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[ScOULaris]

So with Color Splash's release there has been a lot of talk lately about how it lines up with the other Mario Adventure/RPG games that preceded it. In the beginning, we had Squaresoft kicking things off by giving us the world's first-ever Mario RPG on the SNES, and then fans would see the series sort of split into two paths: Mario & Luigi on handhelds and Paper Mario on consoles. The latter series have both seen numerous sequels, and there is no general consensus on which entries in their respective series were the best. While both Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi have certain recurring thematic and mechanical elements that crop up in every game, they all also excel and in some cases come up short in specific areas each time around. One staple of nearly every Mario RPG game is a solid translation effort, and that extra bit of charm helps flesh out the personalities of characters old and new even further.

But I don't want this thread to devolve into an argument about which Mario Adventure/RPG is best. No, I'd rather focus on which one did the best job expanding on the universe of Mario. Since mainline Mario games tend me to very minimal and safe in their world-building and storytelling, many Nintendo fans look to spin-off games to flesh out the Mushroom Kingdom and its surrounding areas. These adventure games usually give players the opportunity to actually speak with characters that are usually nothing more than obstacles for Mario. It fleshes out the personalities of the Mario cast and crew while also giving birth to new characters that sometimes become staples of the Mario-verse moving forward.

Since I'd be remiss to start the discussion without giving my two cents, I'm gonna give my vote to Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga on the GBA.

This was a tough one since the original Paper Mario on N64 does a terrific job expanding upon the Mushroom Kingdom, but of all the vacation destinations that Mario has visited on his spin-off outings I think that the Beanbean Kingdom was the most interesting neighboring area. The first Mario & Luigi game had the perfect balance of new and interesting locales/characters mixed in with familiar Mushroom Kingdom places and faces. The beginning act in Mushroom Kingdom was a lovely depiction of the familiar setting, complete with shops and various denizens going about their daily lives. Beanbean Kingdom, on the other hand, is an equally interesting zone with its clever parallels to its neighboring Mushroom Kingdom while still having its own unique identity.

I've gotta say, though. If it weren't for the over-reliance on generic Toads and Shy Guys in Color Splash, Prism Island would be a definite contender. While the game drops the ball in terms of NPC variety, it really excels in terms of its setting. Prism Island is memorable, visually interesting, and diverse in its locales. Great stuff.

 

[purseowner]

Bowser's Inside Story was great on character development for the titular King Koopa.

 

[Neiteio]

I loved seeing all of the new bean-themed enemies and NPCs in Superstar Saga. Such a blast of fresh air. I was a bit taken aback when I tried the Paper Mario series with TTYD and it was back to regular enemies (although it made up for it with a strong cast of NPCs).

 

[NotLiquid]

It's either Superstar Saga or TTYD, though I'm willing to side on Superstar Saga for this one mainly since it seemed just a little more self-aware of it's own franchise mythos and it even develops Mario and Luigi as a duo which I find a pretty big thing in the game's favor, as very few games in the entire franchise actually go that far. The Mario & Luigi series strike me as a series more character-driven as opposed to Paper Mario series' more world-driven setup.

 

[DownGrader]

I have always like the laconic approach of the original Paper Mario, which prioritized expanding the existing settings and characters instead of creating tons of new ones. TTYD's story and the general setting, while being genuinely awesome, jump the shark sometimes.

Maybe that's why I was never annoyed with all the Toads in recent story-driven Mario games.

 

[TreIII]

Bowser's Inside Story was great on character development for the titular King Koopa.

It was great for character development, and it was even nicer that they gave Bowser his own "rival" at long last (outside of Mario) in the form of Midbus. Too bad they didn't think about having Junior and the Koopalings pal around with Bowser during this timeframe, when it would have made a whole lot of sense to have them be his "ultimate" summon compared to the Blockats!

Anyway, while the game did have a great array of memorable NPCs, it still did take place in the Mushroom Kingdom and its surrounding areas. So, I don't think it expanded on the world quite as well as its predecessors did.


TTYD is probably going to be my favorite pick in that respect. It even redeemed the Piantas, in my eyes!

 

[udivision]

At a certain point in PM64, Mario runs into a Goomba who idolizes him, and the Goomba's mom, dad, grandma, grandpa, and younger sister who all like him. It kind of turns your expectations of the relationship between Mario and "'his enemies" on its head and firmly establishes good and evil (in the Mario Universe) isn't just what type of being you are.

That idea was completely trashed later though. Rather than the world being a place where loads of different types of characters living together is the norm, it became that the occasional "bad guy who's not really a bad guy" was just a rare subversion.

 

[Mr Waluigi]

Paper Mario 64 for the Mushroom Kingdom, TTYD for the Mario world overall, M&L3 for Bowser's side of the story.

 

[-Mutsukki-]

I know this is more focused on RPGs or mainline games but I feel like Mario Lart actually expands a LOT on the Mario World. You may not talk to anyone but the cities and locations are always really nice.

But on an overall level I'd say TTYD expanded the Mushroom Kingdom the best. I never really enjoyed Superstar Saga's reliance on a foreign kingdom to show new locations (though in retrospect it's really unique and I'd love more of it). Rogue Town is a really good setting, it shows that the Mushroom Kingdom isn't all sunshine and rainbows

 

[SolVanderlyn]

I may be a bit biased, but I think Super Mario RPG's initial expansion of the world was the best, or was at the least my favorite, mainly because it felt like an extension of ye olde SNES Mario-verse. I was always under the impression that we visited a very small portion of The Mushroom Kingdom itself, and then went onto neighboring lands, which were divided into separate areas by the world map. It felt like a globetrotting adventure the way none of the subsequent games have, with Mario journeying to a variety of locales, each with their own unique feel and populace. The verdant lakes, rivers and forests of Rose Town and its surrounding areas, the countryside of Moleville and its hardworking inhabitants, the out of the way Seaside Town and Star Hill, the very end of the world with Monstro Town and Land's End, and even a city in the sky - it's nothing the subsequent games didn't also try, but in SMRPG, each area felt like a different part of the world itself rather than a different part of a single location.

The game also felt like it had a very real threat with Smithy and his gang, despite them being relatively cartoony; everywhere you go you see signs of their presence, with it becoming more and more apparent the further you get into the game. The additional story with Geno and the Star Road is still one of the best extensions of the Mario cosmos (I know how ridiculous that sounds - don't stop reading, I'll elaborate in a second) that's in these games. I also loved how it subverted the typical Mario story at the very beginning of the game, with Bowser being the first boss and Mario out to rescue Peach, only to have a greater and more threatening enemy appear. Whereas other Mario RPGs seem to focus on one area at a time, SMRPG felt much more all-encompassing. There were mole people, cloud people, a town of monsters, frog people, whatever the hell Booster was, etc., and the monster design was equally creative. The best part was that they co-existed with Toads and traditional Mario enemies, making it feel a true extension of what we already knew.

Mario and Luigi and The Thousand Year door are runner-ups because of how well realized their respective locations are. Rougeport in particular is an amazingly creative setting for how atypical it is for a Mario game, making it feel very fresh despite the game itself being somewhat of a retread of the first Paper Mario. I do much prefer the global journey we experienced in SMRPG, but there is something to be said for spending more time in one location, allowing the player to become more fully immersed in and attached to that particular place, so I can certainly see why people would choose these two. Beanbean Kingdom and Rogueport both had a lot of that Mario charm while still being new and unique locations. The first Paper Mario probably did the best job of exploring and expanding upon the familiar Mushroom Kingdom.

As for what I said earlier about the Mario cosmos - it's not as ridiculous as it sounds. Most of the RPGs touch upon a supernatural element, or something higher than the world that the characters inhabit. I feel like SMRPG's was the most effective from a tonal standpoint; you really do feel like the world is in danger and that the stakes are much higher than normal, so much so that the previous big bad joins up with you to help restore things to normal. TTYD probably has a more well realized internal mythos with the X-nauts, but again, the threat feels very localized in that game.

This is my opinion of the Mario RPGs in general, for what it is worth.

 

[maxcriden]

At a certain point in PM64, Mario runs into a Goomba who idolizes him, and the Goomba's mom, dad, grandma, grandpa, and younger sister who all like him. It kind of turns your expectations of the relationship between Mario and "'his enemies" on its head and firmly establishes good and evil (in the Mario Universe) isn't just what type of being you are.

That idea was completely trashed later though. Rather than the world being a place where loads of different types of characters living together is the norm, it became that the occasional "bad guy who's not really a bad guy" was just a rare subversion.

I agree with you. That aspect of Paper Mario 64 really got me into that game initially. It was such an interesting subversion of expectations as you said. FWIW, there are quite a few instances in Color Splash in what we've played of it so far where you encounter enemies just hanging out and living their lives and not necessarily being enemies of Mario or foes to fight, which has been great to see. Especially a pair of Snifits and their "refined" (read: snooty) sensibilities.

 

[Meffer]

I feel Paper Mario 1 and 2 did it really well. And Super Star Saga as well.

 

[Peltz]

Can I just say, the graphics of the Wii U title are just splendid. One of the finest graphical efforts I've seen all gen.

I'm actually not well versed enough in the series to comment further.

 

[JazzmanZ]

I'd say Paper Mario since it's the only game in the RPG series to have its characters appear in other Mario games (Star spirits in Mario Party 5 and Goomboss in Super Mario 64 DS)

 

[Theanine3D]

The original on the SNES.

It let us have both Peach and Bowser in the party and gave both considerable character development, something unprecedented for the franchise. Peach was no longer just a damsel in distress, and Bowser was no longer just a generic vaguely-motivated villain. It also showed us another kingdom (Nimbus Land) in the Mario universe.

Every other Mario RPG has simply expanded on or copied what SMRPG started. Without SMRPG, the rest wouldn't even exist.

 

[Kamek Koopa]

I'd say Paper Mario 64 and M&L Superstar Saga.

I love the way Paper Mario expands things we were seeing in Mario platformers, with a traditional yet rich world full of Toad, Goomba and Koopa villages, classic but reimagined landscapes (for instance, the desert is not just the desert of SMB3; it has an arabian town, some ancient ruins, a mistery with the pyramid...), its own mythology (the stars tale), an elaborated and fabled version of the standard plot, a view of Bowser's side of things... everything without adding out of place characters and locations (an error that in my opinion commited Super Mario RPG, The Thousand Year Door and M&L4; I'm not even going to talk about Super Paper Mario).

On the other hand, what I like about M&L Superstar Saga is how everything that game invents fits so well in the Mario universe. I can really believe Beanbean Kingdom is the land located next to Mushroom Kingdom, with its own villain, queen, landscapes and variations of the local races. Maybe because it is build as a Mushroom Kingdom parody, I don't know. I also think characters in that game (particularly villains; Cackletta and Fawful) fit the Mario universe so well. Can't say the same about Smithy, Sir Grodus or Antasma. And the main motif of Beanbean Kingdom (jokes and laughs) feels also natural and a part of the culture of the country. It is not as artificial and gimmicky as the pillow thing (M&L4) or the sticker madness (PM SS).

I love Bowser's Inside Story too, mainly because of the development of Bowser's personality, the relation with his minions, his motivations... that's why I need a Wario & Waluigi game that makes the same with the two gross plumbers.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

What all instances have these elements been folded into other Mario series? Someone mentioned above that that happened with Paper Mario 64, but has it happened elsewhere?

 

[udivision]

The original on the SNES.

It let us have both Peach and Bowser in the party and gave both considerable character development, something unprecedented for the franchise. Peach was no longer just a damsel in distress, and Bowser was no longer just a generic vaguely-motivated villain. It also showed us another kingdom (Nimbus Land) in the Mario universe.

Every other Mario RPG has simply expanded on or copied what SMRPG started. Without SMRPG, the rest wouldn't even exist.

That's a hugely important thing: giving Bowser a character. Because Mario doesn't talk and Peach is typically AWOL (and tbh they're both rather boring) Bowser is the best "main" Mario character. Every Mario RPG after takes advantage of that, including a lot of non-RPG spinoffs too. Bowser's personality works so well, and they make good use of it.

I guess this is the point where I mention Bowser doesn't talk in Sticker Star. Surprisingly people were upset about removing something they liked and replacing it with nothing. Go figure.

 

[DylanEno]

Chalk up another vote for TTYD. Superstar Saga was cool in that it took us to an entirely different kingdom that felt a lot different culturally from the mushroom kingdom, but even so, it wasn't all that interesting or fleshed out. I can't recall a single NPC aside from Fawful and the prince dude.

TTYD, on the other hand... from the first moments of stepping into the charmingly roguish and aptly named Rogueport, you immediately know you're in for something special. And right off the bat you're hit with a boss battle against a new kind of enemy; and after that, you get to see a mobster Pianta beat the crap out of some weird vulture people - and its not long before you come across a new species in a radically different design from what we've come to expect of a Mario game in the Boggly Woods; there's a whole arena floating in the clouds filled with all sorts of different fighters... Really, there's so much world and character building going on, it's awesome.

That's why, as much as I'm enjoying color splash, a game like that can never be as good as a game like TTYD. There's just so much more going on in the world of Rogueport.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Super Mario RPG the GOAT

 

[ScOULaris]

I know this is more focused on RPGs or mainline games but I feel like Mario Kart actually expands a LOT on the Mario World. You may not talk to anyone but the cities and locations are always really nice.

Oh I don't think anyone disagrees with you on that one. Mario Kart 8, in particular, did a spectacular job fleshing out various locations in Mushroom Kingdom. It also featured the best art style to ever grace a Mario game in any genre.

 

[Platy]

Good call on Mario Kart 8 !

But my vote is Superstars Saga because of the Block Factory

 

[DoomGaze]

My vote is TTYD or Mario RPG.

Whoever wrote the script for Bowser deserves a friggin' medal.

 

[PSqueak]

I like how they all benefit from each other, SMRPG stablished the ground work with things like the star road, the little wizard like people and other things, Paper Mario made the wizard people recurring characters and built upon the star road giving each star on it star spirits, Super start saga introduced the beans, later TTYD would have beans in it and Partners in time picked up the whole star spirit thing from Paper Mario.

Also, all 3 series feature Star Hill, introduced in SMRPG.

 

[leroidys]

Honestly for me it's the original Paper Mario. It felt like it was plausibly in the same universe as prior Mario games, and did a lot to expand the characters, especially basic series enemies, as well as a "believable" representation of what towns, cities, transit, etc might look like in a Mario universe.

All of the M&L games, TTYD, and SPM, as great as some of them are, totally jump the shark, and feel more like a parody parallel universe than anything.

Sticker Star and Color Splash are great, but don't do a lot to expand the universe.

I have yet to play Super Mario RPG.

 

[Green Mamba]

The first two Paper Mario games are the best at this as far as I'm concerned. Paper Mario 64 did a fantastic job of showcasing the traditional Mario world in a true world building light, full of diverse people and interesting worlds. Goombas and Koopas and whatever were more than just mooks in Bowser's army, they were peoples unto themselves. And TTYD really does genuinely fell like the unseen underbelly of Mario's world, just lurking outside of a traditional Mario experience--a world full of colorful characters, some familiar, some unique, that emphasizes how much more of the world you have yet to see.

And then they replaced it all with Toads.

*cough*

I like the Mario & Luigi series (at least the first and the third) but the characters and locals felt a little too zany and bizarre, more like an outsider's perspective of what the Mario universe is like and less PM64 and TTYD's style where everything truly feels like it belongs in the same world as the main series. If that makes any sense.

As for SMRPG, I would rank it somewhere with the first two Paper Marios, just a little rougher around the edges--which makes sense, as it was the first go around. And Super Paper Mario is something else entirely that I didn't care for at all.

 

[NathanS]

All of the M&L games, TTYD, and SPM, as great as some of them are, totally jump the shark, and feel more like a parody parallel universe than anything.

I'd go further, TTYD and SPM feel like the sort of thing I'd read on fanfiction.net when I was 13, with art from Deviant art. All written by a kid who you suspect the more you read doesn't actually like the source martial and is trying to "fix" it.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

I'd go further, TTYD and SPM feel like the sort of thing I'd read on fanfiction.net when I was 13, with art from Deviant art. All written by a kid who you suspect the more you read doesn't actually like the source martial and is trying to "fix" it.

I disagree with this, hard. One of the reasons TTYD was so appealing was that it simultaneously relied on a pre-established formula set by Paper Mario while still creating a new setting and new characters that were far outside the "norm" for Mario. The new material was still brimming with the token creativity the franchise is known for.

To me, a Deviantart or fan-fiction comparison usually means it feels like someone is skinning their own ideas with a pre-established universe or characters. The distinction between those two comparisons and a true extension of a universe is in whether or not A) The extension is officially recognized and B) Whether the extension carries the "spirit" of the original, despite adding new and unfamiliar things. I think TTYD and SPM carried the spirit of Mario very well.

Of course, everyone has their own opinion, and I do see why some would be upset with the more liberal interpretation some of the Mario RPGs took.

 

[MrBadger]

I'd go further, TTYD and SPM feel like the sort of thing I'd read on fanfiction.net when I was 13, with art from Deviant art. All written by a kid who you suspect the more you read doesn't actually like the source martial and is trying to "fix" it.

In what way? I'm playing through TTYD at the moment and I don't see what you mean. Is it because the plot centres around original villains, or gives a voice to characters like Peach and Bowser? When I think "edgy fan fic", I think of something like Shadow the Hedgehog. But Paper Mario TTYD feels light hearted and quirky, not edgy or tryhard.

 

[Screamapillar]

TTYD or Superstar Saga. Mario RPG SNES was good at developing brand new characters, as well. I'd agree with any of the above three. The first Paper Mario had some original characters as well, but the three games above trounce it in sheer volume.

 

[Glowsquid]

There are some things about TTYD's writing I don't like much as an adult (Grodus hyper-cliché dialogue and that stupid cutscene during the final boss), but I disagree it "jumps the shark" or "feels like a fanfiction". I thought it struck a great balance between wacky, serious, and faithfulness to the Mario style.

Super Paper Mario, though, now that's worthy of the "professional fanfiction" pejorative. What is this bullshit

"So now let's continue my story about the Pixl uprising...

The Ancients were overthrown and enslaved by the Pixl revolt led by the Pixl
Queen. In the midst of the ruin appeared the inheritors of the twelve original
Pixls. They defeated the waves of Pixl soldiers and freed the enslaved
Ancients.

They used Catch Cards to trap the mind-controlled Pixl soldiers, then healed
them. They saw their friends fall one after the other in battle, but they
persevered.

The last survivor managed to make it to the castle of the Pixl Queen. But the
Pixl Queen used her powers of illusion to hide. She then unleashed horrific
images upon the surviving freedom fighter.

One of the Pixls at his side was immune to this, for it could see truth. It
helped the survivor fight, and he and his Pixl finally defeated the Pixl Queen.
But in the process, the Pixl's game was ended...

Oh...Looks like the coins you paid will only get you this far through the
story!"

 

[Crayolan]

Probably PM64 as it took previously seen areas and species in the Mushroom Kingdom and showed us a lot more about them. Koopas and Goombas aren't all working for Bowser, some of them just live in villages peacefully. Boos just like to have fun in big groups. Shy Guys have a ton of different variations and are apparently hoarders.

Plus it took a lot of stuff from Yoshi's Island and made it feel like those guys were always part of the Mario universe. Of course Shy Guys come in so many variants. Of course Yoshis live on a island with ravens. Of course there are penguins living in the colder areas.

 

[Peltz]

There are some things about TTYD's writing I don't like much as an adult (Grodus hyper-cliché dialogue and that stupid cutscene during the final boss), but I disagree it "jumps the shark" or "feels like a fanfiction". I thought it struck a great balance between wacky, serious, and faithfulness to the Mario style.

Super Paper Mario, though, now that's worthy of the "professional fanfiction" pejorative. What is this bullshit

If that's real, then it really is a poor effort from the localization staff. That is totally devoid of any charm.

 

[MrBadger]

Super Paper Mario, though, now that's worthy of the "professional fanfiction" pejorative. What is this bullshit

I don't remember any of this from the main storyline. Is that some kind of bonus like Luigi's quest in TTYD?

For the most part the main storyline was decent, I thought. And fairly fitting for something like Mario. A love-struck villain and his quirky miniboss squad want to end the world and create a new one in its place. Nothing especially edgy about that premise.

 

[Glowsquid]

If that's real, then it really is a poor effort from the localization staff. That is totally devoid of any charm.

I don't remember any of this from the main storyline. Is that some kind of bonus like Luigi's quest in TTYD?

It's backstory you can buy from a NPC in Flopside (2nd hub).

Even if it's optional, I feel all that stuff about the "pixl queen" is dire and competely unfitting content for a Mario game.

 

[ar4757]

It's either Superstar Saga or TTYD, though I'm willing to side on Superstar Saga for this one mainly since it seemed just a little more self-aware of it's own franchise mythos and it even develops Mario and Luigi as a duo which I find a pretty big thing in the game's favor, as very few games in the entire franchise actually go that far. The Mario & Luigi series strike me as a series more character-driven as opposed to Paper Mario series' more world-driven setup.

This.

I may prefer TTYD slightly but the Beanbean Kingdom was a very thought out world

 

[Dremorak]

Bowser's Inside Story was great on character development for the titular King Koopa.

Came here for this, was not disappointed.

It does such a great job of developing his character, making him somewhat relatable, and yet hes still very much the bad guy.

That ending got me in a way I didn't expect

 

[Mory Dunz]

When the alternative appears to be Bowser as the main badguy again for the past FOUR mario rpgs, and no real plot whatsever, I'll take whatever complaints there are about TTYD, Bis, SPM, etc.
(Dream Team's plot doesn't seem as bad though...? idk)


At least they tried something dang...

 

[theclaw135]

Fun as they are, the otherworldly-invader trend was getting too bizarre. By Super Paper Mario they hardly looked like anything that belonged in the Mario universe.

 

[Worldshaker]

The original on the SNES.

It let us have both Peach and Bowser in the party and gave both considerable character development, something unprecedented for the franchise. Peach was no longer just a damsel in distress, and Bowser was no longer just a generic vaguely-motivated villain. It also showed us another kingdom (Nimbus Land) in the Mario universe.

Every other Mario RPG has simply expanded on or copied what SMRPG started. Without SMRPG, the rest wouldn't even exist.

I'm still crushed we never got a true sequel to Mario RPG. As much as I love Paper Mario and M&L, nothing tops the original.

 

[woopWOOP]

First Paper Mario was the first time I felt I could actually explore the Mushroom Kingdom, even if it was in a pop-up book style. I loved it for that.

Mario RPG on the other hand felt like a weird fever dream and TTYD took place in some crapstain harbor so whatever

 

[The Awesomest]

Honestly, Mario Kart 8 has been this for me recently. I think it's mainly because of the sonsors and ads everywhere (of course Peach and Wendy are part of a "Women in Racing" society) and the creativity of the stages this time around. The N64 Yoshi stage was retroactively made into a wild Yoshi sanctuary? Of course, that explains why it exists. Now we also know where Thwomps come from, and get to see the main airport in the Mushroom Kingdom.

 

[Red Devil]

I think this is something Partners in Time did right too, otherwise being the least good entry of the Mario & Luigi series.

 

[ScOULaris]

Honestly, Mario Kart 8 has been this for me recently. I think it's mainly because of the sonsors and ads everywhere (of course Peach and Wendy are part of a "Women in Racing" society) and the creativity of the stages this time around. The N64 Yoshi stage was retroactively made into a wild Yoshi sanctuary? Of course, that explains why it exists. Now we also know where Thwomps come from, and get to see the main airport in the Mushroom Kingdom.

I absolutely love the ads for fictional Mushroom Kingdom businesses in MK8. Some of my favorite details in a game that is chock-full of them.

 

[Tookay]

The whole "TTYD was like fan-fiction" complaint is something that's come out of nowhere. For ten years, I never heard this complaint, but ever since Miyamoto excised the stories and original NPCs from Paper Mario games, it seems to have become a common defense for the lack of world-building/storytelling in recent Paper Mario games.

 

[Vital Tundra]

Paper Mario 1 and 2 have the best characters so that. Everything felt so new and comprehensive.

I'm fine with the franchise becoming an adventure game, but I can never forgive the lack of original characters.

 

[leroidys]

The whole "TTYD was like fan-fiction" complaint is something that's come out of nowhere. For ten years, I never heard this complaint, but ever since Miyamoto excised the stories and original NPCs from Paper Mario games, it seems to have become a common defense for the lack of world-building/storytelling in recent Paper Mario games.

I think that's a pretty baseless assertion. I've been hearing this complaint at least since Super Paper Mario came out. Wasn't on any Nintendo oriented message boards before then so I can't comment much beyond that.

FWIW TTYD is still my favorite game in the sub-series, and of all the Mario RPG series. That doesn't mean that I don't think its tone, humor, and characters are totally at odds with the universe established in prior games.

 

[udivision]

Paper Mario 1 and 2 have the best characters so that. Everything felt so new and comprehensive.

I'm fine with the franchise becoming an adventure game, but I can never forgive the lack of original characters.

As long as their decisions don't hurt sales, I'm sure they don't really care what people think.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

I only played two of the games so I don't have much to say.

 

[i-Jest]

No Marios Sky

For real though, Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario were a good start.