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[midnightAI]

It was a pivot because it was a completely separate argument and topic? Again though since you’re coming back to it, dev times have been long for quite awhile now dude

And no, again, strawmanning the exact opposite of what I’m saying, (actually kind of impressive to do twice in a row) my argument was, you said that people will be “angry” if they announce too early right? I’m saying no they won’t, that’s not going to affect sales, just announce it early like you used to

Well, for me personally, this Astro Bot journey has been amazing, from the reveal to playing this gem within 4 months has been an excellent experience, MUCH better than announcing a game with CGI and still not able to play it 2 years later.

Fuck early announcements, it's a shit way of doing it, always has been, always will be.

 

[gerth666]

I always get firewalk and firesprite mixed up. I'm interested in seeing what that new team that has the ex bungie and cod people in it

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I always get firewalk and firesprite mixed up. I'm interested in seeing what that new team that has the ex bungie and cod people in it

You're thinking of deviation games, which closed down.

 

[midnightAI]

Dunno why some think Bend and Firesprite are in danger. Bend are working on new stuff as well as being one of Sonys best support studios. Firesprite are working on a new game and it wasn't that long ago they released Horizon:Call of the Mountain (which is still the best PSVR2 title available, not their fault PSVR2 isn't doing as well as expected)

 

[gerth666]

You're thinking of deviation games, which closed down.

Ah okay. That's disappointing, I would've imagined they were working on a FPS game. I think playstation needs something like that in their portfolio

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Dunno why some think Bend and Firesprite are in danger. Bend are working on new stuff as well as being one of Sonys best support studios. Firesprite are working on a new game and it wasn't that long ago they released Horizon:Call of the Mountain (which is still the best PSVR2 title available, not their fault PSVR2 isn't doing as well as expected)

Totoki named dual CEOs at SIE. This is probably not a long term situation. Hulst and Nishino are competing for the big job unless they both hit grand slams.

Hulst needs to deliver on high margins and consistency.

The PS5 Pro is 700 dollars because Nishino needs to deliver margins to Totoki.

Hulst doesn't have the leeway to be Matt Booty. He'll be out on his ass quickly if Sony has too many bombs. Firesprite had to cancel a major project and had massive layoffs. You can tell from their glassdoor reviews that the internal culture is trash and getting worse. That's reflected internally and externally.

Bend has fired/departed two of its design directors in the span of 4 years. That's not a great look. They have NOTHING to show since Day's Gone released.

Both studios are absolutely in danger.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Ah okay. That's disappointing, I would've imagined they were working on a FPS game. I think playstation needs something like that in their portfolio

Blundell who co-founded Deviation Games is rumored to be leading an internal SIE studio and making a game. Given his pedigree, it's likely a FPS.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Good list OP.

Naughty Dog - they're currently working on a new IP under Neil, so that should be their next release. It stands to reason that TLOU Part 3 is in pre-production and will move to full production some time after the new IP ships. I do also suspect Naughty Dog brought the new Uncharted game back in-house once Bend was taken off of it back in early 2021, or at least they're partnering with someone else (ie. VASG) on it

Other studios not on your list:

Haven - working on Fairgame$

Polyphony - likely working on GT8

Asobi - just released Astro Bot. One would hope they're working on a remake of Astro Bot Rescue Mission for PSVR2. Beyond that, it's anyones guess. Hopefully the studio does decide to grow a bit so they can become multi-project

Neon Koi - mobile studio working on a live service game of some sort

Bungie - Continuing to support Destiny 2 while working on Marathon

New studio split off from Bungie - working on Project Gummy Bear, formerly a Bungie project

Firewalk - released Concord which was pulled. TBD what will happen with Concord and the studio going forward.


And for the heck of it, I'll just quote The Great List of viv, which illustrates how I think the next 5 years will play out for Sony from SIE published content and third party console exclusives (timed or otherwise). The disclaimer at the top breaks down the sort of items in the list

Looking at that list of upcoming projects makes the whining about the Gaas-strategy so petty.

Long list btw, no idea what people are complaining about.

 

[Esppiral]

Us gamers don't like it, but Sony has a different approach to marketing these days.

They announced Astro Bot just 4 months ago. And it has about a 60-65% chance of winning GOTY this year.

Until Dawn is coming out in less than a month (though it will probably under perform based on the layoffs and the lack of advertising for the game).

Then there is also Lego Horizon Adventure coming out Q4.

I think we'll see a state of play next week featuring games like Silent Hill 2, Metal Gear Solid Delta, Dragon Age, Dragon Ball Sparking, Assassin's Creed Shadows, and maybe Metaphor.

Many of these will feature at TGS.

At TGS I think we COULD potentially see Ghost of Tsushima 2 revealed.

Sony likely will do some sort of showcase by the end of the year, but it is also tricky to coordinate projects across studios across multiple years, while not distracting teams from doing the work to get games out as soon as possible. Just look at the process Naughty Dog went through on getting a reel out for TLOU2...

Why do you list third party games? This is about PlayStation studios games, and they are worrying lacking.

 

[gerth666]

Totoki named dual CEOs at SIE. This is probably not a long term situation. Hulst and Nishino are competing for the big job unless they both hit grand slams.

Hulst needs to deliver on high margins and consistency.

The PS5 Pro is 700 dollars because Nishino needs to deliver margins to Totoki.

Hulst doesn't have the leeway to be Matt Booty. He'll be out on his ass quickly if Sony has too many bombs. Firesprite had to cancel a major project and had massive layoffs. You can tell from their glassdoor reviews that the internal culture is trash and getting worse. That's reflected internally and externally.

Bend has fired/departed two of its design directors in the span of 4 years. That's not a great look. They have NOTHING to show since Day's Gone released.

Both studios are absolutely in danger.

Do you think that now with the success of astro bot, Sony will now pivet into making more smaller games released in a timely fashion? I've always been of the opinion they need to get back to AA games, stuff that comes out to fill in gaps between the big games. This will keep alot of these studios productive

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Why do you list third party games? This is about PlayStation studios games, and they are worrying lacking.

3rd party games are part of Sony's marketing strategy. They don't have enough studios or games or budget to promote their business solely on their own games. That's just a reality.

Sony has a lot of talented studios and they're also dealing with what everyone else is

A) Gen Z
B) Remote Work
C) Increasing wages


There is an extreme battle between increased wages for senior talent and bringing in young people most likely contractors to work on games. Gen Z has potentially the worst work ethic we've ever seen in a generation made 1000x worse by remote work.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Do you think that now with the success of astro bot, Sony will now pivet into making more smaller games released in a timely fashion? I've always been of the opinion they need to get back to AA games, stuff that comes out to fill in gaps between the big games. This will keep alot of these studios productive

Sales for Astro Bot remain to be seen.

Those smaller games are hard to market. They cannot do multi million $ campaigns for them.

Best way would be to use gamepass style model but that would cannibalise their AAA day 1 sales.

 

[SyedDanishAnwar]

The majority of what these studios are working on will be cross gen don’t see it hitting until 2027 a lot of it.

Sony Studios is shooting at its foot with a focus on multi-platform. I for one don't see any reason to be attached to the PS ecosystem, esp. when future consoles are going to be $800+.
PC gaming is the future for me.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Do you think that now with the success of astro bot, Sony will now pivet into making more smaller games released in a timely fashion? I've always been of the opinion they need to get back to AA games, stuff that comes out to fill in gaps between the big games. This will keep alot of these studios productive

Totoki will certainly like the "idea" of that, but it's harder in execution.

When Jim Ryan left he had some stark warnings for SIE that they still needed to ensure they were putting sufficient budget towards making the best games. Despite what people think of Jim Ryan, that should worry most.

It's really easy to learn the wrong lessons from success.

First we don't know how well Astro Bot has even sold. Second, we don't know how easy it is to replicate the success of Astro Bot. Third, team structures at studios aren't easily reshaped. Four, projects are ongoing, it can take years for companies to pivot around new strategies and these are all largely independent studios.

A couple of years ago, everyone was supposed to learn from Elden Ring, now we're learning from Astro Bot?

This is the kind of whiplash that employees will largely complain about in terms of leaders not having a vision and changing things on a dime.

I made a post about what I personally think Sony should do and I hope they're largely doing it. Balancing remakes, reboots, sequels, original IP, experimental titles, GaaS, PC/Mobile games... they have their work cut out for them, but if they do things properly they should be able to grow organically.

Santa Monica for example should be working on original IP while a team works on remaking God of War 1 with the new engine. The studio should be large enough to support both games. If the remake is successful, you now have the ability to do remakes of 2 and 3, while the main team either continues the new IP or shifts to a sequel to Ragnarok, maybe in a new mythology.

 

[Cakeboxer]

 

[SyedDanishAnwar]

3rd party games are part of Sony's marketing strategy. They don't have enough studios or games or budget to promote their business solely on their own games. That's just a reality.

Sony has a lot of talented studios and they're also dealing with what everyone else is

A) Gen Z
B) Remote Work
C) Increasing wages


There is an extreme battle between increased wages for senior talent and bringing in young people most likely contractors to work on games. Gen Z has potentially the worst work ethic we've ever seen in a generation made 1000x worse by remote work.

That's a bit rude don't you think.
Where is proof that Gen Z have worse work ethic??

I once saw my little brother (14 years younger than me) working at home (remote work) when he came back home for his marriage a few months back (He lives in Houston, Texas). And man he has a work ethic even more strict than mine with almost no break, and working 8 hours straight guled to his PC every day.

In contrast, I - a millennial - hop between work, NeoGaf, some YouTube videos, then work, again NeoGaf, Twitter feeds, and then back to work. I also tend to play Elden Ring in between work if the work load is less.

 

[bitbydeath]

Bend has fired/departed two of its design directors in the span of 4 years. That's not a great look. They have NOTHING to show since Day's Gone released.

Bend are one of their top studios, they’re working on two AAA games, many other studios aren’t that lucky. They’re also getting a movie.

 

[gerth666]

Totoki will certainly like the "idea" of that, but it's harder in execution.

When Jim Ryan left he had some stark warnings for SIE that they still needed to ensure they were putting sufficient budget towards making the best games. Despite what people think of Jim Ryan, that should worry most.

It's really easy to learn the wrong lessons from success.

First we don't know how well Astro Bot has even sold. Second, we don't know how easy it is to replicate the success of Astro Bot. Third, team structures at studios aren't easily reshaped. Four, projects are ongoing, it can take years for companies to pivot around new strategies and these are all largely independent studios.

A couple of years ago, everyone was supposed to learn from Elden Ring, now we're learning from Astro Bot?

This is the kind of whiplash that employees will largely complain about in terms of leaders not having a vision and changing things on a dime.

I made a post about what I personally think Sony should do and I hope they're largely doing it. Balancing remakes, reboots, sequels, original IP, experimental titles, GaaS, PC/Mobile games... they have their work cut out for them, but if they do things properly they should be able to grow organically.

Santa Monica for example should be working on original IP while a team works on remaking God of War 1 with the new engine. The studio should be large enough to support both games. If the remake is successful, you now have the ability to do remakes of 2 and 3, while the main team either continues the new IP or shifts to a sequel to Ragnarok, maybe in a new mythology.

You always provide good reading material mate, enjoy reading your posts, great analysis

 

[RyRy93]

There’ll be some good games amongst these but it doesn’t look like Sony will be releasing anything to get really hyped about for at least a few years, can’t believe that so many of these studios haven’t released anything concrete about their next project for years

 

[gerth666]

Sales for Astro Bot remain to be seen.

Those smaller games are hard to market. They cannot do multi million $ campaigns for them.

Best way would be to use gamepass style model but that would cannibalise their AAA day 1 sales.

I think astro bot will easily make back what it cost in production, and more. For me the main advantage of making smaller games with high quality is it pads out your release schedule, bringing a prestige and excitement to your brand. You could have made a couple of Astros for what it cost a concord for e.g, and there's less risk

 

[Mibu no ookami]

That's a bit rude don't you think.
Where is proof that Gen Z have worse work ethic??

I once saw my little brother (14 years younger than me) working at home (remote work) when he came back home for his marriage a few months back (He lives in Houston, Texas). And man he has a work ethic even more strict than mine with almost no break, and working 8 hours straight guled to his PC every day.

In contrast, I - a millennial - hop between work, NeoGaf, some YouTube videos, then work, again NeoGaf, Twitter feeds, and then back to work. I also tend to play Elden Ring in between work if the work load is less.

I'm not saying every single individual in Gen Z has no work ethic. Some are obviously fantastic. One of my favorite employees of all time is Gen Z. But by and large as a group, there is no work ethic. They don't want to work long hours, they don't see the bigger picture. They love to complain and they aren't receptive to feedback. Their production flatlines when they work remotely. And they let their political ideology get in the way of their work.

Younger millennials aren't great either.

They think they're in a equal relationship with leadership, if anything, they think they are in charge and when reality hits them, they're quick to explode. We saw this famously with the whole Sam Maggs situation at the time you could tell SEVERAL employees backed her and they're all inherently toxic employees. All it takes is one toxic employee to destroy a team, but when you have several... your company culture shifts from being about work ethic and becomes about club med and bizarre politics.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I think astro bot will easily make back what it cost in production, and more. For me the main advantage of making smaller games with high quality is it pads out your release schedule, bringing a prestige and excitement to your brand. You could have made a couple of Astros for what it cost a concord for e.g, and there's less risk

You diversify risk, but you're actually increasing your exposure.

Games are constantly in competition with each other.

If you release 12 games in a year, not only are they in competition with every other game on the market, but they're also in competition with each other.

One problem the industry already has is too many games and players don't have enough time to play everything.

It's an issue that almost exactly mirrors Hollywood and big blockbuster movies. Sure if you have an A24 hit on your hands, it's great, but most of these small titles fail to generate enough buzz to sell. Look at Alan Wake 2.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I think astro bot will easily make back what it cost in production, and more. For me the main advantage of making smaller games with high quality is it pads out your release schedule, bringing a prestige and excitement to your brand. You could have made a couple of Astros for what it cost a concord for e.g, and there's less risk

Of course it will make its investment back.

But think about Astro Bot 2. They would have run out of ips and excitement wont be the same.

A lot of these mid sized games are unable to hit big.

This is an issue cause they still need to sell 1 million minimum to break even. Which is a substantial amount without hype and simply word of mouth.

 

[midnightAI]

Totoki named dual CEOs at SIE. This is probably not a long term situation. Hulst and Nishino are competing for the big job unless they both hit grand slams.

Hulst needs to deliver on high margins and consistency.

The PS5 Pro is 700 dollars because Nishino needs to deliver margins to Totoki.

Hulst doesn't have the leeway to be Matt Booty. He'll be out on his ass quickly if Sony has too many bombs. Firesprite had to cancel a major project and had massive layoffs. You can tell from their glassdoor reviews that the internal culture is trash and getting worse. That's reflected internally and externally.

Bend has fired/departed two of its design directors in the span of 4 years. That's not a great look. They have NOTHING to show since Day's Gone released.

Both studios are absolutely in danger.

You do know that Bend had the majority of the studio helping out both Naughty Dog and SSM don't you?

Bend are much better off without John Garvin and Jeff Ross, their comments since leaving Bend (pushed?) are very toxic.

Majority of Sonys studios had layoffs, it's nothing unusual and you certainly can't equate that to studios being in trouble/closing down. The only ones in trouble currently are Firewalk (in my opinion)

 

[Hudo]

Well, I can tell you that none of them are working on Motorstorm or Wipeout.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Well, I can tell you that none of them are working on Motorstorm or Wipeout.

Who would you have work on these?

 

[Hudo]

Who would you have work on these?

None of them, tbh. I'd outsource both games to studios/devs that actually know what to do. Maybe work out a deal with Bugbear to make a new Motorstorm. And Wipeout... I honestly don't know who could do it. Maybe Sony need to re-establish Psygnosis and get the people back...

Edit: Maybe Criterion Games could try their hands on Wipeout? Sony would need to make a deal with EA, obviously.

 

[nnytk]

They're almost certainly working on the free DLC they've discussed.

Right, but I mean, something more substantial than a few new characters to find. I can imagine they're already working on an Astroboy sequel or spin-off?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

None of them, tbh. I'd outsource both games to studios/devs that actually know what to do. Maybe work out a deal with Bugbear to make a new Motorstorm. And Wipeout... I honestly don't know who could do it. Maybe Sony need to re-establish Psygnosis and get the people back...

Edit: Maybe Criterion Games could try their hands on Wipeout? Sony would need to make a deal with EA, obviously.

Bugbear isn't a great developer and why would EA want Criterion working on Wipeout rather than the licensed games they're paying for?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Right, but I mean, something more substantial than a few new characters to find. I can imagine they're already working on an Astroboy sequel or spin-off?

There's no chance. Even a small DLC will probably take most of the team. They're probably in early phases at best for a sequel.

 

[GymWolf]

Curious to see if bend lost all of its talents with the seniors going away and if they become as woke as insomniac, they were definitely the most chad dev studio owned by sony

 

[Beechos]

Sounding like a wait till next year moment again Ala microsoft.

 

[FUBARx89]

Curious to see if bend lost all of its talents with the seniors going away and if they become as woke as insomniac, they were definitely the most chad dev studio owned by sony

If they're crying little bitches on Twitter like the Days Gone director was, it's no great loss.

 

[GymWolf]

If they're crying little bitches on Twitter like the Days Gone director was, it's no great loss.

I take salty little bitches that can make good games with no woke shit over the alternative every day of the week.

 

[Ridicululzz]

Hoping we get some teases for some of these by the end of the year.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Firesprite? how do you think their next game is going to turn out guys? Be honest.

 

[Hudo]

Bugbear isn't a great developer and why would EA want Criterion working on Wipeout rather than the licensed games they're paying for?

Alright. Who would you choose to make a Motorstorm or Wipeout game?

 

[GymWolf]

Firesprite? how do you think their next game is going to turn out guys? Be honest.

Never judge a book from the cover.

The cover:

Spoiler

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

A pathetic state of affairs, true reflection of the person in charge, the type of man who drinks coffee from a mug with "I'm the fucking CEO" printed on it.


Bend Studio is soon to be broken, you can bet on it. I can foresee Gavin's crazy laughter when his ex-colleagues show their "non-Days Gone" new game to the world. It will get a cold reception from fans, making some devs call them names which will arouse further backlash. In the end, the game will flop and the studio "restructured".

 

[Luipadre]

Wake me up when they starting to release games

 

[Luipadre]

Firesprite? how do you think their next game is going to turn out guys? Be honest.

 

[StereoVsn]

I am so ambivalent about Sony products these days. About the only one I am looking forward to is Ghost of Tsushima. Plus FFVIIR 3 from SE as 3rd party exclusive. Astrobot is great of course as well.

Everything else is either games for modern audiences full of modern messaging or complete unknowns.

 

[nial]

Astro Bot (THE GOTY) was literally announced 3 months ago and you people still can't learn anything?

 

[nial]

You forgot XDEV America (Helldivers 2), XDEV Europe (Until Dawn) and XDEV Japan (Rise of the Ronin), OP.

 

[bellome]

None of them, tbh. I'd outsource both games to studios/devs that actually know what to do. Maybe work out a deal with Bugbear to make a new Motorstorm. And Wipeout... I honestly don't know who could do it. Maybe Sony need to re-establish Psygnosis and get the people back...

Edit: Maybe Criterion Games could try their hands on Wipeout? Sony would need to make a deal with EA, obviously.

34BigThings could be the right choice, they develop Redout.

 

[DonF]

Sony changed their approach to release info on new games. They dont announce anything unless its going to release in a year or less. I like this. I dont like the 2,3 year cycle of hype. its tiresome.

 

[CherryFalls]

Eh, some cool stuff but nothing that's really getting me that excited

 

[Hudo]

34BigThings could be the right choice, the develop Redout.

Yeah, I can see that.

 

[arkhamguy123]

Curious to see if bend lost all of its talents with the seniors going away and if they become as woke as insomniac, they were definitely the most chad dev studio owned by sony

They were yes, but expect them to conform to wokeness like ND and insomniac. The new employees on Twitter give you an idea

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Optimism: The Thread

How so?

Most of the OP is Sony's known owned studios are rumoured to be working on a new game. Where is the optimism in that?

How isn't this just blindingly obvious? Unless you think that Sony has secretly shutdown all their FP studios and laid off all the staff because Concord failed? I think that would be tantamount to conspiracy theory and/or batshit lunacy... no?