What Is Sony Now?
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Who said their costs aren't higher? It's quite possible their margins are similar, but with less sales due to pricing.
umm ... why?
The article isn't discussing SCE. It's mostly talking about their non-gaming CE business - particularly displays.
As opposed to expensive shitty TVs.
I feel the company still has great ideas, and can do great things. I just really feel they don't know how to market, or price their stuff. That 3D Headset thing should be the "It" thing because once you set it up right, it's amazing. But while there's a tonne of hype for it, it's unlikely to translate into anything substantial.
Maybe because people are buying those Samsung models instead of the Sony ones. Within the circle of people I know, Sony doesn't really even enter the equation in terms of HDTVs.
Sony lost me when they started to make everything proprietary. Memory cards, connectors, batteries, every accessory for every thing, wen't proprietary and they absolutely gouged the shit out of the consumer for the accessory, that's when i just decided, they'd lose the plot, and my business.
No because Sony's problem is a lack of direction and no vision of how all the various arms work together as a unified product. They've got everything to be the leader in home and portable entertainment and have regularly failed at fixing this or executing on ideas that would work.
Gaming has little to do with it. It's a much deeper problem.
Kutaragi got complete reign to do whatever he wanted with the PS3 (and after the massive success of the PS1 and PS2, he earned it). But he completely went overboard. It was extremely irresponsible to engineer an ~$800 machine that would lose the company hundreds of dollars per unit sold. Kutaragi wasn't some technical novice; he was a veteran. And he had enough business experience to should have known it was a money buster. And, yeah, whoever was the CEO at Sony that left Kutaragi completely unchecked certainly deserve to be outed as well. I remember reading Stringer tried to reign Kutaragi in, but he came too late to make any significant changes.
Sony can't play in TVs in the same way US RAM producers died in the 80's. TV's are no longer high-tech, just a box that is a content vector. The treadmill of producing at industry quality with a lower price isn't something Sony can do. Either it innovates in hardware or software and tech is moving to software quick. Sony will never be able to compete against Samsung just as Samsung is fated to fall against mainland Chinese manufacturers eventually. Hardware is ultimately a commoditized good.
AgentChris
Member
I completely agree. The old Sony board members are the ones holding Sony back. I bet Sony has some cool products in R&D but won't see the light of day. Sony built it's empire on the backs of engineers but now they've become so colossal that they can't do anything right. When they have a good product they either overprice or don't advertise. They have too many divisions with no vision. Every division within Sony needs major trimming and better CEO's.
Outside of Vita all of their stuff is generally industry standard.
Their gaming division is probably one of their more positive performing sectors. PS3 was the best selling console last quarter and the PS2 and PSP continues to selling a surprisingly decent amount of hardware (can't say for software, though). Really, it wouldn't take a whole lot to get SCE back up to snuff.
outunderthestars
Banned
Sony will need to give up its semiconductor manufacturing divisions in the near future if they want to survive. It's an industry that requires a lot of capital, and Sony does not have enough cash lying around for that and their other divisions.
No, it's not. They also had batteries, cords, and........ basically if you wanted an accessory for your mini disc, camera, or anything else, only the Sony brand would work, because they came up with some obscure proprietary design that they didn't license to anyone else.
They might have finally changed now... i wouldn't know, i don't even look for sony branded electronics in any category.
Where they were once the standard, they're just not relevant anymore, to me anyway.
Many times though, they had valid reasons for doing this sort of thing.
The_Hitcher89
Member
All of my electronics are Sony except for my speakers, and I couldn't be happier. I wish they'd put more focus on making better the stuff that they've always been good at, rather than haphazardly trying to shoulder their way into markets that have no room for another competitor, or no avenue to differentiate their products. Sometimes you've just gotta accept it when another company has the market cornered, unless you can patent and release something revolutionary.
FFS, software is where you make the money, and DLC and subscriptions to stuff like Netflix, or Live Gold, and movies. Simply selling PS3s or PSPs isn't going to cut it unless they deliver on selling software.
It's a razor blade model.
Technosteve
Banned
After the PS2, they lost what ever magic they had left from the walkman, trinitron days. Now they make overpriced middling consumer products. The Koreans are kicking their ass in every segment.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
What does that mean in the difference of picture quality? Were the XBR HX909 using the Sharp LCD?
You know nothing uses Memory Stick anymore, right?
Most, if not all of their phones and such use SD in some capacity. The only exception in the portable space is Vita, where they're using the proprietary cards to recoup losses off of hardware.
I just bought their hmz-t1 lol
It's a first gen product, and I don't mind being an early adopter for this. Once their competitors join in on the head mounted display fun, I wouldn't be surprised if the competition was much cheaper. Sony generally sells their products for a premium, that most people aren't willing to pay.
It's a first gen product, and I don't mind being an early adopter for this. Once their competitors join in on the head mounted display fun, I wouldn't be surprised if the competition was much cheaper. Sony generally sells their products for a premium, that most people aren't willing to pay.
I'm kind of new at this. Can anyone help me make that guy into an avatar?
quick and dirty
outunderthestars
Banned
Thanks!MeBecomingI
Member
That right there is the biggest problem with the company. Poor management structure and stubborn executives.
Sony needs to focus on lowering their prices. They still make some of the best products in any sector they are in, but the price is the major hinderence. They stick to the 'premium luxury' moniker and charge those kind of prices, but the market and the rest of the world has changed around them. They need to refocus themselves and they can start to reorganizing the management structure. Stringer can stay on as a member of the board because he has great vision and management ability, but Kazuo Hirai needs to step in, assert authority and start to shape the company back into the affordable, but best on the market powerhouse they were a few years back. Take the reigns from Samsung and get into a price war with them. Integrate every single device you make into each other (which they are starting to do, but too slowly) and make the prices of purchase low. They can win back the market, but they need to work quickly.
And they really, really need to make a beautiful but technologically powerful smartphone and compete directly against with Apple and Samsung. Don't dance around and wait for the moment, but strike quick and efficiently.
The PlayStation Vita should be how Sony approaches the stuff they make... technological powerhouse, absolutely gorgeous and affordable. I'm glad to hear they are going to start outsourcing their mid-range T.V's and R&D / internally build the high end stuff. That should hopefully help stop the building and maybe even start putting them into that aforementioned price war with Samsung.
Good luck, Sony. Hopefully you wake up and start changing... quickly.
I know people like to blame Kutaragi for the PS3 failure as the easy way out but it's not that simple. Sony's CEO back in the day wanted Sony to make their own chips and started the CELL stuff he also wanted to push Blu-Ray. So the board told Kutaragi to make a super computer and didn't step in when he blew the PlayStation 2 profits on PS3 R&D expenses.
So when Microsoft started shopping around for the 360 in 2003, IBM and Sony were already hard to work on the Cell. No way they could develop something comparable for Microsoft in 2 years so IBM used bits and pieces of the Cell design for the PowerPC processor found in the Xbox 360. Sony's first tape out of the Cell went south and they had to wait for the next batch. MS's first batch of chips also failed but they had a backup plan in store that made sure the Xbox 360 would ship in 2005. Add in the problem with the Blu-Ray diodes and whatnot and there was just no way for Kutaragi to beat Microsoft at that game. He simply did what his bosses told him to and when he failed because of decisions made by Sony's board he was kicked out as the only one to blame. Given his reputation as a rogue engineer this was an obvious conclusion. Sony wasn't 'in trouble' it was just crazy Ken guys, really! Not to mention Kaz was probably gunning for his job.
lunarworks
Member
Absolutely this. They've failed at every attempt to do their own store.
If Sony had any clue, they would admit defeat, and find a way to kiss Apple's ass and get in on iTunes. Nothing is impossible. Apple right now is what Sony used to be, so that would be an ideal partnership.
outunderthestars
Banned
Or partner with Amazon......
I know at least the 52" HX909 used a Sharp UV²A panel - I'd assume any of the others that matched an available size did as well.
I don't know all of the differences between UV²A and the S-PVA (that's the S-LCD panel type used in the 929), but one of the obvious differences is native contrast ratio. UV²A does darker blacks and brighter whites. The blacks in particular are at least one of things contributing to the 929's haloing issues.
Your Kuro, like mine, will be a dated piece of shit in about a year. A Vizio will be better, empirically, in a couple of years. HARD REAL TALK.
sixteen-bit
Member
I doubt it.
lunarworks
Member
Amazon is like the Walmart of the internet.
C'mon...
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
Not surprised.
South Korean companies along with Apple have really taken their pedestals.
Samsung is now known as the "high end" company.
LG is now known as the "bang for your buck" company.
Apple is known as the "innovative" and "trendy" company.
Sony reminds me a lot of old SEGA. They have plenty of fantastic ideas. A smartphone with a strong focus on video games. A cheap 3D TV. Trying to get their Playstation product as software service on their proprietary hardware. A small, "fit in your pocket", netbook. All great ideas. However none of them are anywhere close to being fully developed.
South Korean companies along with Apple have really taken their pedestals.
Samsung is now known as the "high end" company.
LG is now known as the "bang for your buck" company.
Apple is known as the "innovative" and "trendy" company.
Sony reminds me a lot of old SEGA. They have plenty of fantastic ideas. A smartphone with a strong focus on video games. A cheap 3D TV. Trying to get their Playstation product as software service on their proprietary hardware. A small, "fit in your pocket", netbook. All great ideas. However none of them are anywhere close to being fully developed.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I thought Sony restructured their various units years ago to solve these exact problems?
Seems the restructuring failed?
Seems the restructuring failed?
Perhaps someone better versed in the world of business and corporate finance can tell me what exactly all this means. What is the 'end game' for Sony given their current woeful performance? While they may not be in danger of going under at what point does this plummeting share price become a real problem?
I was shocked when Sony's share price dipped below $22 a few months ago but since then the share price has plummeted and now rests at $16 which gives Sony a market cap of just $16billion.
While all Japanese tech companies seem to suffering Sony seems to be doing particularly badly.
Sony's media divisions aren't exactly knocking it out of the park either. Being a Japanese company Sony can't really expand in the US market owing to the foreign media ownership laws.
The only growth the Sony media division has show is in the TV department (specifically with cricket rights in the Indian market) and the media division only made a profit after they sold the merchandising rights for the Spiderman films back to Marvel/Disney.
Interesting. I hadn't considered that but it doesn't seem that unconceivable given the shocking state of both corporations.
I was shocked when Sony's share price dipped below $22 a few months ago but since then the share price has plummeted and now rests at $16 which gives Sony a market cap of just $16billion.
While all Japanese tech companies seem to suffering Sony seems to be doing particularly badly.
Sony's media divisions aren't exactly knocking it out of the park either. Being a Japanese company Sony can't really expand in the US market owing to the foreign media ownership laws.
The only growth the Sony media division has show is in the TV department (specifically with cricket rights in the Indian market) and the media division only made a profit after they sold the merchandising rights for the Spiderman films back to Marvel/Disney.
Interesting. I hadn't considered that but it doesn't seem that unconceivable given the shocking state of both corporations.
Naked Snake
Member
I have had this "stigma" ingrained in my mind about Sony TVs (and most of their other products in general, Playstation not withstanding) that they're overpriced, and that you can get equal or better quality at the same price from Samsung or some other brand.
Don't know how true it is, but I pretty much never put Sony in consideration when looking for a TV or a camera, either for me or for friends/family. It's weird.
Don't know how true it is, but I pretty much never put Sony in consideration when looking for a TV or a camera, either for me or for friends/family. It's weird.
Pretty much the opposite with most people I know. I find them almost always getting a Sony branded camera (like cybershot) or TV (bravias or whatever), and even laptops (vaio).
Only thing they would never get from Sony is speaker systems or desktop computers.
damn bro.
Melchiah
Member
As far as TVs go, Sony was often the leader in the comparison tests I've read in Finnish magazines, recently they seem to have been bested by Panasonic, but still remain among the top two or three. As for cameras, the top two were usually Sony and Canon, but I haven't read camera comparisons for a while.
I've bought Sony products in the past (stereos, televisions, portable music devices, etc), even though they were always 20% more than their competitors. Once the Koreans started making quality products, I have switched to their products.
I think Sony made a huge mistake by trying to market their brand as a fashion choice. It was a weak way to try to justify their higher costs, while their competitors were able to make a comparable product for less cost. It seems to have worked for Apple, but that was only after years of trying and they had reached the brink of non-existence.
I think Sony made a huge mistake by trying to market their brand as a fashion choice. It was a weak way to try to justify their higher costs, while their competitors were able to make a comparable product for less cost. It seems to have worked for Apple, but that was only after years of trying and they had reached the brink of non-existence.
demigod
Member
Sony used to be about tech and reliability. Problem with them is now, other companies have BETTER tech than them. Seriously, who the fuck wants to pay $700 for Xperia Play with outdated tech? Sony TVs are not worth the money either when Panasonic and Samsung plasmas are better. I'm guessing Samsung LEDs are better too. They need to fire the R&D at Sony Ericsson and price their TVs more competitively.
Loonz
Member
NOW they're using industry standards, but back then in the first years of the 2000's if you wanted a Sony-Ericsson phone to listen to music you had to use their own proprietary cards and their own headphones (as their phones didn't have the standard connector). Not to mention that back then when the MP3s were the rage if you bought a Sony one you had to convert your MP3 songs to some obscure format only Sony products used (I can't remember it now) and then use some horribly clunky software to put your songs on the players. Their digital cameras only used their overpriced proprietary cards as well.
In those years every single time I was interested in buying some electronic equipment the only thing Sony offered me was overpriced products plagued with an indefinite amount of barriers for the user. They were quality products, but the hassle wasn't worth it. In those years they lost me as a client of their electronics, apart from the Playstation brand.
EDIT: nowadays Samsung is my go-to electronics brand. I have some PC monitors and even TVs, every single one from Samsung. And if they're not the best I don't mind at all: they work well for me.
Sony Bravia lineup is a winner in terms of aesthetics and performance.
As for other things Sony...
I love Sony.
As for other things Sony...
- Vaio laptop series - overpriced like mad when they have the looks and the horsepower, the budget range looks like shit.
- Walkmans - have gotten better, but the top of the line is still horribly overpriced (X series in the last season, A series now).
- Professional DSLR cameras - overpriced. As are the lenses.
- Video cameras - nice, some are overpriced.
- Tablet(s) - hardware side is solid, software and pricing are fucked up.
- Smartphones - great hardware, fucked up prices and software lagging behind three generations.
I love Sony.
Naked Snake
Member
I know a lot of people who go to Sony first. And I might have been one of them at some point (when Sony really made the best electronics). I still use my Sony home theater from last gen (haven't upgraded to HD audio yet), and my I still refuse to let go of my Sony CRT (which I never use anymore, just holding on to it for legacy purposes).
Yeah at one point I guess I was a Sony person. Not anymore.
<3 Playstation though.
Oh man, I would've loved to see this thread on the gaming side. :lol
Sony used to be top-tier. Now they are just middle of the road, easily matched, or outdone, in all markets. Sony had an inflated view of itself and thought customers would stick with them (and their high prices) regardless of what the competition brought to the table.. A quick and easy example of this is the gaming industry. Sony went from outselling the competition by well over 100M units, to maybe coming in 2nd place (2nd!) 5yrs into a generation.
Sony used to be top-tier. Now they are just middle of the road, easily matched, or outdone, in all markets. Sony had an inflated view of itself and thought customers would stick with them (and their high prices) regardless of what the competition brought to the table.. A quick and easy example of this is the gaming industry. Sony went from outselling the competition by well over 100M units, to maybe coming in 2nd place (2nd!) 5yrs into a generation.
GotEmRunnin
Member
I completely agree with the folks talking about the koreans leap frogging sony in terms or quality. My entertainment center is all LG with the exception of my PS3 and cable box.
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