terrisus
Member
Based on his citing of Everton as a "B-tier" team, it sounds like pretty much any team that hasn't finished at the top or the Premier League (or respective country's top league) in the past 20 years or something.
What's the point in cheering for a mid level European soccer team?
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Based on his citing of Everton as a "B-tier" team, it sounds like pretty much any team that hasn't finished at the top or the Premier League (or respective country's top league) in the past 20 years or something.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Most are just hyping their home teams
but some Sports Organizations really need to look into parity, specially Euro Football leagues, shit is too predictable overthere.
but some Sports Organizations really need to look into parity, specially Euro Football leagues, shit is too predictable overthere.
bean breath
Member
appaws
Banned
Really...! I didn't know this. So if you are a kid, let's say from London, who is a top class player in school or the youth leagues or whatever...how does it work? Can you sign with whatever pro organization you want if they want you? Are the minor league teams affiliated with big teams? So let's say you are a young player signed with Manchester United, do they send you to play for the Mash City Bangers while you develop?
I am a grad of the University of Kentucky, so I will be a Wildcats fan for life...Do European universities have teams? Do Oxford alums/fans go out to support their school.
It sounds like the best similarity to the American sports structure is to college sports instead of pro sports, where the top schools can sign all the best recruits each year.
Uhm when i was following football i supported a team constantly at risk of relegation in the league of the country i root for. Why would i never understand?
I dunno maybe it is like cheering for an abusive relationship. The hope that something special could happen is a big thing. It never seems to happen. Compared to American sports, buying a team may work but sometimes a team with 25 percent of the budget beats your ass. Not so much when it comes to soccer.
Well for any sport really. Can be a bunch of reasons for example:
1. It´s your hometeam!
2. You like their playstyle. More fun to watch.
3. Lets say one team has won 10 last years it gets boring. Time for some change!
4. The best team are pricks.
5. You know someone on the team.
I don´t watch sports. Only E-Sports. But I cheer for the player I feel has the style that is most fun to watch. Not the one I think will win.
And almost always cheer for the Zerg! For the Swarm!
1. It´s your hometeam!
2. You like their playstyle. More fun to watch.
3. Lets say one team has won 10 last years it gets boring. Time for some change!
4. The best team are pricks.
5. You know someone on the team.
I don´t watch sports. Only E-Sports. But I cheer for the player I feel has the style that is most fun to watch. Not the one I think will win.
And almost always cheer for the Zerg! For the Swarm!
345triangle
Member
this OP completely misses the spirit and appeal of football. i'm a southampton fan and let me tell you, after the last five or six years we've had, i get infinitely more excitement out of the prospect of finishing eighth in the premier league than a chelsea fan would celebrating their third title in four years or whatever.
watching saints beat man utd 6-3 was one of the most entertaining moments of my life and i'll never forget it. i honestly think you get higher emotional highs supporting a team that barely wins anything.
watching saints beat man utd 6-3 was one of the most entertaining moments of my life and i'll never forget it. i honestly think you get higher emotional highs supporting a team that barely wins anything.
345triangle
Member
if you're good enough to be a pro footballer, you'll have been spotted in your early teens and work your way through a club's academy system; there are youth leagues and so on where teams develop young players. no-one playing for a university side has any hope whatsoever of making it as a professional.
but then yeah, once you're a pro any team can sign you if your club agrees to sell and break the contract. my team, southampton, has one of the best academies in england and has produced players like gareth bale, who is now the most expensive player in the world after spurs and then real madrid bought him.
this system makes more sense to me than the american drafts, which are like a slightly more communist version of the blue shell in mario kart.
secondspace
Member
Because there's promotion, relegation, cup competitions and qualification for Europe, there's always excitement for most teams. You'll have the year where your team is stuck in the middle and do nothing, but it's not that common.
That is so crazy to me. In The US, of all places, sports is practically communism. Whereas here in Europe, soccer is turbo capitalism at its worst.
Lol
Coreda
Member
I'm not a sports follower, but I remember overhearing someone talking about a conversation they had with a friend about what exactly it is that keeps fans supporting a team even after most of the players have changed.
Not sure how many fans have seen complete replacements of team players, but it's interesting to think what the reasons would be behind such support, as much of it would come just from the past history with the team.
Not sure how many fans have seen complete replacements of team players, but it's interesting to think what the reasons would be behind such support, as much of it would come just from the past history with the team.
It would make sense if you had a chance to keep Bale.
345triangle
Member
we did have a chance to keep him, he was under contract and an asset of the club. but realistically, it makes more sense to cash out and strengthen the team elsewhere, because out-of-contract players can move for free. now we have luke shaw instead in bale's position, another academy success!
and maybe he'll be sold this summer too, which would disappoint me as a fan. but the system ultimately works because it encourages teams like southampton to develop their own players in a sustainable manner, and the effects of this are felt through the years.
my childhood hero was matt le tissier, one of the most talented players in the country at the time and yet he chose to stay with southampton for his entire career. there's nothing stopping players doing that now, but if they don't want to stick around it's best that they move on. i'm okay with it — it's part of supporting the team. i like knowing that i'm not following a bunch of mercenaries.
I root for my hometown team just like anybody should, no matter how bad or good they are. I don't understand people that are fans of teams that they have no connection with whatsoever, like when you're not even from the US but claim to be a hardcore 49er fans. Or people not from spain rooting for Barcelona..(and now probably for Atletico). Fucking bandwagonners.
Oh and fuck european football right now (especially the premier league) fucking sheiks and asian/american billionaires buying all those clubs and ruining an entire sport. From one of the most entertaining leagues to a shitfest littered with overpayed assholes that dive after the slightest contact. Not to mention Blatter and his buddies coming up with one horrible idea after the other.
Oh and fuck european football right now (especially the premier league) fucking sheiks and asian/american billionaires buying all those clubs and ruining an entire sport. From one of the most entertaining leagues to a shitfest littered with overpayed assholes that dive after the slightest contact. Not to mention Blatter and his buddies coming up with one horrible idea after the other.
Buba Big Guns
Banned
What? A bad team has never been crowned champion. Yes, a Cinderella run happens from time to time, but the best team always ends up winning.
And the NHL probably has the most parity out of any league in the world at the moment. More parity is better for the sport in general. Europeans will likely never see it in their leagues due to greed.
bean breath
Member
I don't understand this.
Why do teams buy and sell players like livestock? I'm presuming that you're not talking about the player's salary, which you inexplicably breakdown by week, which is a whole different mess (Does he get his weekly wages during the offseason?).
Don't teams ever just trade for players, straight up, "I'll give you this guy, you give me that guy" etc.
Why do you have to pay the team anything? Why does that get more coverage than the player's salary?
Can't you just wait for his contract to be up and then the player can just decide where he wants to go based on who's interested? Are there contracts? Do teams just own these players indefinitely like slaves until they retire?
So let's say this guy, Gareth Bale, ok Tottenham owns him like a slave. So did Bale decide he wants to go to Real Madrid? Does he any say at all? Did he meet up with Real behind Tottenham's back, come to a mutual agreement that they want each other, and then Real just throws money at Tottenham until the amount is so absurd that they can't say no?
Hypothetically, let's say Tottenham are some real Elliot Ness types, can't be bought. But the damage has been done, Bale is angry, he wants to go to Spain and refuses to play for Tottenham now. But Tottenham owns him, for as long as he lives, so he either plays for them or gets a job collecting trash as he waits to see who breaks down first. Tottenham's like,
"No, we really want you, you give our team the best chance of winning. We want to retire your number and hang your jersey from the rafters. We want you to go into the effing soccer hall of fame wearing a Spurs jersey. You put a lot of butts in the seats. etc"
I know what you're thinking, "Oh you idiots, only the same, like, 4 teams ever win. Who cares about winning. You'll never win. Just take the damn money!"
I don't know, it's confusing.
Have the players ever gone on strike? Do they have a union?
FortuneFaded
Member
This used to be the case but the Bosman Ruling: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosman_ruling changed the situation so that when a player's contract runs out they are free to enter talks with another club. When Tottenham bought Gareth Bale, he signed a four year contract. If they did not renew his contract he could be free to go. In 2011, he signed onto Tottenham for another four years and so the money that Real Madrid paid Tottenham was to void his contract. They could have made an agreement with Bale that he would stay for two more years and then leave for free under the Bosman Ruling however this is known as 'tapping up a player' and is against the rules
Broder Salsa
Banned
Why teams do this? The money they get from it should be enough reason. Exchanging players isn't totally unheard of, but usually when such a deal is done, it's with one of the clubs also paying some money. You have it pay the team something as they developed these players or has him on a contract, if you can just breach that contract because you want to move yourself, it's not really worth signing players for such fees and wages is it? Not why what you mean by why it gets more coverage than salary, probably because the money the club gets, often goes into re-investing.
Of course there's contracts and there's nothing stopping these players from just waiting out their contracts, in which case they will get even bigger signing on fees and such at their new club. Any comparison to slaves is ridiculous.
In the end it's all down to Tottenham. Of course they don't want to have a moody player around who doesn't want to be at their club though. Usually the buying club has at least tapped the other player up through agents and such, to see if there's interest from the player to come there... Although in a case where it's about going from Spurs to Real Madrid I don't think anyone would say no. Often, like it was the case with the Bale sale, Tottenham will openly give the player permission to discuss personal terms with the other club, before the actual transfer fee is done. That way they can squeeze even more money out of the sale.
Well you don't just own a player for life.
and yes, players has gone on strike before for various reasons and of course they got an union.
You might find this interesting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosman_ruling
michaelius
Banned
Local regional patriotism
Aren't people in America proud of their City or State ?
Aren't people in America proud of their City or State ?
You Americans like winners. Us Europeans like our hometowns. Consequently, we're going to be cheering for the teams of our city regardless of their performance. Not to mention that it's far more epic to see an underdog winning against a giant (see also: AUPA ATLETIC!).
Also, here teams are far more bounded to their land that in the US since you cannot buy and sell teams to different cities: Real Madrid is not going to become Real Bilbao just because some rich guy buys it.
However, I would love if there would be some kind of levelling mechanism in order to spread the wealth among the different teams inside a leage (or even the Champions Leage). That's a good American idea worth of being copied, me thinks.
Also, here teams are far more bounded to their land that in the US since you cannot buy and sell teams to different cities: Real Madrid is not going to become Real Bilbao just because some rich guy buys it.
However, I would love if there would be some kind of levelling mechanism in order to spread the wealth among the different teams inside a leage (or even the Champions Leage). That's a good American idea worth of being copied, me thinks.
Universities are universities and sport teams are sport teams. European universities don't have teams in the way US universities do.
Some universities do have teams that are associated with them in some way or another (there was a rugby team within the student association at my university for example), but they are generally there for students to practice the sport for fun and recreation.
So no.
When I started going to see Hull City as a kid, they were in the 4th Tier.
In the 15 or so years that I have been going, I saw them rise to the Premier League, and on Sunday i'll be going to see them in the FA Cup Semi-Final. That is kind of unbelievable, and the amount of enjoyment I get from that is staggering.
That being said, despite my time supporting the club being something of a bizarre period of extraordinary success - there have been plenty of terrible days. But those terrible days are usually what makes it so worthwhile. Some of the best fun in the stands is had when you are travelling across the country to a game you know that you are going to lose, and you don't have a shot on goal all game. Those times can be melancholic fun in themselves, but they make the special moments like beating top teams, getting to FA Cup Semi-Finals etc... all the better.
The important thing is relative success. Though recent success for my club has been kind of amazing, i'm unsure whether I truly enjoy it that much more than beating Yeovil to gain promotion from the 4th division. And however bad your team is, there are always going to be great moments of relative success. The high points are great.
It's about being part of something, for no good reason.
In the 15 or so years that I have been going, I saw them rise to the Premier League, and on Sunday i'll be going to see them in the FA Cup Semi-Final. That is kind of unbelievable, and the amount of enjoyment I get from that is staggering.
That being said, despite my time supporting the club being something of a bizarre period of extraordinary success - there have been plenty of terrible days. But those terrible days are usually what makes it so worthwhile. Some of the best fun in the stands is had when you are travelling across the country to a game you know that you are going to lose, and you don't have a shot on goal all game. Those times can be melancholic fun in themselves, but they make the special moments like beating top teams, getting to FA Cup Semi-Finals etc... all the better.
The important thing is relative success. Though recent success for my club has been kind of amazing, i'm unsure whether I truly enjoy it that much more than beating Yeovil to gain promotion from the 4th division. And however bad your team is, there are always going to be great moments of relative success. The high points are great.
It's about being part of something, for no good reason.
Doesn't need to be soccer or anything, my rugby league team North Sydney Bears were a foundation club when the comp began in 1908, my love for my team came from my parents, who supported the club from their parents as we all lived in the area.
Since 1908, the Bears only won the comp twice (1921, 1922)... Made the Grand Final one other time (1943). We were mainly a bottom half of the ladder team, losing more games than we won. Lucky to see us have some reasonable success to make the finals series a few times in the 90s, always falling a game short of the big one.
1999 was the last year out team competed in the top comp, we were forced to merge with our arch rivals (bullshit) due to comp restructuring.
Never followed that team or any other team and haven't really followed rugby league that much since, we have made a local grand final since then, but still lost it.... One day we might return to the top grade, the earliest could be 2017 if we are lucky and maybe then I can really follow a major sport again
Since 1908, the Bears only won the comp twice (1921, 1922)... Made the Grand Final one other time (1943). We were mainly a bottom half of the ladder team, losing more games than we won. Lucky to see us have some reasonable success to make the finals series a few times in the 90s, always falling a game short of the big one.
1999 was the last year out team competed in the top comp, we were forced to merge with our arch rivals (bullshit) due to comp restructuring.
Never followed that team or any other team and haven't really followed rugby league that much since, we have made a local grand final since then, but still lost it.... One day we might return to the top grade, the earliest could be 2017 if we are lucky and maybe then I can really follow a major sport again
Au Contraire. That's where football fucking rules.
The champions leauge games are cool and all, but it's not why europeans are passionate about the game. I'd much rather watch my local team play in the shit swedish leauge than watching real madrid vs chelsea in the champions leauge.
Honest question: Do you have a problem with the fact that an investor is involved in your club?
Yes. I have a huge problem with Allam.
Dutch Gronk
Banned
Paging Kave_Man!
So basically you're saying it's just ok to be a fan of a successful team, despite where in the country you live?
Let me explain my situation. I'm from germany, so it's the Bundesliga i'm following the most. I'm living in North Rhine-Westphalia, in the far west of germany. Of course i could've been a "fan" of the successful FC Bayern Munich when i started getting interested in football. Or Borussia Dortmund. Or another successful team. But i grew into cheering for Borussia Mönchengladbach, since this city is only about 12km away from where i live. I can identify myself with the city, the people and the team.
So, it's not about being a fan of a team just because it won a lot of titles (well, Borussia Mönchengladbach won a lot of titles, but that was mostly in the 1970s). It's about being a fan of a team you can identify yourself with. I've experienced a lot of good times, but also some bad times (relegations into the 2nd division of the Bundesliga), but i've never stopped cheering for this team.
Currently we're the 4th place in the table and if things go well, we'll play the Champions Leage qualification, or if not maybe the Europa League. So yeah, this is a good season for us and we've made quite the progress over the last years. Before that we were placed in the midfield or fighting against relegation, so i'm happy how things have changed. But i'd never stop being a fan of Borussia Mönchengladbach, simply because this is "my team" from "my region".
Let me explain my situation. I'm from germany, so it's the Bundesliga i'm following the most. I'm living in North Rhine-Westphalia, in the far west of germany. Of course i could've been a "fan" of the successful FC Bayern Munich when i started getting interested in football. Or Borussia Dortmund. Or another successful team. But i grew into cheering for Borussia Mönchengladbach, since this city is only about 12km away from where i live. I can identify myself with the city, the people and the team.
So, it's not about being a fan of a team just because it won a lot of titles (well, Borussia Mönchengladbach won a lot of titles, but that was mostly in the 1970s). It's about being a fan of a team you can identify yourself with. I've experienced a lot of good times, but also some bad times (relegations into the 2nd division of the Bundesliga), but i've never stopped cheering for this team.
Currently we're the 4th place in the table and if things go well, we'll play the Champions Leage qualification, or if not maybe the Europa League. So yeah, this is a good season for us and we've made quite the progress over the last years. Before that we were placed in the midfield or fighting against relegation, so i'm happy how things have changed. But i'd never stop being a fan of Borussia Mönchengladbach, simply because this is "my team" from "my region".
I don't know about soccer but Europe really needs to do this for basketball. I would get into Euroleague but there isn't enough talent in Europe to have it spread that thin.
Edit: A lot of people are misunderstanding the op I think. He's not asking how you can root for a team that never wins, more like why are you OK with a system that makes it impossible (or highly improbable) for your team to win. Americans know all about rooting for losing teams, it's just that our losing teams lose do to incompetence or like a curse or something not because it's financially impossible.
Poor compared to the very rich clubs, but still top 25. Simply looking at income, there's no real reason why Ajax can't duplicate Atletico's success:
Ajax seems to be hoarding money these last few years though. They aren't spending it on big transfers. Atletico got Villa, Ajax got Bojan.
We really need to merge with Belgium at least. Never mind the money, it's in Ajax' best interest to have solid competition. Right now teams like Roda and NEC are a complete joke. If they were replaced with teams like Anderlecht and Standard it would mean a huge boost to the overall level of the league. Also, Utrecht might not make the cutnow watch Twente lose points against them
Nice graph I was looking for that.
Is Atletico private or on the stock market?
Think Ajax started hoarding after van Basten wasted so much on Sulejmani.
Can you imagine if they tapped into that reserve to keep players longer at least? Nevermind buyinh players, just give talent some extra cash to stick it out another year.
A merger is the best option but it will never happen
level of football would go up two notches at leastBecause Swansea were always in the divisions, went bankrupt and then a local man bought the entire club for £1, now they've been in the Premiership for a number of years. You support a team because you grow up with them, have them in your family, like their play style, from your own home, or for any other reason you could ever think to like about something. It's not about the winning, it's about the game.
It is crazy that is the case.
I have no trouble understanding people supporting non-winning teams.
My issue in soccer is that mid level teams aren't exciting to watch. Soccer is such a difficult sport that unless its being played at a high level, it often just looks sloppy and amateurish most of the time.
My issue in soccer is that mid level teams aren't exciting to watch. Soccer is such a difficult sport that unless its being played at a high level, it often just looks sloppy and amateurish most of the time.
Excitement isn't dictated by skill level if you care about the result.
Yea, if you're already a supporter. But from the outside looking in, I can understand why people would choose to be excited about bigger teams because they are more impressive and fun to watch. The difference between watching Real Madrid and Stoke City is dramatic for instance.
Sure. I don't think anyone's disputing that. But when people come to choose a team to support there's a tradition of supporting a team based on where you live and your family ties. Often parents will take their kids to see the local team play and then they get hooked for life.
Relative success is everything. It's like following your national team. You know it's shitty but you love it anyway. You love your small successes during the season.
conversely i don't understand how american "minor leagues" can survive. I wouldn't support a team where there is the constant threat that a the parent club just takes a few players away that are doing well at the moment or sends a few unwanted players down.
Also, never having the hope of being promoted, or the fear of being relegated.
I mean, the american system can be nice for the major leagues but how is it fun for the leagues that aren't top division?
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