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[Lime]

Monique Judge writes for the Root on the usual "you're the real racist for talking about racism" and how this can lead to violence and pushback to the point of self-harm:

These two incidents and the many others I witness on Twitter every single day lead me to conclude that the reason conversations about race with white people fail is that white fragility leads to white violence, and not even other white people are immune to it.

”What is important to remember about white fragility and white discomfort is that when white people are scared, people die," Ciccariello-Maher said. He cited the example of Jordan Davis, who dared to sit in a car with music loudly playing as a white man was present.

The oft-uttered ”Not all white people" is a form of white violence. It is a silencing move that, as Ciccariello-Maher says, displaces the conversation. It says, ”Yeah, you've had that experience, but since all white people don't do that, it doesn't count."

When a black person offers a polite critique of something a white person has done, and said white person calls the critique an ”attack" or says the black person is being ”racist," that, too, is a form of white violence, used to deflect and derail. The person it is used against will often have to abandon his or her first point in order to defend him- or herself against the accusations of attacking and racism. As Ciccariello-Maher asked, ”Why are you so invested in whiteness that when you see something said about white people, you take that personally?"

On Wednesday a police officer in Smyrna, Ga., reportedly purchased doughnuts at a local Krispy Kreme location, and when he received his order, one of the boxes had ”Black Lives Matter" written on it in black Sharpie. The officer reported the incident, the Smyrna Police Department called it ”egregious," and now law enforcement and the Krispy Kreme corporation are ”investigating" the incident.

Pro-police blog Blue Lives Matter posted about the box and condemned both the action and the Black Lives Matter movement, saying, ”For those who are not aware, this is extremely disrespectful to law enforcement."

While writing the message on the box may not have been the best decision Krispy Kreme's employee made that day, why is that particular critique considered an attack on law enforcement and, ultimately, whiteness?

”It's only considered that in the context where people consider black rights and black equality as an attack on whiteness," Ciccariello-Maher said to me.

”It's because [white people] think they are victims in a country where they have never been victims," he said. ”I think there's a deep-seated guilt in white America. The resentful insistence that white people in contemporary America have nothing to feel guilty about. Contemporary structures of white supremacy remain from which people draw a series of benefits. White people deny these things, and yet know that they are true."

http://www.theroot.com/white-fragility-leads-to-white-violence-why-conversati-1791233086

This is something that is more and more evident with the way that discussions about sensitive issues related to race (and gender and sexuality and other identity politics topics) are received by the dominant group (white men) where they feel attacked and persecuted just for talking about oppression. It is perhaps nothing new and even expected that if someone speaks about how they are oppressed or feel uncomfortable, they are met with hostility and fear and anger by the dominant group in question - i.e. something caused by white fragility. This is not only just right-winged racist people. Many well-meaning white moderates and so-called leftists are so bothered by merely the conversation about race that they in turn reprimand/punish the person who speaks up about it.

In turn, this fragility leads to actions by dominant groups to punish minorities, even if this hurts members of the dominant group in the process. You saw in the aftermath of Trump winning the election where a lot of people were like "that's what you get for calling people racist/sexist/homophonic/etc.". I.e. that by addressing society's implicit oppression of marginalized groups and how this is manifested in voting for fascists like Trump that effectively punishes anyone who isn't part of the top group in society.

This is also what Van Jones called 'whitelash', which referred to how rectifying racial injustices potentially leads to a backlash by the dominant white group, thereby following the moniker "when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."

And we saw this with Brexit where the hostility towards immigration lead to a country willing to tank their own economy and empower a party that finds EU Human Rights bothersome and willingly vote for a policy that an obvious racist party (UKIP) endorses.

And we saw this as well with the Vox ACA video where someone who was saved from breast cancer thanks to Obamacare voted for someone who's explicit promise was to repeal the ACA and empower a party that is willing to let millions of people die.

Anyway, I guess my point is just so crazy the lengths that white people or dominant groups are willing to go to even to the point of self-harm, just to remain in a position where they can dominate other groups or rebuild a "safe white space" where their position can remain unquestioned and implicit. Just the mere fact of talking about it makes people dig in their heels and even go to great lengths to justify why they simply had to vote for a racist politician and condemn the entire world, because the conversation and pushback made them feel uncomfortable.

 

[The Last Wizard]

The whole not understanding "Black Lives Matter" is so fucking childish, just admit how you really feel cause you ain't fooling anyone.

 

[Schattenjäger]

Self harm?

The GOP still has not released their healthcare plan ..

Brexit? We still don't know the consequences and impact long term

 

[QuantumSquid]

As a white person, I want to do my part to improve race relations in this country but I have no idea how.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Self harm?

The GOP still has not released their healthcare plan ..

Brexit? We still don't know the consequences and impact long term

Because they don't have one. We've talked about this before.

 

[PixelatedBookake]

On Wednesday a police officer in Smyrna, Ga., reportedly purchased doughnuts at a local Krispy Kreme location, and when he received his order, one of the boxes had ”Black Lives Matter" written on it in black Sharpie. The officer reported the incident, the Smyrna Police Department called it ”egregious," and now law enforcement and the Krispy Kreme corporation are ”investigating" the incident.

Cool, that's the Krispy Kreme I ate donuts at when I got fired from my first job. Good to know they think Black Lives Matter.

 

[Dai101]

Self harm?

The GOP still has not released their healthcare plan ..

Brexit? We still don't know the consequences and impact long term

Third Reich? We would never know if it could work!

 

[The Last Wizard]

As a white person, I want to do my part to improve race relations in this country but I have no idea how.

There will hopefully be others to put it more eloquently than I in this thread but here goes, call out racism when you see it and other bullshit.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Self harm?

The GOP still has not released their healthcare plan ..

Brexit? We still don't know the consequences and impact long term

That's cool, it's not like we had Reagan as president to show the impact of arch-conservative economic and domestic policy on poverty across the racial spectrum.

 

[capitalCORN]

The fact is that cis-white people don't understand how dominant their privilege is, even for the best of them.

 

[thetrin]

Man, that article is pretty fucking on point.

”It's because [white people] think they are victims in a country where they have never been victims," he said. ”I think there's a deep-seated guilt in white America. The resentful insistence that white people in contemporary America have nothing to feel guilty about. Contemporary structures of white supremacy remain from which people draw a series of benefits. White people deny these things, and yet know that they are true."

Fucking THIS x1000.

 

[hokahey]

As a white person, I want to do my part to improve race relations in this country but I have no idea how.

1. Run for office

2. Always be a voice for what is right

3. Raise your children properly

 

[excelsiorlef]

As a white person, I want to do my part to improve race relations in this country but I have no idea how.

Vote, listen, support, call out racism when you see it, stand up to fellow white folk when they start talking down BLM or start playing both sides or downplaying police brutality ... in short be an ally.

 

[Slayven]

Kaeprnick is the perfect example. Most passive form of protest and suddenly it is an attack on the military and veterans, still can't figure how

 

[Schattenjäger]

Third Reich? We would never know if it could work!

Your hyperbole is more detrimental than you realize

 

[Opto]

Kaeprnick is the perfect example. Most passive form of protest and suddenly it is an attack on the military and veterans, still can't figure how

and then he was blamed for falling NFL viewership.

 

[A.J.]

The fact is that cis-white people don't understand how dominant their privilege is, even for the best of them.

I think part of the problem is that some white people don't feel privileged (i.e. have had their own hardships) and have a hard time understanding that they are privileged. Saying that they are privileged makes them feel disconnected because that's not their outlook on life. It's a hard problem to solve.

 

[Slayven]

and then he was blamed for falling NFL viewership.

and being a "disruption" in the locker room. Yet his teammates gave him an award

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Your hyperbole is more detrimental than you realize

Less than your ignorance

 

[AntraxSuicide]

As a white person, I want to do my part to improve race relations in this country but I have no idea how.

It's all about shame. These ideas and people (largely) cannot be changed. That's fantasy. The goal is for our racists to grow old and die without ever having spread their shit. My dad got the talk that if he ever says a single racist thing to my future children, he'll never see them or me again. They'll go their entire lives without knowing how he feels about black people (and it's not that they're equal human beings, let me tell you). I won't tell them either.

If enough people do it, the racist population in 50 years decreases. It's only when people teach their kids this shit that it keeps going.

 

[thetrin]

Kaeprnick is the perfect example. Most passive form of protest and suddenly it is an attack on the military and veterans, still can't figure how

Because when soldiers die, their ghosts get sucked into the American flag. That's how they maintain the color.

 

[Lime]

Self harm?

The GOP still has not released their healthcare plan ..

Brexit? We still don't know the consequences and impact long term

GOP obviously won't be anything remotely humane if you don't have money. If you expect anything more than that, you haven't been paying attention the last, I don't know, 30 years.

Brexit has already resulted in a historical decrease in the pound, increase in hate crimes, apparent lies by bigoted politicians, entire laws have to be re-written and re-implemented, and the regions that depend on the EU like Wales are set to lose two hundred thousands of jobs due to lack of EU funding.

Kaeprnick is the perfect example. Most passive form of protest and suddenly it is an attack on the military and veterans, still can't figure how

The perfect example of white fragility

 

[D i Z]

Your hyperbole is more detrimental than you realize

Not as much as the manifestos that exist.

 

[remist]

It seems bizarre to label fallacious or ignorant statements like "not all whites" as violence on the same level as actual physical harm or words that are directly malicious as apposed to just ignorant. At the end of the day it is just semantics, but it's going to cause people to misunderstand an argument they may otherwise agree with.

 

[D i Z]

It seems bizarre to label fallacious or ignorant statements like "not all whites" as violence on the same level as actual physical harm or words that are directly malicious as apposed to just ignorant. At the end of the day it is just semantics, but it's going to cause people to misunderstand an argument they may otherwise agree with.

If you're going to trip yourself up deliberately over the term as if you don't understand it, no one will take anything you have to say seriously. Different levels for different folks. Some of this needs to be graduated up to for some I guess.

 

[aadiboy]

There's been a lot of talk about why things are they way they are, but there's never enough talk about how to change them.

 

[Professor Beef]

Because when soldiers die, their ghosts get sucked into the American flag. That's how they maintain the color.

No wonder the new Ghostbusters movie failed. Since they're women, they'll want to clean. And what better thing to clean than the US flag?

I'VE CRACKED THE CODE

 

[EatinOlives]

The amount of mental gymnastics that some people jump through to paint BLM as a terrorist/violence movement is appalling.

It's in the fucking name. BLACK. LIVES. MATTER. And you still can't utter the words without some dumbasses going insane.

 

[Lime]

It's all about shame. These ideas and people (largely) cannot be changed. That's fantasy. The goal is for our racists to grow old and die without ever having spread their shit. My dad got the talk that if he ever says a single racist thing to my future children, he'll never see them or me again. They'll go their entire lives without knowing how he feels about black people (and it's not that they're equal human beings, let me tell you). I won't tell them either.

If enough people do it, the racist population in 50 years decreases. It's only when people teach their kids this shit that it keeps going.

Yet I see plenty of young white dudes subscribing to neo-nazi, MRA, alt-right, gamergate bullshit, and that's not speaking of the so-called white liberal moderates who just wants to shut the "conversation" down. They'll spread their shit for the next many decades and there's probably many more future white racist dudes waiting in the wings.

 

[Slayven]

The amount of mental gymnastics that some people jump through to paint BLM as a terrorist/violence movement is appalling.

It's in the fucking name. BLACK. LIVES. MATTER. And you still can't utter the words without some dumbasses going insane.

Smart enough to figure Blue Lies Matter, Police Lives Matter, All Lives Matter, and all the others to shut down conversations

 

[Nelo Ice]

Yep reminds me of white people I normally respect being outraged when I dared to call them out or said something that took them out of their safe zone. And somewhat related but I've seen people of color thinking they have white privilege. I'm going to guess for them it's due to being surrounded by white people in the military. Cuz it boggles my mind how ignorant they've become or maybe I just never noticed it before the joined the military.

 

[Lime]

There's been a lot of talk about why things are they way they are, but there's never enough talk about how to change them.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1315797

 

[Crossing Eden]

Fuck me I needed this article today. Goddamn. Straight up catharsis.

 

[How About No]

White ppl continue to embarrass me

Not that even I'm a perfect specimen of love and tolerance myself but I can hope to get better.

Vote, listen, support, call out racism when you see it, stand up to fellow white folk when they start talking down BLM or start playing both sides or downplaying police brutality ... in short be an ally.

Good advice

 

[Got]

Self harm?

The GOP still has not released their healthcare plan ..

Brexit? We still don't know the consequences and impact long term

speaking of the content in the OP...

 

[remist]

If you're going to trip yourself up deliberately over the term as if you don't understand it, no one will take anything you have to say seriously. Different levels for different folks. Some of this needs to be graduated up to for some I guess.

That's fine if this is just targeted at the already initiated, but the layman who actually needs convincing is going to get hung up on these academic definitions of words that don't line up with the common colloquial meaning.

 

[tuxfool]

In as much as I agree with the premise I don't think it applies to brexit. In that case it is a much more generalized form of xenophobia applied to all immigrants, where hatred is principally focused on the Poles. Even the most deluded brexiter would recognize them as being white (Poland actually has its own issues with racism).

 

[The_Kid]

Geez that Decoded video has like, 90% dislikes on it.

And some people say white fragility doesn't exist.

 

[Lime]

This video by Franchesca Ramsey for MTV's Decoded talks about the issue in a nice, humorous, and diplomatic manner, yet the video has freaking 19k dislikes to only 2k likes. Even though the shit is laid out in such a hospitable manner and tries to explain it piece by piece in layman terms, people (most likely white people) are so offended and scared that they dislike being addressed specifically and refuse to get educated about an issue that affects us all.

Like with the breast cancer lady from the Vox video, how can anyone ever hope to reach and educate these people when they even refuse the best olive branches out there?

 

[D i Z]

That's fine if this is just targeted at the already initiated, but the layman who actually needs convincing is going to get hung up on these academic definitions of words that don't line up with the common colloquial meaning.

If these terms turn them off to the point that they turtle up, they weren't ready for what comes next. The door however, doesn't shut. When they want to learn more, or at least come to understand why the terms are being used and the impact of the actions before them, they can pick up where they left off. Or somewhere else. Acceptance however, is another reactionary hurdle. Can't do much about that with anyone on that level.

 

[KurtSloane]

I think part of the problem is that some white people don't feel privileged (i.e. have had their own hardships) and have a hard time understanding that they are privileged. Saying that they are privileged makes them feel disconnected because that's not their outlook on life. It's a hard problem to solve.

Yep, alot of people in the rust belt are dealing with a huge heroin issue, poverty, jobs education.

Minorities have it statistically worse of course, but to someone dealing with the above issues it wont matter, they are looking at what is on (or not on their own plate.

Its a fair point you make.

 

[zeemumu]

The amount of mental gymnastics that some people jump through to paint BLM as a terrorist/violence movement is appalling.

It's in the fucking name. BLACK. LIVES. MATTER. And you still can't utter the words without some dumbasses going insane.

People really don't want to have that conversation so they try to shut it down immediately by redirecting it.

 

[Slayven]

Yep, alot of people in the rust belt are dealing with a huge heroin issue, poverty, jobs education.

Minorities have it statistically worse of course, but to someone dealing with the above issues it wont matter, they are looking at what is on (or not on their own plate.

Its a fair point you make.

They convinced themselves that it's always the others fault. Instead of being sold out by the GOP they keep flocking too.

 

[Usobuko]

Economic anxiety don't just hit one group of people you know?

What makes them think that the minorities aren't having it worst due to grim ramification of their social positions ? And that the economic problems are't byproduct of their own kind who is in charge of nearly everything?

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Yet I see plenty of young white dudes subscribing to neo-nazi, MRA, alt-right, gamergate bullshit, and that's not speaking of the so-called white liberal moderates who just wants to shut the "conversation" down. They'll spread their shit for the next many decades and there's probably many more future white racist dudes waiting in the wings.

I said their population decreases, not disappears. And all of those young white dudes (or I'd argue at least 90% or more) are getting this shit at home from someone. An uncle, a grandparent, parents themselves, etc... You don't just wake up one day and decide "I'm gonna call somebody a nigger today!" That's taught, and people need to start shaming this shit.

I remember in rural MS when a kid at school said nigger one time and a few adults just laughed like he'd said "fuck" or something, and then told him that wasn't okay to say. That's not how you handle it. That fucking kid heard some awful shit from his family, and no one was going to say anything to them.

In a just world (and certainly for allies), people need to get the idea across that these racist beliefs are going to be ostracized. Not shrugged off.

 

[remist]

This video by Franchesca Ramsey for MTV's Decoded talks about the issue in a nice, humorous, and diplomatic manner, yet the video has freaking 19k dislikes to only 2k likes. Even though the shit is laid out in such a hospitable manner and tries to explain it piece by piece in layman terms, people (most likely white people) are so offended and scared that they dislike being addressed specifically and refuse to get educated about an issue that affects us all.

Like with the breast cancer lady from the Vox video, how can anyone ever hope to reach and educate these people when they even refuse the best olive branches out there?

It's obviously a hard thing to internalize for a lot white people but that doesn't mean her down to earth style isn't reaching people who might have been turned off by a more confrontational or academic discussion.

 

[And_Gignac]

The problem is not white people, is whiteness.
The problem is not straight people, is heterocentrism
The problem is not cisgenders, is transphobia.
The problem is not males, is the patriarchy.

I think the discussion gets broken when we personalize social conventions that most people were throw into without their approval.

 

[Black Republican]

This video by Franchesca Ramsey for MTV's Decoded talks about the issue in a nice, humorous, and diplomatic manner, yet the video has freaking 19k dislikes to only 2k likes. Even though the shit is laid out in such a hospitable manner and tries to explain it piece by piece in layman terms, people (most likely white people) are so offended and scared that they dislike being addressed specifically and refuse to get educated about an issue that affects us all.

Like with the breast cancer lady from the Vox video, how can anyone ever hope to reach and educate these people when they even refuse the best olive branches out there?

poor Fran

 

[D i Z]

Yep, alot of people in the rust belt are dealing with a huge heroin issue, poverty, jobs education.

Minorities have it statistically worse of course, but to someone dealing with the above issues it wont matter, they are looking at what is on (or not on their own plate.

Its a fair point you make.

Except you could remove all of the anxiety around all of those issues (ie, Heroine wasn't so much of an issue say, two decades ago in the rust belt) and the fragility about the topic and how to communicate it did then, and even now persists. There isn't a time in American history where we can point and say, at least then people were open to it.

 

[watershed]

Great article and much truth in it.

But one thing that worries me lately, and this is coming from my experience in college academia both learning about and teaching critical race theory is that our ability to speak complexly on race issues has become too dependent on terms that are esoteric and require their own study to grasp. Concepts and truths like privilege, white privilege, white fragility, white guilt, violence, safety, oppression, equity, etc are not only difficult to understand but simultaneously require a genuine commitment by all parties to negotiate the very difficult emotional journey that goes along with them.

I don't know how this kind of education can take place at the everyday level, in casual conversation, or even in K-12 education. It seems like a college education or very formal educational trappings are needed to really educate people about race, but that immediately narrows who is even reachable.