fart town usa
Member
My brother played that constantly on PS3, we were roommates at the time and it was one of those games I loved to simply watch. He was so good at it, crazy entertaining.
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When will a game surpass TLOU 2's combat? The combat feels next gen.
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Lupin25
Member
I was trying to mediate between the people liking tlou2 and mgs5 lovers, both games have merits and different strong points.
FC was just an example of sandboxy shooter\stealth type of game.
True, but I’ll explain.
TLOU 2 is cinematic narrative-driven, which means smaller levels/tighter spaces, to progress you faster to the next scene.
To start the game there’s more of an emphasis on tighter spaces to highlight stealth encounters (stalker levels/human enemy crowds). But by the end, tighter space is used more to highlight dense zombie crowds and intense melee combat (different enemy types).
TLOU 2 uses it’s levels to work towards something (the end of the game lol) and evolves pretty well with steady progress towards some great weapons, varied enemies & different encounters/environments you can get creative with.
Far Cry & MGS 5 (to a much lesser extent) felt like outpost after outpost filled with sandbox elements. FC3 is pure gold though.
They’re very different games.
hinch7
Member
Yeah mechanically MP3 controls were so tight and responsive which is I why I put it higher than RDR 2. But the latter does look and feel more realistic with better animations and fidelity. Some of the animations do get in the way though, at the expense of gameplay with added input lag. Euthoria is such an underrated engine when it comes to gameplay; for the TPS side of things.
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SmokedMeat
Gamer™
It’s the same Gears combat as every other Gears.
Strategize
Member
There is no way on planet earth you just accused TLOU2 of having "easily abuseable AI" whilst simultaneously praising MGS5 lol. The whole problem with MGS5 is how the game gives you way WAY too many options to the point where no matter they throw at you the AI just can't keep up, you activity have to limit yourself in that game so that it stays engaging. Having more options do not automatically make a game better as too many options can ruin said balance.
In TLOU2, especially on harder difficulties you will use every mechanic, every weapon the game offers you or at least 90% of it, MGS5 on the other hand, maybe 30%, since most of the tools and weapons are just gimmicks, or worse versions of other things. TLOU2 is just more balanced overall, hence why the intensity remains high throughout. Another great part about TLOU2 is the fact that it manages to provide and even surpass at points the tension that RE4 brings WITHOUT the artificial gimping of characters movements and speed that usually come with horror titles.
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GymWolf
Member
All true.
But i think that even if mgs5\far cry were structured as a list of sandbox missions and not as open world games (mgs5 kinda is like that but still open like a small open world), they would still be way more varied than tlou2 for the intrinsic nature of being modern games with modern tech, modern gadgets and silly\bombastic stuff etc.
TLou2 is as basic as it comes because it is a realistic gritty post apocalyptic games with survival elements and where you have to scrape by every encounter with barely any equipment.
The more realistic your game is, the less varied the gameplay is gonna be, thats why arma 3 is way less varied than doom or bulletstorm (just to make an extreme example).
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GymWolf
Member
They both have extremely abuseable IA, 80% of what people perceive as smartness in tlou2 is just smoke and mirrors, i have close to 100 hours on grounded and i probably tested the IA of that game more than 99% of gaffers because i'm a sucker for advanced ia in videogames and i purposely repeat combat scenarios dozens of times to check shit.
Better than many others tps, nowhere near being ACTUALLY smart.
You really don't want to hear my examples, believe me (but you seems to be aware so it's probably no surprise for you)
But yeah, mgs5 ia during the gunfights is super questionable aswell.
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Icymanipulator
Member
It was good but I didn’t feel anything the OP felt while playing.
Strategize
Member
I didn't say you can't find ways to abuse it, I'm just saying it's harder to abuse than on MGS5. I've seen plenty of streams of grounded No Return runs, many people simply cannot do it, not without sinking big hours into it such as you.
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GymWolf
Member
I'm not even talking about being abuseable per se because i don't like to use cheap tricks in games, i try to play normally and die a lot because i'm not a god with tps, they just have many of the things that dumb enemies have in other games, just veiled much better.
I quoted you on the abuseable part, but i was not really talking about that, my bad.
No returns is a different thing, different rythm, variables etc, i'm talking about main campaign encounters, i didn't even tried no returns yet.
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I feel like I would not be as excited if I played this game.
Which makes me want to play it to prove it.
Find it hard to believe this is somehow on some other level of "combat" than Uncharted 4 which I've played.
It isn't it the same studio...game released ~4 years later on same platform?
Which makes me want to play it to prove it.
Find it hard to believe this is somehow on some other level of "combat" than Uncharted 4 which I've played.
It isn't it the same studio...game released ~4 years later on same platform?
hinch7
Member
Your brother has good tastes lol. Can't beleive it released all those years ago. Game still holds up today, visually and mechanically.
]
(not my clip)
But yeah its really fun to play as well. Even better on PC with precise aiming with mouse and keyboard. Tough as nails though. Well worth a check out on Steam... it'll run on a potato and can be found cheap on key websites. Real shame Rockstar forgot about the game.. not even a single port after its release on PS3/360.
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T4keD0wN
Member
Its the truth and someone needs to say it, you can literary see past the cover, completely unrealistic and illogical to do in a shooter. IDK why, but it just makes me feel like i am cheating the enemies even though i know its "ai" and that it cheats even more. Enemies are also further from the screen and therefore harder to target, playable characters can obstruct the aiming spot and so on.
3rd person has many advantages for melee where you can see the animations, but in games that are purely a shooter (not tlou2 case as its also a stealth and a melee game with emphasis on acting performances) the only advantage it has is seeing the reload animations a tiny bit better, but then it also introduces another problem where characters magically pull out rocket launchers out of their pants, shoot/see through walls or behind themselves and stuff like that.
I am not saying the "genre" is bad, there are great games to be found for sure, just that it has some weird fundamental design disadvantages going on that are there purely because of the perspective.
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3liteDragon
Member
What I’ve been saying, 4 years later it stills feels more next-gen than some of these so-called current-gen games. One of the best if not the best single-player TPS out there. The combat’s fucking visceral & the gameplay system really shines during the Hillcrest & Seraphite levels. Stoked for their next game as that seems to be the only competition to this game’s combat system.
bender
What time is it?
Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
I expect TLOU3 to include the combat animation and physics from the 2018 gameplay trailer which were omitted.
T4keD0wN
Member
Ok, can you please tell me why or are you just going to keep posting gifs?
Ive at least provided some valid reasonings, but if you dont have anything to to the discussion then just post another gif to signal me that i can stop wasting my time here.
bender
What time is it?
Your reasoning is asinine and isn't worthy of a serious response.
T4keD0wN
Member
SirTerry-T
Member
One of the benefits of outsourcing shit loads of your content...gives the core team plenty of time to work on the important stuff.
A generation ahead though?
Deep pockets and long dev times help there too, Naughty Dog have the luxury of a rich and patient(ish) benefactor in Sony.
SkylineRKR
Member
I always found it hard to go back to Uncharted after playing TLOU2.
In terms of viscerality and animations this is top tier, but Naughty Dog has been some of the most talented developers out there since the PS1 days. Its just too bad that both their IP, TLOU and Uncharted, are kind of similar in approach. They are linear third person story driven action games. One is light hearted, and the other is very bleak and gory.
I would like ND to create an action RPG, or a new Jak game perhaps. They do have the tech to make something extraordinary.
In terms of viscerality and animations this is top tier, but Naughty Dog has been some of the most talented developers out there since the PS1 days. Its just too bad that both their IP, TLOU and Uncharted, are kind of similar in approach. They are linear third person story driven action games. One is light hearted, and the other is very bleak and gory.
I would like ND to create an action RPG, or a new Jak game perhaps. They do have the tech to make something extraordinary.
SpecialAgentZ
Member
Reminds me of Soldier of Fortune (2000) (technological limitations considered).
FunkMiller
Member
You’re probably right OP.
But it’s not a good thing.
The creative stagnation in the video games industry is underscored by this kind of thing. We should have games that surpass TLOU2 by now... but we haven’t, because the corporate mentality has really sucked the industry dry of ambition. This includes Naughty Dog, who just pissed years away on a GaaS, instead of trying to top themselves.
But it’s not a good thing.
The creative stagnation in the video games industry is underscored by this kind of thing. We should have games that surpass TLOU2 by now... but we haven’t, because the corporate mentality has really sucked the industry dry of ambition. This includes Naughty Dog, who just pissed years away on a GaaS, instead of trying to top themselves.
TIGERCOOL
Member
I've played it through twice now, and loved it both times. Second run I used slow-mo aiming for good stretches to really appreciate the finer details of combat and damage model. Nothing really like it, delivered on all the promises of the first game's combat encounter trailer (which ended up watered down on release due to cpu constraints on ps3).
Probably going to wait for a PC release of tlou2 for a third playthrough. Want to see how the experience changes with more precise aim on the mouse.
Probably going to wait for a PC release of tlou2 for a third playthrough. Want to see how the experience changes with more precise aim on the mouse.
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Thank you for posting this.
I was playing RE4 remake and last of us 2R just recently with each a few hours a day.
RE4 is absolutely superior, and has far more enemy variety.
Faust
Perpetually Tired
It is rather disappointing how lacking stealth has been in many games since Thief. A few have come very close to being as good, maybe even surpassing it in certain aspects such as Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory with how it uses light or MGSV in how you can enter/exit an area. However, TLOU is thousands of miles away from coming close to any of these in terms of stealth.
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Wrong.
In RE4 remake you can crouch behind and get this juicy knife stab with a few animations to play. Got a slick parry system and perfect parries to boot.
You have knife slashing, stun into melee hits, grounded stabs and slashes plus stomps. Suplex city!?
LOL at “good shooting.” Come on man… 99% of the encounters in RE4 have you shooting and it’s top tier. Watch the video posted above for a small fraction of what’s available. Doesn’t showcase sniping or other weapons you can get access to.
You have to be kissing Neil on the down low to think his game has better combat than RE4R.
JayK47
Member
So OP likes the gore porn. Before hearing about how they ruined all the characters and story from the first game, I could not help but notice that all previews and trailers really went balls deep with the brutality. I was surprised to see people were into that. The amount from the first game was bad enough, and they doubled down on it for this game. I guess I do not have the stomach for it anymore. Older games with gore just didn't seem to affect me as much as clearly it was just a game. But as the graphics have gotten nearly photo-realistic, I really do not want to see that up close and personal. I would probably puke playing this game for multiple reasons, the insane brutality being only one of the reasons.
Seek help OP. Get out and get some air. Pet a puppy.
Seek help OP. Get out and get some air. Pet a puppy.
Represent.
Banned
RE4 feels a generation a behind TLOU 2 combat.
Its not just about what you can do, its about how good/visceral it feels to do do those things.
The shooting in RE4 feels like a kids game in comparison to the grounded in reality, brutal nature of The Last of Us. The gore is friendlier, the physics are way worse, the animations are way worse, the guns dont hit as hard or feel as good. Tons of QTE's, cant go prone, no verticality in the environments, etc.
In TLOU 2 you can use the environment around you to send infected after regular human enemies, hold enemies hostage, etc
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
The knife is barely usable in Resident Evil 4 Remake in melee situations. It's barely used as a melee option at that. It's something usable when you're trying to save ammo and you're killing zombies when they're on the ground.
I also said you're using stun to melee attacks MOST of the time, I never said there were never any other mechanics in the game.
In the Last of Us you can
- Stop infected while they're on the ground.
- Take infected \ enemies hostage and use them as a shield or even feed them to clickers.
- The melee combat reacts to the environment. Characters either punch or hit their enemies against the wall or on the counter. Take their melee weapons from them mid-combat.
- Most melee weapons are different and play unique animations.
- Melee hand-to-hand combats are different.
As I said, you're mostly stunning the enemies to perform a melee attack, which is very different in TLOU. You can also stun enemies to perform a melee attack, but there are also way more options.
The mechanisms in TLOU are far deeper don't need to be a far of their games to realize this.
Guilty_AI
Member
TLoU2 gore isn't grounded in reality, its incredibly exagerated to the point of looking like some 80s splatter movie. Legs and heads don't get blown off that easily by conventional guns and explosives, not to mention other effects like all those pieces of flesh sticking to walls and ceiling.
And making it exagerated isn't a wrong decision necessarely since it can make combat more satisfying, but forget this "grounded" bullshit.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
All I know is every time I see a LOU battle clip, the AI bandits are dumb as rocks as they cant see you or are smart enough to look under a car. You character's head is even bobbing up and down in plain sight from behind a ledge and it's like the enemies are blind. It's like PS1 MGS soldiers who had about 20 ft range at a 30 degree cone of vision.
NeonGhost
uses 'M$' - What year is it? Not 2002.
That’s why it’s called phantom pain
Vick
Gold Member
This post is peak GAF. First sentence aside, maybe, everything in here is not simply wrong but the literal and complete opposite of factual reality.
Visual feedback has been the most important factor at Naughty Dog for more than a decade, it's the only reason their games have been as successful as they were and let them get away with their limited structures, it's just how good their games feel to play.
You say this when there's actually not a better example of good animations while maintaining responsive controls in the whole industry, no other TPS around gives you the amount of control mid-animations while looking as good, not a single one.
In fact, their games ruined 90% of third person games for me for this very reason, things like Tomb Raider and Evil Within are close to unplayable after Uncharted 4/Lost Legacy and TLOU and this is not an hyperbole, it's literally like going from a Ferrari 458 to a Nissan Versa Note. They feel like utter SHIT in comparison, it's harsh and rough to the point of being unbearable.
So you're either full of or just read some IL figures and misinterpreted them, because every action in their games starting with the first TLOU and especially Uncharted 4 feels as fluid and responsive as it should to feel/look the absolute most satisfying to perform.
There are some games with maybe even better animations, like Red Dead Redemptions 2, but they for sure as fuck won't feel even remotely in the same stratosphere to control. Just as there's games, mostly jap ones (RE4R absolutely not), that feel as good to play but none looks nearly as flawless.
Going prone in TLOU2 under the little tent inside the theatre and playing with the books physics using hands.. this shit would not be possible in any other game on this planet.
Honestly, my response might be a little over the top but your post really got me in a way only personal blatant misinformation would, when companies like Rockstar and CDPR exist baseless and frankly outlandish claims like this are just shocking to read, and for sure they would be for the millions of people who played ND games and compared them with the rest of this industry's offering.
I've noticed for a while Faust (and many others) opinions on TLOU but just ND in general are personally really hard to understand..
I totally get a title such as OP bringing justified reactions, but some of the response in here reads like a total and complete alternate reality. Things like these:
Is just not something I can comprehend after hundreds of hours of Grounded playthroughs. The amoung of options, outcomes and freedom in some encounters like Hillcrest o Resort is quite literally infinite in Part II.
That combined with that Grounded AI.. it's honestly the most satisfying stealth sandbox I've ever experienced and by a long damn shot, and having played the other examples provided at max difficulty is why I'm having such an hard time understanding such claims.
MGSV surely offer more options.. but does it make it better? Absolutely not and I'm flabbergasted some could answer with a yes, let alone claim they're thousands of miles apart.
I would legit buy TLOU Part II just to play the Grounded Hillcrest Houses encounter over and over and over again, not a single playthrough would be the same anyway.
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Guilty_AI
Member
And again, this isn't necessarely bad. A lot of people keep claiming for "smarter enemy AI" but the truth is smart enemies with realistic perceptions aren't necessarely fun to play against.
What players actually mean when they say that (even if they themselves don't realize it) is they want more reactive enemies and NPCs. People like op would be quick to say the enemy AI is "good" for things like imploring for their lives when they're wounded or shouting friends names, but this isn't what "good enemy AI" is. Its just a handful of scripted events that have no bearing on how smart enemies actually behave during gameplay, even though it may illude some players into thinking so.
bender
What time is it?
It's 2D and all, but Mark of the Ninja is such a wonderful stealth game.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
okThis post is peak GAF. First sentence aside, maybe, everything in here is not simply wrong but the literal and complete opposite of factual reality.
Visual feedback has been the most important factor at Naughty Dog for more than a decade, it's the only reason their games have been as successful as they were and let them get away with their limited structures, it's just how good their games feel to play.
You say this when there's actually not a better example of good animations while maintaining responsive controls in the whole industry, no other TPS around gives you the amount of control mid-animations while looking as good, not a single one.
In fact, their games ruined 90% of third person games for me for this very reason, things like Tomb Raider and Evil Within are close to unplayable after Uncharted 4/Lost Legacy and TLOU and this is not an hyperbole, it's literally like going from a Ferrari 458 to a Nissan Versa Note. They feel like utter SHIT in comparison, it's harsh and rough to the point of being unbearable.
So you're either full of or just read some IL figures and misinterpreted them, because every action in their games starting with the first TLOU and especially Uncharted 4 feels as fluid and responsive as it should to feel/look the absolute most satisfying to perform.
There are some games with maybe even better animations, like Red Dead Redemptions 2, but they for sure as fuck won't feel even remotely in the same stratosphere to control. Just as there's games, mostly jap ones (RE4R absolutely not), that feel as good to play but none looks nearly as flawless.
Going prone in TLOU2 under the little tent inside the theatre and playing with the books physics using hands.. this shit would not be possible in any other game on this planet.
Honestly, my response might be a little over the top but your post really got me in a way only personal blatant misinformation would, when companies like Rockstar and CDPR exist baseless and frankly outlandish claims like this are just shocking to read, and for sure they would be for the millions of people who played ND games and compared them with the rest of this industry's offering.
I've noticed for a while Faust (and many others) opinions on TLOU but just ND in general are personally really hard to understand..
I totally get a title such as OP bringing justified reactions, but some of the response in here reads like a total and complete alternate reality. Things like these:
Is just not something I can comprehend after hundreds of hours of Grounded playthroughs. The amoung of options, outcomes and freedom in some encounters like Hillcrest o Resort is quite literally infinite in Part II.
That combined with that Grounded AI.. it's honestly the most satisfying stealth sandbox I've ever experienced and by a long damn shot, and having played the other examples provided at max difficulty is why I'm having such an hard time understanding such claims.
MGSV surely offer more options.. but does it make it better? Absolutely not and I'm flabbergasted some could answer with a yes, let alone claim they're thousands of miles apart.
I would legit buy TLOU Part II just to play the Grounded Hillcrest Houses encounter over and over and over again, not a single playthrough would be the same anyway.
Kumomeme
Member
worth to mention, that i dont think any game surpassed MGS4 combat yet. personally it is still better than its sequel.
here is gameplay demo by Kojima:
MGSV is sandbox open world game so it has stuff that MGS4 didnt have like vehicle variety and weather. but MGSV simplified lot of things that it feels like a downgrade at same time compared to MGS4. there is more depth and attention to detail the the game too. game is more linear like TLOU(which is might be a fair comparison).
for example, the close combat (CQC) in the game required proper button combo to execute specific manuever while MGSV everything just one button press.
there is also no footstep in MGSV compared to MGS4.
the shooting mechanic also has something that lot of fps game didnt have. for example the gun holding steadiness is depend on Snake's physique. if he stress for example, his hand end up shaking alot and this affected the shooting accuracy especially for sniper gun.
the music play mechanic in the game also has deeper effect. for example it could improve the steadiness of Snake's physique and his gun holding stability for more accurate shooting and it also affected his visibility
there is camo mechanic that allow Snake to blend in environment
more brief explaination :
here is gameplay demo by Kojima:
MGSV is sandbox open world game so it has stuff that MGS4 didnt have like vehicle variety and weather. but MGSV simplified lot of things that it feels like a downgrade at same time compared to MGS4. there is more depth and attention to detail the the game too. game is more linear like TLOU(which is might be a fair comparison).
for example, the close combat (CQC) in the game required proper button combo to execute specific manuever while MGSV everything just one button press.
there is also no footstep in MGSV compared to MGS4.
the shooting mechanic also has something that lot of fps game didnt have. for example the gun holding steadiness is depend on Snake's physique. if he stress for example, his hand end up shaking alot and this affected the shooting accuracy especially for sniper gun.
the music play mechanic in the game also has deeper effect. for example it could improve the steadiness of Snake's physique and his gun holding stability for more accurate shooting and it also affected his visibility
there is camo mechanic that allow Snake to blend in environment
more brief explaination :
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
I'm on my 3rd playthrough of this masterpiece and have never appreciated it more, 4 years into a new generation.
The visceral, intense and fucking brutal combat has yet to be even challenged.
4 Years into the gen. Releases from several heavy hitters studios, and no one is coming close?
This games combat is just pure insanity, and with the 4K Remaster, its even easier to appreciate, and harder to deny.
If you think another 3rd person shooter game has better combat, you're simply wrong.
This game fucking nails:
- Insane brutality
- Best hit detection in the medium.
- Best animation in the industry, making the 2 things above even more impressive.
- Incredible sound effects
- Perfect FOV
- Brilliant and aggressive AI
- Small visual details that add to the overall combat experience
Look at this fucking insane hit reaction. I shoot his leg, it falls off realistically, he falls to the ground, I shoot his head off - He gargles. FUCK!
Another example of absolute god tier hit reaction. It REALLY adds to the combat.
I shoot her leg, she falls, holding that same leg in pain, screaming. I shoot her head with a pistol. Ultra real headshot. You CAN SEE HER TOUNGE as the only remaining identifiable feature when I walk in close.
The camera is super close, making encounters like this way more intense. Again. INSANE hit reaction even in melee combat. Enemies react to every. single. hit. Ellie wipes the blood off her face mid combat, another enemy appears, beautiful hit reaction when I hit it in its neck and it falls to the ground.
Freaking blood and chunks of flesh falling from the ceiling and walls after I blow someone to bits.
Enemies are aggressive as fuck on higher difficulties. Fluid and beautiful animation just brings it all together.
Small but IMPACTFUL details - The fucking blood splatter colors the rays of light
I have been playing on Grounded mode with no HUD and .. Good lord..
All gameplay shots below. My own screenshots. Dont mind the PS5 image compression, looks better on my OLED.
You hit a mf in the head with a machete, their head splits right where you hit them. Their body slumps, eyes roll back slowly. Not a QTE. Pure raw gameplay
Blood splatter all over your hands, look at the intensity on her face. Yes, this adds to the overall combat experience.
Enemies blow up very fucking nicely,
Blood splatter, fantastic facial animations in combat
Just an untouchable combination of realism, animation, hit reaction, being visceral as fuck, realistic gore, unrivalled intensity, tension, etc.
Its not about the difficulty of stringing some flashy combo together with cookie cutter hit reaction and no substance.
Its about feeling like your character fucking hates the opponent, and anything in their way will get fucking mangled. Feeling like a killing machine, yet a vulnerable one. No other game comes close to putting all of this together, not to mention perfect controls.
At the expense of looking like a psychopath with all this gore, here is a gif of a puppy to end my thread.
There isn’t another game like TLOU 2 in existence. TLOU 2 is truly a masterpiece.