What's influencing bad game development right now? Is it still Covid or is it work from home? Or something else?
- Thread starter Spyxos
- Start date
BoilersFan23
Member
Seriously, woke has nothing to do with it. Anyone who uses that word proves that they have poor education which comes from states who elect bad govenors. Diversity is amazing because it brings in lots of different perspectives into games.
The issue comes down to corporate greed. Too many corporations are trying to cut corners in costs and push their workers too much in a bad way making everyone want to leave/not be motivated to work for them. Pay the employees well and treat them well, then you get the best stuff done.
The issue comes down to corporate greed. Too many corporations are trying to cut corners in costs and push their workers too much in a bad way making everyone want to leave/not be motivated to work for them. Pay the employees well and treat them well, then you get the best stuff done.
deriks
4-Time GIF/Meme God
A mix with bad production, that leads to bad direction, and bad publishers wanting the game to release before it is ready
There's a reason why Nintendo mostly launches a game and that's it. You could have Mario Kart 8 with no patches and works fine. Sony games are a weird thing nowadays because a lot of them have engines from the past, so they schedule well and have some patches later depending of the developer. Microsoft needs to get their shit together because they fuck up in a lot of games even at pre production - where the fuck is Hellblade 2? Why Halo Infinite is infinite the of the same? Is Perfect Dark starting from scratch AGAIN? Battletoads was rumored to get something and then a flash game is launched?
There's a reason why Nintendo mostly launches a game and that's it. You could have Mario Kart 8 with no patches and works fine. Sony games are a weird thing nowadays because a lot of them have engines from the past, so they schedule well and have some patches later depending of the developer. Microsoft needs to get their shit together because they fuck up in a lot of games even at pre production - where the fuck is Hellblade 2? Why Halo Infinite is infinite the of the same? Is Perfect Dark starting from scratch AGAIN? Battletoads was rumored to get something and then a flash game is launched?
Dr. Claus
Banned
Diversity of thought is what we should push. You can have one of every race and gender from LA and they would all think the exact same. It is utterly and completely meaningless. It does not guarantee differences of perspectives.
gothmog
Gold Member
I honestly think it might be age. The pioneers of the industry are getting old and probably tired. The passion isn't there the way it used to be. The grind isn't the same if it's happening at all. People are retiring or quiet quitting or whatever they call it. Some veterans are probably getting paid a lot of money as well so are reluctant to give it up.
I'm sure there's other things but many of my peers in the industry had plenty of time to rethink their lives during Covid.
I'm sure there's other things but many of my peers in the industry had plenty of time to rethink their lives during Covid.
Gamer79
Predicts the worst decade for Sony starting 2022
The real reason?
Game development has turned into a cold corporation instead of passionate people trying to make the best product they can.
The other issue is other people do not speak with their wallet. People rush out to buy these unfinished games at launch. Adapt my motto and wait until the game is totally patched to buy games.
Game development has turned into a cold corporation instead of passionate people trying to make the best product they can.
The other issue is other people do not speak with their wallet. People rush out to buy these unfinished games at launch. Adapt my motto and wait until the game is totally patched to buy games.
LRKD
Member
I'd say it comes down to 3 things primarily, greedy publishers. 20+ years ago it was still a bit of a wild west, there wasn't a huge difference between AAA and indie. Games was still mostly a kids toy market. Now big biz realizes it's a huge industry like music & tv. So much of the passion has been drained and been replaced by corporate mandates looking to only min max $.
The second issue is the people being hired now.
Third ease of access to download updates. It was very important to release a finished game before, now it doesn't matter because you can release it and finish it 2 years later.
The second issue is the people being hired now.
Third ease of access to download updates. It was very important to release a finished game before, now it doesn't matter because you can release it and finish it 2 years later.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
These are my guesses. You've got people on the creative side clashing with the technical team. Creative people want to do things and the technical team can't make it happen without it being a buggy mess. It probably runs great on their machines. I would imagine if these large teams can't figure it out then they'd have to outsource someone a lot more technically skilled and they probably make it work for that period of time. I think the development cycles are being pushed by people who don't know or understand the technical side of things. It's just a product to the big corporate world. It's making excuses for big AAA video games at a certain point. It's like those EA sports games where they've copied the previous year. It's probably easier on EA to push them out. It's such a big IP that making excuses for it is beyond the voice of the gaming community.
It's probably a mess with so many expectations. I remember hearing about outsourced AI programmers being sent to work on a MMORPG. Imagine sending in a programmer years into the development cycle. You don't get that with single player because the game is expected to run flawlessly on launch.
I've been around software developers and they're not done with their job the moment the product gets shipped. There usually has to be a team that supports their stuff. You've got games that have more and more code now a days.
I think a lot of the game designers left the industry because the industry became a profit machine. The industry follows popular trends more than it creates new ideas. It doesn't take much to make a game worth a billion dollars, but it doesn't happen all the time. What a lot of gamers want doesn't happen until a company fails at catching trends. Listening to Jaffe talk about the Sony now isn't the Sony when he worked there. It'll probably hit close to home when these companies invest all this money and they don't turn a profit. It'll all go back to the meat grinder.
It's probably a mess with so many expectations. I remember hearing about outsourced AI programmers being sent to work on a MMORPG. Imagine sending in a programmer years into the development cycle. You don't get that with single player because the game is expected to run flawlessly on launch.
I've been around software developers and they're not done with their job the moment the product gets shipped. There usually has to be a team that supports their stuff. You've got games that have more and more code now a days.
I think a lot of the game designers left the industry because the industry became a profit machine. The industry follows popular trends more than it creates new ideas. It doesn't take much to make a game worth a billion dollars, but it doesn't happen all the time. What a lot of gamers want doesn't happen until a company fails at catching trends. Listening to Jaffe talk about the Sony now isn't the Sony when he worked there. It'll probably hit close to home when these companies invest all this money and they don't turn a profit. It'll all go back to the meat grinder.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I dont think we get posts like this which have a point of view of creative vs technical, or people leaving the industry. So its refreshing to hear.
Perhaps adding to the creative vs technical side, here is my guess to add to what you say. Maybe this is why games seem so much buggier.
In old generations, the power available is only so good. So gamers and devs can only expect so much. Even if you got the best Sega arcade hardware or the best Pentium and 3D card, people have a certain level of maximum expectations. You arent getting 60 fps Jurassic Park visuals. You're getting at most 30 fps blocky shit. And everyone at game companies and gamers know that.
But with the latest whiz bang power, TF, RT, spit and and eyeball reflections and hair with accurate follicles and dandruff because the latest Unreal Engine says you can do that, then what you get is every gamer and every creative going ape shit games can get there. So instead of gameplay and polish, you got an unbalanced amount of people and money put towards freckle and skin pore accuracy at the highest res, frames and RT, than tidying up core gameplay.
The coders are probably overwhelmed with artistic intricacies like perfect textures as a priority, so they got no time or budget for QA and quashing bugs.
Just my guess.
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PeteBull
Member
Im from Europe, bro, former eastern block Europe at that, corporate greed existed 10, 20 and 30 years ago too, and if u werent alive then just ask ur fellow gafers how many amazing games we got before, its not like corporations got suddenly greedly in last 5-10years, its not like humans can turn on/off "being greedy" button, its not kinect from xbox one ;D
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StealthGoblin
Banned
I think one area, particularly for games designed to be multiplatform from the start, is the wide array of platforms to hit.
PC (and it's many, many potential combinations of CPU, GPU and RAM)
Xbox Series X
Xbox Series S
PS5
I think the reason why the PS5 version of a game is often the most consistent at 'pushing' things is because it's one platform with one set of specs. Sony have found themselves that by expanding into PC they've had struggles with PC ports, and I think some of that is down to the hugely varying specs of PC gamers' rigs.
As for Xbox, there aren't many games that have decent Series S versions with a Series X version that really pushes things.
I really don't think Sony should be pursuing a PS5 Pro this gen. Part of Sony's reasoning for having the PS4 Pro was to stop people switching to PC but I don't think that'll come to pass this gen. PC versions are a minefield. Additionally, having a PS5 Pro would introduce yet another target platform for developers.
PS5 graphics and performance are good and will be fine for most people for the next 4-5 years. We haven't even had many games properly designed for the platform without having the PS4 hanging over them as well.
PC (and it's many, many potential combinations of CPU, GPU and RAM)
Xbox Series X
Xbox Series S
PS5
I think the reason why the PS5 version of a game is often the most consistent at 'pushing' things is because it's one platform with one set of specs. Sony have found themselves that by expanding into PC they've had struggles with PC ports, and I think some of that is down to the hugely varying specs of PC gamers' rigs.
As for Xbox, there aren't many games that have decent Series S versions with a Series X version that really pushes things.
I really don't think Sony should be pursuing a PS5 Pro this gen. Part of Sony's reasoning for having the PS4 Pro was to stop people switching to PC but I don't think that'll come to pass this gen. PC versions are a minefield. Additionally, having a PS5 Pro would introduce yet another target platform for developers.
PS5 graphics and performance are good and will be fine for most people for the next 4-5 years. We haven't even had many games properly designed for the platform without having the PS4 hanging over them as well.
DownLikeBCPowder
Member
Ps2 had a very poor launch offering IMO. I had it on launch. If you feel otherwise that's fine, but don't agree.
HazukiSensei
Banned
Yeah to me it indicates they have no intention on things getting better from a software to hardware utilization standpoint.
If they had opted not to release a pro, then that shows they acknowledge the state of their releases, but since they are releasing a pro, it indicates that they think everything is peachy.
Interfectum
Member
Hiring based on identity vs talent.
Pimpbaa
Member
It didn't have a whole lot that first year In North America (I was playing a whole lot of Tekken Tag Team and SSX). Things started really getting awesome when GTA3 came out a year later.
GermanZepp
Gold Member
The world's society's are collapsing, the bars are low when need to be high and high when need to be low. Everyone is entitled and it could be the worst thing to be giving how technology evolving.
DownLikeBCPowder
Member
Yep, wholeheartedly agree. You could play Orphan or some other terrible games, maybe not necessarily terrible, but nothing to really blow me away. Tekken Tag was good/solid even though I'm not a Tekken fan, but played a lot because it was one of the few things out. SSX also. But that next year things started lighting on fire suddenly, it really made up for the IMO bad launch. We had Devil May Cry, GTA III, Final Fantasy X, Metal Gear Solid 2, Gran Turismo 3 if you like that, THPS3, ICO, Twisted Metal Black... it was a deluge of awesome in 2001 as the year went on.
schaft0620
Member
Their game got canceled, it was nothing like that. Budgets are due, forecasting is terrible right now and many large corporations (Sony) are going to be going doing a 180 on the spending they were doing.
It's bad enough that they can't just spend a little less, important stuff is going to go. It's not just Sony.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
wat?
