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[Giallo Corsa]

I’m not interested in replaying TLOU or TLOU2 because it’s not fun games but a story, heavy super depressing too gorey series.
I’m more of a RE4, RE2Remake, The Evil Within and Days Gone kind of guy.

I don’t want to play hyper realistic psychopath simulators.

Let me get this straight, TLOU2 is way too gory compared to...RE2RE where in its first 10 minutes you're shown an Uber close up shot of a cop with a mutilated face and with his jaw dangling , RE4 with peasants spiked to the wall via a rake through their face PLUS all the various gory mutations (Mendez/Krauzer/Salazar), The evil within where just in the 2nd stage, there's corpses rotting all around you/ hanging from the ceilings/inside bags like pieces of meat but somehow, TLOU2 is where you draw the line ?
'Cause, you know, the REs and TEWs are all about roses and rainbows, amirite ?

"Psychopath simulators"

...my man, them double standards and all that but, do you even know what you're typing ?
If you told me that you prefer playing my little pony games over violent ones I could understand that but...

Pro-tip : EVERY action game in existence (and especially shooters) revolves around - you guessed it - violence, I suppose though that - say - Call of duty games where the sole purpose is to shoot virtual peeps on the head as soon as they appear on screen is...not violent nor depressing 'cause it doesn't feature a gib system, correct ? War is fun !

The fook am I reading JFC

PS : the fact that you have Jack, a literal psychopath as your avatar makes the whole discussion/point even more cringy

 

[Vick]

Shit John Marston , thanks for the Gold!
Nice being rewarded by one of your favorite characters.

All I know is every time I see a LOU battle clip, the AI bandits are dumb as rocks as they cant see you or are smart enough to look under a car. You character's head is even bobbing up and down in plain sight from behind a ledge and it's like the enemies are blind. It's like PS1 MGS soldiers who had about 20 ft range at a 30 degree cone of vision.

The real problem is people commenting on things they never played first hand. This is it, really.

Just look at the preference/systems owned of those "complaining" about the game (meaning actual game, not its story), you'll find 99% of them never had direct experience with the software.

And again, this isn't necessarely bad. A lot of people keep claiming for "smarter enemy AI" but the truth is smart enemies with realistic perceptions aren't necessarely fun to play against.

What players actually mean when they say that (even if they themselves don't realize it) is they want more reactive enemies and NPCs. People like op would be quick to say the enemy AI is "good" for things like imploring for their lives when they're wounded or shouting friends names, but this isn't what "good enemy AI" is. Its just a handful of scripted events that have no bearing on how smart enemies actually behave during gameplay, even though it may illude some players into thinking so.

Case in point.

No, that's not in the slightest what makes Grounded AI impressive, not implying people are simpletons incapable of discerning proper intelligence would be appreciated.
And yes, it is fun, same way as playing against real humans is fun in multiplayer.

What do generic posts like this bring to a discussion? From experience absolutely nothing, they just serve to dilute and confuse the discussion.

worth to mention, that i dont think any game surpassed MGS4 combat yet. personally it is still better than its sequel.

here is gameplay demo by Kojima:



MGSV is sandbox open world game so it has stuff that MGS4 didnt have like vehicle variety and weather. but MGSV simplified lot of things that it feels like a downgrade at same time compared to MGS4. there is more depth and attention to detail the the game too. game is more linear like TLOU(which is might be a fair comparison).

for example, the close combat (CQC) in the game required proper button combo to execute specific manuever while MGSV everything just one button press.



there is also no footstep in MGSV compared to MGS4.

the shooting mechanic also has something that lot of fps game didnt have. for example the gun holding steadiness is depend on Snake's physique. if he stress for example, his hand end up shaking alot and this affected the shooting accuracy especially for sniper gun.

the music play mechanic in the game also has deeper effect. for example it could improve the steadiness of Snake's physique and his gun holding stability for more accurate shooting and it also affected his visibility



there is camo mechanic that allow Snake to blend in environment




more brief explaination :

Preach.
MGS4 is so underrated, in terms of mechanics/depth truly unparalleled. However it does feels rigid and clunky compared to its sequel.

Let me get this straight, TLOU2 is way too gory compared to...RE2RE where in it's first 10 minutes you're shown an Uber close up shot of a cop with a mutilated face and with his jaw dangling , RE4 with peasants spiked to the wall via a rake through their face PLUS all the various gory mutations (Mendez/Krauzer/Salazar), The evil within where just in the 2nd stage, there's corpses rotting all around you/ hanging from the ceilings/inside bags like pieces of meat but somehow, TLOU2 is where you draw the line ?
'Cause, you know, the REs and TEWs are all about roses and rainbows, amirite ?

"Psychopath simulators"

My man, them double standards and all, do you even know what you're typing ?
If you told me that you prefer playing my little pony games over violent games I could understand that but...

Pro-tio : EVERY action game (and especially shooters) revolve around - you guessed it - violence, I suppose though that - say - Call.of duty games where the sole purpose is to shoot virtual peeps on the head as soon as they appear on screen is...not violent nor depressing 'cause it doesn't feature a gib system , correct ? War is fun !

The fook am I reading JFC

Indeed, TLOUII is gory but not as disturbing as Resident Evil 2 Remake dismemberment was for me, that's for sure.

Well, except the Haven seraphite brute fight, that shit was legit nauseating.

 

[Kumomeme]

Preach.
MGS4 is so underrated, in terms of mechanics/depth truly unparalleled. However it does feels rigid and clunky compared to its sequel.

i wont say MGS4 is clunky. it just designed to play 'slowly'. but yep, MGSV fluidity and responsiveness in tight animation still one of the best today. it is a gold standard IMO.

 

[Guilty_AI]

No, that's not in the slightest what makes Grounded AI impressive, not implying people are simpletons incapable of discerning proper intelligence would be appreciated.
And yes, it is fun, same way as playing against real humans is fun in multiplayer.

Dunno fam. Maybe making a shake dance before immediatly screaming "I don't see her!" despite the player barely moving an inch has some amazing tactical advantage i'm unaware of.

 

[Katajx]

Depends on what you want out of it. For me the options and overall package MGS5 is better.

 

[Vick]

i wont say MGS4 is clunky. it just designed to play 'slowly'. but yep, MGSV fluidity and responsiveness in tight animation still one of the best today. it is a gold standard IMO.

It is a gold standard, no "IMO" necessary, IMO.
With MGS4 I was only comparing it with its sequel, but to be fair I only ever played it with that dreadful DualShock 3..
Still, I'm sure even with a proper controller MGSV it is not.. the running comparison would be brutal no matter what.

Dunno fam. Maybe making a shake dance, before immediatly losing sight of her despite the player barely moving an inch has some amazing tactical advantage i'm unaware of.

Yep, what you posted definitely represent the Grounded experience.
Not having seen anything like it in hundreds of hours surely is a point in favor of talking about things without direct experience.

 

[kiphalfton]

What game is this. Looks like a ripoff of the goat RE4.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Yep, what you posted definitely represent the Grounded experience.
Not having seen anything like it in hundreds of hours surely is a point in favor of talking about things without direct experience.

You could've played for 500 hours, if you play like one of the braindead zombies it won't matter. Notice how people claiming the AI in this game isn't particularly special are people used to stealth games. We know the limitations and points of abuse these games come with and we actively test them.

Shit like this for example, a classic:

 

[Danjin44]

What the fuck "next gen" means here!? If you enjoyed the gameplay great but stop with this hyperbolic nonsense.

 

[Three]

You could've played for 500 hours, if you play like one of the braindead zombies it won't matter. Notice how people claiming the AI in this game isn't particularly special are people used to stealth games. We know the limitations and points of abuse these games come with and we actively test them.

Shit like this for example, a classic:

Ok let me try replying again considering my first post was deleted. What you're showing with the AI ignoring the player after a alert timeout because they couldn't path find to the player is not representative of the game and happens in other games. Claiming its because they would know it's bad if they've played other stealth games is just plain wrong, I've had guards straight blindly walk past me in MGSV. Doesn't make it representative of the game's AI overall.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Ok let me try replying again considering my first post was deleted. What you're showing with the AI ignoring the player after a alert timeout because they couldn't path find to the player is not representative of the game and happens in other games. Claiming its because they would know it's bad if they've played other stealth games is just plain wrong, I've had guards straight blindly walk past me in MGSV. Doesn't make it representative of the game's AI overall.

I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying this game's AI is bad, i'm saying it isn't particularly outstanding as i've seen plenty of people claiming. It does pretty much what any other good stealth games do in basic encounters situations while carrying similar shortcomings. It only really loses out to the likes of MGSV because it lacks in the variety factor that game has in such encounters (and ways the enemy can respond consequently), or possibly other ways to interact with the game's enviroment you'd see in the likes of Thief and other immersive sims.

 

[Mortisfacio]

Combat feels pretty average, but it's far better than the first one. The first TLoU was pretty bad for combat, largely because the AI was completely awful. In 2 it's better, but I still think older games like Division 2 had better enemy AI.

 

[Kumomeme]

What the fuck "next gen" means here!? If you enjoyed the gameplay great but stop with this hyperbolic nonsense.

some people are confusing with actual gameplay vs animation

 

[Dirk Benedict]

I'm on my 3rd playthrough of this masterpiece and have never appreciated it more, 4 years into a new generation.

The visceral, intense and fucking brutal combat has yet to be even challenged.

4 Years into the gen. Releases from several heavy hitters studios, and no one is coming close?

This games combat is just pure insanity, and with the 4K Remaster, its even easier to appreciate, and harder to deny.

If you think another 3rd person shooter game has better combat, you're simply wrong.

This game fucking nails:

- Insane brutality
- Best hit detection in the medium.
- Best animation in the industry, making the 2 things above even more impressive.
- Incredible sound effects
- Perfect FOV
- Brilliant and aggressive AI
- Small visual details that add to the overall combat experience

Look at this fucking insane hit reaction. I shoot his leg, it falls off realistically, he falls to the ground, I shoot his head off - He gargles. FUCK!


Another example of absolute god tier hit reaction. It REALLY adds to the combat.
I shoot her leg, she falls, holding that same leg in pain, screaming. I shoot her head with a pistol. Ultra real headshot. You CAN SEE HER TOUNGE as the only remaining identifiable feature when I walk in close.


The camera is super close, making encounters like this way more intense. Again. INSANE hit reaction even in melee combat. Enemies react to every. single. hit. Ellie wipes the blood off her face mid combat, another enemy appears, beautiful hit reaction when I hit it in its neck and it falls to the ground.


Freaking blood and chunks of flesh falling from the ceiling and walls after I blow someone to bits.


Enemies are aggressive as fuck on higher difficulties. Fluid and beautiful animation just brings it all together.


Small but IMPACTFUL details - The fucking blood splatter colors the rays of light

I have been playing on Grounded mode with no HUD and .. Good lord..

All gameplay shots below. My own screenshots. Dont mind the PS5 image compression, looks better on my OLED.


You hit a mf in the head with a machete, their head splits right where you hit them. Their body slumps, eyes roll back slowly. Not a QTE. Pure raw gameplay

Blood splatter all over your hands, look at the intensity on her face. Yes, this adds to the overall combat experience.

Enemies blow up very fucking nicely,

Blood splatter, fantastic facial animations in combat

Just an untouchable combination of realism, animation, hit reaction, being visceral as fuck, realistic gore, unrivalled intensity, tension, etc.

Its not about the difficulty of stringing some flashy combo together with cookie cutter hit reaction and no substance.

Its about feeling like your character fucking hates the opponent, and anything in their way will get fucking mangled. Feeling like a killing machine, yet a vulnerable one. No other game comes close to putting all of this together, not to mention perfect controls.

At the expense of looking like a psychopath with all this gore, here is a gif of a puppy to end my thread.

Graphics/Animations do not = good gameplay.

 

[Kumomeme]

talk about MGSV, here is some of official gameplay demo for comparison :

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

Too bad they went with their own control scheme, because that part is ass. Maybe some day it will click, but it doesn’t seem like will be before the end of the game.

Also I have like 1 whole bullet for hours, then they take away my guns and I think fucking finally, maybe things will reset. No bullets in 2 minutes.

 

[Topher]

Graphics/Animations do not = good gameplay.

Yeah, but when a game like TLOU 2 comes along that has both.....it is pretty special, imo. Now.....I'm not going to go so far as to say the game has no better in the gameplay department, but I'm playing it a second time and I'm having just as much of a blast as I did the first. It is pretty amazing to me.

 

[Vick]

You could've played for 500 hours, if you play like one of the braindead zombies it won't matter. Notice how people claiming the AI in this game isn't particularly special are people used to stealth games.

Nice, again with those baseless assumptions/projections. Also not sure what that video has to do with a Grounded discussion but whatever.

The AI obviously needs to still be somewhat exploitable to a certain extent for playability reasons (the second of surprise once spotted from complete stealth phase, not constantly looking at every direction), this doesn't undermine the fact is it's far beyond alternatives in the genre. This ain't debatable.

I just came from a Grounded Permadeath (Per Act), enemies spot you immediately and from great distances, they constantly and effectively flank you, they cooperate, they are unpredictable and responsive with their own stealth, they fucking hear you reloading, they look for you in every single place of the map, they could randomly turn at every moment, etc. etc.
And no matter what you claim you won't find a person who completed the game on Grounded + ever disagreeing with this, hell just take a look at the kind of dissidents in here, people like Gordon Fearman with questionable post histories who never played the game and yet in here laughing at literal facts while putting "fire" under nonsense.

Graphics/Animations do not = good gameplay.

Would this qualify as combat/gameplay, or graphics/animations?

Combat feels pretty average, but it's far better than the first one. The first TLoU was pretty bad for combat, largely because the AI was completely awful. In 2 it's better, but I still think older games like Division 2 had better enemy AI.

What's the explanation of its combat-based multiplayer being active for 11 years then?

Spoiler

https://youtu.be/cnwSQ57OJ8U?si=bTlYibkZLuDKwshG

https://youtu.be/i4Y0DQgbLkE?si=WlHzkrSuBK3S12i2

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Yeah, but when a game like TLOU 2 comes along that has both.....it is pretty special, imo. Now.....I'm not going to go so far as to say the game has no better in the gameplay department, but I'm playing it a second time and I'm having just as much of a blast as I did the first. It is pretty amazing to me.

Does the fluidity of the two transfer to better gameplay for you? Asking this genuinely, as I have not even finished it. Waiting for it to come out on PC, lol. I have it on PS4, but no functional PS4 controllers. Gave the one I had away, my other blew out, randomly, and a brand new one, out of warranty is just dead out of the box... =(

 

[Kumomeme]

You hit a mf in the head with a machete, their head splits right where you hit them. Their body slumps, eyes roll back slowly. Not a QTE. Pure raw gameplay

here is Metal Gear Rising split SLICE mechanic at 2013.




you can cut almost anything at any angle especially human body part.



only differences it is 2013 and it is on a PS3.

 

[eats]

How can someone gargle when they don't have a head anymore?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I have a hard time with TLOU2's combat because it's a bit intentionally clunky and cumbersome to move. All these actions have consequences, and the aiming isn't smooth. It's hard to feel "good" at this game, if that makes sense.

It certainly is amazingly visceral, but I dunno if this is my ideal type of combat....I prefer something like Returnal which is fluid and feels like my fault for dying

 

[bender]

How can someone gargle when they don't have a head anymore?

Maybe they swallowed a Mentos after drinking a liter of soda before having their head cut off.

 

[Topher]

Does the fluidity of the two transfer to better gameplay for you? Asking this genuinely, as I have not even finished it. Waiting for it to come out on PC, lol. I have it on PS4, but no functional PS4 controllers. Gave the one I had away, my other blew out, randomly, and a brand new one, out of warranty is just dead out of the box... =(

Dang....that sucks. Yeah.....I would definitely wait for PC vs playing on PS4 at this point. To answer your question, I'm guessing you mean the fluidity of movement. Yeah, it does for me playing it 100% stealth (or at least trying to). Approaching enemies from behind is a matter of timing and you have to be aware that enemies may casually turn around from where they are going. Since it isn't a jerky movement, I can adjust my position to try and stay behind them, but it doesn't always work. When I get into the thick of enemies, particularly infected, then I tend to run around a lot and throw a lot of shit rather than always head for cover and take them out with guns. Guns are typically a last resort for me. So I'm doing a lot of dodge moves, counter punches/slashes. So all that quality animation plays a big role in the gameplay, imo.

 

[ShadowLag]

Different genre, BUT, if we're just talking about combat, in the words spoken at the end of this video, "let's have some fun":

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Dang....that sucks. Yeah.....I would definitely wait for PC vs playing on PS4 at this point. To answer your question, I'm guessing you mean the fluidity of movement. Yeah, it does for me playing it 100% stealth (or at least trying to). Approaching enemies from behind is a matter of timing and you have to be aware that enemies may casually turn around from where they are going. Since it isn't a jerky movement, I can adjust my position to try and stay behind them, but it doesn't always work. When I get into the thick of enemies, particularly infected, then I tend to run around a lot and throw a lot of shit rather than always head for cover and take them out with guns. Guns are typically a last resort for me. So I'm doing a lot of dodge moves, counter punches/slashes. So all that quality animation plays a big role in the gameplay, imo.

Something for me to think about. I read everything, but I wanted to highlight that.

 

[Three]

some people are confusing with actual gameplay vs animation

They are one and the same usually. Animation is after all movement of an object that's important to gameplay, the enemy and yourself. Things you're aiming at, stunning, hitting, telegraphing and avoiding .
He already shared example videos in the OP. Here is another example of gamplay and animation working together for example. Shooting the guy in the leg resulting in realistic enemy movement/behaviour



This is a gamplay element. It's hit boxes moving and reacting realistically to player interaction. In fact the enemy attacks are based on their surroundings and whether they can perform a particular animated attack without clipping through objects. performing only specific attacks from a long list that result in a realistic animation. Other games often just have the enemy perform simple repeated attacks unrealistically regardless of surroundings. The upside is that it looks fantastic and realistic too.
In comparison MGSV can get pretty dopey looking. Doesn't take away from the variety of gadgets and options in the sandbox gameplay.

 

[Danjin44]

Different genre, BUT, if we're just talking about combat, in the words spoken at the end of this video, "let's have some fun":

b...but the combat here is bad because its not "grounded"......./s

 

[BiohazardX95]

Re4 remake plays even worse than the original, don't know why people think it plays better than tlou2. Re6 is a much superior Game than re4 remake in gameplay.

 

[bender]

What the fuck "next gen" means here!? If you enjoyed the gameplay great but stop with this hyperbolic nonsense.

Muramasa: The Demon Blade is soon to be last, last, last generation combat.

 

[Alex11]

here is Metal Gear Rising split slice mechanic at 2013.

Fucking wow at the part where he cuts the stairs, then makes new ones by cutting the support legs, now that is what I like to see, this should have been they way forward for next-gen gameplay.

 

[Danjin44]

Muramasa: The Demon Blade is soon to be last, last, last generation combat.

It can be next gen, last gen or whatever the fuck gen people want to call it, it doesn't change I had tons of fun with the combat.

Also the game just fucking gorgeous!

 

[Mortisfacio]

\What's the explanation of its combat-based multiplayer being active for 11 years then?

Spoiler

Actually, nevermind. It's a GAF Naughty Dog Thread, as far as I've seen they're all playgrounds for all but people playing their games.

Runescape has a pretty boring tedious grind, but it's still chugging. So kind of an irrelevant point. The part after what you highlighted, where I said the AI sucks and is a large reason why the first TLoU sucked as far as combat/core gameplay goes:

This AI is terrible.

 

[bender]

It can be next gen, last gen or whatever the fuck gen people want to call it, it doesn't change I had tons fun with the combat.

Also the game just fucking gorgeous!

You play with your Wii.

 

[RaduN]

MgsV, Re4 - characters have actual weight and don't ever feel like they're skating on ice.

Thlou shit the bed in terms of simple left/right/up/down character motions.

 

[Represent.]

Graphics/Animations do not = good gameplay.

Graphics and animation enhance already good gameplay. making it great
objectively

How can someone gargle when they don't have a head anymore?

Your throat still works- Head/=neck. Making it even more brilliant

MgsV, Re4 - characters have actual weight and don't ever feel like they're skating on ice.

Thlou shit the bed in terms of simple left/right/up/down character motions.

The weight in TLOU games are perfect. not too much, not too little. Ellie feels nimble and flexible, Abby feels more athletic and tank like

 

[Vick]

Re4 remake plays even worse than the original, don't know why people think it plays better than tlou2. Re6 is a much superior Game than re4 remake in gameplay.

I just disagree with the use of "even". As OG RE4 gameplay is perfect RE4R is not "even worse" than OG, it's just worse.

Nice to see some RE6 gameplay appreaciation, in terms of mechanics that was a phenomenal game possibly still on top.
It just needed in-between animations as the lack of gradual speed control while walking/running truly undermined some of the enjoyment for me. They absolutely nailed that with RE2R, in terms of visual feedback at least.

 

[Represent.]

Lets see what GTA6 does. I expect big things from that gore/physics system. NOTHING else is fucking with this game until then.

God bless NeoGAF when TLOU3 is out, I am making 30 TLOU 3 combat threads.

 

[DForce]

John Marston Thanks for the gold!

 

[Aces High]

I've finished every Naughty Dog game and addon since Uncharted 1 at least once.

While they are the cream of the crop in terms of writing (except part two), pacing (except part two), aesthetics and animations, I never found the combat system to be anything special.

The two TLOU games are on the better side. Uncharted 4 had very clunky combat. Chrystal Dynamics' Tomb Raider reboot has much tighter controls. I always found it much more enjoyable combar-wise. The Resident Evil remakes are also superior in terms of combat.

 

[GymWolf]

I’m not interested in replaying TLOU or TLOU2 because it’s not fun games but a story, heavy super depressing too gorey series.
I’m more of a RE4, RE2Remake, The Evil Within and Days Gone kind of guy.

I don’t want to play hyper realistic psychopath simulators.

Days gone is bleak as hell and deacon is a certified psycho tho.

 

[Famipan]

Days gone is bleak as hell and deacon is a certified psycho tho.

Have you finished it? I have finished it around 7 times and never get tired of it.

Did you play through Challenges? It’s the best arcade mode in any video game IMO.

 

[Famipan]

Let me get this straight, TLOU2 is way too gory compared to...RE2RE where in its first 10 minutes you're shown an Uber close up shot of a cop with a mutilated face and with his jaw dangling , RE4 with peasants spiked to the wall via a rake through their face PLUS all the various gory mutations (Mendez/Krauzer/Salazar), The evil within where just in the 2nd stage, there's corpses rotting all around you/ hanging from the ceilings/inside bags like pieces of meat but somehow, TLOU2 is where you draw the line ?
'Cause, you know, the REs and TEWs are all about roses and rainbows, amirite ?

"Psychopath simulators"

...my man, them double standards and all that but, do you even know what you're typing ?
If you told me that you prefer playing my little pony games over violent ones I could understand that but...

Pro-tip : EVERY action game in existence (and especially shooters) revolves around - you guessed it - violence, I suppose though that - say - Call of duty games where the sole purpose is to shoot virtual peeps on the head as soon as they appear on screen is...not violent nor depressing 'cause it doesn't feature a gib system, correct ? War is fun !

The fook am I reading JFC

PS : the fact that you have Jack, a literal psychopath as your avatar makes the whole discussion/point even more cringy

The difference is The Evil Within and RE4OG (haven’t played the remake yet) is purely video gamey games compared to TLOU2 which goes for more realism IMO.
RE2R is gorey and I have a hard time replaying it since I get a bit disgusted by the gore yes.

TEW is though a fantasy dream world with super video gamey zombies with glowing eyes, and that and RE4 has some humor which I prefer over getting depressed by TLOU-series.

And yes, I stopped playing violent games for a break and now only play Sky:COTL. Try it yourself too! You might become even more nice

I have a picture of Jack before he became infected. The nice kind old Jack.

 

[GymWolf]

Have you finished it? I have finished it around 7 times and never get tired of it.

Did you play through Challenges? It’s the best arcade mode in any video game IMO.

Finished 3 times yes, not sure what that has to do with deacon being a psycho or the game being bleak as hell

Hell, i think that the scenes

Spoiler

where you kill the dog, when you kill taylor and when you kill the woman that is took in hostage by the reapers are as heavy as anything inside tlou2, same for the voice acting

Days gone 2 with tlou2 combat would be a dream game for many.

 

[Guilty_AI]

this doesn't undermine the fact is it's far beyond alternatives in the genre. This ain't debatable.

I just came from a Grounded Permadeath (Per Act), enemies spot you immediately and from great distances, they constantly and effectively flank you, they cooperate, they are unpredictable and responsive with their own stealth, they fucking hear you reloading, they look for you in every single place of the map, they could randomly turn at every moment, etc. etc.

You actually don't know shit man, you haven't played the game.

I don't know what to tell you man. Its incredibly hard to take you seriously when you think spotting from a distance is a sign of good AI - thats literally just a tweak of a value and not at all hard to do, multiple stealth games have enemies be more "blind" for the sake of pacing and difficulty more than anything else, not because the developers are unable to change a number from 100 to 300. Stuff like flanking and cooperation is also pretty basic behaviour for this kind of game, the fact you think this is anything special once again makes me think its you who haven't properly played other games like this.

There's a moment i remember from the game, ellie was inside a store and shot at an enemy outside. Naturally he came in and started shooting back. She hid behind one magazine display and eventually the enemy "lost sight of her". What do you think he did, sweeped through the store? Checked her last known location? Nope, he went right back outside from the way he came in to resume his predetermined patrol route. Its a very common thing i noticed throughout the game. You will never convince me this game is "undebatably far beyond alternatives in the genre" when the game's AI still has basic holes like this.

 

[GooseMan69]

I’m a huge fan of third person shooter/stealth games. It’s easily my favorite genre. I have played all the classics extensively. RE4, Max Payne 3, Chaos Theory, Phantom Pain, etc. TLOU Part II is the best and I’m not even sure it’s that close.

Put it on a higher difficulty and NOTHING compares. Enemy AI shouting each others names, calling out your position, coordinating attacks, threatening you, etc. It’s so unbelievably visceral. Level design is incredible. It feels sooo so good weaving in and out of broken down buildings, diving into tall grass while trying to lose the enemy and whatnot. All while having next to no ammo.

I’ve been playing No Return and have had multiple sequences that looked like a bullshit scripted E3 demo. It’s so fucking good.

And the audio though…hugely underrated component. There was one time I was able to pinpoint where an enemy was based on their breathing, because they had just chased me through a parking garage and they were breathing more heavily than that normally would. Incredible. I LOVE shit like that.

 

[Famipan]

Finished 3 times yes, not sure what that has to do with deacon being a psycho or the game being bleak as hell

Hell, i think that the scenes

Spoiler

where you kill the dog, when you kill taylor and when you kill the woman that is took in hostage by the reapers are as heavy as anything inside tlou2, same for the voice acting

Days gone 2 with tlou2 combat would be a dream game for many.

Ok I see! With bleak I though you meant it felt dull.

Yes those are really horrible scenes that I tend to forget, skip or not watch tbh.

For TLOU2 I think the main interest is the story and not the gameplay. But there’s less variation in gameplay for me in TLOU series. I like the puzzle parts and walking around exploring stuff. The fast zombies and that is too stressful for me compared to other games. It’s the same reason I can’t play Dying Light (first person zoomed in gore and running zombies and night time ultra zombies)

In Days Gone I like the horde mechanics and the cover shooting and most gameplay things. The story is not that important for me in DG although it’s still good.

 

[GymWolf]

I don't know what to tell you man. Its incredibly hard to take you seriously when you think spotting from a distance is a sign of good AI - thats literally just a tweak of a value and not at all hard to do, multiple stealth games have enemies be more "blind" for the sake of pacing and difficulty more than anything else, not because the developers are unable to change a number from 100 to 300. Stuff like flanking and cooperation is also pretty basic behaviour for this kind of game, the fact you think this is anything special once again makes me think its you haven't properly played other games like this.

There's a moment i remember from the game, ellie was inside a store and shot at an enemy outside. Naturally he came in and started shooting back. She hid behind one magazine display and eventually the enemy "lost sight of her". What do you think he did, sweeped through the store? Nope, he went right back outside from the way he came in to resume his predetermined patrol route. Its a very common thing i noticed throughout the game. You will never convince me this game is "undebatably far beyond alternatives in the genre" when the game's AI still has basic holes like this.

Not only that, there are parts where you just find a good place where to stealthly kill enemies and there are bodies and bodies on the ground, they always send 1 or 2 men max even if you are killing everyone they send, and even if they see a huge body pile they act the same way, they have the same internal timer for alert state etc, they just don't adapt in real time to different situations and they lack any self-awareness about the gravity of the situation (even if they vocalize that, it doesn't actually change their routine, so again, smoke and mirrors)


Calling death people names and giving away their research strategy in a very vocal way make people think that they are actually smart, but their internal routine is usually as stupid as most enemies in games, flanking is definitely nothing new since a while, when tlou1 wasn't glitching, even that game had very good flanking, and other games before that did the same, i honestly forgot the last tps i played where i can clear a room on hard from behind a cover without ever moving from that position...

And before people start with that absolute shit narrative about IA being too smart not being fun to play against, get politely the fuck out of here.

These games have not 2, not 3, not 4, they have 5 fucking difficulty modes, if you are really capable of making Human IA, put that on grounded and leave the stupid but "fun" ia for the other 4 level of difficulty so people can chose the experience they want, this is why different difficulty modes are created for, there is no counter-argument to this, you don't ruin the game for anyone and people who want an extreme challenge can have it like you promised in your trailers, even more stupid when you think that both tlou1 and tlou2 trailer were super praised for the IA so people were super ok about playing against a human like IA, but they were obviously fake.

The reality is that making human like IA that doesn't cheat and feels fair is incredibly difficult and they have no idea on how to achieve it properly, the rest is a pathetic excuse for people who can't do 2+2.

P.s. and even if you want to play grounded for the scarce resources and other difficult aspect but you want an easier IA, you can do it because these games have personalized difficulty mode, so not even a good excuse.

P.p.s. vick you know i like you, and i'm not saying that tlou2 has a bad ia, it's more convincing than many other tps, just not as good or smart as people think.

 

[GymWolf]

Ok I see! With bleak I though you meant it felt dull.

Yes those are really horrible scenes that I tend to forget, skip or not watch tbh.

For TLOU2 I think the main interest is the story and not the gameplay. But there’s less variation in gameplay for me in TLOU series. I like the puzzle parts and walking around exploring stuff. The fast zombies and that is too stressful for me compared to other games. It’s the same reason I can’t play Dying Light (first person zoomed in gore and running zombies and night time ultra zombies)

In Days Gone I like the horde mechanics and the cover shooting and most gameplay things. The story is not that important for me in DG although it’s still good.

The opposite for me, i could not care less for the story or the "puzzles" of tlou, i play for the combat, animations, violence, digital acting, stealth and graphic.

I love heavy, violent games with great animations and decent IA so tlou is a luna park for me.

 

[Mercenary09]

It really is top notch. I personally think MGS5 still has the best third-person gameplay in any game almost 10 years later but I would put TLOU Part 2 right behind it. They were clearly inspired by MGS5 when they made that game.