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[Beth Cyra]

War Machine is glorified clone of Iron Man but I love to use him in MvC2. I want more variable characters that have potential to be different. Also I want most of capcom characters from MvC2 to return (expect SFers) Just mostly Jin, Strider, Hayate, SonSon, Commendo Captain to return along with Megaman, Phoenix Wright and Arthur.

Besides being in a suit of Armour, War Machine and Iron Man can and usually are completely different in both approach and there attacks. They where only clones because Capcom didn't make them any different in MvC.

And I won't fight Phoenix as I want him in game if for no other reason then the laughs but I can't agree on Mega Man, we have had him in a fighter already just like Vulnutt, let X finally be in a fighter. Not to mention X has far more move set potential which is why you said you didn't want War given all her armour upgrades plus the standard 8 boss weapons per game.

 

[TreIII]

Number of buttons won't be a problem, at least in TvC's case, since only a few characters in Cap side have that being from other fighting games. I don't think it's a good argument to use when 75% of the cast are new.

And how is it not? A game system needs to be constructed, in order to make it conducive for EVERY character.

If Marvel vs. Capcom 2 is guilty of this very same thing for other reasons (Marvel side has much more options than the majority of the Capcom side), than neither is TvC for what it does on another end altogether. It's basically the same type of "sin".

Heck, they remodeled Roll in TvC. Whose to say they might remodel other characters in Marvel?

As much as I wouldn't mind changes, it's not likely going to happen for the sake of wanting to be "familiar" for the healthy majority of the cast. Roll was "allowed", because a) most didn't care that much about her old MvC play-style, and b) she had a new playstyle circa Rockman Rockman/MMPU that could be adapted. I really don't think too many others are going to change, especially since they've been talking about trying to retain a number of things that MvC fans would "come to expect".

They even confirmed that Wolverine's "Berserker Barrage" attack is returning, which more than likely means we can count on him having Tornado Claw and such, too. If that much is true, then that just goes back to what I fear for the sake of what happened to Ryu and etc. in TvC.

Edited: I am curious how did people came to conclusion that it is confirmed to be fake. I know it is fake but did creator of list admit it?

Yeah. On SRK, the guy was found out to be a troll, and got banned as such.

Plus, it's pretty obvious by now that Super Skrull is in the game, or at least, Niitsuma already confirmed that the FANTASTIC FOUR ARE OUT. So any list that has Mr. Fantastic on there would have to be fake by default.

 

[Dali]

A lot of people seem to forget though - it's the principles that are kept. Not the buttons nor the controls, but the principle of Capcom fighting games.

Hell, Capcom made fighting games with less than 6 buttons outside of TvC (Pocket Fighter, Jojo, Rival Schools, Plasma Sword, etc.). It shouldn't be much of an issue, especially to fighting game fans.

The principles are not kept. For Capcom's most popular and recognizable fighters they have separate punch and kick buttons. That's my beef - not the amount of buttons. Those are the principles I am referencing. Street Fighter mainline, Alpha and EX, Darkstalkers, CoTA, Marvel Super Heroes, Pocket Fighter, Project Justice, The Versus series (up until TvC fucked it up) all have separate punch and kick buttons.

I'm not saying having having weak, medium and strong attacks (combined as punches and kicks) can't work. I'm saying there's a reason I've always preferred Capcom fighters to SNK and other fighters and one of those reasons is the control scheme. I don't see a need for the concession other than for the sake of the developer lauding some imagined innovation (which is bs) or saying you've improved accessibility. As far as accessibility goes, SFIV has shown it isn't really a necessity to garner sales.

 

[Kai Dracon]

The truth is a huge swath of people are going to decide to despise MvC3 no matter what, just as a huge swath decided to despise SFIV because SFIV is not Street Fighter III: 4th Inning.

Just like the people saying that TvC sucks because it's /different/ and to someone who has played Capcom games, that makes it "unintuitive".

I've played Capcom games since /Street Fighter I/. I've played every single Capcom arcade game, ever. I played SFIII for the last ten years, on and off.

I played TvC for an hour and had it down cold, it didn't feel "unintuitive", and I came away thinking "hey, this actually a pretty cool streamlining for the chaos of a versus game".

There are personal tastes. That's fine, wonderful. But it is also true that some people are bound and determined to make themselves unhappy because they're annoyed and pissed that all their experience, as they see, it, has been wasted because something is changed.

If it wasn't the control scheme of MvC3, it'd be something else. There'd be some mechanic, some frame convention, some input buffer element, that would cause half the people who say they are the biggest fans of the series to scream that it's different and so it is ruined forever. It is just that for the moment, we have the nice, convenient straw man of that Stupid Anime Fighting Game on the Wii, Where Capcom Clearly Wasn't Being Serious, And Now Their Carelessness Has Ruined Fighting Games Forever.

 

[Dali]

The truth is a huge swath of people are going to decide to despise MvC3 no matter what, just as a huge swath decided to despise SFIV because SFIV is not Street Fighter III: 4th Inning.

Just like the people saying that TvC sucks because it's /different/ and to someone who has played Capcom games, that makes it "unintuitive".

I've played Capcom games since /Street Fighter I/. I've played every single Capcom arcade game, ever. I played SFIII for the last ten years, on and off.

I played TvC for an hour and had it down cold, it didn't feel "unintuitive", and I came away thinking "hey, this actually a pretty cool streamlining for the chaos of a versus game".

There are personal tastes. That's fine, wonderful. But it is also true that some people are bound and determined to make themselves unhappy because they're annoyed and pissed that all their experience, as they see, it, has been wasted because something is changed.

If it wasn't the control scheme of MvC3, it'd be something else. There'd be some mechanic, some frame convention, some input buffer element, that would cause half the people who say they are the biggest fans of the series to scream that it's different and so it is ruined forever. It is just that for the moment, we have the nice, convenient straw man of that Stupid Anime Fighting Game on the Wii, Where Capcom Clearly Wasn't Being Serious, And Now Their Carelessness Has Ruined Fighting Games Forever.

Sucks for those people who are determined to despise a game. For those that are capable of articulating their disappointment in a design decision without hating a game (that they've never played) as a whole however... *rollseyes*

In regards to TvC that's your opinion and I think it's nice that you appreciated the... ummm... "streamlining" of the controls. I didn't like it. Then again what's my opinion next to someone whose played every... single... Capcom... arcade game... EVAR!! And here I am fresh out of cookies.

 

[Boss Doggie]

You see, that's fine and all, but TvC is the black sheep of the vs. games, so to say - being hated by people and all. That's why some people will defend it, because it got a certain degree of hate for being different.

And how is it not? A game system needs to be constructed, in order to make it conducive for EVERY character.

If Marvel vs. Capcom 2 is guilty of this very same thing for other reasons (Marvel side has much more options than the majority of the Capcom side), than neither is TvC for what it does on another end altogether. It's basically the same type of "sin".

The thing however is that it worked - look at Ryu - TvC Ryu is arguably the "best" incarnation and even then has generally most of ALL the moves compared to the older versions. MvC suffered because it was just a cut-paste, TvC didn't suffer from it because it was a reworked system.

Come on, you even said the same thing back in the old TvC thread. Why the sudden hate?

As much as I wouldn't mind changes, it's not likely going to happen for the sake of wanting to be "familiar" for the healthy majority of the cast. Roll was "allowed", because a) most didn't care that much about her old MvC play-style, and b) she had a new playstyle circa Rockman Rockman/MMPU that could be adapted. I really don't think too many others are going to change, especially since they've been talking about trying to retain a number of things that MvC fans would "come to expect".

They even confirmed that Wolverine's "Berserker Barrage" attack is returning, which more than likely means we can count on him having Tornado Claw and such, too. If that much is true, then that just goes back to what I fear for the sake of what happened to Ryu and etc. in TvC.

True. Still, I wouldn't hold my breath if they change some things. And again, Ryu's a beast in TvC, and it's just a matter of balancing things.

 

[Platy]

The principles are not kept. For Capcom's most popular and recognizable fighters they have separate punch and kick buttons. That's my beef - not the amount of buttons. Those are the principles I am referencing. Street Fighter mainline, Alpha and EX, Darkstalkers, CoTA, Marvel Super Heroes, Pocket Fighter, Project Justice, The Versus series (up until TvC fucked it up) all have separate punch and kick buttons.

Spoiler

ok .. i know you were saying entire games ... but ... the joke was SO there =x

 

[bob_arctor]

Has there any word at all if Dark Phoenix will be on the Marvel roster?

 

[Boss Doggie]

XD @ getting angry over punch and kick not being "separate"

I'd argue that not everyone punches and kicks, and even GG put it up the notch by separating weapon attacks, but hey, that's the same complaint as about button stuff.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

While the list isn't terrible I am glad it was confirmed fake.

I am still holding out hope for X and War Machine to make it into the game.

War Machine is pretty much guaranteed as an easy mod of the Iron Man model.

But this game needs Daredevil or it can get lost.

 

[Dali]

XD @ getting angry over punch and kick not being "separate"

I'd argue that not everyone punches and kicks, and even GG put it up the notch by separating weapon attacks, but hey, that's the same complaint as about button stuff.

I think the only people getting angry are those that don't agree with my point of view.

 

[comedy bomb]

WTF at Captain America doing cartwheels. Way to miss the point of the character Capcom. :lol :lol

 

[evil ways]

WTF at Captain America doing cartwheels. Way to miss the point of the character Capcom. :lol :lol

He's always done cartwheels since Marvel Super Heroes, it's like his escape move. I guess it was supposed to show that he was athletic.

 

[Xav]

The hate for the controls in Tatsunoko VS Capcom is amazing, have you guys actually played the game to begin with. And in all honesty did the controls really affect you?
In fact quit hating on Tatsunoko VS Capcom, it's a better fighter than Street Fighter IV, oh yeah I said it.

 

[TreIII]

The thing however is that it worked - look at Ryu - TvC Ryu is arguably the "best" incarnation and even then has generally most of ALL the moves compared to the older versions. MvC suffered because it was just a cut-paste, TvC didn't suffer from it because it was a reworked system.

Come on, you even said the same thing back in the old TvC thread. Why the sudden hate?

It's not hate, it's called "critique", dear boy.

The more one spends time with something he likes, the more he's prone to being able to step back and see its flaws, as well. And after playing through, and spending quite a bit of time with BOTH of the TvC revisions, I believe I have the qualifications to say that which I don't like about the package deal.

Yes, it's true that the version of Ryu that's in Tatsunoko vs. Capcom is arguably the best version of Ryu to ever appear. But that came about more because of the way he was constructed by design; it was NOT explicitly due to the fact that he was constructed within the confines of a 4 (3+1) button system.

And again, one of the main things he stumbles on, is because of what I've been talking about over the course of my last few posts. Put Ryu in a mix-up situation where he's on the receiving end, and he falls victim to one of the game's failings: because of the way his moves are mapped, you, as the player, may not have any real "say" on what Ryu may throw out if you wanted to try and counter-attack. No other game with Ryu in it has ever had this type of thing happen. It's a TvC-exclusive issue, and it's DEFINITELY one of the things that honestly pisses me off about the game. And I believe I'm allowed to say that, because there's PLENTY of things about various fighting games that I may have come to hate, regardless if I ended up liking the game overall.

So, once more, that's the kind of the thing that concerns me about MvC:FTW. Unless I stand to be corrected, I doubt Nitsuma and his team have done a lot to learn lessons from TvC as much as I may have hoped. The fact that the design choice for the new game seems to point to repeating, if not possibly confounding on the things that I have issue with, concerns me.

KOF2001 was an example of what happens when you try to map too many functions on a limited button array. I'd rather not see Capcom repeat SNK's mistakes, almost a decade later.

 

[Jet Grind Radio!]

WTF at Captain America doing cartwheels. Way to miss the point of the character Capcom. :lol :lol

The point of the character? That cartwheels aren't American?

 

[comedy bomb]

The point of the character? That cartwheels aren't American?

He's supposed to be the ultimate fighting machine and the highest peak of human physicality, yet the best they can come up with for evasion tactics is cartwheels.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think cartwheels are something that one learns for combat situations.

 

[Yeef]

He's supposed to be the ultimate fighting machine and the highest peak of human physicality, yet the best they can come up with for evasion tactics is cartwheels.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think cartwheels are something that one learns for combat situations.

He's had the cartwheel move for ages. It's his equivalent of Ken's roll. All they're really confirming there is that he'll play similarly to the way he has in the past.

 

[comedy bomb]

He's had the cartwheel move for ages. It's his equivalent of Ken's roll. All they're really confirming there is that he'll play similarly to the way he has in the past.

I realize I am LTTP as far as the cartwheel being an established move, but that still doesn't excuse the sheer ridiculousness of it.

 

[Jet Grind Radio!]

He's supposed to be the ultimate fighting machine and the highest peak of human physicality, yet the best they can come up with for evasion tactics is cartwheels.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think cartwheels are something that one learns for combat situations.

One also doesn't take a Super Soldier serum either. I always considered Cap's cartwheel to show off his agility.

 

[comedy bomb]

One also doesn't take a Super Soldier serum either. I always considered Cap's cartwheel to show off his agility.

There is nothing agile about cartwheels. An obese smoker can do a fucking cartwheel.

 

[fernoca]

I realize I am LTTP as far as the cartwheel being an established move, but that still doesn't excuse the sheer ridiculousness of it.

Well, is not like the game is supposed to make sense....


In any case, I don't mind the "simplified control setup"..some act as if you'll be doing hadoukens ad shoryukens with just 1 button....heck the "simplified setup" in Tatsunoko..felt just normal to me... was playing and doing combos and supers..just like in Marvel vs Capcom 2..heck, doing the same motions and similar chains too... for the most part...

 

[Jet Grind Radio!]

Alright, then what would you prefer his evasion tactic to be?

 

[jett]

Game looks super early based on the scans.

 

[viewtiful_dru]

It's not hate, it's called "critique", dear boy.

The more one spends time with something he likes, the more he's prone to being able to step back and see its flaws, as well. And after playing through, and spending quite a bit of time with BOTH of the TvC revisions, I believe I have the qualifications to say that which I don't like about the package deal.

Yes, it's true that the version of Ryu that's in Tatsunoko vs. Capcom is arguably the best version of Ryu to ever appear. But that came about more because of the way he was constructed by design; it was NOT explicitly due to the fact that he was constructed within the confines of a 4 (3+1) button system.

And again, one of the main things he stumbles on, is because of what I've been talking about over the course of my last few posts. Put Ryu in a mix-up situation where he's on the receiving end, and he falls victim to one of the game's failings: because of the way his moves are mapped, you, as the player, may not have any real "say" on what Ryu may throw out if you wanted to try and counter-attack. No other game with Ryu in it has ever had this type of thing happen. It's a TvC-exclusive issue, and it's DEFINITELY one of the things that honestly pisses me off about the game. And I believe I'm allowed to say that, because there's PLENTY of things about various fighting games that I may have come to hate, regardless if I ended up liking the game overall.

So, once more, that's the kind of the thing that concerns me about MvC:FTW. Unless I stand to be corrected, I doubt Nitsuma and his team have done a lot to learn lessons from TvC as much as I may have hoped. The fact that the design choice for the new game seems to point to repeating, if not possibly confounding on the things that I have issue with, concerns me.

KOF2001 was an example of what happens when you try to map too many functions on a limited button array. I'd rather not see Capcom repeat SNK's mistakes, almost a decade later.

I don't really get this complaint,
because in what game would you want to uppercut a crossup? (a good crossup, not a lazy one) Wouldn't you just block it?
Not to be a douche, but you wouldn't try to do that at all in TvC. His shoryuken doesn't have SF2 priority in that game. So I don't think that it's really an issue.
If it was a necessary tactic, sure.

 

[comedy bomb]

Alright, then what would you prefer his evasion tactic to be?

I dunno, something efficient. Something that sets up a counter attack.

The guy is supposed to be able to make Batman look like an untrained douche, he's not supposed to be a ballerina.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Cap can do cartwheels. Who cares.

 

[Jet Grind Radio!]

So you can't think of anything? Then the cartwheels are fine.

And Cap can go toe to toe with Batman.

 

[comedy bomb]

And Cap can go toe to toe with Batman.

They don't even compare.

Captain America has been in wars, ya know?

 

[TreIII]

I don't really get this complaint,
because in what game would you want to uppercut a crossup? (a good crossup, not a lazy one) Wouldn't you just block it?

In most other games, including even past Marvel-style games, you can actively try to punish the opposition, if you think you can read it correctly. Depending on the game, it's actually a good idea to try and provide an answer to a cross-up attempt, if the blockstun was going to give the opposition the frame advantage they needed any way, such that they could at least throw you.

Not to be a douche, but you wouldn't try to do that at all in TvC. His shoryuken doesn't have SF2 priority in that game. So I don't think that it's really an issue.
If it was a necessary tactic, sure.

TvC basically does more to take away the option away entirely though, because again, you don't even have the "control" over which way the game says you're facing when it registers your command.

As a guy who dislikes his options being taken away, it's something I don't find favor in. Just like I didn't find favor with how MvC2 took options away by completely taking away the manual ability to do mids.

 

[Unicorn]

what's a crossup and mixup?

 

[TreIII]

what's a crossup and mixup?

Cross-Up

- n. - The type of attack that can hit the opponent behind you when you jump over them. An example of this is Zangief's Down + Fierce in the air in just about every game he's been in. It can hit behind him when he jumps over the opponent. Attacks that have Cross-Up potential generally have long hitboxes that extend downwards underneath a character, instead of in front.

- v. - To land such a hit on an opponent.

- http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Glossary

Mixup - A basic way to think of it is relating to the entire notion of how you can add change-ups to your plan of attack. High/mid/low. A cross-up that sets up for going into high/mid/low. Or Option-selecting, as seen below...

Option Select

- n. - When a player inputs multiple possible options at the same time, and the computer automatically selects the appropiate one according to the situation. As an extremely basic example, in Super Turbo, you attempt to throw your rival with Medium Punch. If you are within throw range, a throw will come out, otherwise a Medium Punch will come out.
Advanced option selects are used to reduce the risk of getting punished if your initial option fails. An example of this would be Honda's Auto Mix-up in Super Turbo. Basically, you do something, and if that something fails, another useful move comes out in its place, reducing (or eliminating, in some cases) the risk of geting punished for it.

 

[Router]

GAME OF FOREVER!!!!!!

Spoiler

Deadpool's teleportation device will comically malfunction if you spam his teleport move. Also, he breaks the fourth wall by beating his opponents with his health bar.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Raging Spaniard]

Guys, Captain Anerica would never do something stupid like have a costume with little wings on the side of his head or pirate booties

 

[SephirothRK]

Glad to see Dante, Felicia, Deadpool and Captain America finally confirmed.

 

[Bizzyb]

The hate for the controls in Tatsunoko VS Capcom is amazing, have you guys actually played the game to begin with. And in all honesty did the controls really affect you?
In fact quit hating on Tatsunoko VS Capcom, it's a better fighter than Street Fighter IV, oh yeah I said it.

I don't get it either. That game plays extremely well. Its simple yet still retains the depth you'd expect from a Capcom Fighting game. I actually have MUCH more fun with TvC than with SFIV

 

[Hours Left]

I hope we get the direct feed screen shots and character models for the four newly announced characters soon. (Tomorrow? >_>)

Speaking of which, when are they going to release the "key art" for the original six characters? I want to know who the artist is going to be, dangit.

 

[ZeoVGM]

OH MY GOD IT LOOKS SO GOOD.

 

[Bebpo]

OH MY GOD IT LOOKS SO GOOD.

Really?

I'm with jett. I think it looks very early/rough. Graphically it looks a lot closer to a wii game like TvC than a PS3/X360 game like SSF4. Hopefully it's just so early that the graphical polish hasn't been added yet. Either that or maybe the style will be more impressive in motion.

 

[Salsa]

GAME OF FOREVER!!!!!!

Spoiler

he breaks the fourth wall by beating his opponents with his health bar.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Yes, that could very well be the best thing ever.

 

[shaowebb]

Beating down opponents with my own healthbar as Deadpool?



...
I'm announcing that I am Deadpool maining from day one.

 

[Choppasmith]

Really?

I'm with jett. I think it looks very early/rough. Graphically it looks a lot closer to a wii game like TvC than a PS3/X360 game like SSF4. Hopefully it's just so early that the graphical polish hasn't been added yet. Either that or maybe the style will be more impressive in motion.

I had the same thought, however those hitsparks and the slash effects you see in the Ryu vs Wolverine shots are looking quite nice IMHO.

 

[Askia47]

Really?

I'm with jett. I think it looks very early/rough. Graphically it looks a lot closer to a wii game like TvC than a PS3/X360 game like SSF4. Hopefully it's just so early that the graphical polish hasn't been added yet. Either that or maybe the style will be more impressive in motion.

SF4 got alot of hate back in 2007 for it not looking good, and it turned out fine. MVC3 is still a year away, so alot can change.

 

[AAK]

Hmm... since this game probably won't have an arcade release, are they gonna release a public beta instead of a location test that games like KOF and Tekken go through?

 

[neorej]

Deadpool breaking 4th wall --> certain buy.

 

[Elbrain]

The fucking will have Wesker! hahahahah you are small time is all I hear when he talks! :lol

 

[akachan ningen]

The fucking will have Wesker! hahahahah you are small time is all I hear when he talks! :lol

poor performance indeed.

 

[Elbrain]

poor performance indeed.

:lol

 

[euro stalker]

SF4 got alot of hate back in 2007 for it not looking good, and it turned out fine. MVC3 is still a year away, so alot can change.

idd there is still a long way to go.
hopefully we wil see some new things at E3
i am so hyped for this game :lol

 

[orioto]

Just saw the scans.

That looks pretty to me ! The Tatsunoko game is already really beautiful in term of art direction. This seems to be the same with better models. I just hopes it animates better.