release. They have lasted 20 years doing what they have done and they are still here and have made plenty of adjustments. More games are coming next year but there is little chance that they'll start copying Sony's game design choices any time soon. They have success doing things their own way.


Do you have evidence of good will being lost with gamers? Last I checked Xbox Series consoles was selling better than their previous efforts. I thought Game pass was still gaining subs.

With regard to games you think MS would get a pass if they put out buggy broken games out quickly? I thought quality was most important. Seeing MS delay games like Starfield isn't fun but it's certainly better than releasing lower quality title. I've already listed previous releases which scored well. I know people on the forums claim to know more than MS when it comes to gaming but I'm pretty sure they can figure it out.

You claim white washing but perhaps you have heard the phrase a win is a win. If MS makes a good purchase like Mojang for instance it's a win plain and simple. Their first party studio stuff will work itself out and those games will release.

We should be glad MS isn't rushing stuff out and continuing to focus on quality. It isn't like MS ever put a focus on first party historically so this whole thing is a transition for them seeing how they've never had this many studios.

I said putting out highly rated games consistently. Microsoft needs to be much better than they have been. As I said, that is something their acquisitions are supposed to fix that, but until that happens it is a valid criticism. I'm not saying Xbox has lost customers yet, but they cannot keep up the inconsistencies and the constant "next year" chant and expect for gamers to hang around. An entire calendar year with next to nothing isn't good. You and others had no problem bragging loudly when MS was publisher of the year. If a "win is a win" then a loss is a loss. This year is a loss for Microsoft.

 

[sachos]

Once they start releasing the new Doom, Wolfenstein, Quake, Dishonored, Prey, Fallout, Elder Scrolls is going to get real. They now have the IPs but what i hope is that they can actually manage them to grow even stronger.
Not all their games need to hit Sony first party level or style but i think they AT LEAST need 2 games that can compete with Sony games, in terms of graphics/production value. Sony's first party releases feel like huge gaming events, like how GoWR was topping the Twitch viewers charts for like a week straight.

They also have to demonstrate they have the talent to create and surprise us with brand new IPs of AAA quality, like what Sony did with Horizon or Ghost of Tsushima last gen.

Revive some dead IPs like Project Gotham Racing, Banjoo or FEAR (do they own it after Activision?). Embrace your original "Successor to Dreamcast" nickname by creating more arcade like games, focus on couch coop/splitscreen (something almost noone is doing).

I like the idea from other comments here of giving resources to smallers teams to pursue passion indie like projects, like Pentiment. They can differentiate themselves there.

 

[DarkMage619]

I said putting out highly rated games consistently. Microsoft needs to be much better than they have been. As I said, that is something their acquisitions are supposed to fix that, but until that happens it is a valid criticism. I'm not saying Xbox has lost customers yet, but they cannot keep up the inconsistencies and the constant "next year" chant and expect for gamers to hang around. An entire calendar year with next to nothing isn't good. You and others had no problem bragging loudly when MS was publisher of the year. If a "win is a win" then a loss is a loss. This year is a loss for Microsoft.

Game delays have hit every developer under the sun but we can pretend that it's only a MS problem. Again people aren't typically buying Xbox looking for big budget single player productions either but we'll pretend they are on that too. It's fun to pretend.

What is reality is that XSS has dropped to $250 and Game pass is continually getting new releases. We'll see how much of a 'loss' MS has at the end of the year shall we? These things aren't happening 'next year'. Getting more 'Switch will be a failure' vibes again.

 

[Del_X]

They seem in a pretty good position to deliver a lot of high quality games. They did alright last year, this year was weak, next year looks good.

They already have the XSS which will be like crack in a recession. Wii-tier if they can get some family-friendly stuff bundled with it.

 

[FritzJ92]

Whats the point of this thread? MS is not dead and neither is Xbox...
To join the party with everything going against them and compete with Sony and Nintendo who has the nostalgia factor by the balls, I would say they are doing pretty good.

Microsoft need to only focus on producing engaging content and they will win. What made the Xbox 360 so strong isn't just performance but content, good content. They pushed great mini-games that made you turn your Xbox on for a few minutes and for a few hours.

 

[Topher]

Game delays have hit every developer under the sun but we can pretend that it's only a MS problem. Again people aren't typically buying Xbox looking for big budget single player productions either but we'll pretend they are on that too. It's fun to pretend.

Not pretending a thing. Plenty of game publishers have delays that don't leave a massive crater in their game lineup like the one currently existing for Xbox. If that publisher is also on the hook for creating content for a platform then that is a big problem.

What is reality is that XSS has dropped to $250 and Game pass is continually getting new releases. We'll see how much of a 'loss' MS has at the end of the year shall we? These things aren't happening 'next year'. Getting more 'Switch will be a failure' vibes again.

I didn't call anything a failure or say anything was going to be a failure. I'm saying this is a bad year for Xbox first party. And I think it is crucial that they recover next year with some kickass games, namely Starfield and Redfall. I think they will do that and I will give them praise when they earn it, not before, just as I praised them for winning Publisher of the Year last year. I'll just be happier with their output when it is more consistent. That is being completely fair.

 

[zzill3]

MS are pretty well successful, you just have to stop thinking of success in terms of multi million dollar console exclusive third person action adventure games.
https://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/year/xbox-series-x/filtered
4 90+ games and 21 80+ games released in what is thought to be their worst year, along with the best value subscription service in gaming that just keeps getting better.

They could do more, of course, but they’re far from the disaster a lot of people think they are

 

[Punished Miku]

MS are pretty well successful, you just have to stop thinking of success in terms of multi million dollar console exclusive third person action adventure games.
https://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/year/xbox-series-x/filtered
4 90+ games and 21 80+ games released this year, along with the best value subscription service in gaming that just keeps getting better.

They could do more, of course, but they’re far from the disaster a lot of people think they are

If they release a third person cinematic dad-venture then everyone will just find a way to say they copied and can't do their own thing, or it's not quite as good as what Sony did.

The best case scenario is MS doing unique games that aren't common first party games from Sony or Nintendo. That is what they appear to be doing now.

 

[Varteras]

Xbox is successful. The question should probably be, "What does Xbox need to do to find itself in the same league as PlayStation and Nintendo"?

And this is obvious. Release high impact games on a consistent basis. Both PlayStation and Nintendo regularly release games that drive conversation. Even when the critical reception isn't completely glowing for some games, they still manage to turn heads. Because it is far more important to get the bulk of the gaming community's attention than a handful of it who call themselves journalists. That being said, they frequently win over both.

That's not to say that there are no Xbox games that go on to good success. But their success feels so muted comparatively. You'd have to be in denial or largely existing in an echo chamber to not see that the community at large buzzes much more loudly over well more PlayStation and Nintendo games.

It's not even just other first party releases that so often overshadow Xbox games. It's third party as well. As a publisher in general, Xbox games just get lost in the noise of other releases and upcoming titles.

Halo Infinite had a moment and then lost it. Starfield has done so much of the heavy lifting for the brand and at this point even that feels like it collapsed under the weight. That could bounce back at release but that alone is not enough even if it does. Xbox needs a Starfield year after year for years into the future. It needs more games like Returnal that just surprise people and get them talking about games they wrote off.

Xbox needs to find their own gems and lovingly polish them. Not hand them off to someone who clearly doesn't respect what they've been given. Like Halo being given to Bonnie Ross and then taking a decade to realize she was using that gem like a buttplug.

They need to cultivate the kind of talent that produces those games and assure that cultures of excellence are being nurtured within their groups. You don't have to be perfect. No company in this industry nails it every time. PlayStation and Nintendo have both dropped duds plenty of times.

But when PlayStation and Nintendo are putting out God of Wars and Zeldas with exclamation points you can't release a Halo with a question mark. When Pokémon, Animal Crossing, Splatoon, Smash Bros, Ghost of Tsushima, The Last of Us, Horizon, and Spiderman are on the menu then Psychonauts, Deathloop, Pentiment, and Ghostwire just aren't gonna get ordered.

There is nothing wrong with those games. They're great. But they're not hanging around in conversation years later. They're not impacting the community at large at anywhere near the same magnitudes, if having any impact at all. And as I said, that's not even including third party offerings.

Xbox needs to come with more games that just punches the community in the gut and has them talking about it for a long time. That's easier said than done but that's why I said you nurture good cultures, find talent, and keep your successes in the hands of competent people.

They have the money and people who have been in the game for a while now but their overly hands-off approach isn't working for them right now. That comes AFTER your teams have landed you in that league.

Just like a sports team needs to win more than a couple big games to become a dynasty, Xbox needs to bring industry shaking titles again and again, almost without fail, if they want to sit at the same table as PlayStation and Nintendo.

Mind you, that is not some impossible feat and the moves being made lately could very easily see that achievement reached. It's just not on the horizon right now.

 

[keefged4]

Enough with the endless cycle of Halo / Forza / Gears of War. Actually do something decent with Rareware. More interesting Exclusives.