Too busy making it rain to care anymore.
When your kid says "none of your business", how do you respond?
- Thread starter RustyNails
- Start date
- NSFW
- Status
Too busy making it rain to care anymore.
Juke Joint Jezebel
Member
Bingo! My dad used to say that a lot, and in my older sister's case it was the right thing to do. She got buddied up with some pretty nasty people, and questioning her recent ratty behaviour, and grounding her after finding her stashing some pretty serious drugs for her new "friends" in her room, was grounded for a long ass time, that group soon lost interest in her, and a potential bullet was dodged there!
there are studies and there is reality that most of us experienced when it was fine to slap your kid every now and then. we're just fine.
CornBurrito
Member
Positive punishment: Application of undesirable stimuli in order to discourage a behavior. Examples: Getting an electric shock if you get caught not paying attention. Most people don't like getting electric shocks.
Negative punishment: Removal of desirable stimuli in order to discourage a behavior. Examples: Having video games/internet/dinner taken away for talking back.
Positive reinforcement: Rewards given for positive behavior. Examples: Giving your child a high five for scoring a soccer goal.
Negative reinforcement: The removal of undesirable stimuli in order to encourage a behavior. Example: Your car makes an obnoxious beeping sound when you don't buckle up. People tend to buckle up to get rid of the annoying sound.
Cheat sheet: Positive = Addition of something. Negative = Removal of something
Reinforcement: Wants to increase the likelihood of a behavior being repeated.
Punishment: Wants to decrease the likelihood of a behavior being repeated.
Science deniers gonna deny science.
Protip: The science doesn't say hitting/slapping will 100% fuck up a kid. It simply says it is the least effective of the 4 above methods for altering human behavior. Sorry if you have trouble with that concept.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Yeah, that's why I just said threaten. If my kid had the balls to stand up to me after that I'd probably cave and say "Aaargh, I can't do it. But season 3 is really good!".
I think once they start paying rent that some rules will change and that's fair. Especially if the child is above the age of 19.
However there shouldn't usually be any attitude unless it's a parent being pushy and controlling.
So then why do I know so many people messed up from corporal punishment?
IchigoSharingan
Member
I recall respecting your child first and foremost nets you their eternal respect.
You're a GAFfer, you're obviously not fine.
social science? yeah I'll take that with a huge pinch of salt.
My parents never hitted me and i would always listen when they asked me something to do. There are many different ways to correct a childs behaviour. And hitting is lazy. Also i find it very scary when someone can hit their own child. Something is very wrong with such person.
I tried the "None of your business" once and I got smacked before I could even finish the line. Went with "Don't worry about it" after that to far better results.
I figured most kids just made up shit when their parents pestered them about what they did. 99% of the time it's not like they'll ever find out what really happened anyway.
I figured most kids just made up shit when their parents pestered them about what they did. 99% of the time it's not like they'll ever find out what really happened anyway.
echoshifting
Banned
My dad beat me up when I was 12 cause I was caught smoking weed. I smoke weed still today but I have never had a real conversation with my dad but I still would never talk back to him cause how afraid I am of him.
My mom hits me but in a mom kind of way. She's very irrational so having a conversation will never work but with her I can talk to and tell her what's up.
Be annoying but don't scare your kid.
My mom hits me but in a mom kind of way. She's very irrational so having a conversation will never work but with her I can talk to and tell her what's up.
Be annoying but don't scare your kid.
CornBurrito
Member
Why exactly?
Because you don't understand what it actually says?
It simply says that positive punishment is the least effective method. That doesn't mean it is necessarily bad for kids, or completely ineffective at altering behavior. You do know what the word "least" means right?
Your objections suggest that you don't because "I ended up fine" doesn't contradict anything that those studies say.
If anecdotes are so great, I wasn't hit as a child and I'm extremely afraid of disobeying authority. I don't think my parents ever had to ground me. If I did something wrong I'd often self report it instead of trying to hide it from my parents.
sooperkool
Member
How many people in this thread have raised a child to adulthood? These threads are so funny to me.
Agreed. You have real science and then you have social "science".
FunkyMunkey
Banned
In a perfect world yeah, but some kids just grow up to be rotten apples, even with good parents.
Mine's 14. Not dead yet! Not in prison! Hasn't gotten anyone pregnant!
Who wants to touch me?
CornBurrito
Member
Can you explain why the studies I'm referring to are flawed? Or is this going to be circular reasoning "social science is never valid because social science is never valid."
Funny how people in general are so accepting of social science whenever social scientists do experiments to confirm something they want to be true, ie. the pervasiveness of subtle racism in modern society.
Prophet Steve
Member
Pro Tip: Don't have kids. When children are raised to trust parents then you don't have to hit them at all. No child is going to fully trust someone he/she sees only a few hours a day on sometimes on the weekend.
Good try though Doc.
It's scary you think lack of corporal punishment is why children are more cocky and not, you know, these parents failing to do actual parenting?
If your solution is to hit a child then you've failed as a parent. That is the ultimate lazy route a parent can go down. You're supposed to be a role model to your child. Be there for them and trust them and make sure they trust you. How exactly can a child do any of that when you're hitting them?
well I should have elaborated: slapping your kids can sometimes be the most effective way of punishment in my experience. not always.
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
Weirdly enough, this is the exact opposite for me. Maybe because I'm Caribbean but basically everyone I know who has gotten spanked love their parents and will do anything for them. The kids I know who didn't are the worst of the worst people I know. Some of them put their own hands on their parents, curse at them, throw temper tantrums and cause havoc.
I'm bailing from this thread however because my experience and opinions will never be of the majority.
Stick your bad kid's hand in a pot of water on the stove and tell them the temperature at which water boils and then how long it takes for that pot to reach that temperature. Then ask them where they were.
SCIENCE!
IchigoSharingan
Member
Asserting your personal boundaries so hard that you push away your parents in the later years of your teenage life seems like excess to me. I think it's quite possible to maintain your personal boundaries while still keeping an open and honest relationship with your parents, and if you don't have that, you get the 'none of your business' spiel.
echoshifting
Banned
Hey, I think some people must have missed this
Laughing in the face of children you don't have sounds serious.
IchigoSharingan
Member
Hispanic/latino families are able to 'better' accept corporal punishment because for some reason the parents are loving. In Europe it's not exactly the case so the relationships aren't as strong and some of the children do not view the parents so highly.
AtomskEater
Member
justjustin
Member
Tell the kid why you want to know. It's honest, and if you're lucky you'll guilt trip some sort of answer out of the kid by showing you care.
It's what my parents did to me. They never appealed to rules or obligations or stupid answers that I could poke holes in. Basically, they never gave me any ammo to work with so it was always just easier to open up to them. And it felt better in the long run.
echoshifting
Banned
It probably is excessive. As I said, it would result in punishment. I was merely pointing out the hyperbolic absurdity of "you have failed as a parent" that you and several others were pushing earlier in the thread.
Raonak
Banned
As a guy who got hit when he was a kid, I definitely think there are other ways to discipline kids than slapping them.
Being banned from my electronics was a far more effective method for me. Because the pain of getting hit only lasted a second, while being grounded had a lasting effect.
Me getting hit just made me distant from my parents tbh.
Being banned from my electronics was a far more effective method for me. Because the pain of getting hit only lasted a second, while being grounded had a lasting effect.
Me getting hit just made me distant from my parents tbh.
CornBurrito
Member
I'm open to the idea that in some cases, the other methods my prove useless. But that isn't the general case as seen in many many many many behavioral studies done with animals and humans.
And sure, it is social science. But these principles are used to alter human and animal behavior. The results can be seen. Denying them is like denying climate change or evolution at this point. Police dogs are trained using positive/negative reinforcement these days rather than positive punishment (smacking with newspapers) and it is shown to be more effective at making better police dogs.
Prisons in other countries use reinforcement to alter inmate behavior and they have LOWER recidivism rates than the US.
This isn't theoretical social science anymore. This stuff is used in real life and has proven results. The social science in this case is sound. Ignoring it because "lol social science" is pure ignorance.
But how were these kids raised? Was the parent just letting them do whatever they want and excusing any negative behavior?
And there's always going to be kids that come out of things fine. My parents used to do corporal punishment when I was young and it scared the shit out of me. I almost never forgave them but when I got older they began to connect better with me and that's why I can trust my parents now. I still have some negative problems that came from it all but in general I turned out fine.
Machine
Member
The burden of proof is on the person making the assertion. Claiming there is "research" without giving us references is not proof. Opposition to corporal punishment is not universal in psychologists. I found this quote interesting:
"The evidence presented in the meta-analysis does not justify a blanket injunction against mild to moderate disciplinary spanking," conclude Baumrind and her team. Baumrind et al. also conclude that "a high association between corporal punishment and physical abuse is not evidence that mild or moderate corporal punishment increases the risk of abuse."
Baumrind et al. suggest that those parents whose emotional make-up may cause them to cross the line between appropriate corporal punishment and physical abuse should be counseled not to use corporal punishment as a technique to discipline their children. But, that other parents could use mild to moderate corporal punishment effectively. "The fact that some parents punish excessively and unwisely is not an argument, however, for counseling all parents not to punish at all."
I'm not a parent but will be in the next few years hopefully.
That said, I'd 'hope' to have raised my kids to be able to talk to me but if they say something like "none of your business" I suppose it'd depend on their tone. If they intend to be rude or would just rather not talk about it.
If they were trying to be rude, I'd obviously scold them and show them that I am disappointed in how rude they were. Maybe ground, depends on if they argue back.
If they would just rather not talk about it but don't snap towards me, then I'd just emphasize that I am always there if they wish to chat and then just get on with whatever I'm doing.
Of course maybe I'll do something different from these when I am actually a parent but it's how I imagine I would respond. I would say if the kid lives with you then it is your business but it could easily hurt your relationship with the kid if you try to argue with them.
And then you'll end up on the Jeremy Kyle show (or equivalent depending on your country) because of it. Not something many would want to deal with I imagine
That said, I'd 'hope' to have raised my kids to be able to talk to me but if they say something like "none of your business" I suppose it'd depend on their tone. If they intend to be rude or would just rather not talk about it.
If they were trying to be rude, I'd obviously scold them and show them that I am disappointed in how rude they were. Maybe ground, depends on if they argue back.
If they would just rather not talk about it but don't snap towards me, then I'd just emphasize that I am always there if they wish to chat and then just get on with whatever I'm doing.
Of course maybe I'll do something different from these when I am actually a parent but it's how I imagine I would respond. I would say if the kid lives with you then it is your business but it could easily hurt your relationship with the kid if you try to argue with them.
And then you'll end up on the Jeremy Kyle show (or equivalent depending on your country) because of it. Not something many would want to deal with I imagine
Lord Fagan
Junior Member
I'm pretty sure I'm in the camp of people who believe it's easier to hit somebody than to out-think them.
CornBurrito
Member
That study you linked contradicts nothing I've said.
I've never said that corporal punishment can't be effective.
- Status