What is the best way to approach a friend who pirates games?

hohoXD123 said:
Is it worth hounding your "friend" over it and reporting him to the authorities who literally could not give a shit? Not really. The best answer imo is to educate him on the great alternatives out there and maybe on the consequences of his actions, not act like a dick.
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To the pirates: If you're using the "legal definition" as an excuse to be a scumbag because "nobody gets hurt", you need to know that you're still a scumbag (who steals stuff) and you don't deserve to be trusted.

Legal definitions aside. You don't turn them into the authorities, because you're right, the authorities don't care about the little guy pirating games off torrents. and you don't actually want your friend to get in trouble anyway, you just want them to stop pirating games.

For the OP:
If he really is your friend, then yea, I think you do hound him about it. If you actually care about your friend then it's your job to let him know he's fucking up. If he disagrees about it then maybe it's time to re-evaluate who you are friends with. Do you really want to be friends with someone who thinks it's okay to be a scumbag?

Lothar said:
Spoken like someone without any scumbags for friends.
Click to expand...
Fixed that for you.
 
shuri said:
Tell him that if he does not stop, you will simply report him to your local authorities or to the makers of the games. Friend or not, this has to stop. His torrenting is hurting devs, and the smaller devs actually NEED to those sales.

Sometimes you need to go hard.

edit: Another way would be to simply get him a steam account, and whenever he express interest in pirating a title; just buy it and gift it to his account. Make him aware of that. It might be expensive for a while, but in the long run, your example will impress him and he is going to start buying his own games. Send him txt messages about steam deals every few days, remind him that pc gaming is not expensive and that deals are always to be had.
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Haha! Thanks for the laugh :)
 
Take him out back and beat him with a hose.

Seriously though, I haven't really understood why people pirate when steam has them at such a low price on a regular basis.
 
I don't understand the rationale that its worse to pirate from small developers. Big developers experience layoffs too.

Surely if its wrong its wrong.
 
Mention something to him. If he keeps going, well...oh well. If you're really good friends, I doubt you'd cut ties over piracy.

I know lots of former pirates who are legit now. Lots of pirates in Australia, but all the ones I knew buy games legit now.

Even I was a pirate a looooong long time ago in the Dreamcast days. Quite ironically I found myself playing less games because I simply had too many. So I started buying legit again and keeping my collections smaller and found I started playing games way more again.
 
At least ask him to stop bragging about it to you. I imagine hearing "...and I totally downloaded it for free!" all the time must get annoying as fuck no matter what your personal stance on piracy is.
 
Steel said:
Honestly never used Dolphin, so I have no idea. And I was kinda saying that I seriously doubt most people rip games directly from the medium they come from. Personally I generally try to emulate games I've purchased in the past, though.




First: Legal definition, nobody gets fined for stealing a kiss(Which is simply a metaphor, not literal), and if they do, it falls under sexual harassment. Pirating falls under copy-right infringement, like boot-legging did.

Second: In the case of stealing a party is always harmed. In the case of pirating, if the person who pirates didn't intend to purchase the game, no one is harmed. It's not a justification, but it's a difference.
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Even if the pirate originally would have brought the game, they aren't depriving the developer of property already in their possession. Essentially, they're just choosing not to help them despite receiving a benefit from their work. You can easily argue that doing that is unfair, and I would actually agree with that, but it is not the same as stealing. Stealing victimizes someone and piracy does not, and this is where I find arguments on piracy to be kind of stupid. The only argument against it I would say is totally valid is that it's not fair to the developer, not that it directly hurts them, and at the end of the day it just depends upon whether or not the pirate cares about that. If they don't there's really not much else to say.
 
SHAFT MASTER said:
Take him out back and beat him with a hose.

Seriously though, I haven't really understood why people pirate when steam has them at such a low price on a regular basis.
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As someone who used to pirate games years back, it came down to money for me. I was a broke college student, I simply couldn't afford most games.
 
Posting again since it seems to have gotten lost in the fray (adding to OP as well):

Skiesofwonder said:
After reading the majority of your guys' posts, I broached the topic and he said he doesn't feel bad because of all the shit developers pull with DLC. I laughed and basically told him I didn't agree with what he was doing, especially with pirating indie games, and that shitty DLC doesn't justify it. He said there wasn't a difference in big/indie developers, so I brought up the indie movie we recently watched, and he then laughed and said that he usually will buy the game when it's cheap on steam to support the indie developer, but they were currently asking too much for it. He said this particular developer was going to hit it big anyway so it wasn't a big deal.

We then moved onto something else.
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If the subject is brought up again I will restate that I feel it is wrong but outside of that I don't plan to bring it up again. Is that the right thing to do in this situation?
 
Don't approach it from a morality and legality standpoint, it's useless. If he doesn't already find piracy morally objectionable, telling him about some random Poor Developers™ isn't going to change his mind. The legal aspect is also irrelevant until the guy starts getting bombarded with stories of pirates getting jailed/fined for downloading... which he won't since it ain't happening.

Instead, try to explain what he's missing out by pirating. Introduce him to Steam. Make sure he knows about all the benefits Steam provides, especially when it comes to convenience. The best way is through a Steam sale, where you buy him his first game for cheap. It's a standard "first shot's for free" drug dealer tactic. Hook him in, let him see it's much easier this way than dealing with cracks and manual patching.

If that doesn't do it, introduce him to free 2 play games. If he gets hooked, he'll most likely start paying since you can't pirate shit in online games.

If even that doesn't work, maybe try and convince him buying games is like voting, except you vote with your wallet. So if he doesn't start paying, other people who do pay are going to decide what gets made and what doesn't in the future.

To summarize, make it around what he's missing out, not what developers, publisher and others are. That shit just doesn't work.
 
Skiesofwonder said:
Posting again since it seems to have gotten lost in the fray (adding to OP as well):



If the subject is brought up again I will restate that I feel it is wrong but outside of that I don't plan to bring it up again. Is that the right thing to do in this situation?
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Don't be encouraged by people telling you to denigrate your friend or whatever. Your friend is an adult who can make his own decisions on internet piracy. It's not like he's doing drugs or going out at night to do strong-arm robberies.
 
Burekma said:
Don't approach it from a morality and legality standpoint, it's useless. If he doesn't already find piracy morally objectionable, telling him about some random Poor Developers™ isn't going to change his mind. The legal aspect is also irrelevant until the guy starts getting bombarded with stories of pirates getting jailed/fined for downloading... which he won't since it ain't happening.

Instead, try to explain what he's missing out by pirating. Introduce him to Steam. Make sure he knows about all the benefits Steam provides, especially when it comes to convenience. The best way is through a Steam sale, where you buy him his first game for cheap. It's a standard "first shot's for free" drug dealer tactic. Hook him in, let him see it's much easier this way than dealing with cracks and manual patching.

If that doesn't do it, introduce him to free 2 play games. If he gets hooked, he'll most likely start paying since you can't pirate shit in online games.

If even that doesn't work, maybe try and convince him buying games is like voting, except you vote with your wallet. So if he doesn't start paying, other people who do pay are going to decide what gets made and what doesn't in the future.

To summarize, make it around what he's missing out, not what developers and publisher are. That shit just doesn't work.
Click to expand...

He already uses Steam, he loves it. The voting angle is something I'll bring up if the subject is breached again though.
 
Skiesofwonder said:
Posting again since it seems to have gotten lost in the fray (adding to OP as well):



If the subject is brought up again I will restate that I feel it is wrong but outside of that I don't plan to bring it up again. Is that the right thing to do in this situation?
Click to expand...

I don't think bringing it up again will serve much purpose, but after reading that I think your friend is stupid. I don't think piracy is particularly bad but I'm honestly irritated by the pathetic justification of it more than anything. I'd respect him more if he said he'd support what he liked. I'd respect him more if he just didn't have the money. I'd even respect him more if he just said he didn't give a shit.

EDIT: I was being a little too harsh. If he's still willing to support indie developers, then I guess it's whatever.
 
I used to download games back when i was 15 or 16, before I got a job.

Now I dont have enough time to play the games i actually buy lol.

am i getting banned?
 
Ketch said:
If he was my friend I would just constantly flame him for being a scumbag thief and bring it up in casual conversation when you're around groups of friends.

example 1: You and the pirate guy just chillin
Pirate: "Oh man this new game is so cool, check it out"
You: "Yea, it is cool. Glad I paid for mine like an honest person. How does it feel to be scumbag thief?"

example 2: You and pirate and group of friends
Pirate: "Oh man, isn't it fun to socialize with friends in a casual setting?"
Friend #1: "Oh yea"
Friend #2: "Friends are great"
Friend #3: "Glad we know people we can trust"
You: "Did you guys know this pirate steals video games all the time? Watch your wallets"

example 3: Phone conversation
Pirate: "Want to come over and hang out?"
You: "Have you stopped stealing shit all the time?"
Click to expand...

this is the funniest shit i've read all day

"how does it feel to be a scumbag thief" does anyone actually talk like that?
 
I have a friend who does it. I would bug him about it sometimes like "come on man! These people work hard on this stuff, if everyone always did this the industry would die and videogames would go bye bye".
Then he says that if its any good he will go buy it which I have seen him do and I don't know what to say to that.
 
Colivar said:
I want to go on record saying that I don't approve of piracy, and I don't download anything. I also want to say that I DO understand why some people do though.

Dropping $50-60 on a game that turns out to be total dogshit can be hard to swallow. Dropping $50-60 on a game that can be beaten in 4 hours is also hard to swallow. Piracy isn't the correct response to this, but I get why some people say "screw it" and just start downloading. Certain companies like to put shit-in-a-box and slap a $60 tag on it.

I have a friend who buys most games legit. He has a blacklist though of companies who he feels have wronged him by selling garage to him. Example? Gearbox. He was one of the poor suckers who bought Aliens:CM, and because of that put them on the list. They come off the list after he feels like he got his monies worth off their other products. Borderlands next installment is getting downloaded instead of bought. Do I approve? Not really. I get it though. If more people downloaded like that companies might actually try to release good products at all times and never release unfinished trash to make a quick buck.
Click to expand...

Or he could just not play the game, there is no need to make excuses.
 
Seeing so many people talking about Steam sales in this thread is sort of weird to me. I suppose buying a game at 75%+ off is better than nothing but it seems like a rather low horse to be sitting on. Anyway, free is still better than cheap so I'm not sure how that's a good argument in the first place.
 
Krejlooc said:
Right is subjective, but it's what normal, well adjusted people would do, yes.
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That's what I figured. Thanks for the feedback, now that I've at least addressed the situation and let my opinion known, I feel better about it.

Marcel said:
Don't be encouraged by people telling you to denigrate your friend or whatever. Your friend is an adult who can make his own decisions on internet piracy. It's not like he's doing drugs or going out at night to do strong-arm robberies.
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Yeah I'm not going to take some moral high-ground here and scold him. I've pirated before when I was younger, not much but I've done it before. It mostly came down to a money-issue and I don't think I was mature enough to fully understand the effect it could potentially have on other people.

Maybe he is just going through some money issues himself or just a random stage in his life. Honestly I don't know, and it's not any of my business anyways. But I felt like it was the right thing to point out that I personally don't agree with it and it's not a cool thing to do. If it leads to him stopping, awesome! If not, well at least he might stop bragging about it lol.
 
Xilium said:
Seeing so many people talking about Steam sales in this thread is sort of weird to me. I suppose buying a game at 75%+ off is better than nothing but it seems like a rather low horse to be sitting on. Anyway, free is still better than cheap so I'm not sure how that's a good argument in the first place.
Click to expand...

Because many people who pirate think games are all around $60 which they can't afford. If you show them that there are steam sales and that games can be gotten for quite cheap, they're more likely to pay for it.
 
Aquamarine said:
It's stealing when it's a lost sale.


Would you bought it if you couldn't have pirated it...like the OP's friend did with indie games?

Then it's stealing.
Click to expand...

the mythical "lost sale" jargon has turned up again.

Ketch said:
If he was my friend I would just constantly flame him for being a scumbag thief and bring it up in casual conversation when you're around groups of friends.

example 1: You and the pirate guy just chillin
Pirate: "Oh man this new game is so cool, check it out"
You: "Yea, it is cool. Glad I paid for mine like an honest person. How does it feel to be scumbag thief?"

example 2: You and pirate and group of friends
Pirate: "Oh man, isn't it fun to socialize with friends in a casual setting?"
Friend #1: "Oh yea"
Friend #2: "Friends are great"
Friend #3: "Glad we know people we can trust"
You: "Did you guys know this pirate steals video games all the time? Watch your wallets"

example 3: Phone conversation
Pirate: "Want to come over and hang out?"
You: "Have you stopped stealing shit all the time?"
Click to expand...

hahahaha jesus, this thread is hysterical
 
Xilium said:
Seeing so many people talking about Steam sales in this thread is sort of weird to me. I suppose buying a game at 75%+ off is better than nothing but it seems like a rather low horse to be sitting on. Anyway, free is still better than cheap so I'm not sure how that's a good argument in the first place.
Click to expand...

Look at valve's study into historically piracy-riddled markets and the effects aggressive pricing has. One of their proudest achievements is cracking the notoriously piracy-centric Russian market with aggressive pricing.

And they're about to try this in china, next.
 
Ketch said:
To the pirates: If you're using the "legal definition" as an excuse to be a scumbag because "nobody gets hurt", you need to know that you're still a scumbag (who steals stuff) and you don't deserve to be trusted.

Legal definitions aside. You don't turn them into the authorities, because you're right, the authorities don't care about the little guy pirating games off torrents. and you don't actually want your friend to get in trouble anyway, you just want them to stop pirating games.
Click to expand...

I used the Legal Definition because there's a tangible and widely recognized difference between actual theft and copyright infringement.

For example: Back when VHS was still a thing, you'd be able to buy a bootleg copy of a movie the same day you go to watch it, for far less than the movie would cost commercially when it does hit store shelves. Buying and watching one of these tapes is copyright infringement. From what you're saying, the people who bought these tapes in the past are "Scumbag thieves" that don't deserve to be trusted. At the time that this was a thing, there were very few people who lived in a city of any density that hadn't bought a bootleg tape at one point. What they did was illegal, but it hardly makes them scumbags.

But let's try for an example more relevant to video games:

Fan translations. Remember that Valkyria Chronicles 3 psp translation? That's copy-right infringement, we had an OT for this translation here though. Are the people who played the Fan-Translation scumbags who can't be trusted? I would surmise that the vast majority of the people who played it didn't also ship a copy of the game over from Japan. Apparently these people are "Scumbags who don't deserve to be trusted" because they actually wanted to play the game in a language they understood.
 
Ketch said:
If he was my friend I would just constantly flame him for being a scumbag thief and bring it up in casual conversation when you're around groups of friends.

example 1: You and the pirate guy just chillin
Pirate: "Oh man this new game is so cool, check it out"
You: "Yea, it is cool. Glad I paid for mine like an honest person. How does it feel to be scumbag thief?"

example 2: You and pirate and group of friends
Pirate: "Oh man, isn't it fun to socialize with friends in a casual setting?"
Friend #1: "Oh yea"
Friend #2: "Friends are great"
Friend #3: "Glad we know people we can trust"
You: "Did you guys know this pirate steals video games all the time? Watch your wallets"

example 3: Phone conversation
Pirate: "Want to come over and hang out?"
You: "Have you stopped stealing shit all the time?"
Click to expand...
Why would anyone treat a friend like this? That's so shitty.
 
Skiesofwonder said:
We then moved onto something else. If the subject is brought up again I will restate that I feel it is wrong but outside of that I don't plan to bring it up again. Is that the correct thing to do in this situation?
Click to expand...

Sounds infinitely better than calling the police or being an asshole like some of the suggestions posted here. Not saying that pirating is right but I'm sure there's a large list of good things your friend does that make his opinion on pirating worth ignoring. Not worth losing a friend over.
 
Ketch said:
If he was my friend I would just constantly flame him for being a scumbag thief and bring it up in casual conversation when you're around groups of friends.

example 1: You and the pirate guy just chillin
Pirate: "Oh man this new game is so cool, check it out"
You: "Yea, it is cool. Glad I paid for mine like an honest person. How does it feel to be scumbag thief?"

example 2: You and pirate and group of friends
Pirate: "Oh man, isn't it fun to socialize with friends in a casual setting?"
Friend #1: "Oh yea"
Friend #2: "Friends are great"
Friend #3: "Glad we know people we can trust"
You: "Did you guys know this pirate steals video games all the time? Watch your wallets"

example 3: Phone conversation
Pirate: "Want to come over and hang out?"
You: "Have you stopped stealing shit all the time?"
Click to expand...

You must be a fucking blast at parties.
 
Krejlooc said:
Look at valve's study into historically piracy-riddled markets and the effects aggressive pricing has. One of their proudest achievements is cracking the notoriously piracy-centric Russian market with aggressive pricing.

And they're about to try this in china, next.
Click to expand...

Whoa, really? Southeast Asia, too, please.
 
Mine01 said:
I used to download games back when i was 15 or 16, before I got a job.

Now I dont have enough time to play the games i actually buy lol.

am i getting banned?
Click to expand...

Half the people in this thread would get banned if admitting you pirated in the past is bannable.
 
I wouldn't bother giving a lecture on piracy, just tell him its tasteless to brag about it though. Tell him to keep it to himself.
 
Seriously, if you are worried about it as others have said, introduce him to how affordable Steam, Humble, etc. services are.

Especially during the sales. I got started with $50 and got a shit ton of awesome games.

If he does not care, then really...who cares. Some people just want free stuff and justify however they can to have a guilt free conscience. No biggy.
 
Steel said:
Fan translations. Remember that Valkyria Chronicles 3 psp translation? That's copy-right infringement, we had an OT for this translation here though. Are the people who played the Fan-Translation scumbags who can't be trusted? I would surmise that the vast majority of the people who played it didn't also ship a copy of the game over from Japan. Apparently these people are "Scumbags who don't deserve to be trusted" because they actually wanted to play the game in a language they understood.
Click to expand...

According to unbending hardliner logic, anyone like that is a scumbag thief, regardless of the circumstances. Where were the crusaders to stop the positively offensive Mother 3 translation?
 
Colivar said:
I want to go on record saying that I don't approve of piracy, and I don't download anything. I also want to say that I DO understand why some people do though.

Dropping $50-60 on a game that turns out to be total dogshit can be hard to swallow. Dropping $50-60 on a game that can be beaten in 4 hours is also hard to swallow. Piracy isn't the correct response to this, but I get why some people say "screw it" and just start downloading. Certain companies like to put shit-in-a-box and slap a $60 tag on it.

I have a friend who buys most games legit. He has a blacklist though of companies who he feels have wronged him by selling garage to him. Example? Gearbox. He was one of the poor suckers who bought Aliens:CM, and because of that put them on the list. They come off the list after he feels like he got his monies worth off their other products. Borderlands next installment is getting downloaded instead of bought. Do I approve? Not really. I get it though. If more people downloaded like that companies might actually try to release good products at all times and never release unfinished trash to make a quick buck.
Click to expand...
Tell your friend that Gearbox doesn't deserve the wasted harddrive space, much less money.
 
This is what GAF is for ;P

Odds are someone on these boards (likely a bunch of people) have bought just about every game that is released. I just read what GAFers think on a title if I am hesitant.

This is a huge plus for Steam titles, and the GAF Steam group.

This is coming from a person who used to pirate the shit out of everything because I was too cheap to pay for it. I used every excuse in the book to justify it too.

Now I am older, have a career, and buy my games. Yes I feel ripped off sometimes, but more often than not I am happy with my purchase.
 
I think you shouldn't worry about it and just mind your own business. If he brings up the subject of getting games free just explain that he should stop bringing it up to you and that you don't condone it. Trying to get your friend in trouble with any types of authorities just show you aren't really his friend so I don't know why anyone would suggest that.
 
Krejlooc said:
Look at valve's study into historically piracy-riddled markets and the effects aggressive pricing has. One of their proudest achievements is cracking the notoriously piracy-centric Russian market with aggressive pricing.

And they're about to try this in china, next.
Click to expand...

I would think that the games being released there in a reasonable time-frame had more to do with that. Also, I would argue that piracy there likely hasn't decreased by much (if at all), just that the people that do spend money on games are now spending more because of the reduced prices. The whole point of a sale is to get people to impulse buy which usually leads them to spending more money than they normally would. So I have no doubt that Valve's efforts have paid off financially in Russia (and elsewhere) but I doubt they've done much to convince pirates to not pirate.
 
Scrooge McDuck said:
Whoa, really? Southeast Asia, too, please.
Click to expand...

They basically view all of asia, not just china or southeast asia, as this enormous untapped resource. Essentially, this will be their new battle ground. Really good things should be in store for that market, especially if they bring the heat like they did with the russian market.
 
I and everyone else in my country used to pirate games in pre-digital download days. Also, we were kids/teenagers and it was completely normal.
Then I started making money, in 2008 (got a decent job after dropping out of college). I bought all the games that I finished in my pirate days and bought all new games since.
Friends, for the most part, also started buying games - but it had zero to do with "morality" or even "supporting the devs". The only reason they started buying games is due to Steam making everything so easy and convenient. Pirating became a hassle.

However, one of my friends also keeps pirating most games. Funnily enough, he has higher income than me and works as a programmer.
His reasoning?
"my one purchase or lack thereof is not going to affect success or failure of the company. Plus, any kind of morality is subjective". He only has steam for Counter-Strike and Dota.

I tried reasoning, all there is, but there ain't no convincing. I just accept that he does it. And in some ways envy him, because he can spend all his money on non-copiable things.

But then I remember that I want more games from CD Projekt and Obsidian and Larian and 4A and inXile and therefore supporting them is a must for me, and that's that.
 
If it bothers you that much, as many have suggested just buy the games for him. The guilt of doing so might get him to stop pirating. If it doesn't bother you enough that you're willing to spend your own money to make him stop or try to stop then just leave him alone. He'll grow out of it eventually. Another suggestion would be to buy the games digitally and share your profile with him (PS4, Xbox, Steam) You guys can go halves on the games. This way you save money and you get him to spend a little as well.

It's funny I used to pirate during ps1 and xbox days. I never pirated PS2 or Dreamcast games. When I was pirating games I played and beat everything I pirated. It's funny though. I haven't pirated a game in well over 8 years, I have over 100 legit PS3 and xbox games (not even counting PS+ games), but if you look at my gamer tags on both systems... I think I beat maybe 10 games that whole generation. Spent over $3000 on gaming last gen to not play them. I guess that makes up for the days I used to pirate huh? *shrugs*

People spend their money on whatever it is they want to. Even if he's saving money by pirating he's spending it elsewhere (that's if he has a job). Would it be better for you if he spent money on games, but then had no money to really go out or do things with you or always had to, "borrow" money? At least he's really only downloading them and not going into stores and stealing the physical copies, or worse stealing other things he'd like but can't afford.

Here's a solution to your problem, take him out places. If he doesn't have a girlfriend spend that time helping him pick up girls. Go out to bars, play pool, go to clubs, play sports, go to the gym. The less time he has to play games, it's less likely he'll pirate them and if he does he won't be pirating as much or playing them.
 
Xilium said:
I would think that the games being released there in a reasonable time-frame had more to do with that. Also, I would argue that piracy there likely hasn't decreased by much (if at all), just that the people that do spend money on games are now spending more because of the reduced prices. The whole point of a sale is to get people to impulse buy which usually leads them to spending more money than they normally would. So I have no doubt that Valve's efforts have paid off financially in Russia (and elsewhere) but I doubt they've done much to convince pirates to not pirate.
Click to expand...

The argument isn't so much that piracy decreases (which, as you note, doesn't happen), it's that profits soar. Refusing to enter a market because of the risk of piracy is leaving hundreds of millions of dollars on the table.

People pirate, it happens. Valve's research says one should ignore piracy all together, it's not a lost sale. Concentrate on maximizing revenue with the market left over after piracy. Russia is now Valve's largest source of revenue in eastern europe, which is phenomenal.
 
Considering how gaming today is the cheapest it's ever been I really don't see the point of piracy anymore. Personally, I can't even be assed to pirate games because I know for a fact I won't play them. I don't even have time to play through the mountains of games that I paid for!
 
Om3ga said:
Here's a solution to your problem, take him out places. If he doesn't have a girlfriend spend that time helping him pick up girls. Go out to bars, play pool, go to clubs, play sports, go to the gym. The less time he has to play games, it's less likely he'll pirate them and if he does he won't be pirating as much or playing them.
Click to expand...

Probably the first positive-for-everyone solution to encourage someone not to pirate in this thread. Kudos, seriously.
 
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