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Where is Fahrenheit 9/11 wrong?

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Firest0rm

Member
I can't believe how many people are completely uninformed as to what life there was like. FIRST, I am Iraqi. My family has suffered underneath his regime. But lets not talk about my personal losses. I'll talk about how everyone was in fear, how no one had electricity, how atleast 500,000 people were killed under his power.

In Iraq the way it worked was they could pull out any kind of bullshit and you would get executed. There have been cases where a parent talks with his family in his house against Saddam, and his child son would take those ideas and talk about them at school. Then that child's father is taken and shot by Saddam's "thugs". Anyone could say anything they want about you without the need of proof and your life is finished. And the bigger problem is that there's agents everywhere, your best friend could be one without you knowing. Then also comes the fact that since the majority of people are living in terrible conditions that they are willing to do anything in order to obtain money. Even if that includes ratting out people, who aren't even plotting anything against the regime, for some prize money. Saddam successfully mastered fear and implemented it into every person's life. And not only the citizen, even his henchmen have got feared implanted in the back of their heads. There's alot more a person can say about this, but I'll move on to the next point.

The electricty before the invasion was run only a few hours a day through out all of Iraq. Its because they lack the power that would enable them to keep it running? No. On Saddam's birthday, electricty is kept running all day for the 3 consecutive days. Most people are forced to try and purchase their own generators or share their generators with each other. Problem is people lack the money to get these kind of generators.

Now this is what ticks me off. People who say that everything was better under Saddam's regime, yet their completely unaware of how many people have been killed under him. Atleast 500,000 people have been killed (This number is my estimate and its VERY conservative). This is dictator doesn't kill just one group in his country (Like Hitler's hate for Jewish people), no one is free of his tyranny. Whether your Kurdish, Shia or Sunni, one way or the other he would have made sure that he hurt you enough to fear him and not try to turn against him. But even though he hurt everyone, he also helped one group, and thats the Sunni group. He built their little village's into towns and then into cities and poured all the country's resources towards those. What did he do for the other two? Well for the Kurds he gave them something, and it was chemical missiles. He destroyed so many people's homes, families, and taken away their lives. Then the Shia were given nothing, fortunately they didn't suffer the fate that alot of Kurds did, but they still died in just as many amounts. When the Shia tried to overthrow Saddam during the Gulf War with support for the US Army and then was left alone when the army withdrew, all the Shia paid a big price for their courage. Almost every family had someone taken away and executed.

But sadly all of this is forgotten all of sudden. People are thinking that Iraqi's are in the worst situation, do you know that what you hear in the news is unimaginably inflated? Instead of just hearing through the news, my family keeps up with the truth through actual relatives and friends in Iraq. And the situation is better, the attacks that occur per week are not occuring all over the place. Its in a few places and surprisingly its the only thing the media covers. They don't talk about any improvements, they just life focusing on how many people have died, which is unfortunate. It seems that everyone is working against the development of a better Iraq.
 

FightyF

Banned
I agree with all those points, except for no. 7. Its hard to believe how many people say that, and everytime I hear it, i get a rush in body. Do you know how incorrect that statement is? Do you have any idea as to what life was before the invasion? ANY AT ALL. Please tell me what you know about an iraqi's life before the removal of Saddam.

I've been involved with Amnesty International, I know how it was like before and I know how it's like now through talking to Iraqis. It's unfortunate that you personally were affected by Saddam's desire to control the politics of the country, but from what I gather, most Iraqis aren't in the same position you were. Also, I know that there are black outs, but most cities did have power. When you say "through out all of Iraq", are you referring to rural areas?

I've also talked to many Iraqis about the situation, and the consensus is that the only people who really had a problem were the ones who (rightfully) rose up against Saddam. During the past 10 years, life for most was pretty hard because of the sanctions, but there was control and security.

It comes down to the question, do most Iraqis favour freedom of speech, or do they favour security? If they favour freedom of speech, then you'd be correct in your assertion that Iraqis are better off now. If Iraqis favour security over everything else, then the situation now is worse off than before. From what I've gathered, Iraqis would rather live with infastructure and security. Iraqis I've talked to don't represent the entire nation, and so my assumptions and conclusions can be way off base. I thank you for sharing your views, it gives me new insight and more topics to discuss with the Iraqis I know. By the way, what is your background (ie. Iraqi native/immigrant, religion, etc.) if you don't mind me asking?
 

Slurpy

*drowns in jizz*
Firestorm, that post sounds very suspicious, and some of it is just wrong. Case in point, the power situation. Thats bullshit. All reports say electricity still isn't close to what it used to be. I also personally know someone in Iraq who has told me power was NEVER a problem before the invasion. Just makes me doubt the rest of it.
 

Kuroyume

Banned
Firestorm, if the people in Iraq had a problem with Saddam they should have had a revolution and fought Saddam. They have no problem putting their lives on the line to kill our soldiers but rarely dared to fight Saddam.

I watched F911 today and let's just say I was really creeped out. Howard Stern isn't wrong when he says it's a horror film...
 

FightyF

Banned
Firestorm, if the people in Iraq had a problem with Saddam they should have had a revolution and fought Saddam. They have no problem putting their lives on the line to kill our soldiers but rarely dared to fight Saddam.

Actually thousands upon thousands have died when fighting him. Fighting him to topple him.

The mass-graves in Iraq are proof of this. Just after the end of the Gulf War entire Shi'ite militias went to battle him, thinking they'd get support for the US. They were slaughtered like sheep.
 

Kuroyume

Banned
I am aware of the mass graves but I don't know if it's right to say there are thousands of corpses or to say those were corpses of people that opposed his rule. Saddam killed and tortured people for the most ridiculous reasons. Anyway my point is that people could have killed him in many ways. Our presidents have been assassinated or injured before even while protected.
 

FightyF

Banned
to say those were corpses of people that opposed his rule.

It's a well known fact that they are. Many of these people were buried with ammo clips and guns on their backs.

Yes, people could have performed assasinations. Saddam apparently had that figured out too, with many body doubles, plus plenty of security.

Also consider that, when you look into the history of that region (Iraq in particular), dictatorships have been the norm for hundreds of years. That means hundreds of years of lessons learned and experience, so that each succeeding dictator knows how to stay on top. It's no secret that Saddam would hunt down any person (even if they are common folk), once they start talking bad about him. It got to the point where it's so pre-emptive...you just say something wrong and you are in trouble.

But I agree with your point that it should be up to the people to form the revolution and revolt. The reason why the US is a great democracy is because it was fought for with blood, sweat and tears. It wasn't handed to Americans on a platter. Thus, people value it more, treasure it more, and will protect it more. Will Iraq have to go through a civil war to achieve stability? I hope not, but it's a possibility.
 

Firest0rm

Member
I don't have much time to answer all the questions right now, but I'll answer the fast ones. About me, I'm a Shia Iraqi my family is all from Baghdad. I wasn't born in Iraq. I was born in Jordan, after my family fleed Iraq.

As for Kuroyume's post regarding why Iraqi's didn't stand up against him. They did, the Kurds and the Shia did. But not the Sunni because they really weren't suffering as much, thus they had no reason to try and topple him. The Shia stood up to him during the Gulf War. Where they had the support of the US army. But once the army was pulled out, thousands of them were are killed. Whenever I see video's of them my heart shatters because these were men that fought for a great cause, only to have hope abandon them. They were all slaughered for trying to create an uprising, and this played into Saddams game. He used it as a way to ensure that no one does it again. Because if you do then your only rushing yourself to death. But you could say why wouldn't they if their life was so bad? The only thing they can do is fight? But the thing that prevents them from doing that is the fact that if for example I were to start an uprising, then its MY decision to do so. But for doing that my whole family would pay the price for my decision. So I was killed for my country, trying to free it. But my family pays for it with their lives too, one way or the other. Keep in mind Saddam's reach doesn't end at Iraq. It extends to neighbouring countries aswell.
 
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