U n i o n 0015
Member
It's in the indie space. AAA has been focusing on 30 FPS ultra graphics for far too long to the detriment of gameplay. If you want fun, you have to explore outside the space of the large studios.
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Where is Next Gen Gameplay?
- Thread starter HL3.exe
- Start date
Shwing
Member
Nintendo? Next Gen Gameplay? I thought their premise was to constantly rehash their back catalogue, and force the user into rebuying the same games time & time again? Or have I got that wrong?
The Infectious Paradox
Gold Member
Bc next gen is amazing
Shwing
Member
Lol!
Schmendrick
Member
way to go and just spout nonsense judging from 10 secs of footage with no clue about the inner workings of what`s going on.....
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SmokedMeat
Gamer™
No, Nintendo isn’t doing anything new. But they’re one of the only publishers that focus on solid gameplay mechanics.
New experiences can only be found in VR imo.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Maybe you’ve seen a different trailer. It’s a mindless shooter. Looks fun but nothing next gen about it
fart town usa
Member
Alone in the Dark: Inferno is a PS3 game that scored low and was discarded by the masses. It also stands leagues above the vast majority of modern AAA games when it comes to gameplay mechanics.
Modern AAA gaming is shallow and boring. These games are created for a homogenized worldwide audience who want a Netflix-style binge watch experience.
Indies are where it's at these days if you want to see unique gameplay mechanics. VR too.
Modern AAA gaming is shallow and boring. These games are created for a homogenized worldwide audience who want a Netflix-style binge watch experience.
Indies are where it's at these days if you want to see unique gameplay mechanics. VR too.
Fbh
Gold Member
The reson they can rehash the same franchises is because they actually innovate in terms of gameplay.
It's actually pathetic for the rest of the industry that you have to go to the Switch to find an open world game that feels interactive and has cool physics.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
The last time a game legitimately made me feel like you couldn't have done this on previous generation was Dead Rising all the way back on the X360.
NinjaBoiX
Member
Says who?
Have there been multiple examples of startling gameplay innovations eschewed in favour of shiny graphics?
Schmendrick
Member
jesus rofif....
I just told you that it`s stupid to judge a trailer without knowing what`s behind it and then you double down on "but this trailer....."
Sometimes you baffle me....
The point of this game and why I brought it up here is that contrary to UEBS and similar every single one of the 4000+ possible individual soldiers has his own behaviour, physics, animation cycles etc. That was absolutely impossible on something like last gen hardware.
It may or may not boil down to mindless shooting in the end, but the crowd tech is amazing nonetheless.
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Raven77
Member
You're making an assumption than NextGen gameplay means more complex. That isn't true at all.
Imagine an FPS where it has real time fluid and glass physics. One of the levels as you rescuing hostages from an aquarium. The emergent next-gen gameplay that just those two physics systems would allow for would be amazing and not increase complexity.
Just about every game released has us doing the exact same things we were doing since the xbox/360 era.
Boring.
Unrivaledx88
Member
Isnt PC master race , shouldn’t PC be leading in this space, with high end specs should come Next Gen gameplay….
PC doesn’t even challenge PlayStation to make exclusive games with high end amazing graphics .
PlayStation can’t carry the industry on its Back… games, graphics… bc I feel like it is kinda been doing that for a while…
Xbox can’t even compete anymore
Nintendo is just doing them.
We don’t put enough pressure on PC to compete.
PC doesn’t even challenge PlayStation to make exclusive games with high end amazing graphics .
PlayStation can’t carry the industry on its Back… games, graphics… bc I feel like it is kinda been doing that for a while…
Xbox can’t even compete anymore
Nintendo is just doing them.
We don’t put enough pressure on PC to compete.
ComputerBlue
Member
It feels like real innovation and advancement in gameplay mostly died down in the PS360 generation. I remember at the start of last gen and throughout people were obsessed with 1080p and graphics, now it’s 60 FPS, graphics, 4K.
saintjules
Gold Member
Then perhaps there's no need for new Consoles. We should stick to the earlier generations.
I definitely want more innovative ideas in conjunction with fidelity and stable framerates, however I think investors and/or whoever is financing these projects don't want to take a big risk on innovative ideas.
Unless you're someone like Kojima of course. And I remember people giving him shit for doing a 'walking simulator'. Death Stranding is miles ahead in terms of innovation. But I'm sure he has unlimited resources to make that vision a reality.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
he had 85 people and 3 years.
Schmendrick
Member
What kind of utter nonsense is this?....there is no Platform Holder on PC and it is not a walled garden you have to lure people into with exclusives.....
"Put pressure on PC" just wtf.....
Guilty_AI
Gold Member
Here's the design problem tho:
99% of players would just go for the straighforward solution of shooting the bad guys. The added complexity (Yes, what you described is complexity, ESPECIALLY the fluid physics which our CPUs still aren't at a stage to handle well) would just make the game heavier on the hardware for basically no reason. Can such a thing really be called good design?
And if we're talking about FPSs that incorporate emergent problem-solving skills, we've had that for decades and are called Immersive-sims. And, surprise, they aren't very popular.
Boring for you, but the average joe enjoys their headshots and simple platforming, just like how humans have enjoyed chess for millenia.
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Krappadizzle
Member
While I think it looks cool myself, it kinda just looks like an evolution of Dead Rising....
Which we got nearly....20 years ago.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
And it’s stupid for you to defend a trailer which might just as well be fakejesus rofif....
I just told you that it`s stupid to judge a trailer without knowing what`s behind it and then you double down on "but this trailer....."
Sometimes you baffle me....
The point of this game and why I brought it up here is that contrary to UEBS and similar every single one of the 4000+ possible individual soldiers has his own behaviour, physics, animation cycles etc. That was absolutely impossible on something like last gen hardware.
It may or may not boil down to mindless shooting in the end, but the crowd tech is amazing nonetheless.
Schmendrick
Member
So should I for the 3rd time now tell you that the interesting thing is the crowd tech behind it or how many times exactly do I have to spell that out for you until it falls on a lonely neuron in your head? Just give me an estimate....
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Magic Carpet
Gold Member
VR is about as next gen as I've seen for the past 10 years. If you want new ways to plays games, grab a VR helmet.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
The higher the fidelity a game has the more difficult it will be to build the gameplay and animation that you would consider next-gen.
The closer we get to diminishing returns in terms of fidelity, the closer we'll get towards a shift back to gameplay.
I keep mentioning it but AI is going to play a huge part in enhancing how games work. The one example I like to consider is you walk into a village and rather than have a pre-scripted message from an NPC you could have a live discussion with AI-generated voice that can change based on circumstance.
Maybe you write a general script for a general character, but how that character exists and responds can be totally unique to someone's gameplay experience.
Maybe the boy in the village would normally grow up to be a soldier but after his mom his killed in attack he becomes a pirate, but in another scenario you're personally responsible for killing his mother, and he becomes a pirate who wants vengeance against you. Maybe that vengeance lands him in prison, and you have the option of helping him escape, and if you do, he forgives you.
That essentially any and every NPC you meet could have their own life story could significantly enhance games.
The closer we get to diminishing returns in terms of fidelity, the closer we'll get towards a shift back to gameplay.
I keep mentioning it but AI is going to play a huge part in enhancing how games work. The one example I like to consider is you walk into a village and rather than have a pre-scripted message from an NPC you could have a live discussion with AI-generated voice that can change based on circumstance.
Maybe you write a general script for a general character, but how that character exists and responds can be totally unique to someone's gameplay experience.
Maybe the boy in the village would normally grow up to be a soldier but after his mom his killed in attack he becomes a pirate, but in another scenario you're personally responsible for killing his mother, and he becomes a pirate who wants vengeance against you. Maybe that vengeance lands him in prison, and you have the option of helping him escape, and if you do, he forgives you.
That essentially any and every NPC you meet could have their own life story could significantly enhance games.
Generic
Member
Crossprogression is a thing.You don't like GaaS?!
And the latest games have greatly expanded menu systems with sprinkled microtransactions for you to play with!
Don't you enjoy painstakingly thorough content unlocking procedures to progress each time you repurchase with brand new save files that you can start fresh with for each platform you move to?
Don't you enjoy continuing your adventures exploring progressive political insights into you games via social media?
Unrivaledx88
Member
What kind of utter nonsense is this?....there is no Platform Holder on PC and it is not a walled garden you have to lure people into with exclusives.....
"Put pressure on PC" just wtf.....
No walled garden PSX , PS2, xbox , GameCube so on …. What is your point, don’t get butthurt.
Lucifers Beard
Member
I mean, you'll need a better CPU and GPU to create better A.I and more innovative gameplay systems. Can't exactly do that on an NES. Framerates are important but consoles will forever chase 60fps and eventually be back to 30fps. It's the nature of hardware.
AtomicStarving
Member
THIS IS AN ILLUSION FOR MARKETING STFU > LOL
Cyberpunkd
Gold Member
This. No AI till now matched F.E.A.R. and that game came out in 2005.
PendekarRajawali
Member
Kinect 3.0
Raven77
Member
I do agree with that to some extent. But Half-Life 2 did a lot of new things with physics and turn the FPS genre on its head.
People were also completely fine with black and white movies until colored stuff started to come out. We're going to have moments like that with gaming over the next 10 years.
intbal
Member
Gonna offer an unconventional opinion here, but I think High On Life took steps in the direction of "next gen gameplay". At least for the FPS genre.
The combat is limited. But the traversal mechanics are diverse and inventive. And you have to learn to use them all together to progress in the game.
Anyone who has finished it will know what I'm talking about.
They obviously weren't trying to redefine the FPS since it's basically just a comedy shooter. But with more focus on a greater range of combat tools and enemy types, I think it would have carved out a unique new place in FPS gaming.
The combat is limited. But the traversal mechanics are diverse and inventive. And you have to learn to use them all together to progress in the game.
Anyone who has finished it will know what I'm talking about.
They obviously weren't trying to redefine the FPS since it's basically just a comedy shooter. But with more focus on a greater range of combat tools and enemy types, I think it would have carved out a unique new place in FPS gaming.
I'm positive that people that say this have no idea what they want or mean by it. Even the OP says:
Different how? In all of them you complete linear missions, which have strictly defined win states, and you solve most of them by killing everything on the screen. What's so different about each of them? That HL2 has you move some barrels from time to time with the gravity gun? But then again you still spend 95% of the game walking and shooting.
Physical interactivity is in the same basket as "graphics advancements". It's there to show off the game, but the game still plays the same. Yeah you can shoot down a tree, grab a box and throw it, but at the end of the day: You get a mission marker, you go there, kill/loot/whatever, go to the next mission, and after X missions you're done. So while I agree there's no "next gen gameplay" now, the examples you gave also don't feel like "next gen gameplay" advancements.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
VR is the correct answer. Unless Sony and Nintendo decide to completely change their console controller designs to change of the player interacts with the game.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
hyperbertha
Member
With the most generic rockstar tps gameplay imaginable.
MikeM
Gold Member
I feel like we are in the refinement stage. Those massive leaps are gone because the tech gen over gen had massive improvements. Back then, number of polygons and triangles matter and would have massive leaps gen on gen, however this is basically irrelevant today.
60fps needs to be the norm. Directstorage needs to be used all the time. RT needs to be standardized. AI upscaling is becoming standard with DLSS/Xess currently and FSR potentially using their GPU AI cores.
All this stuff won’t help bad games though. Helldivers is a rare Gaas done right in a world of terrible priorities from AAA studios. Hell, WB just signalled they want to put out less SP games and focus more on Gaas…
60fps needs to be the norm. Directstorage needs to be used all the time. RT needs to be standardized. AI upscaling is becoming standard with DLSS/Xess currently and FSR potentially using their GPU AI cores.
All this stuff won’t help bad games though. Helldivers is a rare Gaas done right in a world of terrible priorities from AAA studios. Hell, WB just signalled they want to put out less SP games and focus more on Gaas…
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I don't think we are talking about gaming structure when we talk about next gen gameplay, but ways to play the game that are enabled by more powerful hardware. The ability to use the environment, physics and destruction to approach situations multiple different ways was definitely something that was a significant gameplay advancement. The fact that it has been walked back as hardware has improved is really disheartening.
Guessing you weren't alive in that era, but those leaps where incredible. Going from arena shooter level design, hunting key cards to finish a level -> to a (at the time) seamless feeling rollercoaster of set piece shooterwith NPC interactions, and combat Ai that could take cover and give call backs to what you were doing felt like an amazing leap forward. After that, nobody wanted to go back to the arena shooter, Half-Life 1 raised the bar. The HL2 leap was bit more measured, mainly leaping on the physics side (I was actually disappointed with HL2 at the time, how strict and linear it felt, believe it or not, hahah). But the physics where a definite leap up. Situation could play out in fun and unpredictable ways that wasn't possible before.
When we refer to "graphics," it often pertains to visual splendor, which, while nice to have, can be static or not directly relevant to gameplay. In contrast, physics provide a means to meaningfully enhance the gaming experience, offering opportunities and interactions that were previously impossible. Think of how much more fun it was to crash a car in GTA IV compared to its earlier versions, thanks to its heavier and more realistic physics. Sidenote: It's why I like the early era of dynamic lighting as developers experimented with combining dynamic lights and physics to create more dynamic environments that players could manipulate, as seen in games like Splinter Cell, Thief 3, and Escape from Butcher Bay.
R6Rider
Gold Member
Comandr
Member
It is a hardware issue. TOTK barely manages to hold its 30fps in more complicated scenarios and doesn’t have anywhere near the complexity of particle effects, density of npcs, weather and cloth simulation, liquid physics simulation, etc. TOTK is a great game. But it’s not even close to what DD2 is doing from a calculations standpoint let’s not be disingenuous.
It’s not a hardware issue. It’s a AAA developers don’t bother issue.
The latest preview from yesterday mentions that dd2 has over 1000 npcs living their lives and roaming around the world, interacting with the player and each other. Those calculations aren’t free. Their pathing, behaviors, etc, that’s all cpu bound. Let’s not pretend TOTK is doing anything even close to that.
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