What was Squaresoft thinking with the battle system in Final Fantasy IX?

Aeriscloud said:
The worst part is Amarant, he might be the worst thing in the series.


He's erased entirely by the awesomeness that is Freya though.
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People only dislike Amarant because they barely developed his character, he was still a great party member. I liked him way better than Freya.

Also, FFIX's gameplay is so much better than whatever the hell VIII's was. So much easier to just pick up and play without all the unnecessary bullshit of junctioning and whatnot.
 
I tended to gloss over the kinda slow ATB because the battle music was so enjoyable but I say that battles do go a bit slowly in IX compared to the other games.
 
FFIX's battle system was such a huge catastrophe that it's almost singlehandedly the reason that Square(/Square-Enix) started experimenting so heavily with faster battle systems in FFX, FFX-2, and FFXII. All of which play a hell of a lot better than the PSX FFs.
 
badcrumble said:
FFIX's battle system was such a huge catastrophe that it's almost singlehandedly the reason that Square(/Square-Enix) started experimenting so heavily with faster battle systems in FFX, FFX-2, and FFXII. All of which play a hell of a lot better than the PSX FFs.
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Well, FFIX and FFX were released a year apart and were in development at the same time, so I sorta doubt that the former was the reason for the latter's battle system.
 
Kaisos said:
Well, FFIX and FFX were released a year apart and were in development at the same time, so I sorta doubt that the former was the reason for the latter's battle system.
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I'm thinking the FFX team played early builds of FFIX and were like "haha this battle system completely blows ass let's not do this"
 
The battle system was fine overall, the slowness was deliberate I felt. While potentially a design choice, it really did drag. Battle speed felt like the weakest part of the game in my honest opinion (other than Zidane's character design.) Even notching up the ATB speed in the options didn't help too much.

What was Squaresoft thinking? Honestly, I think they made a slower paced battle system (When compared to the previous PSone FF games) to help emphasize and establish each character, ground them through their animations. For example, some characters did not even have a victory pose till significant story events occur. You don't see Steiner chuckle victoriously with his sword proudly held high till later in the story. Square also made each character emote so damn well in combat. The way Eiko twirls her flute before casting a spell, or how Vivi swirls his staff before casting spells are visual flourishes that help ground the characters, are really fun to watch, all looked super cool, but wasted time. All those tiny animations added up to make each character feel more alive, yet slowed the battles down. But hey, that's just what I think they were going for, I didn't make the game. Still love it even though the battle system was kinda slow.
 
They were pushing the limits of the Playstation and thus had longer load times before each battle, and you didn't like Trance?

That's the entirety of the complaint?

I thought you'd be saying stuff like "Vivi's magic sucks and isn't powerful enough" or "none of the characters gain enough MP throughout the game to use their abilities effectively" or " skill equip system was really unbalanced."

You didn't really criticize the battle system though? To the extent that one would ask "what were they thinking."

Because the battle system is actually one of the best in the series.
 
The pan at the start I'd assume to be a loading masking thing. The only actual design decision I really dislike is trance, having control over when to actually use it would be much better.

I enjoyed the equipment-based character ability/progression system, as it makes equipment selection less of a no-brainer. But on the whole, character progression/power seemed imbalanced across party members.
 
FF9's battle speed is such a huge black spot on an otherwise perfect game. I'd love for a remake/remaster that fixes only that.
badcrumble said:
I'm thinking the FFX team played early builds of FFIX and were like "haha this battle system completely blows ass let's not do this"
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as long as it supports your "argument" i guess
 
I still feel like VIII had the best gameplay of them all. IX's literal only handicap is it being so freaking slow. Especially when you are trying to steal for hours to get the cool item of the hour. Aside from that, IX is the best PS1 Final Fantasy.
 
nckillthegrimace said:
I think you can turn off or shorten the summoning animations, but, yeah, it's a slow game. It's still the best Final Fantasy, though. Chocobo Hot and Cold, the music, the characters--all fantastic.
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There is a passive ability you can learn that will ALWAYS have animations play and make summons deal more damage.
I don't think you could skip them in 9 but you could in 8?
 
Tizoc said:
There is a passive ability you can learn that will ALWAYS have animations play and make summons deal more damage.
I don't think you could skip them in 9 but you could in 8?
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You couldn't in 8 either, but you had the Boost ability to give you something to do during them.
 
I don't see anything wrong with the battle system in IX. I agree that Trance could be better, but I disagree to the highest level that summons are useless in IX. If you want a game that they really are then look at XII where summons die from a few hits before they can even do anything. They provide Garnet and Eiko to provide substantial damage in the game. Madeen is an all enemies Holy, Ark is straight devastating, Bahamut is good for enemies with that absorb elements, Atomos cuts down enemies with large chunks of health, and Phoenix revives the dead while also dealing damage.
 
FFIX was far from perfect.

Vivi is the best character I've ever seen in a Final Fantasy game..and maybe even any RPG..But Quina was terrible, Eiko was annoying, Amarant was nothing..seriously..he's nothing..he's salty over
some minor bullshit Zidane did years ago and it defines the rest of his fucking life
, Freya was awesome..then halfway through they decide to just drop her character development.

The skill system was awful.."Awesome, I just got a killer new weapon..I'll hold off equipping it for 5 more hours though until I get these necessary skills learnt.".

Trance is bullshit, kill a few extra enemies to get it ready for a boss fight..then because of how frequent the random battles are you lose it 2 steps from when the boss triggers.

Dagger's
Muted bullshit lasted way too long making he completely useless, and my hatred for Eiko meant I never levelled her
.
 
At one point I considered IX my favorite in the series but I find it basically unplayable now. The slow ass battles and long loading times completely ruin the experience.

If any game in the series needs a remaster its IX.
 
I don't really have any strong feelings either way about IX's battle system. It's slow, but I didn't even notice the first time I played it, and even now it's not slow enough to significantly hurt the overall experience for me. Trance is kind of lame, but that's not really a big deal for me. If I recall correctly, summon animations are shorter on average than VII's, and still not as useless as XII's summons.

I don't have a problem with the abilities system. Learning them from equipment isn't particularly bothersome or grind inducing, and I like the system for choosing abilities. Still, the reasons I like IX the most don't really have much to do with the battle system itself. It's the framing around the battle system that I enjoy the most. Which is probably true of most of the RPGs I play.
 
I quit FF IX and never completed another one after that. I just remember the random battles going off so frequently that I couldn't explore any area without a battle every two steps. I remember persevering through this in III/VI because the game was just too good... but of course, getting that moogle charm later was the greatest thing ever, since equipping it made you immune to the random battles.
 
I have a very good memory so I usually remember lots of details about the games I enjoy. I hated FFVIII so much I hacked the game with a gameshark, that I bought many years later, specifically so I could finish this game. I gave myself 255 ultima in every slot so I could finish it. However, the game would have none of that and said "no, no, fuck you, you will suffer". It decided to level up all the mobs to max level and their speed was so high they could double turn me while I selected commands. Yhey also had over 9999 hps so I couldn't 1 shot anything. Only game that really made me rage.

FFIX is different because it is so mediocre. It's not bad, which is a plus coming from FFVIII, but it's not good either. It was also super easy because I spent most boss battles waiting until Zidane could finish stealing so I could kill it. I don't remember anything else from the game. I didn't recognize the last boss at first when I played Dissidia. I also didn't like the character design which might affect my impression.

The last Final Fantasy I enjoyed was FFVII but I also enjoyed the blitzball from FFX.
 
Savantcore said:
Final Fantasy IX is perfect.
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Lol. No.

The battles are painfully slow. Trance is perhaps the worst implementation of a "Limit break" like system in the whole franchise. The game's story is too much of a retread of FFVII's story with clones & identity crises & the life force of the planet. Much like a lot of other FFs, FFIX is too easy and for much of the game doesn't provide any kind of challenge. A few of the main cast are completely worthless or annoying (if Square Enix ever fully remade FFIX, I'd hope they ditched Eiko, Quina and Amarant and gave us Beatrix as one of the playable characters instead). Steiner is too much of a comic releaf character. The final boss is fucking dumb.


And what was wrong with Squaresoft & IX's battlesystem has a lot to do with PS1's hardware. They tried to do too much and PS1 just couldn't handle it and that screwed it forever. I'd almost hope that if Square Enix ever re-releases FFIX on any new platform as anything else than an emulated PS1 Classic that they'd put Ito to do with the battle system what he meant to do all those years ago FFIX was released. Leave the rest mostly as it is but do something to that battlesystem so that it doesn't almost ruin the whole game.
 
Kain said:
Yes.

Everything in that game is so good I always forget how slow the battles are, which they undoubtedly are.

I do miss no encounters though, that shit was awesome and I had a lot of fun with VIII's systems.
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Yep, totally this.
I won't even notice there is slow battle issue in FFIX if I'm not reading people's comments on the Internet.
It's my favorit FF on PSX era.
 
Just finish FFIX in the last month and I agree with the OP. Trance was useless and the battles take way too long to load. It's especially noticeable when I was trying to kill grand dragons for levels and despite only needing to do one hit to kill them the load times made it an unpleasant experience.
 
Yes, it's slower than the other games but first: you tune up the speed of the battles to the max, and second (although you can't do this from the start): you equip a Haste crystal on every character. There you go, faster battles.
 
MegaSackman said:
Yes, it's slower than the other games but first: you tune up the speed of the battles to the max, and second (although you can't do this from the start): you equip a Haste crystal on every character. There you go, faster battles.
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This doesnt actually make it that much more bearable to be honest.
 
Ezalc said:
People only dislike Amarant because they barely developed his character, he was still a great party member. I liked him way better than Freya.
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I like Freya more myself but Amarant is that token "cool" character and he's a very enjoyable party member, he still chimes in enough to warrant the lack of development. Like when he says to Eiko "Shut up, brat." at the Iifa tree or his whole speech to Maliris. It's just so good.

FF IX's battle system is indeed the worst thing about the game but it's still my favourite game, every game has flaws and that's definitely the weak point.
 
It's a bit vanilla, but I think it was the right move. FF8's battlesystem seemed to have more dislikes than likes, and playing it traditional fit in more with the throwback theme to the older games that FF9 was rocking. It's definitely a bit slow though, but I wonder if the long pans and rotations were trying to mask load times. The trance system was a missed opportunity. I don't think its current form would be a huge issue if it wasn't for the fact that their older implementations of similar systems were more convenient and useful. Being able to store and choose when to unleash it would have made it a lot nicer.

I like the ability system though. If you're not a grind-minded person, which I assume the average player is, you'll have to make conscious decisions between stats, temporary abilities or trying to permanently learn abilities. Managing my equipment became pretty important and making different choices spiced up replays.
 
Savantcore said:
Final Fantasy IX is perfect.
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No, it is not, but in the end I still think it is the best FF.

Best protagonist (one of the few likable in the series), lots of variety in the main cast, amazing music, great villain (Kuja), great world, etc.

The battle system? It could have been better, that is for sure.
 
i remember seeing early concept art that included characters having jobs and those jobs looking different depending on what element or summon they were connected to. i wonder what the plan was with that?
 
Speaking of battles, 9 has what I consider the best boss theme in the series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2KUqxUb5Ro It is been ages since I last played 9, but to this day I still listen to the linked music track in a regular basis.

Also, I don't get the criticism about the damage cap. I always thought silly how the attacks took 99999 damage from enemies.
 
Replayed FFIX earlier this year. Really forgot how slow the battles were. Not just the ATB, but also the camera pan (which I presume is hiding loading times) but also how slow the animations where. I do kind of hope there's a PC port that fixes the speed issues (although the animation part will be hard to speed up without it being silly).

It's a shame since I like the world of FFIX as well as the characters, themes and music (and the story despite it going off the rails so suddenly in Disc 3). But the battle system hurts it bad.
 
I couldn't make it through the game to the end because of the battle system. I don't know how they couldn't realize that the battle speed was unacceptable.

It also has the most annoying battle music in the series. I can't take those drums. It makes it very repetitive. It's the same sound over and over. I know most would disagree with me but FF9 is the only soundtrack in the series I was disappointed with. There's only a handful of songs I really like from FF9.
 
I agree with Duckroll about FFVIII being a far more interesting and experimental title than IX. Personally, I really enjoyed the micro-management aspect of its battle systems because ultimately what it allowed was for you to switch between distinct "modes" in battle.

For example, the least (obviously) interesting part was the "farm" mode where you'd enter a new area, meet a new enemy type and sytematically draw off as much magic as possible then move it to an appropriate stockpile to leverage a particular trait or ability.

The regular "fight" mode basically imvolved the player in making a decision as to whether they wished to fight using primarily physical or non-magic consuming abilities so as to conserve power, or whether to tactically expend magic (weakening their build in the process) for a quicker victory.

Finally there was what is probably best described as all-out "zerg" mode, which involved using purely the most powerful abilities to defeat enemies as fast as possible. Typically this would involve abusing Aura and Meltdown magic (2 of the most efficient spell types for raising most any stat) to keep the character in perpetual limit break mode.

This is a pretty cool system to me as it gives the player maximum control at all times, and was I feel super-rewarding especially once you'd spead your GF's smartly and had levelled them sufficiently to access the various "refine" abilities. This combined with the "zerg" mode would, for instance, allow Irvine to take out the end boss lightning fast with repeated volleys of LB'd pulse ammo, each shot hitting for max damage.

Coming from that experience, FFIX felt sadly dull and uninteresting to me, even disregarding the general sluggishness of the entire battle "clock" it was a real step down imho.

Add on top of that my preference for practically every other aspect of FFVIII over IX and its no suprise that the former title remains one of my favourite JRPG's ever, whilst IX I can't honestly say I even like, despite playing it through to completion at least twice. (JP and US import versions).
 
Khrno said:
The only wrong thing about IX are the loading times due to the PS1, that's the game that most needs a port to anything, the only one from ! to X that hasn't gotten it.
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Pretty much.

I got through the whole game without thinking about it too much, but I couldn't replay it now since I've heard so much negative conversation about the battle speed, I would be too conscious of it now.

It would be great if the game could get a PC/PS4 release. I think the game deserves more credit, and conversation about it is always sidetracked by complaints about the battle speed (which is a valid complaint, but the game is so much more than slow battles).
 
I support this thread.

FFIX is my favorite, best characters, best story, and best setting of the entire series. The battle system is fucking garbage. Mostly because it. is. so. slow.

It's unplayable to me now.
 
It could have used a bit more time in development and the trance mechanic and battle speed are definite weak spots, but overall the whole package is still one of my favorite Final Fantasy games.
 
Reila said:
Speaking of battles, 9 has what I consider the best boss theme in the series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2KUqxUb5Ro It is been ages since I last played 9, but to this day I still listen to the linked music track in a regular basis.

Also, I don't get the criticism about the damage cap. I always thought silly how the attacks took 99999 damage from enemies.
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I actually thought the boss battle theme was kinda weak. The regular battle theme far outshine the boss counterpart.

Interestingly, FFVI was the opposite. Regular battle theme was okay, but boss battle theme was amazing.
 
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