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Where did the computer go? The all-new iMac G5

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I

Incognito

Troll
why don't you shut the fuck up already, shogmaster? jesus christ. every other reply in this thread is from you bitching about apple. i don't give a shit if you don't like it, or OMG THEY DIDNT INNOVATE, other people would like to read this thread without your incessant fucking trolling.

it's every goddamn apple thread, too. and i'm not even an apple fan. jesus.
 
S

shantyman

WHO DEY!?
The Faceless Master said:
that's what i thought...
Click to expand...

What is with the obsession with upgradability? Do people really add more to a PC than RAM or a hard drive usually? For a real upgrade you need to add a new MOB and CPU anyway. What are you saving, the $100 on the case?

This is the most overrated reason to not buy an all in one machine. Don't like it? Buy a Powermac. iMac is a consumer/basic machine. Try to understand the 2 markets apple sells their computers to.
 
S

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
I kind of like the G4 iMac design with the swivel screen better (I honestly thought they would pimp that a little longer) But if I am going to spring for an expensive ass Mac (which I do like btw I post on an iBook everyday) I would want the tower and one of those bad ass aluminum cinema displays.

My next purchase is a self built PC though, so apple will have to wait a little longer for my dollars.
 
T

tedtropy

$50/hour, but no kissing on the lips and colors must be pre-separated
shantyman said:
What is with the obsession with upgradability? Do people really add more to a PC than RAM or a hard drive usually? For a real upgrade you need to add a new MOB and CPU anyway. What are you saving, the $100 on the case?

This is the most overrated reason to not buy an all in one machine. Don't like it? Buy a Powermac. iMac is a consumer/basic machine. Try to understand the 2 markets apple sells their computers to.
Click to expand...

Well, I can understand his concern in this, because with such a machine, your upgrade options are extremely limited and a siginificant chunk of the money put towards this purchase will be towards the integrated LCD. Now while that LCD will no doubt be very nice for years to come, it's doubtful one could say the same about the processor/hard drive/etc. When the machine becomes limiting, you'll also have to forfeit that nice display as it is essentially fused with the machine. While it's true that most big upgrades involve basically buying a new computer, I've kept the same displays through several computer change-outs, and that's really not an option here. Still, I love Apple's design and it's a great looking machine...
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
tedtropy said:
Well, I can understand his concern in this, because with such a machine, your upgrade options are extremely limited and a siginificant chunk of the money put towards this purchase will be towards the integrated LCD. Now while that LCD will no doubt be very nice for years to come, it's doubtful one could say the same about the processor/hard drive/etc. When the machine becomes limiting, you'll also have to forfeit that nice display as it is essentially fused with the machine. While it's true that most big upgrades involve basically buying a new computer, I've kept the same displays through several computer change-outs, and that's really not an option here. Still, I love Apple's design and it's a great looking machine...
Click to expand...

Exactly. A good monitor costs as much as or more than the computer itself. When you upgrade a computer, you hardly ever have particularily good reason to upgrade the monitor as well. I've bought 3 monitors in the last ten years, two are still in use, and in that time I've had somewhere around 6 computers. I'm probably going to upgrade to LCDs soonish, but I don't want to have to invest in both a computer and a monitor in order to do that. If I, a computer person, don't want to make that kind of recurring investment, I don't see why a newb would, or even why they should be encouraged to. It just doubles the price of their next hardware upgrade.
 
K

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
shantyman said:
What is with the obsession with upgradability? Do people really add more to a PC than RAM or a hard drive usually? For a real upgrade you need to add a new MOB and CPU anyway. What are you saving, the $100 on the case?

This is the most overrated reason to not buy an all in one machine. Don't like it? Buy a Powermac. iMac is a consumer/basic machine. Try to understand the 2 markets apple sells their computers to.
Click to expand...

The upgradability fixation IMHO is the result of PCs as game platform and PCs as homebuilt kitbash exercises. "Hardcore" PC people preach a Do It Yourself ethic, and the PC Gamer crowd is sucked into the insane upgrade cycle to play unoptimized software at survivable framerates every six months. (Spending the same amount of money as an entire game console costs, every year, in some cases, twice a year.) The thing is, there is some rational behind the snubbing of pre-built and Big Company PCs - because they have a bad habit of sucking hard. Mass-market PC makers are often shoddy, create machines with poor performance due to properitary motherboards and stuff that are not very good, etc.

This seems to have lead to Build It Yourself as a religion, and anything you can't take apart and put back together with all new parts in every bit of it is a piece of crap for "old grannies and children". It's kinda like Jock Geeking or something.

The thing is, people don't think this way over stuff like DVD recorders, home theatre recievers, and other expensive and complex pieces of consumer electronics. Apple falls into the category, in my view, of a company that makes products which are high end (high end means more than CLOCK SPEED kids) but not quite for the do-it-yourself super geek. And honestly, in terms of overall industrial engineering and design, they do a far better job than most prebuilt computer makers on the PC side. The same prejudice gets leveled against them however, regardless of the difference in quality and the segment of the market at which their products are aimed.

I don't consider much of Apple's pricing "outrageous" for what their products are - the arguement against their supposedly high prices seems to come from years in the past when they did have extremely high prices for the relative value of the hardware, and from people who want to be able to build a 4000ghz box for $300. If you build something yourself, good god, you're always going to be able to make it cheaper. Crucifying a company for their prebuilt equipment being more expensive than buying components directly and putting something together yourself is stupid.
 
F

FortNinety

Member
HalfPastNoon said:
why don't you shut the fuck up already, shogmaster? jesus christ. every other reply in this thread is from you bitching about apple. i don't give a shit if you don't like it, or OMG THEY DIDNT INNOVATE, other people would like to read this thread without your incessant fucking trolling.

it's every goddamn apple thread, too. and i'm not even an apple fan. jesus.
Click to expand...

heheh...

As much as I publically hate Mac zombies, I am annoyed by PC users going overboard with the Apple hate.

Oh, one more thing... I just wish Apple went with Bluetooth keyboard and mice. That and the stand should be all white. But as is, it's a pretty nice design; straight on, it looks just like an eMac, which despite my problems with the monitor, I really like design-wise.
 
S

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
FortNinety said:
h
Oh, one more thing... I just wish Apple went with Bluetooth keyboard and mice.
Click to expand...
um what do you mean? Apple makes all white blutooth keyboards and mice. or did you mean included?
 
P

Prospero

Member
Kaijima said:
The upgradability fixation IMHO is the result of PCs as game platform and PCs as homebuilt kitbash exercises. "Hardcore" PC people preach a Do It Yourself ethic, and the PC Gamer crowd is sucked into the insane upgrade cycle to play unoptimized software at survivable framerates every six months. (Spending the same amount of money as an entire game console costs, every year, in some cases, twice a year.)
Click to expand...

IAWTP.
 
T

tedtropy

$50/hour, but no kissing on the lips and colors must be pre-separated
Kaijima said:
The upgradability fixation IMHO is the result of PCs as game platform and PCs as homebuilt kitbash exercises. "Hardcore" PC people preach a Do It Yourself ethic, and the PC Gamer crowd is sucked into the insane upgrade cycle to play unoptimized software at survivable framerates every six months. (Spending the same amount of money as an entire game console costs, every year, in some cases, twice a year.) The thing is, there is some rational behind the snubbing of pre-built and Big Company PCs - because they have a bad habit of sucking hard. Mass-market PC makers are often shoddy, create machines with poor performance due to properitary motherboards and stuff that are not very good, etc.

This seems to have lead to Build It Yourself as a religion, and anything you can't take apart and put back together with all new parts in every bit of it is a piece of crap for "old grannies and children". It's kinda like Jock Geeking or something.

The thing is, people don't think this way over stuff like DVD recorders, home theatre recievers, and other expensive and complex pieces of consumer electronics. Apple falls into the category, in my view, of a company that makes products which are high end (high end means more than CLOCK SPEED kids) but not quite for the do-it-yourself super geek. And honestly, in terms of overall industrial engineering and design, they do a far better job than most prebuilt computer makers on the PC side. The same prejudice gets leveled against them however, regardless of the difference in quality and the segment of the market at which their products are aimed.

I don't consider much of Apple's pricing "outrageous" for what their products are - the arguement against their supposedly high prices seems to come from years in the past when they did have extremely high prices for the relative value of the hardware, and from people who want to be able to build a 4000ghz box for $300. If you build something yourself, good god, you're always going to be able to make it cheaper. Crucifying a company for their prebuilt equipment being more expensive than buying components directly and putting something together yourself is stupid.
Click to expand...

I agree that Apple makes some top-notch stuff in terms of quality, but I'm not sure if their products can be compared to home theater electronics. There's a certain base of standards that those electronics have to meet, where as with computers, software will invariably get to a point where it will pass the recommended ability of a computer. My old-ass DVD player will still play a modern DVD, up to the point where it just physically breaks. Still, you're likely to gets years of good use out of an Apple machine (depending on your expectations), although that does not imply that the two types of products correlate. Preferring a PC or preferring a Mac all comes down to individual expectation. Alot of PC-owners are hardcore gamers, and people in that arena like the ability to upgrade on a whim. I don't think that it makes one better or worse than the other. Frankly, I like both types of machines and can only afford one. ;)
 
S

SteveMeister

Hang out with Steve.
FortNinety said:
Oh, one more thing... I just wish Apple went with Bluetooth keyboard and mice. That and the stand should be all white. But as is, it's a pretty nice design; straight on, it looks just like an eMac, which despite my problems with the monitor, I really like design-wise.
Click to expand...

For $99 you can select the Bluetooth module and the Apple wireless keyboard & mouse if you order from the Apple Store.
 
F

FortNinety

Member
scola said:
um what do you mean? Apple makes all white blutooth keyboards and mice. or did you mean included?
Click to expand...

I meant included.

Well after watching the vid, it funny seeing Apple push the iPod connection so hard. Almost to an embarassing degree. I wonder how many people will buy a new iMac based on this connection alone. Perhaps quite a few maybe. Afterall, the iPod mini sold even though it's clearly not worth the money.
 
B

BuddyC

Member
Shogmaster said:
Debating? That's been over for while man. I won. ;) And why bash on Macs so much? Because Mac fans make it so damn fun. I love my job.
Click to expand...

stopposting.gif


Really, I just wanted an excuse to use this.
 
B

BuddyC

Member
FortNinety said:
Nice... is that what you're using the Macs at school for to make?
Click to expand...
Alas, I wish. My class is using the Mac lab for graphic design work, specifically with InDesign.
 
F

Freestyler

Member
How fun is InDesign! I just love it. Sadly though we had to do a big module on QuarkXpress, which is the most godawful layout program in my opinion. I can't wait till InDesign finally edges out Quark in sales/usage. The integration that InDesign has with native Photoshop and Illustrator files makes things so damn easy.

So these iMacs will be shipping worldwide in mid-September, I hope they don't jack up the price too bad here in New Zealand (the local Apple people put a fairly big markup on all the Apple products).

That video with the Black Eyed Peas is way fun.
 
S

Shogmaster

Member
shantyman said:
Hey Shog, this is Bryan from Cincinnati, remember me?

Come one, you were one of the biggest Sega fanboys back in the day? Why hate Apple people for being passionate about what they like? 6 years ago I should have told you how PS2 would crush Dural and/or Katana and/or Dreamcast just to get a reaction out of you.
Click to expand...

Hey Bryan! What's up man? Escaped from Cincinnasty yet? If you haven't, I'll be visiting in October for my sister's wedding. Maybe we can meet up at the old Forest Fair mall arcade if it's still there. :D I wouldn't be totally shocked if the VF3 machine is still there.

Yep, my Sega passion is long gone now. I still play games but without spending too much time obsessing about the "industry" like I use to when we hung out at the arcade (ah.... school days.... before the real world ruined everything). I stopped caring after I worked in the industry for a bit (for a company that was making a DC game to boot). Funny that.

Phoenix said:
BTW, how well are those tablet PC sales doing these days
:D
Click to expand...

Probably amounts to only about 6% of the market. ;) :D :p
 
L

Laurent

Member
What if that new iMac falls down of your desktop by accident? It's 18.5 pounds is suspended on such a fragile (and probably light) neck IMO...
 
S

Shogmaster

Member
Laurent said:
What if that new iMac falls down of your desktop by accident? It's 18.5 pounds is suspended on such a fragile (and probably light) neck IMO...
Click to expand...

You know, I was checking out the new Cinema displays at Frys, and that stand system isn't exactly rock stable. The iMac is the same design except even more top heavy so.......

I'd have designed an acrylic cover over the LCD, but that's just me.
 
F

Freestyler

Member
To those who are worried about the iMacs falling over, don't you think Apple would've realised that this could be a big problem and worked on it?

I'm sure they're not gonna put a system out there that falls over when you push a CD in too hard..
 
F

Freestyler

Member
Something like three Powerbooks have 'burst into flames', out of the millions that have been sold. There's a big recall going on currently.

So there's your answer to 'what if everyone who buys the new iMac is retarded and knocks it over?'; Apple will do a recall at no cost to consumers, if everyone really is that stupid.
 
F

Freestyler

Member
Oh and as far as I'm aware, the battery issue that can cause extreme heat/fire, is to do with one of the chips Apple source from some outside company - it has nothing to do with Apple's design of the Powerbook itself.
 
A

aaaaa0

Member
Actually, the recent iBook recall is at least the second time Apple has released laptops that burst into flames due to faulty batteries.

Though I am just kidding. Hence the ;-)

I'm pretty sure other manufacturers have had similar problems.
 
L

Laurent

Member
Freestyler said:
To those who are worried about the iMacs falling over, don't you think Apple would've realised that this could be a big problem and worked on it?

I'm sure they're not gonna put a system out there that falls over when you push a CD in too hard..
Click to expand...
I am sure that Apple would never do that, but HOW did they stabilzed a 18.5 pounds system on such a thin stand? I can't wait to see it in person so I can check that possible flaw...
 
P

Prospero

Member
Laurent said:
I am sure that Apple would never do that, but HOW did they stabilzed a 18.5 pounds system on such a thin stand?
Click to expand...

I haven't seen it in person (obviously), but my guess is that the center of gravity for the device isn't where it might initially appear to be. If the stand has even a little density and a properly-shaped base, it'd put the C of G behind the iMac's screen, not inside it. My guess is the C of G is somewhere inside the triangle formed by the stand and the screen (looking at a side view).
 
S

shantyman

WHO DEY!?
What a lot of people should take into account is not that the idea is innovative (it isn't), but the execution poops all over most everything else, if not everything else out there. Has anyone SEEN one of the gateway machines? Terrible, absolutely terrible.

Going back to the innovation, we could always mention the 20th anniversary Mac.

frontsmall.gif
 
S

Slurpy

*drowns in jizz*
Apple's ideas usually aren't the very first, but they tend to be executed the best. Thus it pretty irrelevant how innovative they are.
 
S

Shogmaster

Member
Slurpy said:
Apple's ideas usually aren't the very first, but they tend to be executed the best. Thus it pretty irrelevant how innovative they are.
Click to expand...

It's the "best" if you only look at the esthetic execution over all else, and even that's debatable (Mac forums are filled with "ugly" comments for the new iMac).

The new iMac sacrifices everything practical for this narrow, misguided design target of fitting everything within the Pizza box, regardless of if that's in reality a good idea or not! You are actually giving up on features that last gen's design gave you (such as more stable stance, the ability to swivel the display laterally, and a faster optical drive potential by not using a laptop slot loader). Only Mac fans will cheer on that kind of regressive design development in the vain quest for a "hip" and "cool".
 
X

xsarien

daedsiluap
Shogmaster said:
The new iMac sacrifices everything practical
Click to expand...

Like what? It has a burner, a hard drive, a 17"-20" LCD, and a system board expandable to 2GB of memory, all shoved into a box that's slightly less than 2" thick. The iMac isn't the computer you buy for performance, it's the computer you buy your parents or grandparents or kids just so they can use Word, send e-mail, use their digital cameras, and their iPods.
 
T

thom

Member
I'm ordering a 17" iMac G5 with a Superdrive tomorrow. I have to thank Shogmaster for

helping me make this decision.
 
S

Shogmaster

Member
xsarien said:
Like what? It has a burner, a hard drive, a 17"-20" LCD, and a system board expandable to 2GB of memory, all shoved into a box that's slightly less than 2" thick.
Click to expand...

You know, except of the size of the LCD, you can get all that in a fucking laptop.............. which can run off of a battery......

The iMac isn't the computer you buy for performance, it's the computer you buy your parents or grandparents or kids just so they can use Word, send e-mail, use their digital cameras, and their iPods.
Click to expand...

Shit, at that point, why bother with a new computer at all?

thom said:
I'm ordering a 17" iMac G5 with a Superdrive tomorrow. I have to thank Shogmaster for

helping me make this decision.
Click to expand...

I do enjoy watching folks waste their money. ;)
 
X

xsarien

daedsiluap
Shogmaster said:
You know, except of the size of the LCD, you can get all that in a fucking laptop.............. which can run off of a battery......
Click to expand...

Screen size, oddly enough, matters to a lot of people. As does ease of use, which is something Apple has had perfected for years now.

Shit, at that point, why bother with a new computer at all?
Click to expand...

Most apps require 2000 or XP at this point, or in the case of the Mac, OS X.


I do enjoy watching folks waste their money. ;)
Click to expand...

"Waste" is a matter of perception. If I had the money to buy new Adobe licenses, I'd ditch the PC as my work platform in a heartbeat.
 
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