What do you think that the new Metroid games are missing now that they have gone 3D? If you ask me, the move from 2D to 3D has lost a lot of gameplay that I really like. But the #1 is the secret paths and bomb tunnel ways. I really want to see a new 2.5D Metroid game. 2D gameplay but full 3D graphics. What the FUCK are they so afraid of?
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What`s Metroid missing??
- Thread starter samusx
- Start date
TekunoRobby
Tag of Excellence
It's what happens when a different team moves a project into a new environment with deeper and richer possibilities.samusx said:
These people have a different mindset of what makes 'Metroid', 'Metroid' and thus create the game differently than the original developer intended. Another shortcoming is the relative lack of stability and control that developers have with the Z-axis than with traditional 2D affairs. Things aren't as easy to implement and also prevent a new range of problems for the player (and developer) to encounter. We've only been working with 3D for about 10 years (I know EXTREMELY rough estimate) and we've had nearly 30 years (I apologize for my rough estimates) to perfect a simpler display method. Game budgets are also rising and development time has generally remained the same for the past 5+ years so developers have less time and money to implement extraneous features that they feel aren't crucial to the game play.
It will take time; nothing happens overnight and rarely are there works of brilliance where everything makes a smooth transition. Enjoy what they were able to create so far and appreciate how they managed to retain a lot of the classic Metroid feel with the new 3D games. If you're still not satisfied then there are two excellent GBA games that are demanding your attention.
TekunoRobby
Tag of Excellence
The only that can happen is if you let Nintendo know. I'd love to see a cool 2.5d side scrolling console game that is classic Metroid but chances are rather slim at the moment. Budgets are higher and consumer demand mirrors that. The average gamer wants to have a beautiful 3D experience in lieu of 2D brilliance. If you can show the company that there is a market for it and it can be successful than it will happen.samusx said:
As of right now, the only way we'll be able to get a 2.5d Metroid is on the DS. Hopefully MP2: Echoes will address many of your sentiments and live up to your expectations!
I agree something is lost when moving Metroid into 3D. Maybe the often expansive rooms and open areas kind of take away the claustrofobic feeling I got from the 2D metroids (well, SNES and forward). Also, the controls make Samus feel more clumsy and slow since you're playing from a FP view.
I still consider Metroid Fusion to be the best Metroid game of this "generation".
I still consider Metroid Fusion to be the best Metroid game of this "generation".
I have send e-mails to Nintendo and Retro. I have gotten Nintendo`s usual bullshit e-mail reply of, "we have many ideas in the works and we will keep your ideas in mind". Bla bla bla. I am begining to hate Nintendo, and I really want them to start listening to there fans and creat something that they want, and not something that they want us to want.
Retro has yet to reply to me.
It really makes no sense. Nintendo says that they want to make games simpler for more people to be able to play, but at the same time they want the games to appeal to the average gamer. So why wouldn`t a 2D game with amazing 3D graphics sound good to them? I don`t get what the hell Nintendo seems to want to give us? What is their position in game creating?
Retro has yet to reply to me.
It really makes no sense. Nintendo says that they want to make games simpler for more people to be able to play, but at the same time they want the games to appeal to the average gamer. So why wouldn`t a 2D game with amazing 3D graphics sound good to them? I don`t get what the hell Nintendo seems to want to give us? What is their position in game creating?
TekunoRobby
Tag of Excellence
I give up.
Tritroid
Member
What the fuck? You actually emailed Nintendo & Retro over this and expected to have your voice heard? You're one person in a population of millions who purchase Nintendo products, with an idea that I'm sure was already considered by Retro during the design stage. Frankly, if I were Nintendo I wouldn't give you the time of day either. (And by the way, every developer is going to treat you the same way if you email them with something this idiotic, not just Nintendo.)samusx said:
The 1st person view in Prime works fine. There are tons of people who like it, myself included, and then there are a select few who for whatever reason refuse to see Prime as a great evolution to the 2D Metroids (Dragona, etc.). The point is, you can't please everyone. There were a number of people who hated Wind Waker's style, and then there were a number of people who liked it. But Nintendo decided to take Zelda 05 back to OoT style since that's what the majority of the fans wanted. So yes, Nintnedo does listen from time to time.
However, since I personally think that Prime's formula is fucking great, and Prime 2 will probably continue that greatness, stop complaining to Nintendo & Retro trying to get them to change it, because I will hunt you down and stab you repeatedly.
I know that you guys. For fucks sake I am not stupid enough to really think that they would really listen to me. But I still did e-mail them anyway. What the hell now, I am not going to be some ass and just complain without actually sending a formal complaint. So I did. But I didn`t expect them to make a game specially for me. I am just voicing my opinion. And to be honest it is not like I am alone, as this post proves. Many people think like me, it is just that the others of you are just too lazy or just don`t care, to send a mail. I don`t expect the world to change just because I have a complaint, but does that mean that I shouldn`t send a mail? Well, does it? NO! If NOBODY ever says anything how do expect the companies to know what we want. So I am one of millions, at least I am one that is doing something. So screw you.
TekunoRobby
Tag of Excellence
You know what you're problem is? You don't have enough kids. Get to work on that and so whenever you want something you and your army of offspring can email to get what you want.samusx said:
So I guess the proof of the horrible sales are from where? All the past `Metroid` games? What about all the cool 3D paper mario games? I understand that a full 3D FPS game is a different kind 3D but you can still have an amazing 3D game in a 2D play environment. What about the 2.5D `Ganbare Goemon` game? It did well, why should `Metroid` be any different? And since when did a 2D `Metroid` sell poorly? Damn it. I don`t want to have to settle for a GBA or DS 2.5D Metroid. I don`t want it half way done, I want it the full 9 yards. And really what is wrong with that. Sure the 3D games are great, but to be honest, you could give that game any name and it will be a great game. There is nothing about that game that makes it `Metroid` other then the name. Really. That is what bothers me, all the things that made `Metroid`, `Metroid` are gone. Now we just have a FPS with the name `Metroid`. I am not here to bad mouth the new 3D Metroid games, because I have the first and I plan on getting the second, but they are NOT `Metroid` games. I am sorry, they are just not in my eyes. They are just great games that bare the same name.
I almost give up, non of you can seem to look past your fanboy love for the game, so it is like talking to a brick wall. I admit the game is GREAT, it is a very very well made game, but it does not hold the things that make it a `Metroid` game. It is a modified FPS game with the name `Metroid`. So if that is a far as I can take you guys then I guess I should not tire my hands anymore trying to get you to understand. But thanks for listening.
TheGreenGiant
Banned
samusx. you are on drugs. that is all.
TekunoRobby
Tag of Excellence
But you did think about my suggestion right? Comeone, you could rule a small country if you put out enough.samusx said:
samusx said:
I don't care. Those "classic touches" mean little to me. I've played and loved the older Metroid games, but locating secret tunnels in the walls is not what made those games good in my eyes. Is that seriously what you are dying for? To roll your damn morph ball around the environment while slamming the bomb button over and over again hoping to find some little tunnel with a worthless item at the end. OH WHAT FUN!
I say that you are flat out WRONG when you attempt to label Prime as a modified FPS with the Metroid name. It is about as true to Metroid as you could possibly get. Just what is it that makes you say that? No hidden passages that must be uncovered with your bombs?!
In my opinion, Prime is the best Metroid game yet created. Castlevania - Symphony of the Night also upstaged every 2D Metroid attempt (even SM). I'd much rather have a new console CV game built in the mold of SotN...
TheGreenGiant
Banned
jarrod said:
a) true but it replaces this with exploration factor x 10000.
b) false; platforming in 2d metroid is really easy and hence not really that engaging. The challenges lay in discovery which ... see a)
TheQueen'sOwn
insert blank space here
Screenboy said:-SBand lets just say thats compensated for in Echos
SON OF A BITCH.
without the "S"s dammit.
boredJonathan
Member
Screenboy said:and lets just say thats compensated for in Echos
-SB
To make up for the bashing you shall now recieve for what I assume is an honest mistake, all I will say is that you have piqued my intrest good sir. Very much so.
I always planned on picking up Echos but now its a done deal.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
Every game that's been transfered from 2D to 3D has lost something IMO. Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Castlevania, Ninja Gaiden, Sonic etc. I thought there was plenty of hidden items in MP. My main complaint is the lack of dual analogue control, which they still haven't fixed. Seriously though, I'm more pissed off about the new GBA Metroids than MP. They took away one of the main points of the game by showing you where to go. What I'm saying is not even the new 2D GBA games retain the same feel as their SNES and NES predecessors. At least you can turn the hint system off in MP.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
We already knew "Metroid" Prime is suck.
It's obligatory now.
It's obligatory now.
The thing that was an error was to make it first person view. Metroid would be perfect in third person view and wouldn't have lost ANYTHING from it's 2D predecessors.
" yeah but in tight corridor... the camera" I can see you coming guys (and your lack of imagination that is). There are ways to overcome this (and probably any other camera problem you could come up with)
" yeah but in tight corridor... the camera" I can see you coming guys (and your lack of imagination that is). There are ways to overcome this (and probably any other camera problem you could come up with)
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
It's a shame Nintendo didn't snag Sega while they had the chance. It would have gauranteed them so many more exclusives. I too would like a third person Metroid.
I thought it would have been cool to be able to switch between any of the three viewpoints anytime throughout the game. Dual analogue controls would mave the camera in 1st and 3rd person. The Z button would put you in 1st person and the X button would still put you in the morph ball. The A and R button would both be your fire button. The L button would still lock on. B would still jump. Start would bring you to your map and weapons etc. The plus pad would be a quick switch for both visors (up and down) and weapons (left and right). They could have some kind of icon on the HUD ala Super Metroid.
I thought it would have been cool to be able to switch between any of the three viewpoints anytime throughout the game. Dual analogue controls would mave the camera in 1st and 3rd person. The Z button would put you in 1st person and the X button would still put you in the morph ball. The A and R button would both be your fire button. The L button would still lock on. B would still jump. Start would bring you to your map and weapons etc. The plus pad would be a quick switch for both visors (up and down) and weapons (left and right). They could have some kind of icon on the HUD ala Super Metroid.
Ah geez, I love these "yo, yo, yo, Old Skool" players. Did you honestly expect gaming to remain in the 2D realm forever? As gaming shifts towards immersive 3D, so too will its popular genres because, frankly, it's what the majority of the people playing games out there expect. Sure, everyone likes abit of nostalgia now and then, but you know what, Nintendo put out Metroid Prime and Metroid Zero Mission, and I'd say that's a bigger trip down memory lane then alot of franchises are providing. Hell, Nintendo has given fans alot of SNES-era fan service via the Gamecube and GBA.
Metroid Prime and (lord how I'm hoping) Prime 2 both take on the key aspect of the series which is, by the way, exploration and not what 'dimension' it's in. Oh, and calling Metroid Prime a first person shooter with the Metroid name attached is like saying Super Metroid was a Mario Bros. clone. If that analogy sounds stupid, well, dwell on it abit. Look, I loved Super Metroid probably as much as you did, and I can understand you wanting to relive that experience time and time again in a new Metroid game, but maybe your disappointment stems not so much from the fact that games are getting more modern, but rather that you, and gaming, are just growing up. It happens. I'd say games like Metroid Prime show that there IS hope...
Metroid Prime and (lord how I'm hoping) Prime 2 both take on the key aspect of the series which is, by the way, exploration and not what 'dimension' it's in. Oh, and calling Metroid Prime a first person shooter with the Metroid name attached is like saying Super Metroid was a Mario Bros. clone. If that analogy sounds stupid, well, dwell on it abit. Look, I loved Super Metroid probably as much as you did, and I can understand you wanting to relive that experience time and time again in a new Metroid game, but maybe your disappointment stems not so much from the fact that games are getting more modern, but rather that you, and gaming, are just growing up. It happens. I'd say games like Metroid Prime show that there IS hope...
TekunoRobby
Tag of Excellence
I was about to say Metroid needs more trolls but nope I see it's already taken care of.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
Sorry, I guess my post wasn't very clear. I meant Smilebit could probably do a good Metroid too (w/Nintendo's help of course). The reason I put the pick of Gunvalkyrie up was show it's similarities to MP and to use as an example of what a third person Metroid game might look like.
In regaurd to Sega, I just started getting into them, and I can see why people are pissed they went third party. I haven't played any Sega games since Genesis, but they've put out a lot of good games this gen. Sonic Team, Smilebit, Amuzement Vision and AM2 are all very talented development houses and would have brought a different audience to GC had Nintendo secured Sega. Not only that, but the Sega fans would find all of their games on one system. If Nintendo would have kept Rare and bought Sega (or at least made them second party) they wouldn't need third parties. It would have put them in a better position considering the situation they're in.
In regaurd to Sega, I just started getting into them, and I can see why people are pissed they went third party. I haven't played any Sega games since Genesis, but they've put out a lot of good games this gen. Sonic Team, Smilebit, Amuzement Vision and AM2 are all very talented development houses and would have brought a different audience to GC had Nintendo secured Sega. Not only that, but the Sega fans would find all of their games on one system. If Nintendo would have kept Rare and bought Sega (or at least made them second party) they wouldn't need third parties. It would have put them in a better position considering the situation they're in.